VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

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Daisy Dog
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VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Daisy Dog » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:21 am

Last night I got a call from Canton MA , didn't recognize the # so didn't answer it. Voice mail message started with background noise of screaming children and noises like things being thrown or broken. Then a heavily accented woman said (read) that I should call 781.575.2000 about the upcoming VG shareholder vote.

I was alarmed because this woman had my cell number and knew I had VG funds. This morning I called VG and the rep said that VG has outsourced this activity. So I guess it was legit but I am still disturbed. This was not a "professional" call and raised red flags in my mind as well as took time to figure out what was going on.

I apologize if this topic has been addressed already. I did a search but couldn't find anything.

Thanks.

Daisy

dbr
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by dbr » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:34 am

If the call isn't from Bill McNabb himself, then I am insulted.

I think your complaint is legitimate.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by SuperGrafx » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:39 am

I received a similar call this past week (from Canton, MA, no less!) and was shocked as well.
I hope this isn't a continuing trend for Vanguard.
Then again, I do distinctly remember extremely long call hold times about a year ago...perhaps this is their way of addressing said problem.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by AlohaJoe » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:43 am

Daisy Dog wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:21 am
Then a heavily accented woman
What does the accent have to do with anything? My friend from Manchester has a heavy accent but that doesn't mean he's not professional. My friend from Cologne also has a heavy accent but she's also extremely professional.

student
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by student » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:47 am

Many companies outsource. Outsourcing on an occasions for specific projects is ok in my view. What I found disturbing is from the description given by the OP, the caller seems to be calling from her home. This is not a controlled environment.
Last edited by student on Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:59 am

Outsourcing of proxy votes is quite common (especially for company proxy votes)

In fact, I remember being called multiple times, even at night on a proxy vote (I think it was merger related). It got really annoying.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by dbr » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:04 am

PS I have no complaint about accents and a major problem with phone soliciting about anything.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Spirit Rider » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:23 am

You are going to have to learn to be outraged then. Pretty much every large financial institution outsources procedural and marketing tasks. If it can be accomplished with a script, it is a likely candidate for outsourcing. They need their own staff for customer service calls.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Daisy Dog » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:30 am

The accent comment was not meant to be insulting. It was just meant that she was hard to understand and also in spam email, the senders often don't use traditional English spelling...and my senses were alerted. The whole phone mail message seemed off.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by coupleofcents » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:35 am

So did you vote then? I submitted my votes online the other day for both mine and my wife's accounts. I think VG is getting desperate to get enough voter turnout. I think if everyone voted then they wouldn't have to outsource.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by nisiprius » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:39 am

I will be annoyed if Vanguard calls me for that purpose.
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by BogleMelon » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:40 am

Out of context question, but seriously how are we supposed to vote? I know no names, and have no idea who are these people and i don't care to know any of them!!
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Doc » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:48 am

Some time ago I contacted a CSR through the broker's website and got someone that was working from home. Don't know why but the service was excellent. I think it was Vanguard but I cannot be sure.

There is however a big difference as to who originated the "work from home" phone call.
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by bowest » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:51 am

I got this call on my work line yesterday and the caller asked for my wife by name. After pressing a couple of times on who was calling the caller finally said they were with Vanguard. I asked why they were calling on my work line asking for my wife by name and he confirmed my name and said "Oh, I see you're on the account as well."

He asked asked if I wanted to vote along with management recommendations on the fund proxies and said he could record my proxy vote over the phone. I did find this odd. I know this was for mutual funds but could a company involved in a proxy fight (say P&G) do something similar and record votes by phone from an unsolicited call? Seems ripe for abuse.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:58 am

bowest wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:51 am
I
He asked asked if I wanted to vote along with management recommendations on the fund proxies and said he could record my proxy vote over the phone. I did find this odd. I know this was for mutual funds but could a company involved in a proxy fight (say P&G) do something similar and record votes by phone from an unsolicited call? Seems ripe for abuse.
Yes, companies do that all the time. During merger fights, proxy solicitations can get ugly, and there have been a few scandals involving DF King (proxy solicitation company) too.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by bottlecap » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:06 am

AlohaJoe wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:43 am
Daisy Dog wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:21 am
Then a heavily accented woman
What does the accent have to do with anything? My friend from Manchester has a heavy accent but that doesn't mean he's not professional. My friend from Cologne also has a heavy accent but she's also extremely professional.
Well, there's nothing worse than a Yankee with a heavy accent. Believe me, I grew up in Massachusetts. :wink:

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by flamesabers » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:15 am

Spirit Rider wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:23 am
You are going to have to learn to be outraged then. Pretty much every large financial institution outsources procedural and marketing tasks. If it can be accomplished with a script, it is a likely candidate for outsourcing. They need their own staff for customer service calls.
My concern with outsourcing in this regard is it makes it more difficult for customers to discern between legitimate calls and voice phishing. Unless I requested a callback from Vanguard, the norm for Vanguard to contact me is either snail mail or via secured message in my online account. If I get a call from Vanguard and the number isn't Vanguard's customer service number, I'm going to be very suspicious that it's a legitimate call.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by inbox788 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:18 am

coupleofcents wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:35 am
So did you vote then? I submitted my votes online the other day for both mine and my wife's accounts. I think VG is getting desperate to get enough voter turnout. I think if everyone voted then they wouldn't have to outsource.
How often do they do this voting thing? Is it simply normal business during an annual meeting or a once in a decade event? I've been with Vanguard for ages and don't ever remember doing this before.

Just be glad it wasn't a robocaller. But I do agree that identifying the good guys from the bad guys is harder and harder when the bad guys get better at imitating the good guys and the goods guys adopt poor practices.
Last edited by inbox788 on Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

dbr
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by dbr » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:19 am

inbox788 wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:18 am
coupleofcents wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:35 am
So did you vote then? I submitted my votes online the other day for both mine and my wife's accounts. I think VG is getting desperate to get enough voter turnout. I think if everyone voted then they wouldn't have to outsource.
How often do they do this voting thing? Is it simply normal business during an annual meeting or a once in a decade event? I've been with Vanguard for ages and don't ever remember doing this before.

Just be glad it wasn't a robocaller.
But I really miss Rachel -- haven't heard from her in months.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by jebmke » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:29 am

flamesabers wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:15 am
Spirit Rider wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:23 am
You are going to have to learn to be outraged then. Pretty much every large financial institution outsources procedural and marketing tasks. If it can be accomplished with a script, it is a likely candidate for outsourcing. They need their own staff for customer service calls.
My concern with outsourcing in this regard is it makes it more difficult for customers to discern between legitimate calls and voice phishing. Unless I requested a callback from Vanguard, the norm for Vanguard to contact me is either snail mail or via secured message in my online account. If I get a call from Vanguard and the number isn't Vanguard's customer service number, I'm going to be very suspicious that it's a legitimate call.
I am getting so many robocalls from Medigap providers I have turned off the ringer on our phone. That shuts them all up. I never answered Vanguard either - I only deal with them if I originate the call. They have noted that in our file so our rep knows not to call just to chat.
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Doc » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:31 am

flamesabers wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:15 am
My concern with outsourcing in this regard is it makes it more difficult for customers to discern between legitimate calls and voice phishing. Unless I requested a callback from Vanguard, the norm for Vanguard to contact me is either snail mail or via secured message in my online account. If I get a call from Vanguard and the number isn't Vanguard's customer service number, I'm going to be very suspicious that it's a legitimate call.
I would even be suspect if it was "Vanguard's customer service number" unless I was expecting a call back on something I initiated.

On the "snail mail" issue. I get an email telling me to go to the site in order to read get my secure message. I like that better than snail mail.
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by inbox788 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:51 am

BogleMelon wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:40 am
Out of context question, but seriously how are we supposed to vote? I know no names, and have no idea who are these people and i don't care to know any of them!!
You didn't get the 162 booklet and read it cover to cover? I got 2 copies if you need one and countless emails about it from various accounts I have. (I thought I was paperless, but that may only be my direct Vanguard account)

What I don't understand is how they count the votes, one per user account or fund you invest in? And if you have $100 in each account in 10 different brokerages, do you get 10 votes? And someone with $1M in one account only gets one?

BTW, it's called a Joint Special Meeting, but nothing in the business seems to require calling a special meeting, so I hope this is just a regular meeting where they are addressing these issues. Otherwise I'd question their management.

Anyway, I voted because if they don't have a quorum of votes, they'll have to hold another vote! :oops: So I'm voting now so they stop bothering us. But this begs the question, why or why not have non-voting shares? Facebook and other companies have diluted some share classes in voting power, but just stopped short of eliminating voting rights all together.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/201 ... 694762001/

Can you vote away your right to vote? Supposedly Zuckerberg has enough control he didn't need the vote to enact this new class, but that action would likely have led to other lawsuits.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by coupleofcents » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:04 am

inbox788 wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:18 am
coupleofcents wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:35 am
So did you vote then? I submitted my votes online the other day for both mine and my wife's accounts. I think VG is getting desperate to get enough voter turnout. I think if everyone voted then they wouldn't have to outsource.
How often do they do this voting thing? Is it simply normal business during an annual meeting or a once in a decade event? I've been with Vanguard for ages and don't ever remember doing this before.

Just be glad it wasn't a robocaller. But I do agree that identifying the good guys from the bad guys is harder and harder when the bad guys get better at imitating the good guys and the goods guys adopt poor practices.
Yeah, this is my first time to vote too and I've been with VG for 10 years. I'm not sure if this will become more frequent or not. Anybody else know?

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:26 am

I received one call that I know of. I generally don't answer the phone and let it go to the machine, 99% of which are then hang-ups. In this case I was sort of expecting a call so I answered. I don't recall which custodian it was from but he asked at one point if I just wanted to vote the recommendations. I said no. I don't know enough about any of the issues and don't care to learn, so I won't vote.

Customer service at home is becoming more common. It's cheaper for the company and more convenient for the employees. My brother is a retired teacher and does that part-time for Edward Jones.
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by likegarden » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:40 am

Call from Canton Mass? Perhaps that must have been the lady I could not understand on the answering machine, because I do not wear my hearing aid at home, and I also have an accent, so I deleted that.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by livesoft » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:45 am

I got a call from another brokerages whose initials are T.I.A.A. The woman did not identify herself, did not identify the brokerage, and left a phone number with a simple message, "Call me back and I will help you with the web site." I had answered a feedback question posed to me while working on the web site, so I knew which broker it was. Nevertheless, it was terribly unprofessional. I suspect it was the administrative assistant of somebody at the financial firm who needs more training.

Bad phone calls are just a fact of life.

But I do like how there was an attempt to respond to my complaint. I sent e-mail to WisdomTree.com this week and within 30 minutes got a precise and awesome complete answer to my query back by e-mail.
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by VictoriaF » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:46 am

Because I have an accent, I am sympathetic to others with an accent, especially when their job depends on their ability to communicate on the phone. I prefer to communicate face-to-face where I pay attention to face expressions and repeat or rephrase my points until they are understood.

My guess is that it's cheaper for Vanguard to outsource these calls, and it's cheaper to outsource them to outfits with less skilled workforce.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by student5 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:47 am

It sounds as though Vanguard has determined that the results of these votes will be rather important.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by pkcrafter » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:53 am

Voice mail message started with background noise of screaming children and noises like things being thrown or broken.
This from someone who is supposed to be professional, and someone you are supposed to trust???
My concern with outsourcing in this regard is it makes it more difficult for customers to discern between legitimate calls and voice phishing. Unless I requested a callback from Vanguard, the norm for Vanguard to contact me is either snail mail or via secured message in my online account. If I get a call from Vanguard and the number isn't Vanguard's customer service number, I'm going to be very suspicious that it's a legitimate call.
+10

Several posters have commented that the callers had some information related to their accounts. Not Acceptable! How much information has Vanguard provided to this outsourced service? What kind of service is it that has screaming children in the background? Yes, it certainly opens the door for fraudulent phishing calls.
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by mouses » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:57 am

dbr wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:19 am
But I really miss Rachel -- haven't heard from her in months.
Me, neither. Where is Rachel. I hope she's okay :-)

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by blevine » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:58 am

They make it easy enough to vote online, except for the part about explaining enough info to know who/what to vote for.

Don't know the people involved.
The issues listed to change business practice are not clearly explained.

They just want a bunch of YES men to vote their way without understanding.
Note I work in the industry, no ignorance here other than maybe I missed a link with the info ?
If so, should be prominent.
How is this a mutually run firm ?

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:07 pm

You need to realize that this is a short-term deal. You wouldn't want them to dump all of this on the regular phone employees (considering all the problems) so a temp solution is warranted, and outsourcing is probably the most efficient and cost-effective way.
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Fallible » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:26 pm

I did not get a call, but agree this was questionable handling by Vanguard. I hope those who did get a call will ask VG to explain its role in this and to reveal all customer account information it gave out and what precautions were taken. Also agree on the reference to accents as I have three relatives from other countries who, through hard work, became fluent in English.
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Toons » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:46 pm

I received emails regarding proxy voting.
Never have received a call from Vanguard.
Don't know if having selected the below option for e-delivery in mail preferences has any impact on that, :happy

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Daisy Dog » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:12 pm

As I thought upon this some more, I started to wonder how well the outsourcing company (ComputerShare?) vets their employees. The person calling me (from what sounded like a personal residence) had my name and telephone number and knew I had a VG account. It doesn't take much effort from there to get DOB, address, home purchases & sales, legal filings, voting preference, etc. - especially in my state where that information is public.

I might have felt differently if I had known that someone from VG would be calling me, that it would not be from a VG employee, and that it was safe to answer their questions, and that there were measures in place to keep my personal information (like my name and phone number) confidential. But that approach isn't practical.

And in all fairness, maybe they did try to alert me that I would be called and I just deleted the email accidentally.

Daisy

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by sevenseas » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:57 pm

I got this same phone call several nights ago (Canton MA). I usually never pick up numbers that I don't recognize, but for some reason did this time. Was also suspicious until I chatted with the caller a bit (also a lady with an slight accent, but fluent in English) and could tell that she was legit. She actually was really pleasant. I am vague on the details but she seemed to be saying that if they don't receive enough proxy votes then they will not have a quorum and will need to "cancel the meeting", which will be expensive for all especially us shareholders. She asked for my vote but I told her I would go online to do more reading, and submit my vote from there (I usually do not vote bc I don't feel I'm informed enough on the issues to cast one). She did mention that I could select "Abstain" and that this would count as a vote towards the quorum.

It did take me aback as this has never happened before, but it does seem they are really in dire need of a higher voter response.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by BolderBoy » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:05 pm

BogleMelon wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:40 am
Out of context question, but seriously how are we supposed to vote? I know no names, and have no idea who are these people and i don't care to know any of them!!
Just abstain. They are primarily seeking a quorum.
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by pkcrafter » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:13 pm

dbr wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:19 am

But I really miss Rachel -- haven't heard from her in months.
Rachel has retired, but Siri and Alexa will be glad to talk to you.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by jalbert » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:57 pm

Vanguard should never initiate phone calls to customers for this purpose, outsourced, insourced, or robo'd.
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Longdog » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:00 pm

BogleMelon wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:40 am
Out of context question, but seriously how are we supposed to vote? I know no names, and have no idea who are these people and i don't care to know any of them!!
If that is the case, and if you feel Vanguard is serving you well, then it would be reasonable to vote as recommended. If you do not feel Vanguard is serving you well, then vote the opposite and consider transferring your assets elsewhere.
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by AlohaJoe » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:21 pm

Why does everyone think it is outsourced? Because of the heavy accent?

A relative work for USAA (a Boglehead favorite) in customer service. She works from home and hasn't been in the office in many years. She has a separate office. There have been days when the young son is home sick. Even though a relative looks after him, there have been times when life happens and young children do what they do. She has full access to USAA member accounts from her home. She is not an outsourced employee. When she calls members it comes from an area code that has no USAA branches.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by sambb » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:34 pm

As far as the OPs complaint about a "heavy accent", which seems really insensitive, and says nothing about the outsourcing of the call. THat being said, I agree with the OP that I dont want to receive these calls (regardless of a "heavy accent" whatever that means).

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by sport » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:40 pm

Perhaps the calls from "windows technical department" with an Indian accent has sensitized people to such calls.

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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by grabiner » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:08 pm

The red flag for me is the call-back number, because this is a mark of phishing. An imposter could be trying to get you to give your Vanguard fund information to a fake number.

I had this problem once with a Vanguard employee, about six years ago. I received a voice mail, "This is Joe from Vanguard. Please call me back at (NNN)NNN-NNNN about your IRA contribution." The call-back was not recognizable as a Vanguard number; therefore, I called the main Vanguard number instead, and reported the poor security practice, as well as confirming the issue (taxes were incorrectly being withheld from my conversion).
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by GoldenFinch » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:24 pm

Schwab and my local bank use hard sell for proxy votes. I usually vote the way they want to make them go away. It is annoying, but it means a lot to them and nothing to me so I acquiesce. I did vote for the Vanguard proxy, but at least one of their issues was confusing, and I noticed that others thought so as well based on previous threads.

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Dale_G
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Location: Central Florida - on the grown up side of 81

Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Dale_G » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:26 pm

I didn't get any call, because I did my duty and voted earlier. :D

In the "old days" (1970s & 80s) shareholder votes were more common - often at the fund level. Apparently things have been "simplified" to significantly reduce the need in the case of mutual funds.

Votes are normally tallied on the basis of the shares owned. I didn't read all of the document, so I don't know if there is any adjustment for the various fund and class share prices.

So don't be ticked off - vote and be done with it.

Dale
Volatility is my friend

GoldenFinch
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:34 pm

Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by GoldenFinch » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:29 pm

pkcrafter wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:13 pm
dbr wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:19 am

But I really miss Rachel -- haven't heard from her in months.
Rachel has retired, but Siri and Alexa will be glad to talk to you.

Paul
I thought Rachel was gone too, but she called me today and the caller ID said it was from "Carol Flack" at a local number. I hesitated before picking up, but thought maybe it was someone from my kid's school. Regretted answering when I heard "Rachel."

MotoTrojan
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by MotoTrojan » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:32 pm

flamesabers wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:15 am
I get a call from Vanguard and the number isn't Vanguard's customer service number, I'm going to be very suspicious that it's a legitimate call.
Never trust a caller ID number.

Seasonal
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by Seasonal » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:48 pm

"Vanguard is asking shareholders to vote promptly so that the funds can avoid the extra cost of soliciting sufficient shareholder participation before voting ends in mid-November." https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insigh ... oxy-082017

Vanguard is using Computershare, a proxy solicitation firm, to solicit votes. https://about.vanguard.com/proxy/?INCMP ... 7:EDU:News:

Using a proxy solicitation firm is standard practice for any company with a large group of shareholders. It's not really practical to do it in-house.

JBTX
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Re: VG using outsourcing to call me & I'm not happy

Post by JBTX » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:15 pm

inbox788 wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:51 am
BogleMelon wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:40 am
Out of context question, but seriously how are we supposed to vote? I know no names, and have no idea who are these people and i don't care to know any of them!!
You didn't get the 162 booklet and read it cover to cover? I got 2 copies if you need one and countless emails about it from various accounts I have. (I thought I was paperless, but that may only be my direct Vanguard account)

What I don't understand is how they count the votes, one per user account or fund you invest in? And if you have $100 in each account in 10 different brokerages, do you get 10 votes? And someone with $1M in one account only gets one?

BTW, it's called a Joint Special Meeting, but nothing in the business seems to require calling a special meeting, so I hope this is just a regular meeting where they are addressing these issues. Otherwise I'd question their management.

Anyway, I voted because if they don't have a quorum of votes, they'll have to hold another vote! :oops: So I'm voting now so they stop bothering us. But this begs the question, why or why not have non-voting shares? Facebook and other companies have diluted some share classes in voting power, but just stopped short of eliminating voting rights all together.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/201 ... 694762001/

Can you vote away your right to vote? Supposedly Zuckerberg has enough control he didn't need the vote to enact this new class, but that action would likely have led to other lawsuits.
I never vote on these things. I feel a little guilty about it, but ultimately I am in no way educated on the issues and don't have the time to make myself sufficiently educated. Ultimately if they vote to allow Vanguard funds to leverage up to 99% and add short positions of bitcoin to the funds, I'll take my investments elsewhere.

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