Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

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neveragain
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Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by neveragain » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:00 pm

Has anyone read Kiyosaki's books and would you recommend them?

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Pajamas
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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by Pajamas » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:05 pm

There's been a lot of discussion about them already:

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... q=kiyosaki

I think you can learn something from just about anyone but would prefer sources that are honest and provide the best information available. That would rule out Kiyosaki and imply caution about people like Suze Orman and Dave Ramsey. Of course, many would disagree with me.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by bottlecap » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:07 pm

"Yes" and "no."

It's motivational junk at best. It encouraged some friends of mine to over-leverage and they almost lost it all in 2008. Per them, they would have been broke but for the actions of the government. No matter who has to bail you out, that's not the position I like to be in.

There are many, many threads in this forum about Kiyosaki.

JT

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by heyyou » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:14 pm

If you have the time to learn more about charlatans, read about Kiyosaki.
Read John T. Reed, who has written about Kiyosaki's claims.
Real estate transaction prices are public info.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by VictoriaF » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:22 pm

I've read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and I most emphatically do NOT recommend it.

As a side comment, I came across books by Guy Kawasaki and was avoiding them because I was confusing him with Kiyosaki. When I finally realized my mistake I discovered that Kawasaki is actually a good writer and provides valuable information.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by itstoomuch » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:40 pm

I liked the concepts. I have an entrepreneurial streak. Also, We are diversifying our retirement portfolio to an Income model, away from an investment model.
YMMV
Rev012718; 4 Incm stream buckets: SS+pension; dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rentals. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax TBT%. Early SS. FundRatio (FR) >1.1 67/70yo

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by ClevrChico » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:47 pm

Read it. Made me feel like an underachiever. It turned out to be fiction. Do not recommend spending time reading financial fiction.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by KlangFool » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:48 pm

OP,

The part about stop thinking of your primary residence as an asset is very useful. But, it drives accountants nuts. Which may be useful too.

KlangFool

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by plantingourpennies » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:05 pm

I read Kiyosaki when I was in my teens; it was great to see the difference between an asset and liability clearly explained. Other than that, it's mostly drivel.
VictoriaF wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:22 pm
I've read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and I most emphatically do NOT recommend it.
Victoria
Victoria, I have a lot of respect for your contributions to the forum. Can you give us an idea of books (on investing, or general wisdom) that you would recommend instead of Kiyosaki?

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by sschullo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:06 pm

There is only one thing he does well, extremely well--sell books. Over 32 million and counting!
Public School K-12 Educators: "Ask NOT what your annuity sales person can do for you, ask what you can do to be a Do-It-Yourselfer (DIY)."

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by neveragain » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:10 pm

plantingourpennies wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:05 pm
I read Kiyosaki when I was in my teens; it was great to see the difference between an asset and liability clearly explained. Other than that, it's mostly drivel.
I thought some of the book was overly simple. Like explaining to his audience that credit card debit is a liability. Well, I already knew that.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by neveragain » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:12 pm

heyyou wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:14 pm
If you have the time to learn more about charlatans, read about Kiyosaki.
Read John T. Reed, who has written about Kiyosaki's claims.
Real estate transaction prices are public info.
I will read some more about him.

Overall, I'm not interested in doing any real estate investing anyway. I know lots of people very fascinated with real estate, housing, etc and really want to get involved in it, career-wise and such. But I've never been preoccupied with it at all. I read the book to find out what he had to say about investing money, but he doesn't say that much, really.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by VictoriaF » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:13 pm

plantingourpennies wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:05 pm
I read Kiyosaki when I was in my teens; it was great to see the difference between an asset and liability clearly explained. Other than that, it's mostly drivel.
VictoriaF wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:22 pm
I've read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and I most emphatically do NOT recommend it.
Victoria
Victoria, I have a lot of respect for your contributions to the forum. Can you give us an idea of books (on investing, or general wisdom) that you would recommend instead of Kiyosaki?
The book that has put me on the right investment track was "Personal Finance for Dummies" by Eric Tyson. That was before I discovered the Bogleheads. Now, I recommend "The Bogleheads Guide to Investing," "The Bogleheads Guide to Retirement Planning," and Bill Bernstein's "The Ages of the Investor."

For the general wisdom, I recommend Nassim Taleb's "The Black Swan" and "Antifragile."

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by 552BB » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:01 pm

Hello BH,



Good evening neveragain.


neveragain wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:00 pm
Has anyone read Kiyosaki's books and would you recommend them?


You have asked about Mr. Kiyosaki, and you have referenced his first book, Rich Dad Poor Dad.



As many have commented, he has been called a fool, a crook, a shiester and a charlatan.

From what I now know, I would probably have to agree with these comments.

That having been said, even a fool is sometimes right.

I do think that some of the ideas presented in this first book are both good advice and valid.

Pay yourself first, earn more than you spend, and invest the rest in assets.



There are many other great books that are out there that will give you great advice.

Victoria F has referenced some great books and great authors. The only one on her list that I have not read is "Antifragile."

Because I like the short list she has provided, this book is now on my new reading list.



I would add any book written by John Bogle, and yes I have read them all..... (I think) 8-)

I'll look into this.



There is a list of great books somewhere on this forum.

I would guess that any book on that list would be a great read about investing.

I don't think any book by R. Kiyosaki is on that list.



I hope this helps.



:sharebeer

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by DanMahowny » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:52 pm

Rich people buy assets.
Poor and middle class buy liabilities.

That's what I got out of the book. Good enough for me.

Glad I read it.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by Runner01 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:12 pm

I borrowed Rich Dad Poor Dad and Cash Flow Quadrant from the library due to all of the talk I heard about them. I would say that I didn't really learn anything new from the books (and some information was either poorly worded or wrong). I guess I would be okay recommending the books to a financial newbie for motivation to make a change. I would also recommend Dave Ramsey for the same reason.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by edge » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:31 pm

not recommended

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by knightrider » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:47 pm

I would recommend it for someone in their 20's who knows very little about personal finance and real estate. It's entertaining and fun to read.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by VictoriaF » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:56 pm

Financial books are different from other types of books. With most books, if you read a bad book you will waste time but no harm will result. By contrast, bad financial books will harm you. Financial books are seldom purely theoretical and the harm comes from the recommendations they make. It's difficult to tell which financial books are bad, unless you understand something about personal finance; and it's difficult to develop understanding of personal finance without reading books. Thus, you depend on the people around you and luck and some trial-and-error.

Bad personal finance books are never completely bad. They have some prudent advice, they tell you that you should not spend everything and that you should save and invest. But the core of their advice, the core masked in layers of prudence, is what will harm you.

Furthermore, prudent personal finance is remarkably simple. Taylor's three-funds work. Vanguard's Life strategy and Target Retirement work. A good book can have a few pages about it and be done. But there are hundreds of financial authors, and they have to write about something, they have to make their books interesting, they have to say something new. And interesting and new are what will destroy your prudent personal finance.

Rich Dad, Poor Dad is an example of a book that is more likely to harm than to help. Some of its advice if prudent, much of its advice seems logical and an inexperienced reader may not be able to identify flaws in the logic, and the core advice can be downright harmful. The Amazon reviews are misleading: writers like Kiyosaki have numerous students and followers who write positive reviews, whereas prudent investors don't read Kiyosaki and don't participate in reviews.

Victoria
Last edited by VictoriaF on Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by stemikger » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by miamivice » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:33 pm

I read (about 75%) of his Rich Dad / Poor Dad book when I was in college.

My impression is that there was a secret that he had to make a lot of money, but he didn't reveal the secret in the first 75% of the book. It had something to do with leverage and housing but I couldn't figure it out, and finally got bored of the book when I decided that figuring out the secret was left as an exercise to the reader.

He did hammer on the fact that a primary residence is not an investment, but that's an assertation that I don't agree with. My first house I made $100,000 (after selling expenses) in real money from, and my current house I've made about $250,000 (after selling expenses) if I were to sell today. Both of my primary homes have been handsome investments.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by AntsOnTheMarch » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:20 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:56 pm
Financial books are different from other types of books. With most books, if you read a bad book you will waste time but no harm will result. By contrast, bad financial books will harm you. Financial books are seldom purely theoretical and the harm comes from the recommendations they make. It's difficult to tell which financial books are bad, unless you understand something about personal finance; and it's difficult to develop understanding of personal finance without reading books. Thus, you depend on the people around you and luck and some trial-and-error.

Bad personal finance books are never completely bad. They have some prudent advice, they tell you that you should not spend everything and that you should save and invest. But the core of their advice, the core masked in layers of prudence, is what will harm you.

Furthermore, prudent personal finance is remarkably simple. Taylor's three-funds work. Vanguard's Life strategy and Target Retirement work. A good book can have a few pages about it and be done. But there are hundreds of financial authors, and they have to write about something, they have to make their books interesting, they have to say something new. And interesting and new are what will destroy your prudent personal finance.

Rich Dad, Poor Dad is an example of a book that is more likely to harm than to help. Some of its advice if prudent, much of its advice seems logical and an inexperienced reader may not be able to identify flaws in the logic, and the core advice can be downright harmful. The Amazon reviews are misleading: writers like Kiyosaki have numerous students and followers who write positive reviews, whereas prudent investors don't read Kiyosaki and don't participate in reviews.

Victoria
This is so concise and well written that I must bump it. :beer

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by Day9 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:38 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:48 pm
OP,

The part about stop thinking of your primary residence as an asset is very useful. But, it drives accountants nuts. Which may be useful too.

KlangFool
I love this post, KlangFool. In the book he defines assets as "things that pay you" and liabilities as "things that cost you". The problem is "asset" and "liability" are terms of art in finance. A depreciating asset like a car would be an "asset" to an accountant but a "liability" according to the book.

These labels can be eye-opening for some but if you already read this forum then it's fine to call a spade a spade and label a car a "depreciating asset".
I'm just a fan of the person I got my user name from

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by MNGopher » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:41 pm

His financial advise is very vague, and IMHO is designed to sell more books and get naïve people to pay for his seminars. Nothing useful.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by chinto » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:21 am

Here are a few books I find more credible than Robert Kiyosaki's:
  • Abominable Snowmen: Legend Come to Life by Sanderson, Ivan T.

    Mothman: The Facts Behind the Legend by Donnie Sergent Jr., Jeff Wamsley

    The Loch Ness Monster: The Evidence by Steuart Campbell

    The Tracker: The True Story of Tom Brown Jr. by Tom Brown

    Meet the Sasquatch by Murphy, Christopher.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by bottlecap » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:34 am

Books I found more credible:

"War of the Worlds," by H.G. Wells

"Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone," by J.K. Rowling

"The Yellow Stream," by I.P. Freely

:wink:

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by Wricha » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:58 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:56 pm
Financial books are different from other types of books. With most books, if you read a bad book you will waste time but no harm will result. By contrast, bad financial books will harm you. Financial books are seldom purely theoretical and the harm comes from the recommendations they make. It's difficult to tell which financial books are bad, unless you understand something about personal finance; and it's difficult to develop understanding of personal finance without reading books. Thus, you depend on the people around you and luck and some trial-and-error.

Bad personal finance books are never completely bad. They have some prudent advice, they tell you that you should not spend everything and that you should save and invest. But the core of their advice, the core masked in layers of prudence, is what will harm you.

Furthermore, prudent personal finance is remarkably simple. Taylor's three-funds work. Vanguard's Life strategy and Target Retirement work. A good book can have a few pages about it and be done. But there are hundreds of financial authors, and they have to write about something, they have to make their books interesting, they have to say something new. And interesting and new are what will destroy your prudent personal finance.

Rich Dad, Poor Dad is an example of a book that is more likely to harm than to help. Some of its advice if prudent, much of its advice seems logical and an inexperienced reader may not be able to identify flaws in the logic, and the core advice can be downright harmful. The Amazon reviews are misleading: writers like Kiyosaki have numerous students and followers who write positive reviews, whereas prudent investors don't read Kiyosaki and don't participate in reviews.

Victoria



I agree for the most part we are dealing with a snake oil salesman. Generally this forum is geared to W-2 folks vs 1099 folks. I think if your prospective is from a W-2 point of view Bob is worthless. If you are a 1099 person you may find a few nuggets in that pile of sand. Would I mine here? Not for long.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by stemikger » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:25 am

bottlecap wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:34 am
Books I found more credible:

"War of the Worlds," by H.G. Wells

"Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone," by J.K. Rowling

"The Yellow Stream," by I.P. Freely

:wink:
lol. I will add one to your list. Everything Men know about Women. It's 300 blank pages.
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!

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stemikger
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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by stemikger » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:26 am

MNGopher wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:41 pm
His financial advise is very vague, and IMHO is designed to sell more books and get naïve people to pay for his seminars. Nothing useful.
Yep!! That's an old trick, but I must say he's pretty good at it. He never reveals his secrets, you have to pay up for that. And finally after spending thousands at his seminars and game groups, you still have no idea what he is talking about. All those properties he said he owns - don't exist.

As Boglheads we know all the secrets. Jack lays it all out in black and white. Oh and Warren Buffett gives them all away every year. They are Men of Honor and integrity, Robert is not.
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by VictoriaF » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:28 am

Wricha wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:58 am
VictoriaF wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:56 pm
Financial books are different from other types of books. With most books, if you read a bad book you will waste time but no harm will result. By contrast, bad financial books will harm you. Financial books are seldom purely theoretical and the harm comes from the recommendations they make. It's difficult to tell which financial books are bad, unless you understand something about personal finance; and it's difficult to develop understanding of personal finance without reading books. Thus, you depend on the people around you and luck and some trial-and-error.

Bad personal finance books are never completely bad. They have some prudent advice, they tell you that you should not spend everything and that you should save and invest. But the core of their advice, the core masked in layers of prudence, is what will harm you.

Furthermore, prudent personal finance is remarkably simple. Taylor's three-funds work. Vanguard's Life strategy and Target Retirement work. A good book can have a few pages about it and be done. But there are hundreds of financial authors, and they have to write about something, they have to make their books interesting, they have to say something new. And interesting and new are what will destroy your prudent personal finance.

Rich Dad, Poor Dad is an example of a book that is more likely to harm than to help. Some of its advice if prudent, much of its advice seems logical and an inexperienced reader may not be able to identify flaws in the logic, and the core advice can be downright harmful. The Amazon reviews are misleading: writers like Kiyosaki have numerous students and followers who write positive reviews, whereas prudent investors don't read Kiyosaki and don't participate in reviews.

Victoria



I agree for the most part we are dealing with a snake oil salesman. Generally this forum is geared to W-2 folks vs 1099 folks. I think if your prospective is from a W-2 point of view Bob is worthless. If you are a 1099 person you may find a few nuggets in that pile of sand. Would I mine here? Not for long.
My work experience and investing experience are based on the employment for hire, I am one of what you call "W-2 folks". And so I agree that I am not in a position to judge Kiyosaki's business recommendations. But as you say, the Bogleheads philosophy of investing is optimized for those who like me are getting a paycheck. And so my comments are consistent with the mainstream of the Bogleheads audience and include my personal judgement of the trustworthiness of the book.

If someone wants to become a businessman, to join "1099 folks," he or she should ask for a suggestion of good books. A recommendation from someone like you would be invaluable.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by indexonlyplease » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:38 am

stemikger wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:57 pm
He's a scam artist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6nT0oyPt8
Thanks for the youtube video. Enjoyed watching. I believe Victoria states it best in her post. I will add anytime some rich millionaire stops what they are doing to help you get rich "you are going to be poorer".. This is like Warren Buffet stopping what he is doing and going around teaching seminars on how to get rich. But it's not Warren Buffet, it is some company that purchased the rights to use his name.

We all know by now there is no get rich scheme. But the greed and desperation in us keeps us looking.

I only wish lawyers would go after these people to stop them from taking the money from desperate people.

What I am also finding is that with all the bad reviews on these people there are many positive. So, what is happening is companies are hiring people to search the web and place positive post everywhere maybe even here. Like you see on Youtube etc.

Like the quote states "where are all the investors Yahts"

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by bayview » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:50 am

stemikger wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:25 am

lol. I will add one to your list. Everything Men know about Women. It's 300 blank pages.
* blots sprayed coffee off of keyboard * :D
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by VictoriaF » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:58 am

bayview wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:50 am
stemikger wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:25 am

lol. I will add one to your list. Everything Men know about Women. It's 300 blank pages.
* blots sprayed coffee off of keyboard * :D
Here is a data point about women: We have a sense of humor.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by bayview » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:02 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:58 am
bayview wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:50 am
stemikger wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:25 am

lol. I will add one to your list. Everything Men know about Women. It's 300 blank pages.
* blots sprayed coffee off of keyboard * :D
Here is a data point about women: We have a sense of humor.

Victoria
:sharebeer
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by digarei » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:16 am

...
  • The Wit & Wisdom of Robert Kiyosaki
  • Explaining the CA$HFLOW (How To Get Out Of The Rat Race) game
  • So now you've seen the second [part of the] game

    which is financial and that part of it can be intimidating to some people

    —especially if you're not good with numbers or words [...]

Connect with Bogleheads in Northern California! Click the link under my user info/avatar.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by Tycoon » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:24 am

indexonlyplease wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:38 am

I only wish lawyers would go after these people to stop them from taking the money from desperate people.
Alternately, I wish people would educate themselves so they don't fall for this foolishness. Critical thinking skills for everyone.
...I might be just beginning | I might be near the end. Enya | | C'est la vie

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by Index Fan » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:46 am

Kiyosaki is the poster child for America's dysfuncional reality when it comes to money.
"Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis." | -Seneca

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by CedarWaxWing » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:51 am

stemikger wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:57 pm
He's a scam artist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6nT0oyPt8
The video shows the con guy advising folks to use their credit cards to pay as much as 45 K to get his "advanced" get rich scam classes.
This included encouraging people to raise their credit limits on the spot to make such purchases...and anyone who verbalized objections to the wisdom of doing such a thing was ejected.

Sounds very much like the Trump University scam that had to pay 25 million in penalties after a lawsuit... but that was still less than what they collected in fees from the victims.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by Nova1967 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:21 am

Yes, Kiyosaki is pretty strange

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by KlangFool » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:56 am

Day9 wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:38 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:48 pm
OP,

The part about stop thinking of your primary residence as an asset is very useful. But, it drives accountants nuts. Which may be useful too.

KlangFool
I love this post, KlangFool. In the book he defines assets as "things that pay you" and liabilities as "things that cost you". The problem is "asset" and "liability" are terms of art in finance. A depreciating asset like a car would be an "asset" to an accountant but a "liability" according to the book.

These labels can be eye-opening for some but if you already read this forum then it's fine to call a spade a spade and label a car a "depreciating asset".
Day9,

<< In the book he defines assets as "things that pay you" and liabilities as "things that cost you". >>

This is useful to me. It helps me to think of investment in term of cash flow.

<<The problem is "asset" and "liability" are terms of art in finance. A depreciating asset like a car would be an "asset" to an accountant but a "liability" according to the book. >>

This is useless to me.

So, why would I use exchange term and terminology that is useful to me with something useless?

I read 20 to 30 books in the "Rich Dad Poor Dad" series. I bought the "Cash Flow 101" game too. I picked up some useful stuff for my own personal financial planning.

KlangFool

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by Tycoon » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:03 am

Something to consider when reading any book in this genre is the writer's motivation. Benevolence? Profit? Persuasion? That goes for any book. I'm a skeptic by nature, so I always read with a critical eye - I can't turn it off.

Remember, the "intellectuals" at PBS embraced Robert Kiyosaki. I remember him being showcased. Same for Susan Orman. Intellectuals are no better at weeding out the chaff than others.

This applies to many topics, not just subjects in the financial realm. I'm even more sceptical when an "intellectual" writes because they are skilled at persuasion and often use their positions for hidden agendas. That's perfectly fine as long as the audience is wise enough to understand they are being herded. Unfortunately, in the majority of cases, people either turn their brains off, or are too lazy to think. Or maybe it's easier to be told what to do by a person with perceived authority? I don't know, but I'm starting to care.

Moving on... :annoyed
...I might be just beginning | I might be near the end. Enya | | C'est la vie

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by slayed » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:28 am

I would not recommend his books to anyone.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by KlangFool » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:34 am

Tycoon wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:03 am
Something to consider when reading any book in this genre is the writer's motivation. Benevolence? Profit? Persuasion? That goes for any book. I'm a skeptic by nature, so I always read with a critical eye
Tycoon,

1) Why would we assume anything less than the writer's own self-interest as the motivation?

2) In fact, why would we care about the writer's self-interest and motivation? It won't matter anyhow. Either the writer has something useful for us to learn or he/she won't. Then, it is a waste of our time and effort to read.

3) The path to hell is paved with good intention. Good intention and motivation would not matter if the advice is not helpful. Ditto, the intention and motivation may be bad but the advice might be good and useful in our context.

Anyhow, this is my own $0.02 of opinion.

KlangFool

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by avalpert » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:39 am

Wricha wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:58 am
VictoriaF wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:56 pm
Financial books are different from other types of books. With most books, if you read a bad book you will waste time but no harm will result. By contrast, bad financial books will harm you. Financial books are seldom purely theoretical and the harm comes from the recommendations they make. It's difficult to tell which financial books are bad, unless you understand something about personal finance; and it's difficult to develop understanding of personal finance without reading books. Thus, you depend on the people around you and luck and some trial-and-error.

Bad personal finance books are never completely bad. They have some prudent advice, they tell you that you should not spend everything and that you should save and invest. But the core of their advice, the core masked in layers of prudence, is what will harm you.

Furthermore, prudent personal finance is remarkably simple. Taylor's three-funds work. Vanguard's Life strategy and Target Retirement work. A good book can have a few pages about it and be done. But there are hundreds of financial authors, and they have to write about something, they have to make their books interesting, they have to say something new. And interesting and new are what will destroy your prudent personal finance.

Rich Dad, Poor Dad is an example of a book that is more likely to harm than to help. Some of its advice if prudent, much of its advice seems logical and an inexperienced reader may not be able to identify flaws in the logic, and the core advice can be downright harmful. The Amazon reviews are misleading: writers like Kiyosaki have numerous students and followers who write positive reviews, whereas prudent investors don't read Kiyosaki and don't participate in reviews.

Victoria



I agree for the most part we are dealing with a snake oil salesman. Generally this forum is geared to W-2 folks vs 1099 folks. I think if your prospective is from a W-2 point of view Bob is worthless. If you are a 1099 person you may find a few nuggets in that pile of sand. Would I mine here? Not for long.
Given the number of posts asking about solo 401ks among other indication I don't think that is an accurate characterization of this forum at all. We have a good mix of W2 and 1099 and I don't think that distinction matters at all to evaluating Kiyosaki - regardless of your compensation structure, if you are able to discern the nuggets from the sand in his books you don't need them and if you do need the education you are more likely to be misled by the overwhelming amount of sand in there then stumble on the gold.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by avalpert » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:45 am

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:56 am
Day9 wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:38 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:48 pm
OP,

The part about stop thinking of your primary residence as an asset is very useful. But, it drives accountants nuts. Which may be useful too.

KlangFool
I love this post, KlangFool. In the book he defines assets as "things that pay you" and liabilities as "things that cost you". The problem is "asset" and "liability" are terms of art in finance. A depreciating asset like a car would be an "asset" to an accountant but a "liability" according to the book.

These labels can be eye-opening for some but if you already read this forum then it's fine to call a spade a spade and label a car a "depreciating asset".
Day9,

<< In the book he defines assets as "things that pay you" and liabilities as "things that cost you". >>

This is useful to me. It helps me to think of investment in term of cash flow.
But I know you know better than to take that literally - if you did you would chase dividend yield as opposed to total returns because one generates cash flow.

The reason why it is good to use the terms as they are generally used in the field is because it makes communication smoother. When you start to use your own definitions because those are the ones that are 'useful' to you it you are more susceptible to others using equivocation to lead you astray (or to unintentionally lead others astray because they see you talk about 'assets' and assume it applies to assets as generally used, etc.)

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki - rich dad, poor dad

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:48 am

I removed an off-topic post and reply related to Kiyosaki co-authoring books with Trump. This thread has run its course and is locked (topic exhausted, trending towards general rant). See: Locked Topics
Moderators or site admins may lock a topic (set it so no more replies may be added) when a violation of posting policy has occurred. Occasionally, even if there are no overt violations of posting policy, a topic (or thread) will reach a point where the information content of the discussion has been essentially exhausted and further replies are much more likely to cause distress to the community than add anything of value.
Also see: Non-actionable (Trolling) Topics
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