Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

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susleni
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by susleni » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:56 am

For those of us holding VTI, VT, and BND at TD, would it be better to just pay the new transaction fee, or find equivalents from the new no-fee list? If so, what would be good equivalents? Thanks!

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indexfundfan
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by indexfundfan » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:08 am

triceratop wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:17 pm
tfb wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:47 am
avalpert wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:22 pm
Low volume shouldn't really impact bid/ask spreads in broad market ETFs much (a quick look at the bid/ask spread on SPEM and VWO compared to the volume should demonstrate that to you). The reason is because the ability for certain participants to create/destroy units using the underlying holdings acts to keep the spread in line (within the confines of the underlying holdings).
Low volume can impact your ability to buy/sell larger lots on demand though.
Exactly. The low spread displayed is for 100 shares. Try put in a market order for 1,000 shares and see what prices you get.
It's certainly true for 100 shares, but that doesn't mean it's only true for 100 shares. As of the moment (early afternoon trading) you will get 600 shares at the ask, 400 at the bid. (Compare to 59,800/34,100 at the bid/ask for VWO)

After that, who knows. Maybe livesoft will be along to tell us what the Level II quotes look like.
Snapshot of level II for SPTM (US Total Stock Market) this morning

Image
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SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:34 am

nps wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:01 am
Looks like TDA is getting lots of feedback. Complaints from institutional investors have caused them to delay commission-free fund removal for those clients by an additional 60 days:

http://www.investmentnews.com/article/2 ... pular-etfs
But not for us poor individual investors :( ?

Actually, they should extend till next year at least for people who don't want to take a tax hit doing changes this year.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by lazyday » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:40 am

susleni wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:56 am
For those of us holding VTI, VT, and BND at TD, would it be better to just pay the new transaction fee, or find equivalents from the new no-fee list?
What I would do myself:

Count the number of trades per year, multiply by $7, divide by account size.

If it's less than .0002 (two basis points) then pay the $7 and stick with Vanguard.

If it's over .001 (1/10 percent) then switch to NTF funds if there are equivalent ones available.

If it's in between: skim some prospectuses and annual reports, make a decision.

Or I might just switch to Merrill Edge, Vanguard, Fidelity, or Schwab

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triceratop
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by triceratop » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:00 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:08 am
triceratop wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:17 pm
tfb wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:47 am
avalpert wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:22 pm
Low volume shouldn't really impact bid/ask spreads in broad market ETFs much (a quick look at the bid/ask spread on SPEM and VWO compared to the volume should demonstrate that to you). The reason is because the ability for certain participants to create/destroy units using the underlying holdings acts to keep the spread in line (within the confines of the underlying holdings).
Low volume can impact your ability to buy/sell larger lots on demand though.
Exactly. The low spread displayed is for 100 shares. Try put in a market order for 1,000 shares and see what prices you get.
It's certainly true for 100 shares, but that doesn't mean it's only true for 100 shares. As of the moment (early afternoon trading) you will get 600 shares at the ask, 400 at the bid. (Compare to 59,800/34,100 at the bid/ask for VWO)

After that, who knows. Maybe livesoft will be along to tell us what the Level II quotes look like.
Snapshot of level II for SPTM (US Total Stock Market) this morning

Image
Thanks! My original post was about SPEM. Could you please post it for SPEM vs. VWO ?
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by avalpert » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:06 am

nps wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:01 am
Looks like TDA is getting lots of feedback. Complaints from institutional investors have caused them to delay commission-free fund removal for those clients by an additional 60 days:

http://www.investmentnews.com/article/2 ... pular-etfs
Communication and change management - even the best plans get tripped up with it

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by indexfundfan » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:47 am

triceratop wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:00 am
Thanks! My original post was about SPEM. Could you please post it for SPEM vs. VWO ?
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by indexfundfan » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:50 am

Volume and depth of SPEM is a lot less than VWO. But if you are just doing DCA with no more than one or two hundred shares each time, SPEM looks OK.
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triceratop
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by triceratop » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:06 pm

Thanks! I agree. For trades less than ~$10k, SPEM looks more or less fine. If you're TLH'ing though, it seems worth paying attention to.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by ladders11 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:37 pm

susleni wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:56 am
For those of us holding VTI, VT, and BND at TD, would it be better to just pay the new transaction fee, or find equivalents from the new no-fee list? If so, what would be good equivalents? Thanks!
VTI ~ SPTM
BND ~ SPAB
VT ~ There is no equivalent for VT. There is a fund ACWI which is similar but excludes small-caps and the ER is 3x higher. (VT is .11 and ACWI is .33)

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Mardoc01 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:39 pm

wait... so i cant trade commission free spdw in my tax adv plans? only taxable ? -- also, if i buy a significant number of shares, over say 5000- it will be difficult and/or i wont be able to fill, plus or a large spread will incur? i say this because i intend to hold for a long time and if the er is lower , wont i make back the spread diff. over the next several years in fees saved ?

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by triceratop » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:57 pm

Mardoc01 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:39 pm
wait... so i cant trade commission free spdw in my tax adv plans? only taxable ? -- also, if i buy a significant number of shares, over say 5000- it will be difficult and/or i wont be able to fill, plus or a large spread will incur? i say this because i intend to hold for a long time and if the er is lower , wont i make back the spread diff. over the next several years in fees saved ?
You can trade SPDW commission-free in a TDA account: https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_ ... 000835.pdf

Just to be clear: due to volume in some ETFs like SPEM you cannot buy more than a few hundred shares without at times receiving lower prices. However, you should be able to hold many multiples of that.

Why do you find it common to buy >5000 shares of anything? 5000 shares of SPEM is $185,000 USD, 5000 shares of SPDW is $150,000 USD.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Mardoc01 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:10 pm

triceratop wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:57 pm
Mardoc01 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:39 pm
wait... so i cant trade commission free spdw in my tax adv plans? only taxable ? -- also, if i buy a significant number of shares, over say 5000- it will be difficult and/or i wont be able to fill, plus or a large spread will incur? i say this because i intend to hold for a long time and if the er is lower , wont i make back the spread diff. over the next several years in fees saved ?
You can trade SPDW commission-free in a TDA account: https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_ ... 000835.pdf

Just to be clear: due to volume in some ETFs like SPEM you cannot buy more than a few hundred shares without at times receiving lower prices. However, you should be able to hold many multiples of that.

Why do you find it common to buy >5000 shares of anything? 5000 shares of SPEM is $185,000 USD, 5000 shares of SPDW is $150,000 USD.
i thought one of the other posters stated these new etfs were not comm free in tax advantaged plans - my mistake, also, i didnt say it was common= on the contrary i wish to make a large one time purchase of dev market etf to diversify as i have no intl exposure... i also plan to prob purchase spem as well the Er is superior to vwo,etc- i just have been reading about "difficulties in purchasng larger lots secondary to lower volumes" i hope with their association with TDa that volumes would increase and spreads would decrease also, with lower price , maybe cash drag would be less and with lower ER - my overall benefit would be to own these over the 'long haul' what do you think or should a i go in a "different direction or etf" thx for any input ...

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by indexfundfan » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:26 pm

Mardoc01 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:10 pm
i thought one of the other posters stated these new etfs were not comm free in tax advantaged plans - my mistake, also, i didnt say it was common= on the contrary i wish to make a large one time purchase of dev market etf to diversify as i have no intl exposure... i also plan to prob purchase spem as well the Er is superior to vwo,etc- i just have been reading about "difficulties in purchasng larger lots secondary to lower volumes" i hope with their association with TDa that volumes would increase and spreads would decrease also, with lower price , maybe cash drag would be less and with lower ER - my overall benefit would be to own these over the 'long haul' what do you think or should a i go in a "different direction or etf" thx for any input ...
If you wish to make a huge purchase in your tax advantaged plan, split it and purchase in smaller lots. There's no commission anyway, and there will not be any additional tax complexity in a tax advantaged account.
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Mardoc01 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:36 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:26 pm
Mardoc01 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:10 pm
i thought one of the other posters stated these new etfs were not comm free in tax advantaged plans - my mistake, also, i didnt say it was common= on the contrary i wish to make a large one time purchase of dev market etf to diversify as i have no intl exposure... i also plan to prob purchase spem as well the Er is superior to vwo,etc- i just have been reading about "difficulties in purchasng larger lots secondary to lower volumes" i hope with their association with TDa that volumes would increase and spreads would decrease also, with lower price , maybe cash drag would be less and with lower ER - my overall benefit would be to own these over the 'long haul' what do you think or should a i go in a "different direction or etf" thx for any input ...
If you wish to make a huge purchase in your tax advantaged plan, split it and purchase in smaller lots. There's no commission anyway, and there will not be any additional tax complexity in a tax advantaged account.
Yes. I figured , but I also imwill buying other spdr etfs in taxable as well. You don't think a large lot will be poss or prudent because of the volume and spread avail ? Or will this change as hopefully volume picks up with the td ameritrade affiliation ??

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by indexfundfan » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:44 pm

Mardoc01 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:36 pm
Yes. I figured , but I also imwill buying other spdr etfs in taxable as well. You don't think a large lot will be poss or prudent because of the volume and spread avail ? Or will this change as hopefully volume picks up with the td ameritrade affiliation ??
Yes, I do think volume will pick up with the SPDR portfolio ETFs.
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airelleofmusic
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by airelleofmusic » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:49 pm

So this extended period for commission free on Vanguard ETF is only available for institutionals ?
LBYM and enjoy life ! Thanks BH !

Mardoc01
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Mardoc01 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:35 pm

Yeah. That is another question I had ?

John Laurens
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by John Laurens » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:55 pm

For individual investors, November 20th is the last day to trade the old “independently selected Morningstar etfs” from Vanguard, IShares, et al. On November 21 you can trade the new list of pay for play SPDR etfs among a few others.

Regards,
John

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by airelleofmusic » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:59 pm

Many thanks John
LBYM and enjoy life ! Thanks BH !

Mardoc01
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Mardoc01 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:01 pm

Actually if I'm not mistaken. I think u can trade the spdr etfs right now commission free. It's just vanguard goes bye bye nov 21 ?

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by John Laurens » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:08 pm

Mardoc01 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:01 pm
Actually if I'm not mistaken. I think u can trade the spdr etfs right now commission free. It's just vanguard goes bye bye nov 21 ?
My mistake. You are correct.

Regards,
John

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by triceratop » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:48 pm

For what it's worth, I think this is excellent news for Vanguard shareholders. It means Vanguard isn't willing to play that game and pay brokers for access. Vanguard is a big enough player where they don't need to do that and it doesn't really serve the shareholders' interests.

I hope this translates into incremental lower costs on Vanguard ETF shares that I use commission-free elsewhere, because that is in my interests as a shareholder.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by DaufuskieNate » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:05 pm

triceratop wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:48 pm
For what it's worth, I think this is excellent news for Vanguard shareholders. It means Vanguard isn't willing to play that game and pay brokers for access. Vanguard is a big enough player where they don't need to do that and it doesn't really serve the shareholders' interests.

I hope this translates into incremental lower costs on Vanguard ETF shares that I use commission-free elsewhere, because that is in my interests as a shareholder.
Also for what it's worth, if you own TSM you are also a shareholder of TD Ameritrade. Funny, right?? :D

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by EvelynTroy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:55 pm

I trade very little couple times a year - just the principal of TDA dropping the commission free etf's. I hold 3 Vanguard ETFS plus 2 DFA Funds and 1 Vanguard Fund - the DFA and Vanguard Fund are in taxable acct. with large capital gains.

I had spoken with Schwab - liked their response. But decided I'll ask TDA if they can match the competition offering.

I phoned TDA - got irritated because the rep couldn't give me a straight answer on if they could offer incentive(s) to remain with TDA because the competition was offering commission free trades on the Vanguard ETF's and would sell partial or all shares of DFA Funds that I held. And $100 bonus for being new account holder.
Needed to speak with another person - ok I'll speak to them, then dawned on me he was going to switch me to my local office representative. The line was he can "guide" you on your portfolio and give advice on what would be the best plan."

No, I don't need any guidance, don't want to buy anything, just straight answer. As predicted gave me the lipstick on a pig reply, "we've really improved our ETF offering to meet customer demand."
Not interested in any of those ETF's, etc.
He told me I could have free trades on any ETF's and Funds - but I would need to call him first before I made any trades so he could approve it in the account.

Just left it open ended and thanked him. I really don't want to call him first or at all - its a step thats first inconvenient, and second an opportunity to get me on the phone to try and sell some product I'm not interested in. I told him it was an odd thing to do - just code my account for the free trades, said that wasn't the way it worked.

So I'm thinking on whether to remain at TDA or move to Schwab.
Evelyn

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by triceratop » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:33 pm

EvelynTroy wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:55 pm
I trade very little couple times a year - just the principal of TDA dropping the commission free etf's. I hold 3 Vanguard ETFS plus 2 DFA Funds and 1 Vanguard Fund - the DFA and Vanguard Fund are in taxable acct. with large capital gains.

I had spoken with Schwab - liked their response. But decided I'll ask TDA if they can match the competition offering.

I phoned TDA - got irritated because the rep couldn't give me a straight answer on if they could offer incentive(s) to remain with TDA because the competition was offering commission free trades on the Vanguard ETF's and would sell partial or all shares of DFA Funds that I held. And $100 bonus for being new account holder.
Needed to speak with another person - ok I'll speak to them, then dawned on me he was going to switch me to my local office representative. The line was he can "guide" you on your portfolio and give advice on what would be the best plan."

No, I don't need any guidance, don't want to buy anything, just straight answer. As predicted gave me the lipstick on a pig reply, "we've really improved our ETF offering to meet customer demand."
Not interested in any of those ETF's, etc.
He told me I could have free trades on any ETF's and Funds - but I would need to call him first before I made any trades so he could approve it in the account.

Just left it open ended and thanked him. I really don't want to call him first or at all - its a step thats first inconvenient, and second an opportunity to get me on the phone to try and sell some product I'm not interested in. I told him it was an odd thing to do - just code my account for the free trades, said that wasn't the way it worked.

So I'm thinking on whether to remain at TDA or move to Schwab.
Evelyn
Have you looked at Merrill Edge? (Schwab is fine too! I use both)
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:33 pm

People worry too much about the "principle". Things change. Prices go up. They didn't have to offer them in the first place.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by EvelynTroy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:21 am

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:33 pm
People worry too much about the "principle". Things change. Prices go up. They didn't have to offer them in the first place.
Mr. Lemongrab - I'm not worrying about the "principle"
You're right TD didn't have to offer those free ETF's in the first place, but I didn't have to place my investments with them in the first place either - they wanted my business - yes things change, and I may be served better elsewhere. Perhaps "principle" was the wrong word. Probably should have said, "things have changed at TDA - I'm shopping for a different brokerage."

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by EvelynTroy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:24 am

triceratop wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:33 pm
EvelynTroy wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:55 pm
I trade very little couple times a year - just the principal of TDA dropping the commission free etf's. I hold 3 Vanguard ETFS plus 2 DFA Funds and 1 Vanguard Fund - the DFA and Vanguard Fund are in taxable acct. with large capital gains.

I had spoken with Schwab - liked their response. But decided I'll ask TDA if they can match the competition offering.

I phoned TDA - got irritated because the rep couldn't give me a straight answer on if they could offer incentive(s) to remain with TDA because the competition was offering commission free trades on the Vanguard ETF's and would sell partial or all shares of DFA Funds that I held. And $100 bonus for being new account holder.
Needed to speak with another person - ok I'll speak to them, then dawned on me he was going to switch me to my local office representative. The line was he can "guide" you on your portfolio and give advice on what would be the best plan."

No, I don't need any guidance, don't want to buy anything, just straight answer. As predicted gave me the lipstick on a pig reply, "we've really improved our ETF offering to meet customer demand."
Not interested in any of those ETF's, etc.
He told me I could have free trades on any ETF's and Funds - but I would need to call him first before I made any trades so he could approve it in the account.

Just left it open ended and thanked him. I really don't want to call him first or at all - its a step thats first inconvenient, and second an opportunity to get me on the phone to try and sell some product I'm not interested in. I told him it was an odd thing to do - just code my account for the free trades, said that wasn't the way it worked.

So I'm thinking on whether to remain at TDA or move to Schwab.
Evelyn
Have you looked at Merrill Edge? (Schwab is fine too! I use both)
Thanks for the heads up - I'll look at Merrill Edge as well.
Evelyn

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:27 am

EvelynTroy wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:21 am
Mr. Lemongrab - I'm not worrying about the "principle"
You're right TD didn't have to offer those free ETF's in the first place, but I didn't have to place my investments with them in the first place either - they wanted my business - yes things change, and I may be served better elsewhere. Perhaps "principle" was the wrong word. Probably should have said, "things have changed at TDA - I'm shopping for a different brokerage."
I never said or intended to imply that it's not a valid reason for changing. I was annoyed when Fidelity stopped their brokerage bonus program that's been going on for a long time. I don't attach any blame to them, as I don't know all what went into the business decision. I just won't use them going forward.

I used to recommend TDA for people looking for a permanent home, I will be less likely to do that now that they can't get Vanguard ETFs without commission. Or at least I'll mention that as a drawback.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by investor997 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:31 pm

Outside of Merrill Edge (potentially) and Vanguard themselves, is there anywhere else one can buy/sell Vanguard ETFs commission-free?

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by triceratop » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:33 pm

investor997 wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:31 pm
Outside of Merrill Edge (potentially) and Vanguard themselves, is there anywhere else one can buy/sell Vanguard ETFs commission-free?
You can usually persuade Schwab to give you a certain number of free trades per year for any ETFs/equities, if you transfer in assets and mention that you're considering the Merrill Edge offer in comparison to theirs. I recall the offer not being as generous as Merrill's, but if you like Schwab (and I love their customer service) then it's a fine choice.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by B4Xt3r » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:07 am

Correct me if I am wrong, but can't you do a once per year "in-kind" transfer to another HSA? (My HSA is invested in TDA.)

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by lostdog » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:41 am

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidmarot ... 0c69837b63

"In other words, TD Ameritrade is now enforcing a pay-to-play for their so-called commission-free exchange-traded funds. They are willing to forego their $6.95 trading commission in favor of remuneration directly from the ETF vendors. Because Vanguard refuses to pay such money to custodians, they are no longer being allowed to play."

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by deltaneutral83 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:24 am

kehyler wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:07 am
Correct me if I am wrong, but can't you do a once per year "in-kind" transfer to another HSA? (My HSA is invested in TDA.)
In a tax advantaged account, especially as small as an HSA, I'd just swap out your Vanguard ETF for the State Street comparable. I did this last week. No big deal. You also may not find a better independent HSA than what TDA offers through HSA Bank. $3 a month.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by jhfenton » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:29 am

kehyler wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:07 am
Correct me if I am wrong, but can't you do a once per year "in-kind" transfer to another HSA? (My HSA is invested in TDA.)
In-kind transfers (or any trustee-to-trustee transfers) are not limited to one per year.

Cash-in-hand rollovers (passing through your bank account) are limited to one per year.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:36 am

Once the dust settled, our family did this. My son sold his 1 share of VTI in his Roth, added the free cash and bought 5 shares of SPTM. It made no sense to incur a future $7 trade fee on under $200 in account value, so that'll sit where it is.

My taxable and wife's taxable have withdrawn all cash generated from dividends, ACH'd to our checking accounts. We'll continue to hold VTI in place until at least they hit the one year point so gains are long term. If we need the money (tuition, most likely), then we'll sell all and take the one time $7 hit.

On the investing side, any new money will go into our Schwab taxable accounts. This is where TDA loses. They aren't going to see new money from us. I know....we're small potatoes. But I'm sure others think the same. An alternate is to move the VTI to Vanguard or Merrill Edge but I'm not overly impressed by either to have to deal with. BoA is the Evil Empire in my mind, so for $7, I'll stay where I am.
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by ChicagoSparty » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:16 pm

Does anyone know if dividend reinvestment counts towards the 30 day window of not selling of Vanguard ETFs without paying the fee? I am leaning towards selling my Vangaurd Etfs (non taxable accounts) and buying the State Street ETFs.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads

Post by MotoTrojan » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:32 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:47 pm
I have heard nothing of this and actually just bought some more VTI yesterday in my TDA account (a very small amount). If they drop VTI (the only thing I buy there) as free, I'll wait for all my investments to become long term, sell all but one share and put all the money in Schwab. TDA never calls me but it's a small account for me.
You should be able to do an in-kind transfer and save yourself some taxes.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by asif408 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:36 pm

ChicagoSparty wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:16 pm
Does anyone know if dividend reinvestment counts towards the 30 day window of not selling of Vanguard ETFs without paying the fee? I am leaning towards selling my Vangaurd Etfs (non taxable accounts) and buying the State Street ETFs.
They don't.

JustinR
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by JustinR » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:33 pm

So the new date is Jan 19 to sell your vg funds?

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Ragnoth » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:24 pm

JustinR wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:33 pm
So the new date is Jan 19 to sell your vg funds?
The extension is only for institutional investors. Individual investors need to sell by Nov. 20th to avoid the fees.

If you really want to try holding on past November, you are free to call TD Ameritrade customer service and see if they will cut you a deal.

airelleofmusic
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by airelleofmusic » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:08 am

Still so confused with this new list... Do you know if SPDW, SPEM, SPLG are liquid enough now to trade in a decent amount (+/- 100k) ?
LBYM and enjoy life ! Thanks BH !

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by indexfundfan » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:33 am

airelleofmusic wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:08 am
Still so confused with this new list... Do you know if SPDW, SPEM, SPLG are liquid enough now to trade in a decent amount (+/- 100k) ?
Currently, I don't recommend trading in blocks of 100k. I would limit each block to be at most 10k or so.
Nevertheless, I believe the situation should improve once the SPDR ETFs gain assets. Give it another 6 months to see.
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by jhfenton » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:34 am

airelleofmusic wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:08 am
Still so confused with this new list... Do you know if SPDW, SPEM, SPLG are liquid enough now to trade in a decent amount (+/- 100k) ?
$100,000? Sure. You could trade $100,000 in any of them just fine. I might split it into two or three trades depending on the fund, but markets are being made for them with smaller spreads and more capacity than their volume alone would suggest.

100,000 shares? I agree with indexfundfan. The volume isn't there for a quick trade of 100,000 shares. I'd call and see if they can arrange a block trade for you. If not, I'd split it into numerous blocks and spread it out, especially on the international or small cap funds.

airelleofmusic
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by airelleofmusic » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:03 pm

Sorry for the misunderstanding I wanted to say 100k$ and not 100k shares. Thanks for your answers.
LBYM and enjoy life ! Thanks BH !

Raabe34
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Raabe34 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:45 pm

follow

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by jhfenton » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:28 pm

airelleofmusic wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:03 pm
Sorry for the misunderstanding I wanted to say 100k$ and not 100k shares. Thanks for your answers.
I assumed that you meant $100K, because few of us have the millions to invest in a single ETF in a single account that 100,000 shares would require. :beer

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by indexfundfan » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:47 pm

I think this move by TDA/SSGA could have a silver lining. I believe the AUM for the new SPDR Portfolio funds would grow significantly, and this would give us more choices of ETF TLH partners.
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serbeer
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by serbeer » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:41 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:47 pm
I think this move by TDA/SSGA could have a silver lining. I believe the AUM for the new SPDR Portfolio funds would grow significantly, and this would give us more choices of ETF TLH partners.
Which partners? SPDR would be the only one comission-free, so you will not be able to not exchange into anything else comission-free.
With current set, I have TLH pairs which are both comission free, I posted them earlier in this thread.

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