Can you own a share [of a person's future earnings?]

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Nocilis
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Can you own a share [of a person's future earnings?]

Post by Nocilis » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:31 am

I'm not sure if this is the right forum but it's a theory I've been thinking about. Investing in human beings.

For example there are many actors wannabe in LA and most of them don't make it far. What if a producer offer an unproven guy with potential his first major role in a blockbuster movie but ask for 20% of the guy's lifetime movie earnings? Guy gets a huge opportunity and the producer makes more $$$. Win-win.

Or maybe you have a rich family member who's looking for a personal assistant and he paid very well and you know a friend who's been looking for a job and you think suits the job perfectly. So you promise your friend the job in return for 10% of his salary as long as he works there.


So regardless of whether this is ethical or not, is this enforceable in a contract?

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:56 am

Nocilis wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:31 am
For example there are many actors wannabe in LA and most of them don't make it far. What if a producer offer an unproven guy with potential his first major role in a blockbuster movie but ask for 20% of the guy's lifetime movie earnings? Guy gets a huge opportunity and the producer makes more $$$. Win-win.
How would this be different from the agent agreement every actor already enters into?
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

Nocilis
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by Nocilis » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:13 am

oldcomputerguy wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:56 am
How would this be different from the agent agreement every actor already enters into?
Not much except an agent provides continuous service for the guy and an agent can be fired. This is a one off deal that lasts a lifetime.

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:17 am

Nocilis wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:13 am
oldcomputerguy wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:56 am
How would this be different from the agent agreement every actor already enters into?
Not much except an agent provides continuous service for the guy and an agent can be fired. This is a one off deal that lasts a lifetime.
Not sure how smart it would be for the person being represented to sign a deal for what would amount to lifetime indenture.
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

Johm221122
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by Johm221122 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:23 am

Do you mean something like american idol



http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-es ... old-767088

Before Idol viewers voted him the winner that year, Phillips signed a series of contracts governing his management, merchandising, recording and publishing. The deals are quite favorable to 19 Entertainment, a company founded by Simon Fuller that also produces other shows such as So You Think You Can Dance. For example, according to the complaint, when Phillips does endorsements, 19 gets as much as a 40 percent cut.


en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Idol_controversies

American Idol had come under fire for maintaining what some claim to be total control of the careers of the contestants that sign with their company, 19 Entertainment.[46] The contract the contestants are required to sign gives Simon Fuller's company the right to oversee not just the recording deal for American Idol stars, but also control any merchandising, touring, sponsorship and movie deals.[

Nocilis
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by Nocilis » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:43 am

Johm221122 wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:23 am
Do you mean something like american idol



http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-es ... old-767088

Before Idol viewers voted him the winner that year, Phillips signed a series of contracts governing his management, merchandising, recording and publishing. The deals are quite favorable to 19 Entertainment, a company founded by Simon Fuller that also produces other shows such as So You Think You Can Dance. For example, according to the complaint, when Phillips does endorsements, 19 gets as much as a 40 percent cut.


en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Idol_controversies

American Idol had come under fire for maintaining what some claim to be total control of the careers of the contestants that sign with their company, 19 Entertainment.[46] The contract the contestants are required to sign gives Simon Fuller's company the right to oversee not just the recording deal for American Idol stars, but also control any merchandising, touring, sponsorship and movie deals.[
Similar...it's just like investing in a company.

You put $$ or help with a startup company and you get shares and part of their earnings forever or until you sell those shares/company went bankrupt.

You help a struggling actor land a major role and you get part of his earning forever. If he doesn't pan out then you get nothing.

My question is if this is enforceable in a contract?

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djpeteski
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by djpeteski » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:02 am

In poker this is quite common. People swap percentages of their winnings for percentages in others or even for cash. So when you see a guy winning the World Series of Poker main event, a good deal of his winning could be going to other players. Additionally people who do not cash may still win money as the "own" parts of others.

AlohaJoe
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by AlohaJoe » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:05 am

They are called "income sharing agreements". Here's a randomly googled article about it: https://www.alternet.org/education/new- ... e-students

(Despite the sometimes dubious source, a quick skim suggests this is a pretty decent article.)

B4Xt3r
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by B4Xt3r » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:30 am

https://www.purdue.edu/dfa/types-of-aid ... index.html

Is this kind of what you are talking about? If you pay some tuition for undergrad, you get some of their earnings.

runner540
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by runner540 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:57 am

Nocilis wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:31 am
I'm not sure if this is the right forum but it's a theory I've been thinking about. Investing in human beings.

For example there are many actors wannabe in LA and most of them don't make it far. What if a producer offer an unproven guy with potential his first major role in a blockbuster movie but ask for 20% of the guy's lifetime movie earnings? Guy gets a huge opportunity and the producer makes more $$$. Win-win.

Or maybe you have a rich family member who's looking for a personal assistant and he paid very well and you know a friend who's been looking for a job and you think suits the job perfectly. So you promise your friend the job in return for 10% of his salary as long as he works there.


So regardless of whether this is ethical or not, is this enforceable in a contract?
With your explanation, it seems your question is "Can I invest in the future earnings of someone?" and some people have answered that question. Please consider editing the title of your post - it sounds too close to slavery or serfdom.

Rupert
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by Rupert » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:02 am

runner540 wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:57 am
Nocilis wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:31 am
I'm not sure if this is the right forum but it's a theory I've been thinking about. Investing in human beings.

For example there are many actors wannabe in LA and most of them don't make it far. What if a producer offer an unproven guy with potential his first major role in a blockbuster movie but ask for 20% of the guy's lifetime movie earnings? Guy gets a huge opportunity and the producer makes more $$$. Win-win.

Or maybe you have a rich family member who's looking for a personal assistant and he paid very well and you know a friend who's been looking for a job and you think suits the job perfectly. So you promise your friend the job in return for 10% of his salary as long as he works there.


So regardless of whether this is ethical or not, is this enforceable in a contract?
With your explanation, it seems your question is "Can I invest in the future earnings of someone?" and some people have answered that question. Please consider editing the title of your post - it sounds too close to slavery or serfdom.
We resolved quite some time ago that you cannot own a share of a person -- fought a war over it to be precise. You can perhaps "own" a share of a person's income, which was really your question. I, too, suggest you rephrase.
Last edited by Rupert on Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

forgeblast
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by forgeblast » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:39 am

Not a share but Sites like Patron, allow you to get things in return for supporting a persons work.

RadAudit
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by RadAudit » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:54 am

runner540 wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:57 am
With your explanation, it seems your question is "Can I invest in the future earnings of someone?" and some people have answered that question. Please consider editing the title of your post - it sounds too close to slavery or serfdom.
+1

After a quick glance at the title, I had the same thought. I was waiting for someone to direct the OP to regions on the planet where they still practiced that old and rightfully discredited institution.
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ERISA Stone
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by ERISA Stone » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:58 am

A company called Fantex did this with some NFL players a few years back. I haven't heard much lately. Here's a story about Vernon Davis. He was the highest profile player that signed on that I recall.

http://fortune.com/2014/06/06/fantex-ve ... rench-nfl/

Broken Man 1999
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:39 am

A pro golfer I knew was "owned" by a syndicate. The members fronted him expenses for travel and such. I suppose they shared in his winnings as payback. Not sure of the details other than he was being sponsored by the group. He did win several million $$$ he PGA tour over his career.

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Riley15
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by Riley15 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:41 am

Nocilis wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:31 am
I'm not sure if this is the right forum but it's a theory I've been thinking about. Investing in human beings.

For example there are many actors wannabe in LA and most of them don't make it far. What if a producer offer an unproven guy with potential his first major role in a blockbuster movie but ask for 20% of the guy's lifetime movie earnings? Guy gets a huge opportunity and the producer makes more $$$. Win-win.

Or maybe you have a rich family member who's looking for a personal assistant and he paid very well and you know a friend who's been looking for a job and you think suits the job perfectly. So you promise your friend the job in return for 10% of his salary as long as he works there.


So regardless of whether this is ethical or not, is this enforceable in a contract?
Unfortunately many people already beat you to this idea and have become wildly rich because of it. It's called Debt! Student loans, Mortgage loans, Car loans, Payday loans, etc. It can last a lifetime and is no different than any other form of slavery.

kosomoto
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by kosomoto » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:51 am

I proposed this same question on reddit AskEconomics.

Personally I think it's a great idea. This will create tremendous amounts of funding for STEM majors, alleviating the skilled work shortage while disincentivizing less lucrative career paths.

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CABob
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by CABob » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:00 am

If you own a share of a person's future earnings can you sell all or a portion of that agreement?
Bob

chevca
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Re: Can you own a share of a person?

Post by chevca » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:17 am

Nocilis wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:31 am
I'm not sure if this is the right forum but it's a theory I've been thinking about. Investing in human beings.

For example there are many actors wannabe in LA and most of them don't make it far. What if a producer offer an unproven guy with potential his first major role in a blockbuster movie but ask for 20% of the guy's lifetime movie earnings? Guy gets a huge opportunity and the producer makes more $$$. Win-win.

Or maybe you have a rich family member who's looking for a personal assistant and he paid very well and you know a friend who's been looking for a job and you think suits the job perfectly. So you promise your friend the job in return for 10% of his salary as long as he works there.


So regardless of whether this is ethical or not, is this enforceable in a contract?
I think they already have these folks called agents and head hunters that do what you describe, as actual jobs.

Anyone that agreed to these contracts to give you 10 or 20% would be a fool, IMO. But, the world is full of them....

I'm sure you factored in reporting this income and paying taxes on it...

Many actors and most don't make it very far.... sort of sound like penny stocks. :happy

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Re: Can you own a share of a [of a person's future earnings?]

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:19 am

This thread has run its course and is locked (not actionable). See: Non-actionable (Trolling) Topics
If readers can't do anything with the content of a topic other than argue about it, it does not belong here. Examples include:
  • US or world economic, political, tax, health care and climate policies
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  • discussions of the crimes, shortcomings or stupidity of other people, whether they be political figures, celebrities, CEOs, Fed chairmen, subprime mortgage borrowers, lottery winners, federal "bailout" recipients, poor people, rich people, etc. Of course, you are welcome to talk about the stupid financial things you have done.
I also fixed the thread title.
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