Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
Cash
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Cash » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:22 am

I also got the extension e-mail for my HSA.

ChiliH20
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by ChiliH20 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:54 pm

Has any put together a comparable list of Vanguard Funds to the new commission free funds? Sorry if this has already been posted, but I read through a lot of post and didn't see it. I am in these funds and would rather just move to the comparable commission free fund then dealing with moving brokerage accounts. I think I would only move if there is nothing comparable and/or ER is higher. Thanks in advance.

VTI
VBR
VSS
VEA
VWO
VNQ
BND

Theoretical
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Theoretical » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:09 pm

ChiliH20 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:54 pm
Has any put together a comparable list of Vanguard Funds to the new commission free funds? Sorry if this has already been posted, but I read through a lot of post and didn't see it. I am in these funds and would rather just move to the comparable commission free fund then dealing with moving brokerage accounts. I think I would only move if there is nothing comparable and/or ER is higher. Thanks in advance.

VTI - SPTM
VBR - SLYV - .15 but bad in taxable
VSS - 80/20 DLS/DGS - much more expensive and bad in taxable.
VEA - SPDW
VWO - SPEM
VNQ - REET or ISRT
BND - SPAB

overthought
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by overthought » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:43 pm

Theoretical wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:09 pm
ChiliH20 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:54 pm
Has any put together a comparable list of Vanguard Funds to the new commission free funds?
VBR - SLYV - .15 but bad in taxable
VSS - 80/20 DLS/DGS - much more expensive and bad in taxable.
I hold some SLYV in taxable :shock: what makes it bad?

(Also curious what makes DLS/DGS bad in taxable?)

ChiliH20
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by ChiliH20 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:50 pm

thanks! my TDA accounts are tax advantage retirement accts. appreciate the help!

airelleofmusic
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by airelleofmusic » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:25 pm

Look like bid/ask spreads are tightening, today 4 hours after the open the spreads for SPDW, SPEM, SPLG were 0.01$
LBYM and enjoy life ! Thanks BH !

Theoretical
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Theoretical » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:34 pm

SLYV is noticeably less tax efficient than IJS or VIOV, mostly because it's distributed capital gains. The latter two are equal or even more efficient than TSM. Vanguard and Blackrock are kind of rock stars in tax efficiency for the ETFs and it seems a weakness/lack of emphasis for the State Street stuff in comparison.

Re: DLS and DGS - it's because of high dividend yields, some of which are not qualified.

centrifuge41
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by centrifuge41 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:34 am

Please see the wiki.
ChiliH20 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:54 pm
Has any put together a comparable list of Vanguard Funds to the new commission free funds? Sorry if this has already been posted, but I read through a lot of post and didn't see it. I am in these funds and would rather just move to the comparable commission free fund then dealing with moving brokerage accounts. I think I would only move if there is nothing comparable and/or ER is higher. Thanks in advance.

VTI
VBR
VSS
VEA
VWO
VNQ
BND

TIAX
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TIAX » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:27 pm

Information regarding the new proprietary SSGA index that SPTM is now following is available here.

According to section 5.7, (IPOs):
IPOs launched between the most recent rebalance and next rebalance dates will be evaluated according to the following rules:
Fast Track IPOs: if the company level total market cap of the IPO falls within the top half (50%) of the total market capitalization of the index as of the date of the IPO, it will be added to the Large Cap and Total Stock Market Indices on the last business day of the calendar month following the month of the initial public offering (i.e, March 31, 2017 if the IPO was launched on February 20, 2017) conditional on meeting all criteria listed in section 5.2 (with the exception of the liquidity criteria), and conditional
on the rules in section 5.5 on non-voting shares. Securities which qualify receive a weight based on their free float market capitalization.
Couldn't knowing the exact day an IPO will be added to the index cause front running?

B4Xt3r
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by B4Xt3r » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:50 pm

Hi All,

I am wondering what is the best equivalent of BSV, VSS, and BNDX.

For BSV, is it some combination of SPSB/SPTS?
For VSS, is it some combination of GWX/EWX?
For BNDX, is it IAGG?

Thanks!

-kehyler

zeugmite
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by zeugmite » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:08 pm

So what's the deal with (variously) the extension to Jan. 19, the elimination of the short-term trading fee, and the $4.95 commission schedule? Is there any definitive answer on whether retail taxable accounts get these or not?

airelleofmusic
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by airelleofmusic » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:19 pm

Just changed my ETF today VEU replacement for SPDW/SPEM perfect !
LBYM and enjoy life ! Thanks BH !

livesoft
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:50 pm

airelleofmusic wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:19 pm
Just changed my ETF today VEU replacement for SPDW/SPEM perfect !
And were you charged a commission for selling VEU?
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Ragnoth
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Ragnoth » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:54 pm

zeugmite wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:08 pm
So what's the deal with (variously) the extension to Jan. 19, the elimination of the short-term trading fee, and the $4.95 commission schedule? Is there any definitive answer on whether retail taxable accounts get these or not?
The general assumption is that it only applies to institutional accounts (or accounts tied to institutions). For example, 401k tied to a large employer plan, HSA, etc.

Don't assume you have an extension unless you received an email. Chances of a retail taxable account having the extension is essentially zilch.

Feel free to reach out to TDA customer service if there are specific questions.

airelleofmusic
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by airelleofmusic » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:12 pm

livesoft wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:50 pm
airelleofmusic wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:19 pm
Just changed my ETF today VEU replacement for SPDW/SPEM perfect !
And were you charged a commission for selling VEU?
Nope it was the last day this ETF was on the commission-free list so it was perfect timing !
LBYM and enjoy life ! Thanks BH !

drk
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by drk » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:03 pm

zeugmite wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:08 pm
So what's the deal with (variously) the extension to Jan. 19, the elimination of the short-term trading fee, and the $4.95 commission schedule? Is there any definitive answer on whether retail taxable accounts get these or not?
The deal is that TDA does not communicate effectively. For my retail taxable account, I've been told directly via secure message that the extension applies.

TIAX
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TIAX » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:31 pm

drk wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:03 pm
zeugmite wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:08 pm
So what's the deal with (variously) the extension to Jan. 19, the elimination of the short-term trading fee, and the $4.95 commission schedule? Is there any definitive answer on whether retail taxable accounts get these or not?
The deal is that TDA does not communicate effectively. For my retail taxable account, I've been told directly via secure message that the extension applies.
If you have a message that the extension applies, make the trades and if you're charged a commission, respond to the message and I'm sure the commissions will be waived.

overthought
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by overthought » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:10 pm

I received an email from TDA today stating:
TD Ameritrade now offers 296 commission‑free exchange‑traded funds (ETFs)—the most of any brokerage!
A quick summary of the list:
  • 44 iShares
  • 61 First Trust
  • 5 JP Morgan
  • 27 Power Shares
  • 9 ProShares
  • 4 QuantShares
  • 74 SPDR
  • 72 Wisdom Tree
I kind of wonder if anything meaningful changed. SPY is still conspicuously missing from the iShares lineup; so are Vanguard, Fidelity, and Schwab fund families. So probably not...

TJofNOHO
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TJofNOHO » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:33 pm

Does low trade volume affect ETFs the same way as individual stocks? I’ve noticed several people mention it as a deterrent for some of the new TDA funds. But when I looked into it online, I found different opinions. Here are a some references.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/738491 ... be-avoided

https://sixfigureinvesting.com/2015/08/ ... e-etf-etn/

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triceratop
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by triceratop » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:52 pm

overthought wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:43 pm
Theoretical wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:09 pm
ChiliH20 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:54 pm
Has any put together a comparable list of Vanguard Funds to the new commission free funds?
VBR - SLYV - .15 but bad in taxable
VSS - 80/20 DLS/DGS - much more expensive and bad in taxable.
I hold some SLYV in taxable :shock: what makes it bad?

(Also curious what makes DLS/DGS bad in taxable?)
See here: Distributions - SLYV
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

avalpert
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by avalpert » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:05 pm

TJofNOHO wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:33 pm
Does low trade volume affect ETFs the same way as individual stocks? I’ve noticed several people mention it as a deterrent for some of the new TDA funds. But when I looked into it online, I found different opinions. Here are a some references.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/738491 ... be-avoided

https://sixfigureinvesting.com/2015/08/ ... e-etf-etn/
Low trade volume can make it difficult for you to buy/sell (relatively) large lots when you need to at a price that is reflective of the underlying assets. Whether that will impact you depends on your circumstances.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:55 pm

Low volume often results in higher bid/ask spreads.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

TJofNOHO
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TJofNOHO » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:03 pm

avalpert wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:05 pm
[quote=TJofNOHO post_id=3639833 time=<a href="tel:1511976818">1511976818</a> user_id=127369]
Does low trade volume affect ETFs the same way as individual stocks? I’ve noticed several people mention it as a deterrent for some of the new TDA funds. But when I looked into it online, I found different opinions. Here are a some references.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/738491 ... be-avoided

https://sixfigureinvesting.com/2015/08/ ... e-etf-etn/
Low trade volume can make it difficult for you to buy/sell (relatively) large lots when you need to at a price that is reflective of the underlying assets. Whether that will impact you depends on your circumstances.
[/quote]


Ah thank u! I will DCA fairly small amounts so prob won’t affect me.

Bonus question:
I’ve just opened up a Solo 401k both Individual and Roth at TDA (annoying timing, but they still seem best for Solos)
I also have a Roth IRA at Vanguard.

My dream list of funds before the new comish free list came out was
VTI - US stocks
VXUS - Int. Stocks
VBR - SCV US Stocks
VNQ - Reits
BND - US Bonds
BNDX - Int Bonds

I can probably only keep one of these Vanguard funds in the precious little space of my IRA. Which one is hardest to replicate w new TDA Etfs?

I was leaning towards VBR.

Was thinking of filling my “buckets” like so:

TDA 401k Traditional
US Bonds
Int Bonds
Reits

TDA 401k Roth
US Stocks
Int Stocks

Vanguard Roth IRA
VBR

Appreciate input on any or all the above!

avalpert
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by avalpert » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:10 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:55 pm
Low volume often results in higher bid/ask spreads.
Not with ETFs - for the most part ETFs bid/ask spreads are driven by the liquidity of the underlying assets and not the liquidity of the ETF (it is possible for there to be exceptions but it certainly isn't typical so can't be called something that happens often).

livesoft
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:20 pm

TJofNOHO wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:03 pm
My dream list of funds before the new comish free list came out was
VTI - US stocks
VXUS - Int. Stocks
VBR - SCV US Stocks
VNQ - Reits
BND - US Bonds
BNDX - Int Bonds

I can probably only keep one of these Vanguard funds in the precious little space of my IRA. Which one is hardest to replicate w new TDA Etfs?

I was leaning towards VBR.
I think VXUS is the hardest to replicate with the newish TDA ETFs. I suggest you do your own research though.
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TJofNOHO
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TJofNOHO » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:48 pm

avalpert wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:10 pm
[quote="Earl Lemongrab" post_id=3640116 time=<a href="tel:1511985333">1511985333</a> user_id=54311]
Low volume often results in higher bid/ask spreads.
Not with ETFs - for the most part ETFs bid/ask spreads are driven by the liquidity of the underlying assets and not the liquidity of the ETF (it is possible for there to be exceptions but it certainly isn't typical so can't be called something that happens often).
[/quote]

Very interesting!
livesoft wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:20 pm
[quote=TJofNOHO post_id=3640129 time=<a href="tel:1511985782">1511985782</a> user_id=127369]
My dream list of funds before the new comish free list came out was
VTI - US stocks
VXUS - Int. Stocks
VBR - SCV US Stocks
VNQ - Reits
BND - US Bonds
BNDX - Int Bonds

I can probably only keep one of these Vanguard funds in the precious little space of my IRA. Which one is hardest to replicate w new TDA Etfs?

I was leaning towards VBR.
I think VXUS is the hardest to replicate with the newish TDA ETFs. I suggest you do your own research though.
[/quote]

I will look into it! I’ve been hearing that from a few people, thx for the nudge!

TropikThunder
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TropikThunder » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:54 pm

livesoft wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:20 pm
TJofNOHO wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:03 pm
My dream list of funds before the new comish free list came out was
VTI - US stocks
VXUS - Int. Stocks
VBR - SCV US Stocks
VNQ - Reits
BND - US Bonds
BNDX - Int Bonds

I can probably only keep one of these Vanguard funds in the precious little space of my IRA. Which one is hardest to replicate w new TDA Etfs?

I was leaning towards VBR.
I think VXUS is the hardest to replicate with the newish TDA ETFs. I suggest you do your own research though.
Then again, VXUS was not on the commission-free list before the changes to their lineup. So I imagine most people in this situation were using a VEA/VWO or VEU/VSS mix anyway.

livesoft
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:58 pm

@TropikThunder, that is absolutely true. Thanks for pointing that out.
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downshiftme
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by downshiftme » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:18 am

I was unaware of this change to Vanguard ETFs charging commissions in a TDA account. Yesterday I did sell a Vanguard ETF position and was charged a trading fee. Maybe it's time to move the account to Vanguard and avoid this kind of surprise.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:36 am

downshiftme wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:18 am
I was unaware of this change to Vanguard ETFs charging commissions in a TDA account. Yesterday I did sell a Vanguard ETF position and was charged a trading fee. Maybe it's time to move the account to Vanguard and avoid this kind of surprise.
You didn't receive notification about the change from TDA? And of course this thread.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

livesoft
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:51 pm

downshiftme wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:18 am
I was unaware of this change to Vanguard ETFs charging commissions in a TDA account. Yesterday I did sell a Vanguard ETF position and was charged a trading fee. Maybe it's time to move the account to Vanguard and avoid this kind of surprise.
TDAmeritrade never sent any communication to me either until I asked about it. I think you can and should call them up and have the trading fee reimbursed and while you are at it, ask for 100 or more free trades.
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sperry8
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads

Post by sperry8 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:46 am

jhfenton wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:04 am
lazyday wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:52 am
jhfenton wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:23 am
lazyday wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:52 am
There's several SPDR® Portfolio funds.
The SPDR® Portfolio site is currently "down for maintenance." :?
Up for me at the moment. Here's a list, though I didn't check if all are free at TDA: https://us.spdrs.com/en/strategies/spdr ... folio-etfs
It is back up now for me as well. According to the press release I linked, all the SPDR Portfolio ETFs are commission-free at TD Ameritrade now.

They're missing equivalents for VSS--there is no equivalent to VSS--and VBR, but it's not a bad list. (SLYV at 15 bp is a reasonable choice to replace VBR, but it's not on the SPDR Portfolio list, and it's not quite as cheap as VBR's 7 bp.)
SLYV (the replacement for VBR) is on the free list: https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_ ... 000835.pdf
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jhfenton
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads

Post by jhfenton » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:51 am

sperry8 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:46 am
jhfenton wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:04 am
lazyday wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:52 am
jhfenton wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:23 am
lazyday wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:52 am
There's several SPDR® Portfolio funds.
The SPDR® Portfolio site is currently "down for maintenance." :?
Up for me at the moment. Here's a list, though I didn't check if all are free at TDA: https://us.spdrs.com/en/strategies/spdr ... folio-etfs
It is back up now for me as well. According to the press release I linked, all the SPDR Portfolio ETFs are commission-free at TD Ameritrade now.

They're missing equivalents for VSS--there is no equivalent to VSS--and VBR, but it's not a bad list. (SLYV at 15 bp is a reasonable choice to replace VBR, but it's not on the SPDR Portfolio list, and it's not quite as cheap as VBR's 7 bp.)
SLYV (the replacement for VBR) is on the free list: https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_ ... 000835.pdf
SLYV is on the TD Ameritrade commission-free list. It's not on the SPDR Portfolio list, so it's not as cheap as the SPDR funds on the SPDR Portfolio list.

But 15 bp is reasonable. I pay 20 bp for VIOV, Vanguard's version of the same fund for use in taxable. I use VSIAX/VBR in for our much larger investments in tax-advantaged.

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sperry8
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by sperry8 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:23 am

So I've been trying to decide if it is worth it to trade now (while it's free to switch) or to just sit tight and pay the $6.95 fee when I need to trade in the future.

I currently hold
VSS
VOE (ER .12%) --> MDYV (ER .15%)
VBR (ER .06%) --> SLYV (ER .15%)

I hold $6k of VOE and $3k of VBR in a non-taxable HSA custodial account. It appears to me that the new funds would result in higher costs annually of:
MDYV, $18 and SLYV, $27. I'm simply multiplying the difference between the ERs for my two funds times the amount of $'s I hold. Since the trading fee is $6.95 per transaction and I have no intent to make any transactions for quite some time (a decade or more), it seems to me it makes sense to just hold and not swap. For new monies I can direct them into the new free funds.

Am I doing the math and thinking about this correctly?
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stlutz
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by stlutz » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:10 pm

Careful with SLYV in a taxable account. For some reason it consistently has significant capital gain distributions.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by drk » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:25 am

avalpert wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:49 pm
drk wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:01 am
galectin wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:50 pm
airelleofmusic wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:57 pm
Regarding the extension of the period for the previous commission-free list I received the below message from a TD Ameritrade agent:

"Hello again! Your friend must have an account with our Institutional segment. Those accounts are managed by professional investment advisors, who maintain large portfolios of client accounts. Institutional has decided to extend the timeline for advisors to January 19, 2018 because the process of adjusting positions in model portfolios (often numbering in the hundreds or thousands) is highly labor intensive. This extension will allow advisors more time to review funds and make changes as necessary.

Your account is in the retail segment and the extension is not available for retail accounts.
Yes. I sat down today at our local TDA office with a rep. and he confirmed that only institutional accounts have the extension. He also had been confused because his IRA has the extension, but it is in the institutional category because he is his own advisor. As SlowMovingInvestor suggested yesterday, HSA accounts are in the institutional category.

So, if you didn't get an email telling you that it was extended to Jan 19, your deadline is Nov 20. The emails from TDA to you are the best thing to go by.

The TDA rep gave me four free trades for a year in each account (without me even asking), so if you think that you need more time to make any changes you might want to ask for some free trades.
Odd. I sent a message on TDA's website and was told that "all clients participating the Commission Free ETF program are covered by the extended deadline."
This is the response I got from my message through the secure message center attached to my account:
Thank you for writing in. I'm happy to assist any way possible.

My apologies that e-mail volumes we've had are just now allowing for a response to your inquiry.

The extension that you are referencing has to do with Institutional clients. Your account with us is a Retail relationship so it would be unaffected by the January date. My apologies for the confusion on this.

If you have further questions or concerns, please respond to this message or call us directly at 800-669-3900. We appreciate your business.
It turns out that I was given incorrect information (not surprising considering that I never received any communications in the first place). When I placed an order for one of the old commission-free ETFs yesterday, I was charged a commission. I sent a message about it, and TDA refunded it and gave me ten trades.

ChicagoSparty
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by ChicagoSparty » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:12 pm

Has the liquidity of the State Street funds improved since the TDA switch from Vanguard?

livesoft
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:30 pm

I've been watching things and no, the liquidity is not there. I don't know if it was worse a month ago, but it is no where near what I would consider usable to me.

The bid/ask spreads seems larger, too, just from the simple mechanics of prices. For instance, compare AGG and SPAB. 1 cent on 109 is a spread of 0.01%, but 1 cent on 28.6 is a spread of 0.035% and the SPAB spread is often 2 cents.

Fortunately, TDAmeritrade reps have been responsive and seem happy to give one enough free trades that one can still keep using Vanguard ETFs with no commission. Plus the free trades include stocks and ETFs that were never on the no commission list in the first place.
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TropikThunder
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TropikThunder » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:36 pm

ChicagoSparty wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:12 pm
Has the liquidity of the State Street funds improved since the TDA switch from Vanguard?
It certainly has for the only one I’m using, SPTM (Total Stock). When this thread started, the rolling 10-day average trading volume was ~50k shares. It’s now over 400k, with a typical spread of $0.01-0.02. I’m sure it will improve given the “nudge” from TDA. That said, I haven’t looked at any of the other funds.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:39 pm

And SPTM is another one of those 1 cent spread for $33 versus 1 cent spread for $138 things. The average daily volume is still not much more than VSS.
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livesoft
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:29 pm

Today I am watching VCSH and SPSB which are both short-term corporate bond index ETFs.

SPSB has trades at the ask, but none at the bid. VCSH has trades at the bid, the ask, and in-between. The spread is 1 cent for both of them, but since SPSB trades for less than half the price, percentagewise the spread is twice as large for SPSB. So today, all buyers are paying the full spread of SPSB, but some buyers of VCSH are making the sellers pay the spread.
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TropikThunder
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TropikThunder » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:41 pm

livesoft wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:39 pm
And SPTM is another one of those 1 cent spread for $33 versus 1 cent spread for $138 things. The average daily volume is still not much more than VSS.
Fair point. I know when SPTM launched they did a 6:1 split (just to lower the share price?) and we don’t know what the spread would have been without the split (I never looked at the predecessor fund THRK) but it would likely be several cents.

It’s about perspective too though (or maybe just rationalization). Compared to getting VTI commission-free, SPTM is worse. Compared to paying a commission for VTI, SPTM is better. I look at it as making lemonade from a bag of lemons you didn’t ask for (TDA changing the commission-free list).

giddyup
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by giddyup » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:40 pm

Anyone have any ideas on a suitable replacement for VYM (Vanguard High Dividend Yield) on the TDA commission free ETF list?

I have searched all over bogle and haven't found anyone offering any replacements for this ETF. Looking for something hopefully with a low expense ratio.

Thanks in advance.

doingwell
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by doingwell » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:13 pm

giddyup wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:40 pm
Anyone have any ideas on a suitable replacement for VYM (Vanguard High Dividend Yield) on the TDA commission free ETF list?

I have searched all over bogle and haven't found anyone offering any replacements for this ETF. Looking for something hopefully with a low expense ratio.

Thanks in advance.
SPDR Portfolio S&P 500 High Dividend ETF, SPYD, might be your best bet. Not a perfect match—significantly few holdings and blend versus value—to VYM but commission free with a lower ER.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by deltaneutral83 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:53 pm

I just started to peruse SPTM for my HSA (Total US Index commission free ETF with Ameritrade) and didn't see BRK.B on it's top ten holdings, and then when I expanded it I didn't see it at all?? Am I missing something?

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Alskar
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Alskar » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:19 pm

After TD "enhanced" their commission-free ETF program, I decided to move all of the assets I had at TD to Fidelity. I did this because of concerns about the liquidity of the ETF's on the new list which are tiny compared to the Vanguard funds, a long history of customer service issues at TD and the fact that the reinvestment price I was getting through TD's DRIP was significantly higher than at Fidelity.

This last issue seems to never come up in the discussion of TD. If there is interest, I will format the comparison I did of reinvestment price of VTI, VXUS, BND, ITOT, IXUS and AGG at both Fidelity and TD so I can post it to the forum. I shared this data with TD but I never really got a reasonable explanation for the difference in reinvestment price.

From what I can tell, the DRIP programs work very differently at the two firms. At Fidelity, one must be signed up for DRIP well in advance of the ex-dividend date. If memory serves it's something like 10 days. Fidelity quietly buys the necessary shares to pay the DRIP before the payable date. At TD it appears that they're buying the entire lot on the payable date. In any case, I received lower reinvestment prices (and hence more shares) at Fidelity than at TD over the ~18 month period for which I took data. YMMV.
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livesoft
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:23 pm

Reinvestment price of ETFs has come up before. It seems random if one keeps track for months. I'm looking forward to your numbers and will go find a link to previous numbers.

I will say that on recent TDAmeritrade reinvestment, I got a decent price for VCSH earlier this week near the low of the day. Last week, I paid a price of $70 for AGG even though it is trading near $109. :twisted:

Vanguard always uses the opening price when it does reinvestment. I think it is not common to have the opening price the lowest price of the day.

In general though, I prefer to do the reinvesting myself on the payable date which is one day before TDAmeritrade and Vanguard will reinvest for me.

And I found the thread from 2010 with some more information: viewtopic.php?p=699063
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livesoft
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:32 pm

And what you wrote about Fidelity buying shares on the ex-dividend date in anticipation of moving the shares to clients' accounts means that in a generally rising market, Fidelity with its earlier purchases should have slightly lower prices.
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doingwell
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by doingwell » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:43 pm

deltaneutral83 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:53 pm
I just started to peruse SPTM for my HSA (Total US Index commission free ETF with Ameritrade) and didn't see BRK.B on it's top ten holdings, and then when I expanded it I didn't see it at all?? Am I missing something?
It is there. It shows up on the third page of holdings at etfdb.com (http://etfdb.com/etf/SPTM/#holdings).

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:51 pm

I wanted to mention one more thing about dividend reinvestment: The share price shown in one's list of transactions is probably not correct. The reason is round-off error which can be significant. Here is an outrageous example:
Image

Clearly, if I paid 7 cents for 0.001 shares, then I paid $0.07 / 0.001 = $70 per share and not the stated $109.3305. :)

So when you collect data, please do the math and do not simply restate the price in your statement(s). I think the previous discussion of prices used for re-investment in the link I gave may suffer from the same kind of error.
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