Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

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badbreath
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by badbreath » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:38 am

Yes. I have over 200 shares of the company that I work for in a DRIP fund. Seemed like a good idea 20 years ago but really it has gone from $30 to $170 and only is 3% of the portfolio so not a big deal.
“While money can’t buy happiness, it certainly lets you choose your own form of misery.” Groucho Marx

Caduceus
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by Caduceus » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:11 am

No. That would be quite irrational. If you wouldn't repurchase the position at the current price, how much you've lost on it over the years is entirely irrelevant.

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CABob
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by CABob » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:30 am

Caduceus wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:11 am
No. That would be quite irrational. If you wouldn't repurchase the position at the current price, how much you've lost on it over the years is entirely irrelevant.
I've heard and used this statement myself, but is it also correct compare it to "If you were currently offered this stock at no cost, would you accept it? You can have this stock in your portfolio at no additional cost at this time.
Bob

Caduceus
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by Caduceus » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:11 pm

CABob wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:30 am
Caduceus wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:11 am
No. That would be quite irrational. If you wouldn't repurchase the position at the current price, how much you've lost on it over the years is entirely irrelevant.
I've heard and used this statement myself, but is it also correct compare it to "If you were currently offered this stock at no cost, would you accept it? You can have this stock in your portfolio at no additional cost at this time.
Yes, for two reasons. First, if a stock trades literally at a price of 0, it's going to be delisted. Second, you have to claim the loss for a worthless security in the year that it becomes worthless. Trading at 0 is by definition worthless.

On the other hand, if the stock is trading at a few pennies, and you would prefer to recognize the loss in another year for tax reasons that would make sense to keep the stock.

itstoomuch
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by itstoomuch » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:24 pm

I did. But got tired at looking at the numbers.
I bought into the same thing twice :oops: and lost twice badly. :oops:
Decided never buy APPL again. :oops:

Did the same for TSLA. :oops:
Numb. :confused

But the main number is up 18% fiscal 2107 while holding considerable cash. Discretionary primary Acct. :moneybag
Ymmv
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Elsebet
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by Elsebet » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:28 pm

I have two stocks left from my stock-picking days which are now almost a decade ago. It's not that I'm keeping them as a reminder to my bad decisions it's just that they are way down from when I purchased them and I'm curious to see if they ever go anywhere again. For those interested, the tickers are WPRT and ONCY. They are such a minuscule part of my portfolio and I should just get rid of them but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

WhiteMaxima
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by WhiteMaxima » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:50 pm

Boglehead never bet on single stock. They buy index fund.

Caduceus
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by Caduceus » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:26 am

Elsebet wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:28 pm
I have two stocks left from my stock-picking days which are now almost a decade ago. It's not that I'm keeping them as a reminder to my bad decisions it's just that they are way down from when I purchased them and I'm curious to see if they ever go anywhere again. For those interested, the tickers are WPRT and ONCY. They are such a minuscule part of my portfolio and I should just get rid of them but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Hmm, but every year you wait you are losing more money even if WPRT and ONCY prices remain exactly the same. That is because you are deferring recognition of a tax loss that you can claim immediately, which results in real savings that can be re-invested and compounded right now.

How much you save depends on your specific situation, but unless you are in the 15% bracket or have massive tax loss carryforwards, you will save something, and that something, invested, will earn you money.

Valuethinker
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:04 am

Nortel.

It was 25% of Canadian stock market, and then dropped from $125 ish to $25. So I shrewdly "caught the falling knife".

Broker did a "give commission to charity day" so I sold it for $0.01.

It was in a tax protected account so could not use the capital loss.

Say $6k down the drain - a useful lesson.

My former employer was taken over so I had to sell for about 10% of peak price. On paper I was rich... once.

:? :oops:

Caduceus
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by Caduceus » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:40 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:04 am
Nortel.

It was 25% of Canadian stock market, and then dropped from $125 ish to $25. So I shrewdly "caught the falling knife".

Broker did a "give commission to charity day" so I sold it for $0.01.

It was in a tax protected account so could not use the capital loss.

Say $6k down the drain - a useful lesson.

My former employer was taken over so I had to sell for about 10% of peak price. On paper I was rich... once.

:? :oops:
I never knew you were Canadian, or worked for a Canadian company. Do you know offhand how Canada treats foreign investors of Canadian-domiciled stock? From reading the tax treaty, it seems that U.S. investors do not pay capital gains taxes to Canada, and dividends are levied at the reduced rate of 15%, unless Canadian securities are held in a U.S. IRA or 401k, in which case the actual tax withheld and tax levied is reduced to 0% via treaty rate.

I hate reading tax treaties, so if Valuethinker or anyone else knows the answer, it would be great. :D

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dratkinson
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by dratkinson » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:36 am

No. At least, not any more. But I still have my Excel detail sheets devoted to tracking each so my "by tax year" accounting will work.

Example. My MET (demutualization) shares detail sheet got renamed to "x Met" after I sold all to simplify my investments.


By looking through my Excel workbook, all of the "x <investment>" sheets remind me I was wrong, should have gone simpler from the beginning, and to not repeat the mistake of thinking I know more than the total market.

So though I no longer have the investments, I do have the constant reminders of my bad decisions.
Last edited by dratkinson on Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
d.r.a, not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.

runner3081
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by runner3081 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:20 pm

Some penny Marijuana stocks. No point of selling them.

Prior to BH days.

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Portfolio7
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by Portfolio7 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:05 pm

When I first moved to snow country I ended up putting my car in a ditch because I was impatient and didn't wait for my windshield to fully defrost, and with low visibility simply realized I had left the pavement too late. No harm done as I was moving very slowly, but my license plate holder got a little mangled. I kept that mangled license plate for years as a reminder to not do stupid things in bad weather (especially since I didn't grow up with snow & freezing temps). I get the idea behind keeping past mistakes front and center. 8-)

However, I like to keep my portfolio whistle clean. Prior experiments that I either didn't understand well enough or that simply didn't work out as expected or that I simply decided I don't need (i.e. commodities, convertible stock, junk bonds etc, etc) have all been culled and replaced.
An investment in knowledge pays the best interest.

beardsworth
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by beardsworth » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:31 pm

Years ago, backing the car out of our angled driveway, I hit a neighbor's parked construction supply trailer. It was a small, flat trailer, and so low that I never did see it out of my rear window. And this was before cars had rear-view cameras.

But that trailer's hitch made a jagged 2" puncture in my car's (plastic) bumper.

I took it to my mechanic, an honest and friendly man, although one given to wry humor and few words. I asked if there was anything that could be done to fix this, other than a whole new bumper.

"Well, you could put a bumper sticker over the hole," he said.

I replied that we never put any kind of advertising or other messages on our car.

"Well, then," he said, with a smile, "unless you want to buy a new bumper, I guess you'll just have to live with that hole as a reminder of your own stupidity."

I lived with that hole in the bumper for the rest of the time we owned that car.

But that does not mean I'd want to intentionally keep a sour investment to "remind me of my own stupidity." The car, unlike a sour investment, was still getting me where I needed to go. :)

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:06 pm

My mistakes were converted into multi-year tax write-offs. Doing my taxes every year for several years was reminder enough such that I stopped dabbling in individual stocks.

evofxdwg
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by evofxdwg » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:16 pm

FAIRX (Fairholme fund). Bought based on history. Did ok for a few years then ewwwww! At least I’m not reinvesting and he declared a huge cap gain last year.
I keep waiting for Fannie Mae or Sears to rebound so I can sell the remaining. :oops:

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:44 am

About $25k worth of physical bullion. Purchased 5 years ago, lost about 25%.

Valuethinker
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by Valuethinker » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:42 am

Caduceus wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:40 am
Valuethinker wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:04 am
Nortel.

It was 25% of Canadian stock market, and then dropped from $125 ish to $25. So I shrewdly "caught the falling knife".

Broker did a "give commission to charity day" so I sold it for $0.01.

It was in a tax protected account so could not use the capital loss.

Say $6k down the drain - a useful lesson.

My former employer was taken over so I had to sell for about 10% of peak price. On paper I was rich... once.

:? :oops:
I never knew you were Canadian, or worked for a Canadian company. Do you know offhand how Canada treats foreign investors of Canadian-domiciled stock? From reading the tax treaty, it seems that U.S. investors do not pay capital gains taxes to Canada, and dividends are levied at the reduced rate of 15%, unless Canadian securities are held in a U.S. IRA or 401k, in which case the actual tax withheld and tax levied is reduced to 0% via treaty rate.

I hate reading tax treaties, so if Valuethinker or anyone else knows the answer, it would be great. :D
I know about the 15% withholding tax to non residents.

Can't speak to US taxpayer position.

I don't see how the CCRA could levy capital gains taxes, so I presume you just pay the US tax.

The Financial Wisdom Forum is a Canadian twin to this one (shares many posters) and is full of helpful people.

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Elsebet
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by Elsebet » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:16 pm

Caduceus wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:26 am
Elsebet wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:28 pm
I have two stocks left from my stock-picking days which are now almost a decade ago. It's not that I'm keeping them as a reminder to my bad decisions it's just that they are way down from when I purchased them and I'm curious to see if they ever go anywhere again. For those interested, the tickers are WPRT and ONCY. They are such a minuscule part of my portfolio and I should just get rid of them but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Hmm, but every year you wait you are losing more money even if WPRT and ONCY prices remain exactly the same. That is because you are deferring recognition of a tax loss that you can claim immediately, which results in real savings that can be re-invested and compounded right now.

How much you save depends on your specific situation, but unless you are in the 15% bracket or have massive tax loss carryforwards, you will save something, and that something, invested, will earn you money.
These are in a Roth IRA/Rollover IRA so to my knowledge there wouldn't be any tax loss I could claim, or am I misunderstanding?

Caduceus
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Re: Do you keep anything in your portfolio as a monument to your bad decisions?

Post by Caduceus » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:59 am

Elsebet wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:16 pm
Caduceus wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:26 am
Elsebet wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:28 pm
I have two stocks left from my stock-picking days which are now almost a decade ago. It's not that I'm keeping them as a reminder to my bad decisions it's just that they are way down from when I purchased them and I'm curious to see if they ever go anywhere again. For those interested, the tickers are WPRT and ONCY. They are such a minuscule part of my portfolio and I should just get rid of them but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Hmm, but every year you wait you are losing more money even if WPRT and ONCY prices remain exactly the same. That is because you are deferring recognition of a tax loss that you can claim immediately, which results in real savings that can be re-invested and compounded right now.

How much you save depends on your specific situation, but unless you are in the 15% bracket or have massive tax loss carryforwards, you will save something, and that something, invested, will earn you money.
These are in a Roth IRA/Rollover IRA so to my knowledge there wouldn't be any tax loss I could claim, or am I misunderstanding?
No you are right, although then the analysis would be whether keeping the money in WPRT and ONCY makes more sense than re-investing the money in an index fund. This is a form of loss-aversion bias.

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