Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

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danaht
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by danaht » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:59 pm

deltaneutral83 wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:39 pm
I do not see any VNQ substitute.
Here is the soon to be commission free replacement for VNQ: USRT
The iShares Core U.S. REIT ETF has an expense ratio of .08% and it also appears to be a great substitute for VNQ.

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triceratop
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by triceratop » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:04 pm

Ragnoth wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:09 pm
This is a giant pain my neck more than anything else.

I use commission-free ETF's at TDA for my retirement and taxable accounts, mostly because my 401k provider does self-directed portfolios there, and its easy to see aggregate percentages across all accounts. (In response to some questions above, you can unwind the vanguard positions without a fee until November 20, and if you sign up for DRIP at TDA, there is no transaction fee on dividend reinvestment and it will purchase fractional shares).

I run something a little more complicated than a vanilla 3-fund (yes, I know, I'm bad) but it looks like there are iShares and SPDR funds that can replace everything I use at a somewhat similar expense ratio:

Total Stock Market (US) (40% of portfolio)
VTI 0.04 -> SPTM 0.03

Total Bond Market (20% of portfolio)
BND 0.05 -> SPAB 0.04

Developed Markets Ex US (15% of portfolio)
VEA 0.07 -> SPDW 0.05

Emerging Markets (5% of portfolio)
VWO 0.14 -> SPEM 0.11

Reit (10% of portfolio)
VNQ 0.12 -> USRT 0.08

Small Cap Value (10% of portfolio)
VBR 0.07 -> SLYV 0.15

That said, my big complaints are:
1) Some of these (e.g., USRT v. VNQ) have historically under-performed the comparable Vanguard fund over a ~5-10 year period.
2) Switching these around will create a taxable event... leaning me towards simply moving the taxable account over to Vanguard. (Also, let me know if anybody has experience with ML, I heard they give you a number of free trades per month if you have more than $50k).
3) If you want emerging market exposure, you have to use both SPDW and SPEM. They don't have a true "total international" fund similar to VEU as far as I can tell.
4) There are hundreds of new funds to sift through, but almost all of them are high-fee actively managed junk.

For those who are curious, I think this is more or less the list of equivalent funds:

Core Portfolio:
VTI 0.04 -> SPTM 0.03
BND 0.05 -> SPAB 0.04
VEA 0.07 -> SPDW 0.05

Slice and Dice Nonsense:
VWO 0.14 -> SPEM 0.11
VNQ 0.12 -> USRT 0.08
VBR 0.07 -> SLYV 0.15
VO 0.06 -> SPMD 0.05
VB 0.06 -> SPSM 0.05
VTV 0.06 -> SPYV 0.04
VOE 0.07 -> MDYV 0.15
VTIP 0.07 -> STIP 0.06
I use Merrill Edge as do a number of Bogleheads, most prominently Earl Lemongrab. He has a thread on brokerage bonuses and free trades you should check out. I've seen only one or two complaints about Merrill Edge. I can confirm you receive 30 free equity trades per month with an asset level of $50k (after 3 months, but they give you free trades when you sign up to hold out over until you qualify).
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

xerxes101
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by xerxes101 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:41 pm

All Vanguard ETFs will be excluded from TD's list of commission-free ETFs effective 10/21/2017... :annoyed

denovo
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by denovo » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:54 pm

triceratop wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:04 pm


I use Merrill Edge as do a number of Bogleheads, most prominently Earl Lemongrab. He has a thread on brokerage bonuses and free trades you should check out. I've seen only one or two complaints about Merrill Edge. I can confirm you receive 30 free equity trades per month with an asset level of $50k (after 3 months, but they give you free trades when you sign up to hold out over until you qualify).
Merrill Edge's user interface is terrible. Their trading platform is poorer than TD's. They don't offer paper statements. They make you wait 14 weeks after opening up the account to get cash bonuses. TD would give it to you immediately.

danaht
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by danaht » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:08 pm

Ragnoth wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:09 pm
..
That said, my big complaints are:
1) Some of these (e.g., USRT v. VNQ) have historically under-performed the comparable Vanguard fund over a ~5-10 year period.
..
I think USRT will start outperforming VNQ soon.
reason: Vanguard is changing VNQ's index to include infrastructure REITs like AMT (American Tower). In my opinion, this is a really bad time to include AMT and other specialty REITs because these specific REITs have gone up dramatically in the past 12 months. To include these high priced REITs - Vanguard will probably end up selling some of the REITs that have gone down this year (ie SPG - Simon Property Group). This effectively is buying high, and selling low - not a good thing to do! I think this would be a good time for me to switch VNQ with USRT.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by stlutz » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:10 pm

Because of Tax-loss harvesting and rebalancing, a Boglehead with a simple portfolio of no more than 6-7 funds can easily make about 20 trades a year which comes out to like $140.
I don't want to pick on this post in particular, but at some point trades are cheap enough to being close to free. At Fidelity 20 trades would be $100. For me, if I'm much happier with the service at Firm A than at Firm B, I have no issue with paying $100/yr. for that. When trades were $20 a piece, that calculation was different [for me]. I'm also in the camp that I wish VG would just raise all of their ERs by .01% if it meant that they could fix their service and technology issues.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by zeugmite » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:10 pm

denovo wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:54 pm
They make you wait 14 weeks after opening up the account to get cash bonuses. TD would give it to you immediately.
Why does this matter? You'll have to hold longer than that to keep it.

denovo
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by denovo » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:29 pm

zeugmite wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:10 pm
denovo wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:54 pm
They make you wait 14 weeks after opening up the account to get cash bonuses. TD would give it to you immediately.
Why does this matter? You'll have to hold longer than that to keep it.
I don't think so.

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triceratop
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by triceratop » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:31 pm

denovo wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:29 pm
zeugmite wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:10 pm
denovo wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:54 pm
They make you wait 14 weeks after opening up the account to get cash bonuses. TD would give it to you immediately.
Why does this matter? You'll have to hold longer than that to keep it.
I don't think so.
No you're mistaken. The assets must be there for 180 days I believe.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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jhfenton
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads

Post by jhfenton » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:31 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:30 pm
nps wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:38 pm
Has anyone gotten free trades from TD like this to use indefinitely, and for HSAs specifically? I think this may not work because (1) as far as I can tell any free trades given from TD have time limits associated with using them, and (2) in the case of HSAs, giving free trades would be considered a tax-advantaged contribution so TD won't offer them for those accounts.
I've received free trades from TD in the past in IRAs. Waiving commissions, even transfer bonuses, are not considered contributions. A waived commission is just a fee you are not charged. A transfer bonus is treated as earnings inside the account.

In this case, though, TD declined my initial request yesterday for free trades/bonuses with respect to my new HSA and hasn't responded to my polite follow-up request. They hinted at not being able to pay bonuses or offer free trades, but if they don't it is a choice, not something they are prohibited from doing.

When we were long-term customers with six-figure account balances, I had no trouble getting a few free trades now and then. At the moment, I have one HSA account with a balance of $0. (It'll be $45,xxx tomorrow.)
I got a response back from TDA this afternoon. As a “one-time courtesy” they gave me 3 free trades in my new HSA good for 60 days, which is basically what I asked for.

I’m going to buy a non-commission-free ETF and set it up with DRIP. I’m going to use a commission-free ETF for periodic investments, and in a year I’m going to ask for a couple more free trades. We’ll see how that goes then. The stakes are low. :beer

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tooluser
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by tooluser » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:45 pm

I just happen to be in the middle of trying to transfer some ETFs (Vanguard and iShares) from TD Ameritrade to a new Merrill Edge account.

My impression so far is that ME is incompetent, though I am reserving final judgment on that. Several trivial mistakes on their part (e.g. two typos they made when setting up the account) are preventing me from transferring anything into the account. They are not quick or reliable at working these simple things through.

I have been with TDA since their predecessor bought Datek Online. The only mistake they have ever made is having to restate my trivially simple IRS 1099 form three times a number of years ago (including once after 15 April :x ).

My experiences highlight to me that I want my holdings at 2-3 companies, so as not to completely lose access when (not if) they make mistakes.

As for the new ETF choices at TDA, each investor must do what is right for them. There are a wide range of viable strategies in this thread. Love it!
Learn economical motion of delivery from a variety of angles, then lengthen the distance gradually. -- Bruce Lee

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by ksleo » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:06 pm

Haven't seen anyone else mention it so far, so I'll post this:

Personally I'm a Total World Stock investor (VT) and the new equivalent seems to be ACWI. The expense ratio is higher, but the I guess that's what Total World investors are stuck with now.

This is the fund synopsis:

"The Fund seeks investment results that correspond generally to the price and yield performance, before fees and expenses, of the MSCI All Country World Index. The Funds seeks to measure the combined equity market performance of developed and emerging markets countries."
Actions have consequences.

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whodidntante
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by whodidntante » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:32 pm

We all knew the list of commission free ETFs was subject to change. We also knew that vanguard doesn't pay to play. It's a business decision by TDA. Now feel free to make your own business decision.

Hastibe
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Hastibe » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:12 am

I've been surprised that more people who are transferring out of TDA (or are thinking about it) aren't just transferring their accounts to Vanguard (though I understand there are some account type limitations and that they aren't an option for foreign investors).

If you have only taxable and IRA accounts at TDA (and aren't a foreign investor), what are the drawbacks to transferring the accounts in-kind to Vanguard? Is Vanguard's online platform really that bad for even just re-balancing a few times a year?

...I feel like I'm missing something!

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TropikThunder » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:22 am

Hastibe wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:12 am
I've been surprised that more people who are transferring out of TDA (or are thinking about it) aren't just transferring their accounts to Vanguard (though I understand there are some account type limitations and that they aren't an option for foreign investors).

If you have only taxable and IRA accounts at TDA (and aren't a foreign investor), what are the drawbacks to transferring the accounts in-kind to Vanguard? Is Vanguard's online platform really that bad for even just re-balancing a few times a year?

...I feel like I'm missing something!
Vanguard doesn't have every account type where people hold their ETFs (for example, I hold BIV in my HSA but Vanguard doesn't have HSAs).

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TropikThunder » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:35 am

It seems the consensus equivalent to VTI is SPTM (SPDR Portfolio Total Market), which tracks the Russell 3000. The prior version was THRK, but it seems to have vanished unless I'm doing something wrong in searches. The switch occurred on Monday the 16th but now Portfolio Visualizer says "THRK" is an invalid ticker, NASDAQ shows no price history, and the M* THRK page crashes. Has the interwebs basically done a find-and-replace to change references to THRK in to SPTM?

ETA: I did notice something neat, THRK closed at $197.21 on Friday Oct 13. SPTM opened at $31.70 on Monday Oct 16. The did a ~6:1 split to lower the NAV (maybe to help smaller trades or for psychological reasons). In any case, if I decide to use SPTM in my HSA this will help reduce cash drag by not having to wait for $197 in cash to accumulate (company contributes $50 per month).

Zach
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Re: TD Ameritrade dropping Vanguard from commission-free ETFs

Post by Zach » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:01 am

runner3081 wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:47 pm
drg02b wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:49 am
Looks like the SPDR Funds are the best at matching Vanguard indexing...

VTI --> SPTM
BND --> SPAB
VEU --> SPDW

They all technically beat Vanguard expense ratios too.
Have my HSA there with a tiny amount, $20K.

Ended up doing this today:
BND to SPAB
VTI to SPTM
VBR to SPSM

The only VG fund I didn't dump there was VDE (though I don't see this on the current list of free ETF's, odd). The energy alternatives had very high fees in comparison. Will just pay the commission in 20 years when I cash out :)
So is it smart to make the switch immediately? I assume we don't want to wait after the implementation date or else we'd get hit with a load fee. I was planning on holding onto my VTI until November 20.

Ragnoth
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Ragnoth » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:57 am

I will have to switch at least my 401k funds.

I plan to wait a couple weeks and see how it goes before making a move.

Some of the new funds look very thinly traded, and I have no idea how the NAV tracking will be during the switch over. It's unlikely anything interesting will happen, but I wouldn't be queuing up market orders right at tomorrow's market open.

denovo
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by denovo » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:18 am

triceratop wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:31 pm
denovo wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:29 pm
zeugmite wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:10 pm
denovo wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:54 pm
They make you wait 14 weeks after opening up the account to get cash bonuses. TD would give it to you immediately.
Why does this matter? You'll have to hold longer than that to keep it.
I don't think so.
No you're mistaken. The assets must be there for 180 days I believe.
https://www.merrilledge.com/cmaoffer

I checked the fine print. You are under no obligation after 90 days.

nps
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads

Post by nps » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:35 am

jhfenton wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:31 pm
I got a response back from TDA this afternoon. As a “one-time courtesy” they gave me 3 free trades in my new HSA good for 60 days, which is basically what I asked for.

I’m going to buy a non-commission-free ETF and set it up with DRIP. I’m going to use a commission-free ETF for periodic investments, and in a year I’m going to ask for a couple more free trades. We’ll see how that goes then. The stakes are low. :beer
That's good news. Maybe they have changed their tune on free trades in HSAs after customer reaction to the new list this week. I could not get these in the past.

michaeljc70
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:20 am

Hastibe wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:12 am
I've been surprised that more people who are transferring out of TDA (or are thinking about it) aren't just transferring their accounts to Vanguard (though I understand there are some account type limitations and that they aren't an option for foreign investors).

If you have only taxable and IRA accounts at TDA (and aren't a foreign investor), what are the drawbacks to transferring the accounts in-kind to Vanguard? Is Vanguard's online platform really that bad for even just re-balancing a few times a year?

...I feel like I'm missing something!
In my case, I transferred to TDA to get a $1200 bonus this year and cannot transfer out or they may claw it back according to the terms.

Another thing I noticed is on a taxable account at TDA you can get a debit card with ATM fee reimbursement which Vanguard does not have.

dsmclone
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by dsmclone » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:39 am

Anyone seeing an alternative to VIG? Vanguard Dividend Appreciation ETF

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:44 am

Hastibe wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:12 am
I've been surprised that more people who are transferring out of TDA (or are thinking about it) aren't just transferring their accounts to Vanguard (though I understand there are some account type limitations and that they aren't an option for foreign investors).

If you have only taxable and IRA accounts at TDA (and aren't a foreign investor), what are the drawbacks to transferring the accounts in-kind to Vanguard? Is Vanguard's online platform really that bad for even just re-balancing a few times a year?

...I feel like I'm missing something!
My TDA account is taxable and as I get a bit of spare money, I add it to the account and buy a few shares of VTI. Honestly, I would not trust that Vanguard wouldn't screw something up. I have a tIRA at Vanguard with 1 fund that was transferred from Fidelity exactly once. I do nothing with it. It will sit there until I am ready to take it as a lump sum. Even making this simple transfer took 2 snail mailings because they "forgot" some forms in the first mailing. Really? Like they don't do this 100 times a day? I do trust that customer service at TDA, Schwab and Fidelity will get it right the first time and anything they need for a new account can be done online. I've said that TDA had the perfect setup.....Vanguard ETFs at a place that is open for more than just banker's hours. That's why I won't transfer to Vanguard.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

edge
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads

Post by edge » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:50 am

Why wouldn't you transfer in-kind? Does Schwab not let you do that with VG funds?
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:47 pm
I have heard nothing of this and actually just bought some more VTI yesterday in my TDA account (a very small amount). If they drop VTI (the only thing I buy there) as free, I'll wait for all my investments to become long term, sell all but one share and put all the money in Schwab. TDA never calls me but it's a small account for me.

deltaneutral83
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads

Post by deltaneutral83 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:56 am

nps wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:35 am


That's good news. Maybe they have changed their tune on free trades in HSAs after customer reaction to the new list this week. I could not get these in the past.
Neither could I and my account goes back to the National Discount brokers mid 90's days. I don't mind switching my REIT in my Roth and HSA, but my taxable with VTI/VEU/VSS is about to get moved. I tried calling in at 9:30 eastern last night and was on hold for over 20 minutes when I had to hang up.

ChicagoSparty
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by ChicagoSparty » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:51 am

Anyone planning to leave TD Ameritrade because of this? If you are planning to leave where will you be going?

I am annoyed as a VTI, VEU, and BND holder at TD, but I don't want to jump to any conclusions about my possibility of leaving before I think it through. I have been very happy with the service at TD for the last couple years with my Roth IRA, and I rolled my old 401k to an IRA at TD as well. If I left I would prefer Schwab or Fidelity, but at this point I just don't know.

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Re: TD Ameritrade dropping Vanguard from commission-free ETFs

Post by dalmatiandan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:20 am

drg02b wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:49 am
Looks like the SPDR Funds are the best at matching Vanguard indexing...

VTI --> SPTM
BND --> SPAB
VEU --> SPDW

They all technically beat Vanguard expense ratios too.
Thanks, drg02b.

What is your take on approximating VXUS (total international)? I have a 90%/10% split of VEU & VSS currently, as suggested by someone else on the board who made a nifty chart that I'm unable to locate at the moment. Is it as easy as 90% SPDW and 10% GWX (international developed small)? It seems that intnl emerging is underweight compared to the global market weighting, which brings us to the old VEA/VWO/VSS combo that was also discussed somewhere here previously.

Thanks!
Dan

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:21 am

ChicagoSparty wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:51 am
Anyone planning to leave TD Ameritrade because of this? If you are planning to leave where will you be going?
I will have to see what TDAmeritrade does for me.

First, I have a taxable account of ETFs that will leave the no-commission list that I simply don't make trades in. The dividends go to my checking account. I could leave that at TDAmeritrade with no issues. I could transfer in-kind anytime I wanted to sell and have done that transfer for bonuses in the past. Indeed, I have transferred some shares of a Vanguard ETF to Fidelity to collect a bonus. Fidelity would charge me a commission to sell those shares, but I would just transfer them in-kind to Vanguard or WellsTrade if/when I wanted to sell them.

Second, I don't contribute anymore to my TDAmeritrade HSA nor to my TDAmeritrade Roth IRA. I can set the investments to automatic dividend reinvestment and not have to think about them for a couple of decades.

Third, I prefer WellsTrade over Vanguard, Fidelity, and TDAmeritrade when it comes to trade executions and no-fee trading. I already have accounts at all of these brokers. I'd probably transfer in-kind to Fidelity for a bonus, to WellsTrade for the long-term, and to Vanguard if I didn't want to make any trades anymore in that particular account.

Fourth, I have no particular need to panic since I make so few trades at TDAmeritrade anyways. I can easily wait to see how all this shakes out.
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markbco
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by markbco » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:33 am

I have accounts at TDA, Fidelity, and Vanguard. I will probably keep my account at TDA, but won't add funds to it. Additional funds will probably go to Fidelity. While I haven't done a side by side analysis, I think the fee-free ETF offering at Fidelity seems to be better than these almost 300 fee-free ones at TDA.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TIAX » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:40 am

livesoft wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:21 am
Second, I don't contribute anymore to my TDAmeritrade HSA nor to my TDAmeritrade Roth IRA. I can set the investments to automatic dividend reinvestment and not have to think about them for a couple of decades.
And the way commission fees have been decreasing, we're likely to get to $0 commissions by then.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by 4fitness » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:49 am

For those planning on staying with TDA, what about just keeping all the Vanguard ETFs and purchasing the new commission free ETFs with new money vs. switching all current Vanguard ETFs over to the new commission free ETFs. Is the only reason to sell you current Vanguard ETF holdings and replace with the new commission free ETFs simplicity of reducing funds in the account?

My tIRA and rIRA are both on DRIP with the Vanguard ETFs and I won't be selling for quite a few years.

ChicagoSparty
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by ChicagoSparty » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:15 am

4fitness wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:49 am
For those planning on staying with TDA, what about just keeping all the Vanguard ETFs and purchasing the new commission free ETFs with new money vs. switching all current Vanguard ETFs over to the new commission free ETFs. Is the only reason to sell you current Vanguard ETF holdings and replace with the new commission free ETFs simplicity of reducing funds in the account?

My tIRA and rIRA are both on DRIP with the Vanguard ETFs and I won't be selling for quite a few years.
Definitely something to consider. My big thing is minimizing the amount of funds I have so not sure if I would go that route, but not a bad idea by any means.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Amy2017 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:22 am

4fitness wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:49 am
For those planning on staying with TDA, what about just keeping all the Vanguard ETFs and purchasing the new commission free ETFs with new money vs. switching all current Vanguard ETFs over to the new commission free ETFs. Is the only reason to sell you current Vanguard ETF holdings and replace with the new commission free ETFs simplicity of reducing funds in the account?
Yes. Simplicity is the reason that I want to replace all of our Vanguard ETFs with SPDR Portfolio ETFs in the next couple of weeks. We have more than 10 different retirement related accounts in TD Ameritrade, such as Solo 401K, Roth IRA, IRA, HSA, etc. All of them currently hold Vanguard commission free ETFs only. I don't really want to have so many accounts. But for various reasons, we must keep those accounts separately. It is already difficult enough to track each account. So less is better. I don't even bother to research anything other than SPDR Portfolio ETFs. I figure in the end that it should not make much difference since they all track similar index more or less.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by hightower » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:23 am

Well this is annoying. I have my 401k through TDA (as a self-directed account option from my employer's plan). The main reason I did this in the first place was so I could buy Vanguard ETFs. Now I'm going to have to decide if I should just pick another provider or stop using the self-directed option. I'll have to review what's available in my 401k list and see if I can get a similar, cheap mix.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by John Laurens » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:24 am

ChicagoSparty wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:51 am
Anyone planning to leave TD Ameritrade because of this? If you are planning to leave where will you be going?

I am annoyed as a VTI, VEU, and BND holder at TD, but I don't want to jump to any conclusions about my possibility of leaving before I think it through. I have been very happy with the service at TD for the last couple years with my Roth IRA, and I rolled my old 401k to an IRA at TD as well. If I left I would prefer Schwab or Fidelity, but at this point I just don't know.

Yes I will be leaving. I’ll be taking my brokerage, 2 solo 401ks, and 2 Roth IRAs to Fidelity. I will leave my HSA there (my HSA custodian uses them for brokerage). I’ll will make one trade of BND per year and pay the commission.

The overwhelming reason why I chose to do business with TDA was commission free trades of Vanguard ETFs (VTI, VEA, VWO, BND). If I were not their customer today, I would not choose them based on their new list. I make 40+ trades per year so it doesn’t make sense for me to pay $300+ in commissions.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by dsmclone » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:26 am

I'll complain about this change but it's highly unlikely that I'll move my accounts. Just too big of pain to move them and I'm sure there are things that I would hate about the new provider.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by 4fitness » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:27 am

ChicagoSparty wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:15 am
4fitness wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:49 am
For those planning on staying with TDA, what about just keeping all the Vanguard ETFs and purchasing the new commission free ETFs with new money vs. switching all current Vanguard ETFs over to the new commission free ETFs. Is the only reason to sell you current Vanguard ETF holdings and replace with the new commission free ETFs simplicity of reducing funds in the account?

My tIRA and rIRA are both on DRIP with the Vanguard ETFs and I won't be selling for quite a few years.
Definitely something to consider. My big thing is minimizing the amount of funds I have so not sure if I would go that route, but not a bad idea by any means.
Haven't officially made up my mind yet either. Will read, research, and see how this plays out over the next month up until Vanguard ETFs are not commission free to sell.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Majormajor78 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:29 am

ChicagoSparty wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:51 am
Anyone planning to leave TD Ameritrade because of this? If you are planning to leave where will you be going?
I've initiated a transfer to Vanguard.

Do I think the new ETF's will be as well runand as liquid as Vanguard's? No.
Do I think they will be "good enough?" Yes.
Do I think this is worth getting bent out of shape over? No.
Do I want to deal with this again in a few years? No.
If I keep my Vanguard ETF's at TDA will I lose money? Maybe $21-28 bucks a year in fees between new purchases and re balancing once per year.

I really don't have any compelling reason to either go or stay other than an opportunity to condense accounts (wife's Roth is at Vanguard) and simplify. I'm a big believer in benign neglect and typically don't take any manual action in my accounts except in January when I do my re-balancing and IRA deposits. Moving everything to Vanguard now will allow me to be slightly lazier in the future.
"Oh, M. le Comte, it is only a loss of money which I have sustained... nothing worth mentioning, I assure you."

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:32 am

denovo wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:54 pm
Merrill Edge's user interface is terrible.
In what way? I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary.
Their trading platform is poorer than TD's.
Again, you'd need to be specific. I don't make a lot of trades, but it seemed unexceptional to me.
They don't offer paper statements.

Ok, if that's important to you.
They make you wait 14 weeks after opening up the account to get cash bonuses. TD would give it to you immediately.
Even longer if you get the big bonus. But it's not that big of deal to me. The important thing to me is that they have bonuses and pay them.
This week's fortune cookie: "You will do well to expand your horizons." Ow. Passive-aggressive and vaguely ominous.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:35 am

John Laurens wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:24 am
Yes I will be leaving. I’ll be taking my brokerage, 2 solo 401ks, and 2 Roth IRAs to Fidelity. I will leave my HSA there (my HSA custodian uses them for brokerage). I’ll will make one trade of BND per year and pay the commission.

The overwhelming reason why I chose to do business with TDA was commission free trades of Vanguard ETFs (VTI, VEA, VWO, BND). If I were not their customer today, I would not choose them based on their new list. I make 40+ trades per year so it doesn’t make sense for me to pay $300+ in commissions.
So why move somewhere that also doesn't offer free trades on Vanguard ETFs? In your case I'd look at Merrill Edge as you probably qualify for the free trades there.
This week's fortune cookie: "You will do well to expand your horizons." Ow. Passive-aggressive and vaguely ominous.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by John Laurens » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:40 am

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:35 am
John Laurens wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:24 am
Yes I will be leaving. I’ll be taking my brokerage, 2 solo 401ks, and 2 Roth IRAs to Fidelity. I will leave my HSA there (my HSA custodian uses them for brokerage). I’ll will make one trade of BND per year and pay the commission.

The overwhelming reason why I chose to do business with TDA was commission free trades of Vanguard ETFs (VTI, VEA, VWO, BND). If I were not their customer today, I would not choose them based on their new list. I make 40+ trades per year so it doesn’t make sense for me to pay $300+ in commissions.
So why move somewhere that also doesn't offer free trades on Vanguard ETFs? In your case I'd look at Merrill Edge as you probably qualify for the free trades there.
The majority of my assets are within 2 solo 401ks. I prefer to consolidate accounts as much as possible, so I have to choose based on the best solo 401k provider.

Regards,
John

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by stinkycat » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:49 am

I find this somewhat annoying. I have a sizable TDA account, driven mainly by the vanguard commission free etf offerings. I also have accounts at fidelity and schwab. Right now, the latter two have better offerings, so new money is likely to go that way. I am debating whether to open a Vanguard account.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by asif408 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:11 am

Amazingly, four of the new "commission free" funds have ER's over 6% (and 2 over 10%)!: https://research.tdameritrade.com/grid/ ... onfree.asp

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by averageJoe576 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:24 am

John Laurens wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:40 am
Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:35 am
John Laurens wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:24 am
Yes I will be leaving. I’ll be taking my brokerage, 2 solo 401ks, and 2 Roth IRAs to Fidelity. I will leave my HSA there (my HSA custodian uses them for brokerage). I’ll will make one trade of BND per year and pay the commission.

The overwhelming reason why I chose to do business with TDA was commission free trades of Vanguard ETFs (VTI, VEA, VWO, BND). If I were not their customer today, I would not choose them based on their new list. I make 40+ trades per year so it doesn’t make sense for me to pay $300+ in commissions.
So why move somewhere that also doesn't offer free trades on Vanguard ETFs? In your case I'd look at Merrill Edge as you probably qualify for the free trades there.
The majority of my assets are within 2 solo 401ks. I prefer to consolidate accounts as much as possible, so I have to choose based on the best solo 401k provider.

Regards,
John
John, in the same boat as you (solo 401k, multiple purchases per month) but not sure if I'm leaving TD yet. May I ask, why Fidelity? Is it their MFs (if they allow "premium" ones for solo 401k, unlike VG) or the better iShares section?

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by ND Fan 1 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:28 am

livesoft wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:15 pm
delrinson wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:15 pm
I must confess, I'm a little surprised by the strength of many people's reaction to this.
But we know that folks hate a losing something more than they love getting something new. So removing something that folks already have is not commensurate with giving them something they don't have. VictoriaF can tell which behavioral finance term this is. We see this even with Vanguard trying to move folks from the mutual fund platform to the brokerage platform.

Also, I think that existing ETFs (say from Vanguard or whoever) will still have free DRIP if one has set that up.
That is what I plan on doing. I have 3 ESAs there with VTI and BND as my fund holdings. I will contribute the max $2000 in each at the beginning of the year, set up DRIPs and avoid paying any other trading fees.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by John Laurens » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:44 am

averageJoe576 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:24 am
John Laurens wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:40 am
Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:35 am
John Laurens wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:24 am
Yes I will be leaving. I’ll be taking my brokerage, 2 solo 401ks, and 2 Roth IRAs to Fidelity. I will leave my HSA there (my HSA custodian uses them for brokerage). I’ll will make one trade of BND per year and pay the commission.

The overwhelming reason why I chose to do business with TDA was commission free trades of Vanguard ETFs (VTI, VEA, VWO, BND). If I were not their customer today, I would not choose them based on their new list. I make 40+ trades per year so it doesn’t make sense for me to pay $300+ in commissions.
So why move somewhere that also doesn't offer free trades on Vanguard ETFs? In your case I'd look at Merrill Edge as you probably qualify for the free trades there.
The majority of my assets are within 2 solo 401ks. I prefer to consolidate accounts as much as possible, so I have to choose based on the best solo 401k provider.

Regards,
John
John, in the same boat as you (solo 401k, multiple purchases per month) but not sure if I'm leaving TD yet. May I ask, why Fidelity? Is it their MFs (if they allow "premium" ones for solo 401k, unlike VG) or the better iShares section?

The main reason for Fidelity. I was originally a Fidelity customer including solo 401ks. I switched to TDA specifically for commission free etfs from Vangauard. Now that inducement is gone I see no reason to stay. For the record, I loved TDAs service. Their combined position homepage was fantastic. Lists your top 8 positions by % of overall portfolio. This allowed me to log on and immediately know where to deploy cash in the etf that was underrepresented in my target AA.

So Fidelity because with a phone call they have reopened those dormant accounts. (I did have to refill some solo 401k paperwork manually but they are able to reopen the dormant account number).

Can’t use Vanguard because of their expensive solo 401k.

Regards,
John

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by tj » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:54 am

denovo wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:18 am
triceratop wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:31 pm
denovo wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:29 pm
zeugmite wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:10 pm
denovo wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:54 pm
They make you wait 14 weeks after opening up the account to get cash bonuses. TD would give it to you immediately.
Why does this matter? You'll have to hold longer than that to keep it.
I don't think so.
No you're mistaken. The assets must be there for 180 days I believe.
https://www.merrilledge.com/cmaoffer

I checked the fine print. You are under no obligation after 90 days.
Thats the standard offer. Thr larger offer is 180 days. I assune tda is the same in that the temporary larger promotion has a longer holding period.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:03 pm

tj wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:54 am
Thats the standard offer. Thr larger offer is 180 days. I assune tda is the same in that the temporary larger promotion has a longer holding period.
I believe TDA is one year regardless of the offer.
This week's fortune cookie: "You will do well to expand your horizons." Ow. Passive-aggressive and vaguely ominous.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by tj » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:34 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:03 pm
tj wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:54 am
Thats the standard offer. Thr larger offer is 180 days. I assune tda is the same in that the temporary larger promotion has a longer holding period.
I believe TDA is one year regardless of the offer.


I think you are right.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by investor997 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:57 pm

tj wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:54 am


Thats the standard offer. Thr larger offer is 180 days. I assune tda is the same in that the temporary larger promotion has a longer holding period.
What larger offer?

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