Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
RIMDBogle
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:13 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by RIMDBogle » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:21 pm

Thanks for opening this thread.

Good to see coverage of many items there including many folk's frustrations about TDA's decision.



I went there of their past commission FREE list with Vanguard ETFs. They pulled all Vanguard ETFs and the new list has 300 ETF. The low ER ETFs in the list shows thin volume and wide spread.

Are there any articles to filter out desirable ETFs from this list?

What is the best way to use the new ETF list to build a portfolio?


Are there any drawback to use the ETFs from new list (due to thin volume, wide spread)?

Thanks for sharing.

dalmatiandan
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:11 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by dalmatiandan » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:22 am

RIMDBogle wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:21 pm
Thanks for opening this thread.

Good to see coverage of many items there including many folk's frustrations about TDA's decision.



I went there of their past commission FREE list with Vanguard ETFs. They pulled all Vanguard ETFs and the new list has 300 ETF. The low ER ETFs in the list shows thin volume and wide spread.

Are there any articles to filter out desirable ETFs from this list?

What is the best way to use the new ETF list to build a portfolio?


Are there any drawback to use the ETFs from new list (due to thin volume, wide spread)?

Thanks for sharing.
When I was researching alternatives a few months back, I just went to this website:

https://research.tdameritrade.com/grid/ ... onfree.asp

And sorted by expense ratio in each asset class to find the broad index ETF that would help me replace VTI, etc...

I came up with SPTM (total US market), SPDW (world ex-US, developed), SPEM (emerging markets), and SPAB (bonds).

I use SPDW and SPEM in an 80/20 ratio to get a complete international representation, based on suggestions earlier in this thread.

Good luck,
Dan

TIAX
Posts: 1148
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TIAX » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:10 am

Online message I sent to TDA:
Thank you for your response. While I realize you have ~300 ETFs on your commission-free list, as you know, in 2017, you replaced broad, low expense ratio, liquid ETFs (e.g., VTI, VEA, etc.) with illiquid ETFs such as SPTM, SPDW and SPEM. The reason for this wasn't to benefit your clients but to enter into Custodial Platform Shelf-Space Distribution Agreements with organizations like State Street (Vanguard, for example, doesn't enter into such agreements). See https://www.kitces.com/blog/vanguard-nt ... greements/. I hope that with Vanguard set to include nearly every ETF on its commission-free list next month, and the out-flow of assets that will surely cause, TD Ameritrade will reconsider its 2017 move and will match Vanguard or, at the very least, add back the Vanguard and iShares ETFs it previously included on its list. I would appreciate it if you would pass this message along to whoever makes the decisions on the ETFs to include on the list.

RIMDBogle
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:13 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by RIMDBogle » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:34 pm

Thanks for opening this thread. Good read.

I did research and found a way to reach out to TDA Commission Free team. I am not sure, whether I can post it here. I will be glad to share, so you are welcome to express your dissatisfaction to them to bring back Vanguard or sensible ETFs to this list. You are welcome to send me a PM, so I will share, how to reach out to TDA team.

Did any one filter out good/sensible ETFs from current TDA Commission FREE list?

Thanks for sharing.

livesoft
Posts: 62716
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:55 pm

Any time a list of no-commission ETFs appears or changes, one can simply look at the list and sort from low-expense-ratio to high-expense-ratio. The ETFs that I would pick would be low expense ratio ones, so they would be among the first 10 to 20 ETFs in the sorted list. It's pretty easy to do and one can do it again when the list changes.

So given that, tell us what YOU think the good/sensible ETFs are. Thanks!
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

RIMDBogle
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:13 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by RIMDBogle » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:16 pm

Thanks . That is one piece. What are the other characteristics to look for (eg Liquidity, Spread etc)?

Do you mean ETF with high ER not sensible?

Thanks for sharing.

livesoft
Posts: 62716
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:32 pm

Other characteristics: Passively-managed. Index fund. Tracks a Vanguard ETF faithfully. After all, if you liked the Vanguard ETF, why wouldn't you like the clone of the Vanguard ETF? So why did you choose the Vanguard ETF in the past? The same reasons can be used for other ETFs, right?
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

TallBoy29er
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TallBoy29er » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:36 pm

FWIW, I didn't drop Vanguard ETF's, I dropped TDA. I did get free trades, but with three accounts (spouse and self Roth, taxable), it's a pain in the arse. Funny - tried to open a Merrill Edge account, thought it would be nice to have all Bank of America accts and Merrill acct in one place. Did the app, and finally heard back after 6 days. They want me to send in drivers license, SS card, and 2 bills. Forget that. Just spent 6 minutes opening and funding a Vanguard account. I've seen the complaints about custy service at Vanguard, but I can tell you, they smoked Merrill (and Schwab) on account opening.

peace out

User avatar
Earl Lemongrab
Posts: 5444
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:14 am

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:44 pm

I've opened several accounts at Merrill Edge. All were done online and available immediately.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

User avatar
vineviz
Posts: 1719
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 1:55 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by vineviz » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:45 pm

RIMDBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:16 pm
What are the other characteristics to look for (eg Liquidity, Spread etc)?
Liquidity and spread are not important, so pay no attention to those.

Assuming you are looking at index ETFs, low ER is certainly the main evaluation you can make.

If the account is a taxable account, then historical tax-efficiency might be important but it’d probably not be more important than ER.
"Far more money has been lost by investors preparing for corrections than has been lost in corrections themselves." ~~ Peter Lynch

livesoft
Posts: 62716
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:47 pm

TallBoy29er wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:36 pm
FWIW, I didn't drop Vanguard ETF's, I dropped TDA. I did get free trades, but with three accounts (spouse and self Roth, taxable), it's a pain in the arse. Funny - tried to open a Merrill Edge account, thought it would be nice to have all Bank of America accts and Merrill acct in one place. Did the app, and finally heard back after 6 days. They want me to send in drivers license, SS card, and 2 bills. Forget that. Just spent 6 minutes opening and funding a Vanguard account. I've seen the complaints about custy service at Vanguard, but I can tell you, they smoked Merrill (and Schwab) on account opening.

peace out
Ha! Ha! My son has an account at Vanguard. His Vanguard taxable account simply disappeared after he sold shares and transferred the money to his Vanguard Roth IRA as a contribution. Then he tried to open a taxable account again at Vanguard. They rejected it and asked for his identification credentials which he hasn't bothered to deal with.

So Vanguard was smoking something on my son's account opening and he was already a client. :twisted:
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

TallBoy29er
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by TallBoy29er » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:11 pm

livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:47 pm
TallBoy29er wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:36 pm
FWIW, I didn't drop Vanguard ETF's, I dropped TDA. I did get free trades, but with three accounts (spouse and self Roth, taxable), it's a pain in the arse. Funny - tried to open a Merrill Edge account, thought it would be nice to have all Bank of America accts and Merrill acct in one place. Did the app, and finally heard back after 6 days. They want me to send in drivers license, SS card, and 2 bills. Forget that. Just spent 6 minutes opening and funding a Vanguard account. I've seen the complaints about custy service at Vanguard, but I can tell you, they smoked Merrill (and Schwab) on account opening.

peace out
Ha! Ha! My son has an account at Vanguard. His Vanguard taxable account simply disappeared after he sold shares and transferred the money to his Vanguard Roth IRA as a contribution. Then he tried to open a taxable account again at Vanguard. They rejected it and asked for his identification credentials which he hasn't bothered to deal with.

So Vanguard was smoking something on my son's account opening and he was already a client. :twisted:
Just when I was feeling good about making a decision where to go..... :shock:

livesoft
Posts: 62716
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by livesoft » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:14 pm

TallBoy29er wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:11 pm
Just when I was feeling good about making a decision where to go..... :shock:
The good thing is that my son sold all shares in his UTMA back in January and hasn't reinvested the money. So he is up YTD over what would have happened if Vanguard didn't act insanely.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

RIMDBogle
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:13 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by RIMDBogle » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:52 pm

Hello,

Are you able to after tax contribution into TDA Solo 401K?

How did you do that?

Thanks for sharing.

User avatar
Earl Lemongrab
Posts: 5444
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:14 am

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:10 pm

RIMDBogle wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:52 pm
Are you able to after tax contribution into TDA Solo 401K?
I don't think any of the default plans have that.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

RIMDBogle
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:13 pm

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by RIMDBogle » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:43 am

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:10 pm
RIMDBogle wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:52 pm
Are you able to after tax contribution into TDA Solo 401K?
I don't think any of the default plans have that.
I did open another thread on this subject, where I find a workaround with TDA Solo 401K.

Here is the link viewtopic.php?f=1&t=257667
Last edited by RIMDBogle on Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Earl Lemongrab
Posts: 5444
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:14 am

Re: Fellow TDA bogleheads [TDA dropping Vanguard ETFs from commission-free list]

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:53 am

RIMDBogle wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:43 am
I did open another thread on this subject, where I find a workaround with TDA Solo 401K.
When you mention such a thread it's a good idea to provide a link.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

Post Reply