Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

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averageJoe576
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by averageJoe576 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:05 pm

John Laurens wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:44 am
averageJoe576 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:24 am
John, in the same boat as you (solo 401k, multiple purchases per month) but not sure if I'm leaving TD yet. May I ask, why Fidelity? Is it their MFs (if they allow "premium" ones for solo 401k, unlike VG) or the better iShares section?

The main reason for Fidelity. I was originally a Fidelity customer including solo 401ks. I switched to TDA specifically for commission free etfs from Vangauard. Now that inducement is gone I see no reason to stay. For the record, I loved TDAs service. Their combined position homepage was fantastic. Lists your top 8 positions by % of overall portfolio. This allowed me to log on and immediately know where to deploy cash in the etf that was underrepresented in my target AA.

So Fidelity because with a phone call they have reopened those dormant accounts. (I did have to refill some solo 401k paperwork manually but they are able to reopen the dormant account number).

Can’t use Vanguard because of their expensive solo 401k.

Regards,
John
Sorry to pester you further, but what is your plan there? Buy the ishare equivalents of the VG funds you were using?

One thing i am considering is moving everything to Vanguard, most to an IRA account, and just eat the extra 10bp on their investor class mutual funds for solo 401k throughout the year, and roll it into IRA periodically, so the bulk will always be in the ETF or Admiral shares in IRA. 10pts on 18k of 401k is only ~$10/yr. The main reason being that I like Vanguard's products and track record better than Blackrock's (ishares).
Last edited by averageJoe576 on Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

denovo
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by denovo » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:06 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:03 pm
tj wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:54 am
Thats the standard offer. Thr larger offer is 180 days. I assune tda is the same in that the temporary larger promotion has a longer holding period.
I believe TDA is one year regardless of the offer.

My complaint wasn't the holding period. TD issues you the bonus immediately after the deposit, while Edge makes you wait.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by tfb » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:19 pm

averageJoe576 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:05 pm
One thing i am considering is moving everything to Vanguard, most to an IRA account, and just eat the extra 10bp on their investor class mutual funds for solo 401k throughout the year, and roll it into IRA periodically, so the bulk will always be in the ETF or Admiral shares in IRA. 10pts on 18k of 401k is only ~$10/yr.
You can't do that unless you are already 59-1/2.
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

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Majormajor78
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Majormajor78 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:23 pm

asif408 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:11 am
Amazingly, four of the new "commission free" funds have ER's over 6% (and 2 over 10%)!: https://research.tdameritrade.com/grid/ ... onfree.asp
That is disgusting. A quick look at the two worst funds show that they have only 1 million and 2 million in assets respectively and shockingly have a trading volume of 0 the the day so far with market close less than an hour away.

I can't see a large number of these funds being economically viable and appear doomed to be closed. Td is going to have to start churning funds into and out of this list if it wants to keep the big marketable "300 Commission-Free ETF" list name.
"Oh, M. le Comte, it is only a loss of money which I have sustained... nothing worth mentioning, I assure you."

tj
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by tj » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:24 pm

investor997 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:57 pm
tj wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:54 am


Thats the standard offer. Thr larger offer is 180 days. I assune tda is the same in that the temporary larger promotion has a longer holding period.
What larger offer?
Its seasonal. Might not be active now.

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serbeer
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by serbeer » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:24 pm

livesoft wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:21 am
ChicagoSparty wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:51 am
Anyone planning to leave TD Ameritrade because of this? If you are planning to leave where will you be going?
I will have to see what TDAmeritrade does for me.

First, I have a taxable account of ETFs that will leave the no-commission list that I simply don't make trades in. The dividends go to my checking account. I could leave that at TDAmeritrade with no issues. I could transfer in-kind anytime I wanted to sell and have done that transfer for bonuses in the past. Indeed, I have transferred some shares of a Vanguard ETF to Fidelity to collect a bonus. Fidelity would charge me a commission to sell those shares, but I would just transfer them in-kind to Vanguard or WellsTrade if/when I wanted to sell them.

Second, I don't contribute anymore to my TDAmeritrade HSA nor to my TDAmeritrade Roth IRA. I can set the investments to automatic dividend reinvestment and not have to think about them for a couple of decades.

Third, I prefer WellsTrade over Vanguard, Fidelity, and TDAmeritrade when it comes to trade executions and no-fee trading. I already have accounts at all of these brokers. I'd probably transfer in-kind to Fidelity for a bonus, to WellsTrade for the long-term, and to Vanguard if I didn't want to make any trades anymore in that particular account.

Fourth, I have no particular need to panic since I make so few trades at TDAmeritrade anyways. I can easily wait to see how all this shakes out.
Were you grandfathered into comission-free WellsTrade trades PMA offer they no longer have?

asif408
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by asif408 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:33 pm

Majormajor78 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:23 pm
asif408 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:11 am
Amazingly, four of the new "commission free" funds have ER's over 6% (and 2 over 10%)!: https://research.tdameritrade.com/grid/ ... onfree.asp
I can't see a large number of these funds being economically viable and appear doomed to be closed. Td is going to have to start churning funds into and out of this list if it wants to keep the big marketable "300 Commission-Free ETF" list name.
I'm guessing the SPDR core funds are loss leaders, and the hope by TDA is probably to lure people in with those and get them to buy the more expensive, sexy factor funds they now have. Having more funds means they can afford to lose a few.

At least they have a clearance rack (e.g., the SPDR core funds), so I'll stick to that rack and continue on my merry way.

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serbeer
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by serbeer » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:40 pm

Ragnoth wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:09 pm
This is a giant pain my neck more than anything else.

I use commission-free ETF's at TDA for my retirement and taxable accounts, mostly because my 401k provider does self-directed portfolios there, and its easy to see aggregate percentages across all accounts. (In response to some questions above, you can unwind the vanguard positions without a fee until November 20, and if you sign up for DRIP at TDA, there is no transaction fee on dividend reinvestment and it will purchase fractional shares).

I run something a little more complicated than a vanilla 3-fund (yes, I know, I'm bad) but it looks like there are iShares and SPDR funds that can replace everything I use at a somewhat similar expense ratio:

Total Stock Market (US) (40% of portfolio)
VTI 0.04 -> SPTM 0.03

Total Bond Market (20% of portfolio)
BND 0.05 -> SPAB 0.04

Developed Markets Ex US (15% of portfolio)
VEA 0.07 -> SPDW 0.05

Emerging Markets (5% of portfolio)
VWO 0.14 -> SPEM 0.11

Reit (10% of portfolio)
VNQ 0.12 -> USRT 0.08

Small Cap Value (10% of portfolio)
VBR 0.07 -> SLYV 0.15

That said, my big complaints are:
1) Some of these (e.g., USRT v. VNQ) have historically under-performed the comparable Vanguard fund over a ~5-10 year period.
2) Switching these around will create a taxable event... leaning me towards simply moving the taxable account over to Vanguard. (Also, let me know if anybody has experience with ML, I heard they give you a number of free trades per month if you have more than $50k).
3) If you want emerging market exposure, you have to use both SPDW and SPEM. They don't have a true "total international" fund similar to VEU as far as I can tell.
4) There are hundreds of new funds to sift through, but almost all of them are high-fee actively managed junk.

For those who are curious, I think this is more or less the list of equivalent funds:

Core Portfolio:
VTI 0.04 -> SPTM 0.03
BND 0.05 -> SPAB 0.04
VEA 0.07 -> SPDW 0.05

Slice and Dice Nonsense:
VWO 0.14 -> SPEM 0.11
VNQ 0.12 -> USRT 0.08
VBR 0.07 -> SLYV 0.15
VO 0.06 -> SPMD 0.05
VB 0.06 -> SPSM 0.05
VTV 0.06 -> SPYV 0.04
VOE 0.07 -> MDYV 0.15
VTIP 0.07 -> STIP 0.06
Excellent analysis. For the record, here is the list of all comission-free ETFs available after November with ER of less than 0.2, sorted by ER (names were auto-pulled from Yahoo so may not be perfect, truncated, some manually edited too, ERs pulled from Morningstar yesterday):

Code: Select all

Ticker	ER	Name
SPAB	0.04	SPDR Lehman Aggregate Bond   
SPDW	0.04	SPDR S&P World ex-US  
ILTB	0.06	iShares Core 10  Year USD Bond 
SPTL	0.06	SPDR Lehman Long Term Treasury  
SPTS	0.06	SPDR Portfolio Short Term Treasury
STIP	0.06	iShares 0-5 Year TIPS Bond ETF
SPLB	0.07	SPDR Barclays Cap Long Term Credit
SPIB	0.07	SPDR Intermediate Corporate Bond    
SPSB	0.07	SPDR Barclays Cptl Shrt Term Corp Bd
USRT	0.08	iShares Core U.S. REIT ETF
IAGG	0.09	iShares International Aggregate
IEUR	0.1	iShares Core MSCI Europe ETF
IPAC	0.1	iShares Core MSCI Pacific ETF
ITE	0.1	SPDR Bloomberg Barclays Interme
SPLG	0.1	Spdr Dj Wilshire Large Cap Etf  
SPMD	0.1	SPDR Portfolio Mid Cap   
SPSM	0.1	SPDR Small Cap
SPTM	0.1	SPDR Dow Jones Total Market  
SPEM	0.11	SPDR S&P Emerging Markets 
AGGY	0.12	WisdomTree Barclays Yield Enhan
LGLV	0.12	SPDR SSGA US Large Cap Low Vola
SHAG	0.12	WisdomTree Barclays Yield Enhan
SMLV	0.12	SPDR SSGA US Small Cap Low Vola
SPYD	0.12	SPDR S&P 500® High Dividend
BIL	0.14	SPDR Bloomberg Barclays 1-3 Mon
REET	0.14	iShares Trust iShares Global RE
ESGU	0.15	iShares MSCI USA ESG Optimized 
FLRN	0.15	SPDR Bloomberg Barclays Investm
GOVT	0.15	iShares U.S. Treasury Bond ETF
IPE	0.15	SPDR Bloomberg Barclays TIPS ET
MDYG	0.15	SPDR S&P 400 Mid Cap Growth ETF
MDYV	0.15	SPDR S&P 400 Mid Cap Value ETF 
MTUM	0.15	iShares Edge MSCI USA Momentum 
QUAL	0.15	iShares Edge MSCI USA Quality F
QUS	0.15	SPDR MSCI USA StrategicFactors 
SLYG	0.15	SPDR S&P 600 Small Cap Growth E
SLYV	0.15	SPDR S&P 600 Small Cap Value ET
SPYG	0.15	SPDR S&P 500 Growth ETF
SPYV	0.15	SPDR S&P 500 Value ETF
TIPX	0.15	SPDR Bloomberg Barclays 1-10 Ye
USFR	0.15	WisdomTree Bloomberg Floating R
JPST	0.18	JPMorgan Ultra-Short Income ETF

runner3081
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Re: TD Ameritrade dropping Vanguard from commission-free ETFs

Post by runner3081 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:45 pm

Zach wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:01 am
runner3081 wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:47 pm
drg02b wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:49 am
Looks like the SPDR Funds are the best at matching Vanguard indexing...

VTI --> SPTM
BND --> SPAB
VEU --> SPDW

They all technically beat Vanguard expense ratios too.
Have my HSA there with a tiny amount, $20K.

Ended up doing this today:
BND to SPAB
VTI to SPTM
VBR to SPSM

The only VG fund I didn't dump there was VDE (though I don't see this on the current list of free ETF's, odd). The energy alternatives had very high fees in comparison. Will just pay the commission in 20 years when I cash out :)
So is it smart to make the switch immediately? I assume we don't want to wait after the implementation date or else we'd get hit with a load fee. I was planning on holding onto my VTI until November 20.
If I do it now, one less thing on my "to-do" list :)

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tarnation
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by tarnation » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:10 pm

I have a Brokerage window through 401(k) so can't move accounts and am still parsing through stuff to figure out the path forward. One thing I will have to revisit is the "Systematic Transaction Form for Mutual Funds". It allows you to set up periodic purchases to Mutual funds for no fee. I haven't looked at it in a while since there were so many good free ETFs, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
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livesoft
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:14 pm

serbeer wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:24 pm
Were you grandfathered into comission-free WellsTrade trades PMA offer they no longer have?
Yes, of course. I think for others a trade costs $2.95 if one has reasonable balances.
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John Laurens
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by John Laurens » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:53 pm

averageJoe576 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:05 pm
John Laurens wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:44 am
averageJoe576 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:24 am
John, in the same boat as you (solo 401k, multiple purchases per month) but not sure if I'm leaving TD yet. May I ask, why Fidelity? Is it their MFs (if they allow "premium" ones for solo 401k, unlike VG) or the better iShares section?

The main reason for Fidelity. I was originally a Fidelity customer including solo 401ks. I switched to TDA specifically for commission free etfs from Vangauard. Now that inducement is gone I see no reason to stay. For the record, I loved TDAs service. Their combined position homepage was fantastic. Lists your top 8 positions by % of overall portfolio. This allowed me to log on and immediately know where to deploy cash in the etf that was underrepresented in my target AA.

So Fidelity because with a phone call they have reopened those dormant accounts. (I did have to refill some solo 401k paperwork manually but they are able to reopen the dormant account number).

Can’t use Vanguard because of their expensive solo 401k.

Regards,
John
Sorry to pester you further, but what is your plan there? Buy the ishare equivalents of the VG funds you were using?

One thing i am considering is moving everything to Vanguard, most to an IRA account, and just eat the extra 10bp on their investor class mutual funds for solo 401k throughout the year, and roll it into IRA periodically, so the bulk will always be in the ETF or Admiral shares in IRA. 10pts on 18k of 401k is only ~$10/yr. The main reason being that I like Vanguard's products and track record better than Blackrock's (ishares).
No problem. I will use ITOT, IXUS, AGG.
I think Vanguard solo 401k is ok with TR or LS funds. That is the only way I would use them. You at least get automatic rebalancing as a value added service to investor share prices of the underlying funds.

Regards,
John

stlutz
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by stlutz » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:56 pm

I'm guessing the SPDR core funds are loss leaders
According to State Street, "Each one of these ETFs is profitable at the current prices. "

http://www.etf.com/sections/features-an ... fee-revamp

skylar
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads

Post by skylar » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:57 pm

skylar wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:37 pm
avalpert wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:31 pm
skylar wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:26 pm
Currently I have most of my HSA at TDA invested in the Vanguard Total Bond Market Index ETF (BND). Is there an equivalent to BND in the new ETF lineup? I took a glance and couldn't identify any based on name; the ones that seem sort of close also have exciting things in the name that turn me off ("enhanced", "hedged") when I really just want a totally boring total bond market fund.

If not, I guess I'll be hunting for another HSA provider and will be curious to hear what other people turn to.
SPAB (used to be BNDS) tracks the same index I believe, and now at a lower ER.
Thanks for the quick reply! I think SPAB could be an option, though do I need to be concerned about the much lower trading volume versus BND? I'm not an expert on ETFs but it seems like that could be an issue.

Another option I've discovered is my employer's HSA provider (HealthEquity) apparently now offers institutional shares of Vanguard mutual funds (not ETFs). When I started with HealthEquity, they had awful investments and I've just been transferring to HSA Bank/TDA a couple times a year, but maybe I don't have to do that anymore...
After doing some more research, I've determined that HealthEquity, despite that institutional fund access to Vanguard, is still a worse deal due to a 0.03% monthly asset fee. Sticking with HSABank/TDA is a better deal with its fixed fees, so I'll be exchanging BND for SPAB and seeing how it goes.

Thanks for the suggestion!

DaufuskieNate
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads

Post by DaufuskieNate » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:30 pm

skylar wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:57 pm

After doing some more research, I've determined that HealthEquity, despite that institutional fund access to Vanguard, is still a worse deal due to a 0.03% monthly asset fee. Sticking with HSABank/TDA is a better deal with its fixed fees, so I'll be exchanging BND for SPAB and seeing how it goes.
I am doing the same thing with my HSABank/TDA account. Only difference is I have swapped out VGSH for SPTS. Bid/Ask on SPTS was only $.01 when I traded.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by indexfundfan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:01 pm

stlutz wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:56 pm
According to State Street, "Each one of these ETFs is profitable at the current prices. "
If Vanguard is offering the ETFs "at cost", it makes me wonder if Vanguard is not as efficient as State Street or if State Street has a different system of cost accounting.

In any case, I like the clean naming of the new State Street Portfolio ETFs. Schwab's ETFs also have very clean names. Vanguard's ETF naming is all over the place, but this is partly because of legacy funds and the huge number of ETFs it carries.
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GridironGems
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by GridironGems » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:28 pm

Does TD Ameritrade have any Target Retirement Funds, or Life Strategy funds, or Wellington, or anything like that?

Amy2017
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Amy2017 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:52 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:01 pm
stlutz wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:56 pm
According to State Street, "Each one of these ETFs is profitable at the current prices. "
In any case, I like the clean naming of the new State Street Portfolio ETFs. Schwab's ETFs also have very clean names. Vanguard's ETF naming is all over the place, but this is partly because of legacy funds and the huge number of ETFs it carries.
I agree. I like the naming of the new SPDR Portfolio ETFs a lot. I have been struggling with those Vanguard's ETF names since day 1. So many funds have similar descriptions that it is really hard to pick one even in the same asset category. I genuinely wish Vanguard offers less ETFs because in the end I usually lost track of which ones I bought and have reached a conclusion that it may not matter either.

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tarnation
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by tarnation » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:15 pm

stlutz wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:56 pm
I'm guessing the SPDR core funds are loss leaders
According to State Street, "Each one of these ETFs is profitable at the current prices. "

http://www.etf.com/sections/features-an ... fee-revamp
Well i guess it is cheaper when you only buy the top of the market. Looks to me like SPDR TSM has roughly half the stocks of VG TSM and twice the market cap. :(
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by ChicagoSparty » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:18 pm

I wrote TDA yesterday about my displeasure and received my reply tonight. They did not offer any free trades to me but they did tell me "We continue to have a strong relationship with Vanguard. Indeed, Vanguard ETFs remain available to TD Ameritrade clients on a commission basis (recently reduced to $6.95)."

haha that makes me feel so much better...not

stlutz
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by stlutz » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:29 pm

If Vanguard is offering the ETFs "at cost", it makes me wonder if Vanguard is not as efficient as State Street or if State Street has a different system of cost accounting.
One thing with Vanguard is that their costs include the costs of running a brokerage, administering accounts, answering the phone etc. It's a huge operations. State Street and iShares don't have this. But yes, I'm sure there is plenty of fungibility of expenses. A different accountant could probably make them into money losers.

I just thought it was interesting that State Street said that they are making money on this. Schwab has said the same thing with their ETFs, BTW.

Raabe34
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Raabe34 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:06 pm

Anybody looked into what SPDR's do with security lending revenue yet?

stlutz
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by stlutz » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:16 pm

The lending revenue goes to the fund, not State Street.

Raabe34
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Raabe34 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:37 pm

stlutz wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:16 pm
The lending revenue goes to the fund, not State Street.
You might want to do a bit of research. What I can find is they are at 85% to the fund.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by drk » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:49 pm

stlutz wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:29 pm
If Vanguard is offering the ETFs "at cost", it makes me wonder if Vanguard is not as efficient as State Street or if State Street has a different system of cost accounting.
One thing with Vanguard is that their costs include the costs of running a brokerage, administering accounts, answering the phone etc. It's a huge operations. State Street and iShares don't have this. But yes, I'm sure there is plenty of fungibility of expenses. A different accountant could probably make them into money losers.

I just thought it was interesting that State Street said that they are making money on this. Schwab has said the same thing with their ETFs, BTW.
State Street is also using proprietary indices, which eliminates licensing costs.

stlutz
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by stlutz » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:56 pm

You might want to do a bit of research. What I can find is they are at 85% to the fund.
This is where I was looking (click on the "Efficiency" Tab):

http://www.etf.com/SPTM

However, the annual report disagrees with etf.com: "Proceeds collected by State Street on investment of cash collateral or any fee income are allocated as follows (after deduction of such other amounts payable to State Street under the terms of the securities lending agreement): 85% payable to the Fund, and 15% payable to State Street."

Good catch!

Longtermgrowth
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Longtermgrowth » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:35 am

For those here that have the option to transfer in kind, while either in a taxable account or tax advantaged, I see no negative to do so when there are options like Merrill Edge with a number of free trades (30 to 100 depending on assets) per month with 50k minimum... Just open a checking account with them to qualify for Preferred Rewards with the Merrill Edge account, while keeping the checking free of fees. I'm pretty happy with it, and from the looks of it, a number of other Bogleheads are as well.

For those looking to switch funds at TDA in tax advantaged accounts, without having to worry about the tax implications of doing so in taxable, that bid/ask spread on the new State Street funds is going to cost ya...

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jhfenton
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by jhfenton » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:12 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:01 pm
stlutz wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:56 pm
According to State Street, "Each one of these ETFs is profitable at the current prices. "
If Vanguard is offering the ETFs "at cost", it makes me wonder if Vanguard is not as efficient as State Street or if State Street has a different system of cost accounting.

In any case, I like the clean naming of the new State Street Portfolio ETFs. Schwab's ETFs also have very clean names. Vanguard's ETF naming is all over the place, but this is partly because of legacy funds and the huge number of ETFs it carries.
As someone else hinted at, I would guess the difference is due to the allocation of fixed costs to the fund. Vanguard allocates each fund a share of the overall fixed costs of Vanguard, not just the marginal costs of that fund. Someone has to pay those costs. As State Street looks at the Portfolio ETFs, each may very well be a net profit center on a marginal cost basis.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:09 am

investor997 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:57 pm
tj wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:54 am


Thats the standard offer. Thr larger offer is 180 days. I assune tda is the same in that the temporary larger promotion has a longer holding period.
What larger offer?
$1000 on a 200k transfer (other amounts similarly boosted). Comes around every now and then.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Majormajor78 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:19 am

GridironGems wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:28 pm
Does TD Ameritrade have any Target Retirement Funds, or Life Strategy funds, or Wellington, or anything like that?
On the ETF list there is are I Shares funds that are similar to the life strategy funds. AOA, AOK, AOM, AOR. There may be others hiding, I didn't study the list exhaustively.
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by goingup » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:40 am

Am I the only one that thinks this is kind of insidiously bad? I assume many folks migrated from Vanguard to TDA with their Vanguard ETFs to collect a bonus, and because it was free to buy/sell Vanguard ETFs there anyways.

Now that's changed. You'll have to pay fees to buy/sell Vanguard ETFs, so many folks will change to the ETFs that TDA actually makes money on. How can you not feel duped about that?

Sure, in business things change and prices change. It just seems as though this could have been the TDA business strategy all along. Not exactly bait and switch, but close. If you're an accumulator with a taxable account of Vanguard ETFs you may have to pay... say $50 to hundreds $$ more each year in fees. But you probably won't, because nobody wants to pay fees because they seem punitive. So you'll probably open NTF ETFs and queue up just as TDA knew you would! :annoyed

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by nps » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:48 am

Longtermgrowth wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:35 am
For those looking to switch funds at TDA in tax advantaged accounts, without having to worry about the tax implications of doing so in taxable, that bid/ask spread on the new State Street funds is going to cost ya...
All of them?

Current quote on SPTM is 31.73 bid, 31.74 ask, .01% premium

VTI is 131.31, 131.32, .02% premium

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:52 am

nps wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:48 am
All of them?

Current quote on SPTM is 31.73 bid, 31.74 ask, .01% premium

VTI is 131.31, 131.32, .02% premium
1 cent of 31.74 is 0.03% spread
1 cent of 131.32 is 0.008% spread

And yes, I know "premium" is something different from "bid/ask spread."

Anyways, one shouldn't pay the full spread.
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by John Laurens » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:01 am

goingup wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:40 am
Am I the only one that thinks this is kind of insidiously bad? I assume many folks migrated from Vanguard to TDA with their Vanguard ETFs to collect a bonus, and because it was free to buy/sell Vanguard ETFs there anyways.

Now that's changed. You'll have to pay fees to buy/sell Vanguard ETFs, so many folks will change to the ETFs that TDA actually makes money on. How can you not feel duped about that?

Sure, in business things change and prices change. It just seems as though this could have been the TDA business strategy all along. Not exactly bait and switch, but close. If you're an accumulator with a taxable account of Vanguard ETFs you may have to pay... say $50 to hundreds $$ more each year in fees. But you probably won't, because nobody wants to pay fees because they seem punitive. So you'll probably open NTF ETFs and queue up just as TDA knew you would! :annoyed
I received a call from TDA yesterday. Maybe my outbound transfer amount triggered something. Anyway the rep said that it was simply a business decision. I told him that by offering Vanguard ETFs commission free they induced new customers who were loyal to Vanguard and not necessarily to TDA. He didn’t deny that they would be receiving money from state street to offer their etfs. TDA’s customer service, trade execution, website/app are top notch. I would bet that Vanguard’s customer are homogenous in general. I gather that the overwhelming majority of TDA’s customers are traders that are highly profitable. The small percentage of boglehead types at TDA simply make zero profit. In fact, I probabaly cost them money. I understand their decision.

Regards,
John

EvelynTroy
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by EvelynTroy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:15 pm

My portfolio @ TD -
ETF’s - VEU, VTI in tIRA and VNQ in Roth IRA

Funds -
VMLUX - Vanguard Limited Tax Exempt Bond (0.09) very tiny amount of shares - Taxable acct
DFTCX DFA T.A. U.S. Core Equity 2 Portfolio Institutional Class (0.24) - Taxable acct.
DTMVX DFA Tax-Managed U.S. Targeted Value Portfolio (0.44) - Taxable acct.
Two large brokered CD’s @ TD in IRA acct.

I have no need to buy/sell very often, rebalancing. The DFA Funds have huge capital gains can’t sell.

I thought I would share my phone conversation with Schwab local branch this a.m.

They seem to be very accommodating - without being pushy. Didn't ask my last name for one thing.

They will code my acct. for no commissions on any buys and sells for etfs, funds, or stocks, 20 free trades a year. After a year he said he would just recode the account for 20 more.

They will remimburse for any charges that TD would charge for transfers out if there are any.

There are no fees for them to transfer my funds to new Schwab accounts.

No commission to sell all or partial shares of my DFA funds or the VMLUX Vanguard Bond Fund. Believe it or not TD charges $50 to buy or sell these funds because they are not on the Fund No-Commission list. Just verified on the phone. I pushed him on this because of having large account - no exceptions.
I know Vanguard charges $50 to sell these also.

I can also transfer those brokered CD's to Schwab.

As a new account person I would also get $100.

I see no downside to moving to Schwab - other than the time to go to the local office and set up the accounts.
No costs, no commissions, and all of my holdings under one firm. Of course no taxable events to do transfer in kind.
Like TD a local office I can go to if I need a real person for some reason. I could just continue with my Vanguard ETF's if I need/want to add shares.

Thats what I learned about Schwab - any thoughts?
Evelyn

ChicagoSparty
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by ChicagoSparty » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:23 pm

I am thinking about going to Charles Schwab/Fidelity and creating the three fund portfolio with their ETFs and leave TD Ameritrade.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by deltaneutral83 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:50 pm

If you've made a trade within two weeks but sell it and buy off the the new commission free lists, will they hit you with the short term fee or waive it for the next month until November 21 as people transition?

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jhfenton
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by jhfenton » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:17 pm

deltaneutral83 wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:50 pm
If you've made a trade within two weeks but sell it and buy off the the new commission free lists, will they hit you with the short term fee or waive it for the next month until November 21 as people transition?
I'm guessing the system will ding you for the short-term fee (now $13.90). I would wait until the 31st day and sell. The old ones are still on the list for long enough to get you past the 30-day window.

Ragnoth
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Ragnoth » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:17 pm

deltaneutral83 wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:50 pm
If you've made a trade within two weeks but sell it and buy off the the new commission free lists, will they hit you with the short term fee or waive it for the next month until November 21 as people transition?
The email from TDA says:
The new list will provide access to low-cost ETFs in the same asset classes that the current ETFs provide, along with several new asset classes. If you choose to replace any current position on the commission-free list with an ETF from the new list by November 20, 2017, you will not be charged commissions for either trade.
It's a little cryptic since I'm not sure how they can tell that you are reallocating funds or not (e.g., what if there is an extra $10 extra that you don't dump into new funds). In theory, there is enough time for you to simply wait till Nov 20 and sell without the short-term fee. But if you try doing anything else, I would call up TDA first and get somebody on record saying how this waiver of fees will work.

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auntie
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by auntie » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:45 pm

The nice man from TDA customer service just called me and asked if I'd read the email they sent a few days ago. I told him how unhappy I was, and he asked if it was because of Vanguard. I told him yes, and he told me about all the nice replacement funds they offer. He seemed surprised when I said they were mostly junk.

I waited for him to make me some sort of offer to get me to reconsider my thoughts of closing my 7 figure account, but no such luck. I don't know if he knew the size of my account or if he was (more likely) just phoning everyone on his list.

He said I could sell my Vanguard holdings now and exchange for other no commission funds. I said I didn't want to because of the taxes. He indicated that if I want to sell later I could contact my account person and tell them they were from my free purchases and they would be able to take off the commission for the sale. But I don't think I'll bother for just a few dollars.

I told him it wasn't so much about the money but the fact they offered me something and now they are taking it away.

I don't imagine they will call me back and make me an offer. I didn't actually say I was leaving, just that I was considering it.
High risk does not equal high reward. It equals high risk of no reward.

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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by ladders11 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:59 pm

goingup wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:40 am
Am I the only one that thinks this is kind of insidiously bad?
No, you're not! The old commission-free ETF list followed a central philosophy, that TDA delineated as follows:
  • “A better way to invest in ETFs”
  • “100+ commission-free ETFs from leading providers with Morningstar research and ratings and diverse investment strategies”
  • “Broad exposure to domestic and international indexes”
  • “Asset allocation and dollar-cost averaging with no commissions”
These claims were true, and aren’t true anymore. This isn’t just about Vanguard – they’ve also dropped iShares from the list, for example. But if you look at the old list they were core holdings, low-cost, and broad-based. The new list is totally different. You sense a “new sheriff” arrived. Certain changes are inconsistent (e.g. AGG and BND are dropped but IAGG is left) where the logic isn't transparent.

It's bad news for:
  • Newer customers who chose TDA specifically for any of their commission-free ETFs
  • Existing customers who chose any of the ETFs on the old list over commissioned alternatives
  • Future customers who will be duped by the funds on the new list
And changes made with only 30 days notice, why not more?

avalpert
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by avalpert » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:32 pm

ladders11 wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:59 pm
goingup wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:40 am
Am I the only one that thinks this is kind of insidiously bad?
No, you're not! The old commission-free ETF list followed a central philosophy, that TDA delineated as follows:
  • “A better way to invest in ETFs”
  • “100+ commission-free ETFs from leading providers with Morningstar research and ratings and diverse investment strategies”
  • “Broad exposure to domestic and international indexes”
  • “Asset allocation and dollar-cost averaging with no commissions”
These claims were true, and aren’t true anymore. This isn’t just about Vanguard – they’ve also dropped iShares from the list, for example. But if you look at the old list they were core holdings, low-cost, and broad-based. The new list is totally different. You sense a “new sheriff” arrived. Certain changes are inconsistent (e.g. AGG and BND are dropped but IAGG is left) where the logic isn't transparent.
This is just false - really it is wrong. The State Street portfolio funds are low-cost, broad-based direct replacements for the Vanguard and iShares funds that are being removed. There may not be lower cost replacements for every one removed, but for the broad areas there definitely are.

Honestly, this is good news for the industry - low cost is winning, everyone is trying to compete in the low-cost space - that is a very good thing.
And changes made with only 30 days notice, why not more?
Because there terms and conditions mandated 30 days notice - why should there be more?

John Laurens
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by John Laurens » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:04 pm

avalpert wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:32 pm
ladders11 wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:59 pm
goingup wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:40 am
Am I the only one that thinks this is kind of insidiously bad?
No, you're not! The old commission-free ETF list followed a central philosophy, that TDA delineated as follows:
  • “A better way to invest in ETFs”
  • “100+ commission-free ETFs from leading providers with Morningstar research and ratings and diverse investment strategies”
  • “Broad exposure to domestic and international indexes”
  • “Asset allocation and dollar-cost averaging with no commissions”
These claims were true, and aren’t true anymore. This isn’t just about Vanguard – they’ve also dropped iShares from the list, for example. But if you look at the old list they were core holdings, low-cost, and broad-based. The new list is totally different. You sense a “new sheriff” arrived. Certain changes are inconsistent (e.g. AGG and BND are dropped but IAGG is left) where the logic isn't transparent.
This is just false - really it is wrong. The State Street portfolio funds are low-cost, broad-based direct replacements for the Vanguard and iShares funds that are being removed. There may not be lower cost replacements for every one removed, but for the broad areas there definitely are.

Honestly, this is good news for the industry - low cost is winning, everyone is trying to compete in the low-cost space - that is a very good thing.
And changes made with only 30 days notice, why not more?
Because there terms and conditions mandated 30 days notice - why should there be more?
“Broad based direct replacements”. What total market index will the spdr funds be tracking?

Regards,
John

investor997
Posts: 175
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by investor997 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:12 pm

John Laurens wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:04 pm
“Broad based direct replacements”. What total market index will the spdr funds be tracking?

Regards,
John
https://us.spdrs.com/en/strategies/spdr ... folio-etfs

With respect to SPTM:
The SPDR Portfolio Total Stock Market ETF seeks to
provide investment results that, before fees and
expenses, correspond generallyto the total return
performance of the Russell 3000® Index
How comfortable are you with the use of the word "generally"?

This whole thing comes down to whether or not you're comfortable investing in the new State Street funds. If you are, you can keep your existing Vanguard ETFs and start buying the State Street funds instead and simply hold both. If you aren't, you can always buy them at Vanguard for free.

avalpert
Posts: 6313
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by avalpert » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:20 pm

John Laurens wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:04 pm
avalpert wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:32 pm
ladders11 wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:59 pm
goingup wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:40 am
Am I the only one that thinks this is kind of insidiously bad?
No, you're not! The old commission-free ETF list followed a central philosophy, that TDA delineated as follows:
  • “A better way to invest in ETFs”
  • “100+ commission-free ETFs from leading providers with Morningstar research and ratings and diverse investment strategies”
  • “Broad exposure to domestic and international indexes”
  • “Asset allocation and dollar-cost averaging with no commissions”
These claims were true, and aren’t true anymore. This isn’t just about Vanguard – they’ve also dropped iShares from the list, for example. But if you look at the old list they were core holdings, low-cost, and broad-based. The new list is totally different. You sense a “new sheriff” arrived. Certain changes are inconsistent (e.g. AGG and BND are dropped but IAGG is left) where the logic isn't transparent.
This is just false - really it is wrong. The State Street portfolio funds are low-cost, broad-based direct replacements for the Vanguard and iShares funds that are being removed. There may not be lower cost replacements for every one removed, but for the broad areas there definitely are.

Honestly, this is good news for the industry - low cost is winning, everyone is trying to compete in the low-cost space - that is a very good thing.
And changes made with only 30 days notice, why not more?
Because there terms and conditions mandated 30 days notice - why should there be more?
“Broad based direct replacements”. What total market index will the spdr funds be tracking?

Regards,
John
Which fund? Their US total market fund will be tracking the new SSGA Total Market Index that will be managed by Intercontinental Exchange. Their international broad funds track their respective S&P indices.

John Laurens
Posts: 297
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by John Laurens » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:22 pm

investor997 wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:12 pm
John Laurens wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:04 pm
“Broad based direct replacements”. What total market index will the spdr funds be tracking?

Regards,
John
https://us.spdrs.com/en/strategies/spdr ... folio-etfs

With respect to SPTM:
The SPDR Portfolio Total Stock Market ETF seeks to
provide investment results that, before fees and
expenses, correspond generallyto the total return
performance of the Russell 3000® Index
How comfortable are you with the use of the word "generally"?

This whole thing comes down to whether or not you're comfortable investing in the new State Street funds. If you are, you can keep your existing Vanguard ETFs and start buying the State Street funds instead and simply hold both. If you aren't, you can always buy them at Vanguard for free.
Russell Index 3000 was the old index under the old ticker. With the new ticker they will be tracking the SSGA total market index. Why would they track their “own” index? I assume to save money and control costs in their own interest. I wouldn’t want to be a guinea pig to find out how much tracking error their own index tracks an independent S&P Total Market Index.

Regards,
John

avalpert
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Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by avalpert » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:28 pm

John Laurens wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:22 pm
investor997 wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:12 pm
John Laurens wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:04 pm
“Broad based direct replacements”. What total market index will the spdr funds be tracking?

Regards,
John
https://us.spdrs.com/en/strategies/spdr ... folio-etfs

With respect to SPTM:
The SPDR Portfolio Total Stock Market ETF seeks to
provide investment results that, before fees and
expenses, correspond generallyto the total return
performance of the Russell 3000® Index
How comfortable are you with the use of the word "generally"?

This whole thing comes down to whether or not you're comfortable investing in the new State Street funds. If you are, you can keep your existing Vanguard ETFs and start buying the State Street funds instead and simply hold both. If you aren't, you can always buy them at Vanguard for free.
Russell Index 3000 was the old index under the old ticker. With the new ticker they will be tracking the SSGA total market index. Why would they track their “own” index? I assume to save money and control costs in their own interest. I wouldn’t want to be a guinea pig to find out how much tracking error their own index tracks an independent S&P Total Market Index.

Regards,
John
You do realize Vanguard did the exacts same thing 5 years ago to save costs, right? You were okay being a guinea pig then?

John Laurens
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:31 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by John Laurens » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:35 pm

avalpert wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:28 pm
John Laurens wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:22 pm
investor997 wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:12 pm
John Laurens wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:04 pm
“Broad based direct replacements”. What total market index will the spdr funds be tracking?

Regards,
John
https://us.spdrs.com/en/strategies/spdr ... folio-etfs

With respect to SPTM:
The SPDR Portfolio Total Stock Market ETF seeks to
provide investment results that, before fees and
expenses, correspond generallyto the total return
performance of the Russell 3000® Index
How comfortable are you with the use of the word "generally"?

This whole thing comes down to whether or not you're comfortable investing in the new State Street funds. If you are, you can keep your existing Vanguard ETFs and start buying the State Street funds instead and simply hold both. If you aren't, you can always buy them at Vanguard for free.
Russell Index 3000 was the old index under the old ticker. With the new ticker they will be tracking the SSGA total market index. Why would they track their “own” index? I assume to save money and control costs in their own interest. I wouldn’t want to be a guinea pig to find out how much tracking error their own index tracks an independent S&P Total Market Index.

Regards,
John
You do realize Vanguard did the exacts same thing 5 years ago to save costs, right? You were okay being a guinea pig then?
Are not Vanguard’s cost savings passed directly to the shareholders/owners of the underlying fund. They are one in the same. Owners of SPDR funds aren’t necessarily shareholders of State Street, and shareholders of State Street aren’t necessarily owners Of SPDR funds. There is a difference, at least in my mind.

Regards,
John

avalpert
Posts: 6313
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:58 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by avalpert » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:10 pm

John Laurens wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:35 pm
avalpert wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:28 pm
John Laurens wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:22 pm
investor997 wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:12 pm
John Laurens wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:04 pm
“Broad based direct replacements”. What total market index will the spdr funds be tracking?

Regards,
John
https://us.spdrs.com/en/strategies/spdr ... folio-etfs

With respect to SPTM:
The SPDR Portfolio Total Stock Market ETF seeks to
provide investment results that, before fees and
expenses, correspond generallyto the total return
performance of the Russell 3000® Index
How comfortable are you with the use of the word "generally"?

This whole thing comes down to whether or not you're comfortable investing in the new State Street funds. If you are, you can keep your existing Vanguard ETFs and start buying the State Street funds instead and simply hold both. If you aren't, you can always buy them at Vanguard for free.
Russell Index 3000 was the old index under the old ticker. With the new ticker they will be tracking the SSGA total market index. Why would they track their “own” index? I assume to save money and control costs in their own interest. I wouldn’t want to be a guinea pig to find out how much tracking error their own index tracks an independent S&P Total Market Index.

Regards,
John
You do realize Vanguard did the exacts same thing 5 years ago to save costs, right? You were okay being a guinea pig then?
Are not Vanguard’s cost savings passed directly to the shareholders/owners of the underlying fund. They are one in the same. Owners of SPDR funds aren’t necessarily shareholders of State Street, and shareholders of State Street aren’t necessarily owners Of SPDR funds. There is a difference, at least in my mind.

Regards,
John
Maybe, but right now State Street's costs to me are lower than Vanguards so I don't really care if they are pocketing some of the savings as profit - the profit motive is a very powerful motivator and I'm happy for them to profit off me if they can win competition on price for their broad funds.

User avatar
bici
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:07 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by bici » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:18 pm

Vanguard gets a win for me. This is the motivation I needed to 'upgrade' my Vanguard Roth to a brokerage acct and transfer my ETF's in from my TD Roth. One less account, and one less vestige from my active trading days.
bici

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