Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
Post Reply
Topic Author
eddyd
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:47 am

Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by eddyd »

We all know the standard line that Vanguard is owned by its investors. I have come to realize that this isn't who I thought it was (lots of small investors like me, plus some big companies, pension funds etc.)
Vanguard recently disclosed ownership details of their funds - if you look at Part V of this document* http://bit.ly/2A9jV6h, you will see exactly who owns huge percentages of Vanguard funds, viz. Vanguard's major competitors:
Charles Schwab & Co
National Financial Services LLC (a subsidiary of Fidelity)

I am frankly shocked and disappointed. These guys can't compete with Vanguard so they buy Vanguard's funds and no doubt repackage them and sell them on to their unsuspecting clients at a nice profit. That's bad enough. But worse, this gives them potentially a huge influence over how Vanguard operates, including nominating directors etc.

Surely this is a conflict of interest? At best I think this is a big threat to Vanguard's independence in the mutual fund world. Am I wrong?

*I was asked by the forum moderators to avoid making explicit reference to this specific document, so I used a URL shortener
Last edited by eddyd on Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 95696
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by LadyGeek »

Welcome! Thanks for correcting the post. Our point is that discussions of the proxy vote (what the link goes to) is off-topic - see this post: Re: Vanguard Trustee Elections. Information on fund ownership is difficult to find otherwise.

============
Please focus on answering the OP's question.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
User avatar
k66
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:36 pm

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by k66 »

Welcome to the forum eddyd!

(To other readers and for reference, Part V starts on p.60 of the linked document in the OP).

Could it be that Schwab et al are the custodians of X% of the listed funds that have been individually acquired by their customers? I don't know--I'm just asking the question.
LOSER of the Boglehead Contest 2015 | lang may yer lum reek
User avatar
in_reality
Posts: 4529
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by in_reality »

eddyd wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:42 am
I am frankly shocked and disappointed. These guys can't compete with Vanguard so they buy Vanguard's funds and no doubt repackage them and sell them on to their unsuspecting clients at a nice profit. That's bad enough. But worse, this gives them potentially a huge influence over how Vanguard operates, including nominating directors etc.
I am shocked and disappointed too. Vanguard Group Inc is the second largest holder of SCHW (Charles Schwab Corporation Common Stock). Wow, that gives them potentially a huge influence over how Schwab operates. If Schwab loses my assets the way Vanguard did and I see my holdings as part of someone else's estate (presumably where they were transferred to and now my account is part of in order to get the funds back) I will again be extremely anxious about my life savings. I hope Vanguard won't be pushing them in that direction!

http://investors.morningstar.com/owners ... ountry=USA
(see equity ownership - institutions tab)
User avatar
JamesSFO
Posts: 3404
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:16 pm

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by JamesSFO »

This may reflect 401K plans. Example, Fidelity run 401Ks with Vanguard shares. My point being it isn't clear to me that Fidelity and Schwab are the true beneficial owners.
saver007
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:18 pm

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by saver007 »

shareholding is reported in street names. It just means high percentage of vanguard funds are owned by Charls schawb and Fidelity clients not by these firms themselves.
User avatar
Kenkat
Posts: 9549
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by Kenkat »

saver007 wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:47 am shareholding is reported in street names. It just means high percentage of vanguard funds are owned by Charls schawb and Fidelity clients not by these firms themselves.
This is correct. Fidelity or Schwab holds the interest in Vanguard for the benefit of their clients; the client sends money to Fidelity or Schwab, Fidelity or Schwab then uses that money to buy Vanguard funds as an institutional investor.
User avatar
BTDT
Posts: 783
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:40 am
Location: Grand Lake OK

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by BTDT »

eddyd wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:42 am
I am frankly shocked and disappointed. These guys can't compete with Vanguard so they buy Vanguard's funds and no doubt repackage them and sell them on to their unsuspecting clients at a nice profit. That's bad enough. But worse, this gives them potentially a huge influence over how Vanguard operates, including nominating directors etc.
So if my employer chooses Charles Schwab to manage our 401K's, I should not be allowed to have Vanguard funds in my 401k portfolio? :oops:
If past history was all that is needed to play the game of money, the richest people would be librarians.
User avatar
alpine_boglehead
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:51 am
Location: Austria

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by alpine_boglehead »

Kenkat wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:53 am
saver007 wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:47 am shareholding is reported in street names. It just means high percentage of vanguard funds are owned by Charls schawb and Fidelity clients not by these firms themselves.
This is correct. Fidelity or Schwab holds the interest in Vanguard for the benefit of their clients; the client sends money to Fidelity or Schwab, Fidelity or Schwab then uses that money to buy Vanguard funds as an institutional investor.
Wikipedia states Schwab to have 2.8 trillion in assets under management, and Vanguard now 4.4 trillion. So a good portion of Schwab's 2.8 will actual be at Vanguard, right? (essentially meaning that Vanguard is much bigger in comparison than what the AUM numbers would indicate)
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 95696
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by LadyGeek »

The OP is asking about funds held by an investment management company - which are always held by a 3rd party custodian. See the wiki: Vanguard safety "Custody"

in_reality has an interesting point, which is equity ownership. Stockholders are true owners.
in_reality wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:28 am
eddyd wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:42 am
I am frankly shocked and disappointed. These guys can't compete with Vanguard so they buy Vanguard's funds and no doubt repackage them and sell them on to their unsuspecting clients at a nice profit. That's bad enough. But worse, this gives them potentially a huge influence over how Vanguard operates, including nominating directors etc.
I am shocked and disappointed too. Vanguard Group Inc is the second largest holder of SCHW (Charles Schwab Corporation Common Stock). Wow, that gives them potentially a huge influence over how Schwab operates. If Schwab loses my assets the way Vanguard did and I see my holdings as part of someone else's estate (presumably where they were transferred to and now my account is part of in order to get the funds back) I will again be extremely anxious about my life savings. I hope Vanguard won't be pushing them in that direction!

http://investors.morningstar.com/owners ... ountry=USA
(see equity ownership - institutions tab)
How are you interpreting those results? There are 2 entries - by "total % shares" and by "total % assets". For voting, I would guess that it goes by % shares. By total ownership, Dodge & Cox is the major holder.

In comparison, take a look at BlackRock: BLK BlackRock, Equity Ownership --> Institutions.

Going by stock ownership: PNC Bank has a 21.22 % stake, but Vanguard Group Inc has only 5.21%.
Going by assets: PNC Bank has 16.12%, but Vanguard Group Inc is down in the noise at 0.18%.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Topic Author
eddyd
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:47 am

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by eddyd »

Kenkat wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:53 am ... Fidelity or Schwab holds the interest in Vanguard for the benefit of their clients; the client sends money to Fidelity or Schwab, Fidelity or Schwab then uses that money to buy Vanguard funds as an institutional investor.
OK, I understand that Schwab and Fidelity may not own huge parts of Vanguard on their own account. But they still are formally the owners of the shares. Do they allow their clients to vote Vanguard proxies? Or do they decide how to vote based on their own interests? My main concern is whether there is a conflict of interest here that threatens Vanguard's independence. As @in_reality pointed out, there is interlocking ownership, so where are the checks and balances?
columbia
Posts: 3023
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:30 am

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by columbia »

JamesSFO wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:40 am This may reflect 401K plans. Example, Fidelity run 401Ks with Vanguard shares. My point being it isn't clear to me that Fidelity and Schwab are the true beneficial owners.
Could also apply to TIAA?
User avatar
in_reality
Posts: 4529
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by in_reality »

LadyGeek wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:13 am The OP is asking about funds held by an investment management company - which are always held by a 3rd party custodian. See the wiki: Vanguard safety "Custody"

in_reality has an interesting point, which is equity ownership. Stockholders are true owners.
in_reality wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:28 am
eddyd wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:42 am
I am frankly shocked and disappointed. These guys can't compete with Vanguard so they buy Vanguard's funds and no doubt repackage them and sell them on to their unsuspecting clients at a nice profit. That's bad enough. But worse, this gives them potentially a huge influence over how Vanguard operates, including nominating directors etc.
I am shocked and disappointed too. Vanguard Group Inc is the second largest holder of SCHW (Charles Schwab Corporation Common Stock). Wow, that gives them potentially a huge influence over how Schwab operates. If Schwab loses my assets the way Vanguard did and I see my holdings as part of someone else's estate (presumably where they were transferred to and now my account is part of in order to get the funds back) I will again be extremely anxious about my life savings. I hope Vanguard won't be pushing them in that direction!

http://investors.morningstar.com/owners ... ountry=USA
(see equity ownership - institutions tab)
How are you interpreting those results? There are 2 entries - by "total % shares" and by "total % assets". For voting, I would guess that it goes by % shares. By total ownership, Dodge & Cox is the major holder.
Yeah, good question. Um...

I interpret it as Vanguard Group Inc has 6.12% in total of SCHW shares and that is 0.17% in total of Vanguard assets.

So I guess Schwab is basically irrelevant to Vanguard. Never-mind what I said.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 95696
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by LadyGeek »

alpine_boglehead wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:05 am ...Wikipedia states Schwab to have 2.8 trillion in assets under management, and Vanguard now 4.4 trillion. So a good portion of Schwab's 2.8 will actual be at Vanguard, right? (essentially meaning that Vanguard is much bigger in comparison than what the AUM numbers would indicate)
Use caution, as Wikipedia is not a reliable source.

The latest is from Vanguard directly: Fast facts about Vanguard
About $4.5 trillion in global assets under management, as of September 30, 2017
And from Schwab: Asset Management
1. As of June 30, 2017, Charles Schwab Investment Management managed approximately $307.8 billion on a discretionary basis and approximately $14.2 billion on a non-discretionary basis. Source: Assets under management from Charles Schwab Investment Management, Inc.
Remember that financial info is a snapshot in time. Getting the correct date is important.

While the dates don't line up, I don't see how Schwab is close to Vanguard in assets under management.

This is confirmed from Jack Bogle's presentation at the Bogleheads Conference. See the wiki: Bogleheads® 16 - Philadelphia, then Bogleheads XVI! --> Slides 45 - 47. Schwab is not mentioned, but you can see the relative scale of Vanguard compared to other companies.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
User avatar
Kenkat
Posts: 9549
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by Kenkat »

eddyd wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:15 am
Kenkat wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:53 am ... Fidelity or Schwab holds the interest in Vanguard for the benefit of their clients; the client sends money to Fidelity or Schwab, Fidelity or Schwab then uses that money to buy Vanguard funds as an institutional investor.
OK, I understand that Schwab and Fidelity may not own huge parts of Vanguard on their own account. But they still are formally the owners of the shares. Do they allow their clients to vote Vanguard proxies? Or do they decide how to vote based on their own interests? My main concern is whether there is a conflict of interest here that threatens Vanguard's independence. As @in_reality pointed out, there is interlocking ownership, so where are the checks and balances?
They are not actually the owner of the funds, they are the custodian as LadyGeek points out. Proxy votes, fund prospectuses, etc. are passed through to the client who owns the actual funds.

For example, I own an Oakmark fund and a PIMCO fund through Vanguard Brokerage. Vanguard sents proxy materials and other information to me; Oakmark and PIMCO do not.
alex_686
Posts: 13320
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:39 pm

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by alex_686 »

eddyd wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:15 am OK, I understand that Schwab and Fidelity may not own huge parts of Vanguard on their own account. But they still are formally the owners of the shares. Do they allow their clients to vote Vanguard proxies? Or do they decide how to vote based on their own interests? My main concern is whether there is a conflict of interest here that threatens Vanguard's independence. As @in_reality pointed out, there is interlocking ownership, so where are the checks and balances?
They are not the owner of the shares, they are thhe custodian. They handle the fiddle paperwork of holding the shares but they don't have a ownership stake. As such they rarely have voting rights - those rights are retained by the owners.

One might make a case where a Vanguard fund held Schwann shares. The board of the Vanguard fund must be independent from Vanguard and they have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of their owners - the people who own the fund, not Vanguard. This is true for all funds. So in theory you donn't have to worry about this.
Former brokerage operations & mutual fund accountant. I hate risk, which is why I study and embrace it.
pkcrafter
Posts: 15461
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:19 am
Location: CA
Contact:

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by pkcrafter »

Welcome eddyd,
JamesSFO wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:40 am This may reflect 401K plans. Example, Fidelity run 401Ks with Vanguard shares. My point being it isn't clear to me that Fidelity and Schwab are the true beneficial owners.
I agree with JamesSFO.

eddyd:
I am frankly shocked and disappointed. These guys can't compete with Vanguard so they buy Vanguard's funds and no doubt repackage them and sell them on to their unsuspecting clients at a nice profit.

That does not appear to be the case, at least with Fidelity. They offer some Vanguard ETFs and the expense ratios are exactly what Vanguard quotes.

Perhaps buying large blocks of Vanguard funds is the way that other companies like Schwab and Fidelity can offer Vanguard funds through their brokerages.

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 95696
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by LadyGeek »

Upon further review, I think the answer is in the definition of "beneficial owner".

From the SEC: Schedule 13D
Schedule 13D is commonly referred to as a “beneficial ownership report.” The term "beneficial owner" is defined under SEC rules. It includes any person who directly or indirectly shares voting power or investment power (the power to sell the security).

When a person or group of persons acquires beneficial ownership of more than 5% of a voting class of a company’s equity securities registered under Section 12 of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, they are required to file a Schedule 13D with the SEC. (Depending upon the facts and circumstances, the person or group of persons may be eligible to file the more abbreviated Schedule 13G in lieu of Schedule 13D.)
I underlined the important part. The rest of it explains that anyone with 5% or more of beneficial ownership needs to report that info. That's why it's in the proxy vote document.

Next, here's a clear explanation from the SEC: What is the difference between registered and beneficial owners when voting on corporate matters? | Investor.gov
Registered owners (or record holders) receive a proxy and cast votes directly with the company that issues the shares. Beneficial owners, on the other hand, receive a “voting instruction form” directing their brokerage firm or other financial institution how to vote their shares. The brokerage firm (or bank or custodian) casts your proxy vote with the company after receiving instructions from you.
You are receiving a proxy voting form from Vanguard because you are a beneficial owner. The form directs Vanguard to vote as you instruct them.

=============
Everything I see indicates that it's the percentage of voting shares - not assets - when it comes to voting rights.

=======================
eddyd - Did we answer your question? Is there anything that you don't understand? If so, please let us know and we'll try again.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
student
Posts: 10763
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by student »

eddyd wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:15 am
Kenkat wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:53 am ... Fidelity or Schwab holds the interest in Vanguard for the benefit of their clients; the client sends money to Fidelity or Schwab, Fidelity or Schwab then uses that money to buy Vanguard funds as an institutional investor.
OK, I understand that Schwab and Fidelity may not own huge parts of Vanguard on their own account. But they still are formally the owners of the shares. Do they allow their clients to vote Vanguard proxies? Or do they decide how to vote based on their own interests? My main concern is whether there is a conflict of interest here that threatens Vanguard's independence. As @in_reality pointed out, there is interlocking ownership, so where are the checks and balances?
The clients vote. Schwab and Fidelity are the intermediaries.
bondsr4me
Posts: 2427
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:08 am

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by bondsr4me »

This link may help any concerns about who owns VG.

http://www.biglawinvestor.com/why-shoul ... #more-1396
Thanks TAYLOR for this link in your post.

Have a great weekend.
User avatar
TheTimeLord
Posts: 12130
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by TheTimeLord »

If people want to worry about something worry about the effect of Vanguard's irrational acquisition of the investor pie and how subsequent reduction in counter parties to trade with. Bogle is very wise to keep sounding ever louder alarms about the growth in Vanguard's size and the theoretical tipping point for index investing. I spend a fair amount of time contemplating the link between observed results and increased indexing, i.e. just observing something changes its natural behavior. Bogle observed something and reported it and it is changing investor behavior which will eventually change the behavior he initially observed. But no I don't worry a lick about who owns Vanguard.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]
Topic Author
eddyd
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:47 am

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by eddyd »

LadyGeek wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:55 am eddyd - Did we answer your question? Is there anything that you don't understand? If so, please let us know and we'll try again.
Yes, you guys have explained that the ownership figures in the Proxy statement refer to custodial holdings rather than direct beneficial ownership on the part of Schwab etc. (at least that's the presumption). It is confusing that M* gives completely different picture, for example their page for the 500 Index Investor shares makes no mention of Schwab etc. while the Proxy statement says Schwab owns 17.34%.

Unlike @TheTimeLord, I do worry about who owns Vanguard because Vanguard answers to its owners. For example, we could certainly interpret trends such as their enthusiastic embrace of ETFs as catering to the institutional clients rather than ordinary individuals. So it does make a difference.

Ultimately it is still unclear to me who actually owns Vanguard. Is it lots of little guys like me, or is it mostly large institutions? I think this should concern us all, and I would like to get a clearer picture.
User avatar
in_reality
Posts: 4529
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by in_reality »

eddyd wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:38 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:55 am eddyd - Did we answer your question? Is there anything that you don't understand? If so, please let us know and we'll try again.
Yes, you guys have explained that the ownership figures in the Proxy statement refer to custodial holdings rather than direct beneficial ownership on the part of Schwab etc. (at least that's the presumption). It is confusing that M* gives completely different picture, for example their page for the 500 Index Investor shares makes no mention of Schwab etc. while the Proxy statement says Schwab owns 17.34%.

Unlike @TheTimeLord, I do worry about who owns Vanguard because Vanguard answers to its owners. For example, we could certainly interpret trends such as their enthusiastic embrace of ETFs as catering to the institutional clients rather than ordinary individuals. So it does make a difference.

Ultimately it is still unclear to me who actually owns Vanguard. Is it lots of little guys like me, or is it mostly large institutions? I think this should concern us all, and I would like to get a clearer picture.
At any rate, this is most certainly wrong "These guys can't compete with Vanguard so they buy Vanguard's funds and no doubt repackage them and sell them on to their unsuspecting clients at a nice profit".

Schwab's ETFs generally follow a different index than Vanguard's, so it's not possible for them to be doing as you say. Total US market is different, Total bond is different, Schwab doesn't even offer a Total market International fund and good like buying one, breaking it up and trying to meet the differing demands for Schwab's funds.

Many financial advisors custodian at Schwab, and no doubt include Vanguard offerings. In fact, half of th

In terms of accusing Vanguard of catering to institutional clients, you should understand that having ETFs offers tax benefits. This is true for their ordinary mutual funds which share the ETF share class. It allows the mutual funds to generally not have yearly capital gains distributions. So ordinary investors at Vanguard do benefit from ETFs.

My personal concerns around Vanguard are more about their compensation structure which isn't disclosed. The incentives they offer to employees to lower cost could be resulting in decisions to starve the IT department in order to hit targets that don't truly benefit the client/owner. That was my experience anyway.

Also, there is reportedly a huge, huge rainy day fund being held by Vanguard. Significantly larger than when Bogle was in charge. For what purpose? To accumulate money from ERs until it gets paid out to execs?

Another question I have is how Vanguard allocates expenses. For instance, do their large mutual funds pay the Vanguard Group for services based on AUM? If so, might not they be over paying relative to the active Vanguard offerings that they always seem to promote. I mean we know US investors have to foot the bill for European operations as regulations prohibit Vanguard from charging for advice due to the way they are registered so Vanguard has to foot the bill instead of passing it along to investors buying Vanguard from overseas.

Instead of pointing a finger at Schwab, you could be asking what Vanguard itself is doing. I personally view them as a truly excellent company (problems notwithstanding) but if fingers are going to be pointed, let's point them in all directions.
acanthurus
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:02 am

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by acanthurus »

Removed
Last edited by acanthurus on Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
alpine_boglehead
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:51 am
Location: Austria

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by alpine_boglehead »

acanthurus wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:33 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:31 am While the dates don't line up, I don't see how Schwab is close to Vanguard in assets under management.
They are up 2.9T, pretty close to Vanguard:

https://www.brokerage-review.com/invest ... b-aum.aspx
Maybe (matches roughly with my Wikipedia number from above), but obviously a big portion (as outlined in the OP's link) is in Vanguard funds.

Here's another pair of hard numbers which might help approximate the actual difference in magnitude:

SWPPX (Schwab® S&P 500 Index) is 29 billion (http://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/SWPPX/quote.html)
VFINX (Vanguard 500 Index Investor) is 367 billion (https://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/VFINX/quote.html)
alex_686
Posts: 13320
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:39 pm

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by alex_686 »

alpine_boglehead wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:52 pm Here's another pair of hard numbers which might help approximate the actual difference in magnitude:

SWPPX (Schwab® S&P 500 Index) is 29 billion (http://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/SWPPX/quote.html)
VFINX (Vanguard 500 Index Investor) is 367 billion (https://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/VFINX/quote.html)
Not exactly a fair comparison. IIRC, AUM counts both brokerage accounts and mutual funds. Vanguard primarily does mutual funds with brokerage on the side, Schwab primarily does brokerage with mutual funds on the side. So of course Vangaurd will have the larger mutual funds.
Former brokerage operations & mutual fund accountant. I hate risk, which is why I study and embrace it.
IowaFarmBoy
Posts: 1240
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:19 am

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by IowaFarmBoy »

We hold some Vanguard ETFs at Fidelity and voted the proxies in the recent vote that Vanguard held.
User avatar
telemark
Posts: 3389
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:35 am

Re: Who owns Vanguard? Schwab and Fidelity!

Post by telemark »

I own VGSNX (Vanguard Institutional REIT) in a Fidelity 401K and have already voted those shares. Come on, guys, what do you think the Institutional share classes are for? Fidelity manages a lot of 401K plans.
Post Reply