Irrational Despair?

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DomDangelina
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Irrational Despair?

Post by DomDangelina » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am

I'm seeing lots of articles like this:

7 signs the stock market is ready to run smack into a wall http://www.marketwatch.com/story/7-sign ... 2017-08-18

Irrational despair seems to be the disorder of the day. Or is it quite rational? Should we sell everything now?
"Often the remedy causes the disease. It is by no means the least of life's rules: to let things alone." | Baltasar Gracián, S.J., The Art of Worldly Wisdom, Maxim 121

Independent George
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Independent George » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:52 am

DomDangelina wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am
I'm seeing lots of articles like this:

7 signs the stock market is ready to run smack into a wall http://www.marketwatch.com/story/7-sign ... 2017-08-18

Irrational despair seems to be the disorder of the day. Or is it quite rational? Should we sell everything now?
I'm a natural bear - I almost always assume the market is about ready to smack into a wall. That doesn't mean you sell, though - it just means you rebalance and stick to your investment plan.

And if anything, based on the financial media's past performance, articles like that would be an indicator that it's time to buy.

Levett
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Levett » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:00 pm

The most serious disorder is obviously bad brea(d)th. ;-)

Lev

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saltycaper
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by saltycaper » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:02 pm

I despair daily. Makes you immune to these prognostications.

"Life will go on as it has always gone on. - That is, badly." -Benjamin the Donkey, Animal Farm
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Portfolio7
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Portfolio7 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:11 pm

DomDangelina wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am
I'm seeing lots of articles like this:

7 signs the stock market is ready to run smack into a wall http://www.marketwatch.com/story/7-sign ... 2017-08-18

Irrational despair seems to be the disorder of the day. Or is it quite rational? Should we sell everything now?
I'm a huge bull in that I believe in America and in our economy, yet I admit I've been too much in the weeds, and the drumbeat has been seeping past my defenses lately. Sometimes I have to blink and repeat the mantra from Galbraith: The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.
An investment in knowledge pays the best interest.

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tennisplyr
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by tennisplyr » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:40 pm

I'm an eternal optimist and believe that things will work out well. If anyone is aware of the concept of the "Law of Attraction" that's me. Basically you attract into your life what you think about.
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

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bligh
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by bligh » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:51 pm

I keep reminding myself that with age of the bull market, with the mayhem and chaos of the current political climate, with the massive fiscal debt looming over us, the demographic headwind of an aging population, and all the other things to be gloomy about, the market seems to be bucking and kicking up despite it all. It's not like you and me are the only ones who have thought of all the doom and gloom. All that fear is priced in. If the market is able to climb the wall of such worry and uncertainty, imagine what it will do once people realize the end is not nigh. If world wars and the fear of nuclear armageddon couldn't stop the industriousness of the people of the world, there is nothing to fear about in todays climate. We will overcome, we always have, we always will.. and if we dont, the market will be the last of our worries anyway. :sharebeer

Stay the course my friend.

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SimpleGift
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by SimpleGift » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:12 pm

DomDangelina wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am
Irrational despair seems to be the disorder of the day. Or is it quite rational? Should we sell everything now?
According to the current fundamentals of the U.S. stock market, there is no rational reason for despair. From the most recent S&P 500 earnings report of 8/18/17:
  • • Second-quarter earnings are expected to increase 12.1% from Q2 2016.

    • Of the 474 companies in the S&P 500 that have reported earnings to date for Q2 2017, 73.8% have reported earnings above analyst expectations. This is above the long-term average of 64% and above the prior four-quarter average of 71%.
With today's low interest rates and rising corporate earnings, U.S. equity investors should be rejoicing, not despairing.
Cordially, Todd

munemaker
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by munemaker » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:17 pm

DomDangelina wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am
I'm seeing lots of articles like this:

7 signs the stock market is ready to run smack into a wall http://www.marketwatch.com/story/7-sign ... 2017-08-18

Irrational despair seems to be the disorder of the day. Or is it quite rational? Should we sell everything now?
Articles like this are good sign for the stock market. The market climbs a wall of worry. When everyone is saying BUY, that's when you know the market is overextended.

Johnnie
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Johnnie » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:22 pm

Studies show everyone who ever owns equities dies.

On the bright side, I LOL'd at this Marketwatch title: "How China reclaimed its title as largest holder of Treasurys."

Except, I couldn't remember whether China owning so much US debt or China unloading so much US debt was a prominent reason that we're "all gonna die!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seriously, many are talking about how media coverage of politics and policy is unlike anything seen in living memory, and usually in the worst ways possible. This is a new reality that the nation and world are only beginning to grapple with.

The same thing has happened in financial coverage, but the endless screeching there is discussed much less, other than the continued eyerolling in sophisticated places like this.
"I know nothing."

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:42 pm

DomDangelina wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am
I'm seeing lots of articles like this:

7 signs the stock market is ready to run smack into a wall http://www.marketwatch.com/story/7-sign ... 2017-08-18

Irrational despair seems to be the disorder of the day. Or is it quite rational? Should we sell everything now?
Heh. I'm retired, but am two or three years away from needing to draw from my nest egg. I have a couple years of living expenses tucked away in a short-term Treasury fund. And my wife is working fulltime for the next two to three years, and will draw a full pension after that. So I guess I'm the odd duck here, I'm actually looking forward to the next market correction / bear market / whatever; I plan to rebalance at that time and pick up some more VTSAX at bargain prices. :moneybag

Quit looking at investment porn. They can't predict market crashes. Stay the course and keep to your plan.
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stemikger
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by stemikger » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:33 pm

DomDangelina wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am
I'm seeing lots of articles like this:

7 signs the stock market is ready to run smack into a wall http://www.marketwatch.com/story/7-sign ... 2017-08-18

Irrational despair seems to be the disorder of the day. Or is it quite rational? Should we sell everything now?
You should never be all in or all out of the market. Stick with a asset allocation that you can maintain through bull and bear and don't listen to the news and stop looking at your account. Especially when the market is down. Easier said then done, but I've learned the hard way.
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!

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blueblock
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by blueblock » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:46 pm

DomDangelina wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am
Should we sell everything now?
I'd say no. :P

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by KlangFool » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:05 pm

OP,

The market could crash any day and it may take a long time to recover. This is the fact of life. The only question is

Are you prepared?

If you are, why do you need to worry? If you are not, you probably should do something about your AA.

I am prepared for the market to crash and not recover for 5 years. On top of that, I could be unemployed for 5 years. So, I SWAN (Sleep Well At Night).

KlangFool

ccieemeritus
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by ccieemeritus » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:20 pm

The article is a clear sign that marketwatch wants you to click on the article so they get more advertising revenue.

I personally enjoy watching thestreet.com say "buy stock x" / "sell stock x" in separate articles on the same day.

Meanwhile other branches of the news profit while convincing you there are so many child predators that you can't let your kids go to the park.

Don't let it get you down. They literally profit by alarming you.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:56 pm

DomDangelina wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am
I'm seeing lots of articles like this:

7 signs the stock market is ready to run smack into a wall http://www.marketwatch.com/story/7-sign ... 2017-08-18

Irrational despair seems to be the disorder of the day. Or is it quite rational? Should we sell everything now?
7 signs? That's a bit ominous. I dunno, I think I'd still rather wait until there were 10 signs at least. :oops:

I think someone's assuming that when the "market smacks into a wall" (what does that even mean?) it will be in traction for ever. I wouldn't assume that just because the market "is ready to smack into a wall" that it can't get back up again and eventually make it over the wall. Haven't you ever heard the phase, "The market climbs a wall of worry"?

ok, I read the clickbait. As usual, I'm sorry I did. But we have an obligation here to be critical thinkers and to try to help our fellow investor. So after reading through the first six signs and laughing at "bad bredth", I determined the real crux of the article (like most clickbait) comes at the climax, with the 7th Sign:
Perhaps the biggest signal that the market may face an extended period of weakness is President Donald Trump. Not solely because of his recent rhetoric that Wall Street business leaders have found unpalatable, but because his campaign promises, including tax cuts and a boost to spending on roads, bridges and tunnels, look to be in jeopardy. Such pledges had been credited as a driving force behind market gains, along with relatively better corporate earnings reports and a stable economy.

Doubts about the president’s ability to follow through because of his stumbles in working with leaders inside of Washington and in the business community makes that pro-growth idea less likely, at least in the near term.
Ah, so it's basically a fortune telling attempt, couched as political and economic interpretation/critique. Haven't the authors realized they have no credibility on the subject of forecasting since election day? Yes, election day when the market futures plunged the night of the election, only to rally the next day (and thereafter). Nobody knowns nuthin. And finally, what does "at least in the near term" mean? Do investors really care about the "near term"? Doesn't investing mean long term by definition, as opposed to speculation which is short term?

Are you seriously asking if you should sell everything now? Are you planning on acting on your retirement assets because of a Marketwatch article? If the authors of these articles really knew something, why would they tell you and others what's going to happen? That would give away their advantage. They would instead act with the courage of their convictions. Did this author (Mark Decambre) sell all his stocks? Did he instead short the market since it's due for an imminent decline? Someone ought to ask him. If he hasn't, isn't he a hypocrite and spreading fear mongering? Do you want to seriously take the advice of someone like that?
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

Dead Man Walking
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Dead Man Walking » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:21 am

Did anyone think that this bull market was going to last forever?

DMW

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by clown » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:43 am

Speaking of media coverage, I was disappointed to hear a FOX anchor say the market PLUNGED a couple days ago. The change was about 1.4%. Hardly a PLUNGE by any reasonable definition. And that would apply only if you were 100% in the Dow.

DomDangelina
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by DomDangelina » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:46 pm

Dead Man Walking wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:21 am
Did anyone think that this bull market was going to last forever?

DMW
Is it over?
"Often the remedy causes the disease. It is by no means the least of life's rules: to let things alone." | Baltasar Gracián, S.J., The Art of Worldly Wisdom, Maxim 121

Dead Man Walking
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Dead Man Walking » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:54 pm

DomDangelina wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:46 pm
Dead Man Walking wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:21 am
Did anyone think that this bull market was going to last forever?

DMW
Is it over?
I have no idea if it is over. I expect that there will be a correction at some point since this has been the historical behavior of the market. When it will happen and how long it will endure are questions for which no one has answers. When it happens, rebalancing will be in order.

DMW

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by The Wizard » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:29 pm

DomDangelina wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:46 pm
Dead Man Walking wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:21 am
Did anyone think that this bull market was going to last forever?

DMW
Is it over?
Nothing is ever over.
But sometimes the pause button gets hit...
Attempted new signature...

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HomerJ
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by HomerJ » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:44 pm

DomDangelina wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am
I'm seeing lots of articles like this:

7 signs the stock market is ready to run smack into a wall http://www.marketwatch.com/story/7-sign ... 2017-08-18

Irrational despair seems to be the disorder of the day. Or is it quite rational? Should we sell everything now?
Did you just discover the Internet today? There have been stories like that for years. Someday they will be correct. Maybe even tomorrow. But maybe not for another 5-10 years. Who knows?

Set yourself an Asset Allocation assuming the market could drop 50% tomorrow and stay down for 5-10 years. Because it might happen. Then stop worrying about trying to predict the future.

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willthrill81
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by willthrill81 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:59 pm

Simplegift wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:12 pm
DomDangelina wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am
Irrational despair seems to be the disorder of the day. Or is it quite rational? Should we sell everything now?
According to the current fundamentals of the U.S. stock market, there is no rational reason for despair. From the most recent S&P 500 earnings report of 8/18/17:
  • • Second-quarter earnings are expected to increase 12.1% from Q2 2016.

    • Of the 474 companies in the S&P 500 that have reported earnings to date for Q2 2017, 73.8% have reported earnings above analyst expectations. This is above the long-term average of 64% and above the prior four-quarter average of 71%.
With today's low interest rates and rising corporate earnings, U.S. equity investors should be rejoicing, not despairing.
+1

The sad truth of the matter is that fear sells better than does hope. Ultimately, though, I think that plays well into the hands of equity investors who are in it for the long haul.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Call_Me_Op » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:26 am

DomDangelina wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am
Should we sell everything now?
This comment suggests that you have no plan. Every investor needs a plan to be successful.
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein

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CyclingDuo
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by CyclingDuo » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:28 am

Dead Man Walking wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:54 pm
DomDangelina wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:46 pm
Dead Man Walking wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:21 am
Did anyone think that this bull market was going to last forever?

DMW
Is it over?
I have no idea if it is over. I expect that there will be a correction at some point since this has been the historical behavior of the market. When it will happen and how long it will endure are questions for which no one has answers. When it happens, rebalancing will be in order.

DMW
The article was pointing out that the correction is already underway for certain equities, and the underlying "technicals" that coincide with a corrective move are confirming in a similar way to prior corrective moves (small caps, VIX levels rising, Gold rising, transports declining, breadth showing the "Hindenburg Omen", correlation break downs, and the psychology of perception that can create crowd thinking).

Expect to continue seeing a plethora of articles about the 'technical damage" being done if things move south for a while and how it will take a long time to "repair said damage" and yada, yada, yada. If we had a dollar for every time a chartist mentioned the technical damage of a stock was going to create more downside, or in reverse, when the same chartists claim more upside based on a breakout - we'd gladly take a dollar as well. Don't get scared out of your investments!!!

The ongoing touting of how August and September are weak months, the upcoming eclipse, the noise or non-noise coming out of our nation's capitol, that works like propaganda at times. The micro vs. the macro never will stop being written and spoken about on a daily basis.

The real question is - as others have raised in this thread - how does all of it impact your long range investment goals?

Plenty of studies have shown what happens if you miss the 10 best days for the S&P by trying to trade in and out of markets when they go up and down.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cost-of- ... 500-2014-3

This shows if you miss the best up days, and also the worst days (good luck with that timing)....

https://www.ifa.com/12steps/step4/missi ... orst_days/

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Toons » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:38 am

Despair about what you can't control?
Despair and Worry Rob you of Joy.
Waste Of Precious Time. :happy
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Teague » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:20 am

DomDangelina wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am
Should we sell everything now?
No. Only sell those things that are going to go down and stay down for a long time, because there will be at least a few stocks that will continue to go up.

What's that? It's impossible to predict which individual stocks will do what, particularly in the short term?

Well, then if "the market" is made up of a bunch of individual stocks....
Semper Augustus

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nedsaid
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by nedsaid » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:13 am

I don't know, the market is down maybe 2% from all-time highs and people seem to be in utter despair. Normally, bull markets end with excessive optimism and not with excessive pessimism. Think of the roaring twenties, the go-go years of the 1960's, the internet and high tech bubble of the late 1990's, and the real estate bubble of 2007. Bull markets end when everyone who will buy has bought, there is no supply of pessimists turning into optimists, buying stocks and propelling markets higher. Bull markets end when you run out of buyers. Conversely, bear markets end when the last optimist capitulates and sells in utter disgust. The market has run out of optimists who turn into pessimists and thus drive the markets lower. Bear markets end when you run out of sellers.

All this doom and gloom in the financial press is actually bullish. It is called the market climbing the wall of worry. There are still a lot of pessimists out there who could potentially change their mind and become buyers of stock. What we are seeing is not euphoria.
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by willthrill81 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:06 pm

nedsaid wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:13 am
I don't know, the market is down maybe 2% from all-time highs and people seem to be in utter despair. Normally, bull markets end with excessive optimism and not with excessive pessimism. Think of the roaring twenties, the go-go years of the 1960's, the internet and high tech bubble of the late 1990's, and the real estate bubble of 2007. Bull markets end when everyone who will buy has bought, there is no supply of pessimists turning into optimists, buying stocks and propelling markets higher. Bull markets end when you run out of buyers. Conversely, bear markets end when the last optimist capitulates and sells in utter disgust. The market has run out of optimists who turn into pessimists and thus drive the markets lower. Bear markets end when you run out of sellers.

All this doom and gloom in the financial press is actually bullish. It is called the market climbing the wall of worry. There are still a lot of pessimists out there who could potentially change their mind and become buyers of stock. What we are seeing is not euphoria.
I too think that this doesn't feel like 1999 at all. Everyone is decrying how overpriced stocks are and how low future returns are, whereas back in 1999 people thought the DOW would hit 40,000 in just a few years. I think this pessimism has actually kept the market from getting overheated at least somewhat.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by drk » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:20 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:06 pm
nedsaid wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:13 am
I don't know, the market is down maybe 2% from all-time highs and people seem to be in utter despair. Normally, bull markets end with excessive optimism and not with excessive pessimism. Think of the roaring twenties, the go-go years of the 1960's, the internet and high tech bubble of the late 1990's, and the real estate bubble of 2007. Bull markets end when everyone who will buy has bought, there is no supply of pessimists turning into optimists, buying stocks and propelling markets higher. Bull markets end when you run out of buyers. Conversely, bear markets end when the last optimist capitulates and sells in utter disgust. The market has run out of optimists who turn into pessimists and thus drive the markets lower. Bear markets end when you run out of sellers.

All this doom and gloom in the financial press is actually bullish. It is called the market climbing the wall of worry. There are still a lot of pessimists out there who could potentially change their mind and become buyers of stock. What we are seeing is not euphoria.
I too think that this doesn't feel like 1999 at all. Everyone is decrying how overpriced stocks are and how low future returns are, whereas back in 1999 people thought the DOW would hit 40,000 in just a few years. I think this pessimism has actually kept the market from getting overheated at least somewhat.
From Jason Zweig's recent column "The Market Really Is Different This TIme":
Over the past month, small investors have pulled $17 billion out of U.S. stock mutual funds and exchange-traded funds and added $29 billion to bond funds. That’s the latest leg of a long-term trend: Since the internet-stock bubble burst in 2000, investors have withdrawn half a trillion dollars from U.S. stock mutual funds.

Instead of chasing this rising market upward, individual investors have been backing away from it. That retreat is increasingly automatic and has become an integral part of how the stock market works.
Rather than proceeding apace to irrational exuberance, it appears that the market is growing into its elevated P/E ratio.

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Admiral » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:27 pm

I believe economists have predicted 10 of the last 7 recessions...

Ignore the financial news industrial complex, or read it only for laughs. Nobody knows anything.

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by KlangFool » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:56 pm

OP,

I do not think your despair is irrational. You need to be prepared for a recession and a bear market. It does not matter when it will happen. It will happen sometime in the future.

KlangFool

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:24 pm

I removed several posts which delved into manipulation of data, decision making, and accuracy of media reporting.

Please stay focused on the investing aspects.
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

RudyS
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by RudyS » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:12 pm

Major problem with selling, is knowing when to get back in. That cycle requires TWO correct decisions.

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Top99% » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:03 am

RudyS wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:12 pm
Major problem with selling, is knowing when to get back in. That cycle requires TWO correct decisions.
+1. I know some people who sold in 2008 when the big decline started, bragged about selling before "the bottom" was hit and have been waiting for the right time to get back in ever since.
Adapt or perish

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Tamalak » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:37 am

"7 signs" the stock market is ready to run smack into a wall?

Was this right next to a link telling you how to "avoid market crashes with this one weird trick!"? :oops:

"Bear markets hate him!"

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by IlliniDave » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:04 pm

I've been doing this for about three decades now. There was never I time that I can remember that forecasts of woe and doom were not plentiful. Such predictions generate a lot more interest then "and the market lived happily ever after" would.
Don't do something. Just stand there!

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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by Pajamas » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:03 pm

I can still remember this special October 23, 1987 episode of Wall Street Week with Louis Rukeyser and special guests John Templeton, Steven Einhorn and William Schreyer. Worth watching even today in the context of this thread. If you don't have time to watch the whole thing, the opening credits and his opening statements are a fun flashback to a more innocent time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFn1G2goDQw

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dodecahedron
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by dodecahedron » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:29 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:03 pm
I can still remember this special October 23, 1987 episode of Wall Street Week with Louis Rukeyser and special guests John Templeton, Steven Einhorn and William Schreyer. Worth watching even today in the context of this thread. If you don't have time to watch the whole thing, the opening credits and his opening statements are a fun flashback to a more innocent time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFn1G2goDQw
Very fun blast from the past. My late husband and I used to love watching WSW together. In an interesting and fun coincidence, the show made a passing reference to the total solar eclipse which had happened earlier that year.

GoldenFinch
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Re: Irrational Despair?

Post by GoldenFinch » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:43 pm

NOISE (Bogleheads are supposed to ignore it).

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