Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

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azanon
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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by azanon » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:55 pm

According to Morningstar (as of 1 Nov 2017), looks like Global Wellesley launched with 223.0 mil AUM, and Global Wellington started with 340.9 mil AUM. That's pretty impressive IMO.

bling
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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by bling » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:03 pm

does anyone know how long it'll take for the underlying holdings to be available? i'm curious of the US vs international breakdown.

tj
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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by tj » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:06 pm

bling wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:03 pm
does anyone know how long it'll take for the underlying holdings to be available? i'm curious of the US vs international breakdown.
I think they update the website every month.

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by SirRunsabit » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:18 pm

First valuation change on Friday. What a downer. 1¢ on the Wellesley. :wink:
Hi!

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration

Post by booch221 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:51 pm

effillus wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:29 pm
Both Wellesley and Wellington already have SOME foreign equities. Perhaps more will be added, plus the addition of international bonds.
Wellesley Income has just 6% of its assets invested overseas, the Global Wellesley will have 45% in the US, 43% invested in Europe and the remaining 12% dedicated to Asia and emerging markets. It will maintain its ⅔ bonds, ⅓ stocks allocation.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/411893 ... lready-buy

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration

Post by bling » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:16 pm

booch221 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:51 pm
Wellesley Income has just 6% of its assets invested overseas, the Global Wellesley will have 45% in the US, 43% invested in Europe and the remaining 12% dedicated to Asia and emerging markets. It will maintain its ⅔ bonds, ⅓ stocks allocation.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/411893 ... lready-buy
That's a very surprising tilt towards Europe over Asia. Other international index funds like VEU are split down the middle 50/50.

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by TimeRunner » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:56 pm

Vanguard VT (Total World Stock ETF) as of 9/30/17:
Europe 21.3%
Pacific 13.8%
Emerging Markets 9.3%
North America 55.3%
Middle East 0.2%
Other 0.1%
See: https://advisors.vanguard.com/VGApp/iip ... undId=3141
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azanon
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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration

Post by azanon » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:57 pm

bling wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:16 pm
booch221 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:51 pm
Wellesley Income has just 6% of its assets invested overseas, the Global Wellesley will have 45% in the US, 43% invested in Europe and the remaining 12% dedicated to Asia and emerging markets. It will maintain its ⅔ bonds, ⅓ stocks allocation.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/411893 ... lready-buy
That's a very surprising tilt towards Europe over Asia. Other international index funds like VEU are split down the middle 50/50.
Europe has lower valuations than in Asia, on average. In a way, I like seeing that they're tilting somewhat, or not perfectly matching, say, VT. If I wanted a pure index fund, I'd buy one and pay less. I'd probably be suspicious that they're not doing anything special if all they did was match world allocations.

So underweight North America, and overweight Europe is definitely indicating a tilt to lower CAPE countries, unless that's coincidence.

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration

Post by lack_ey » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:01 pm

azanon wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:57 pm
Europe has lower valuations than in Asia, on average. In a way, I like seeing that they're tilting somewhat, or not perfectly matching, say, VT. If I wanted a pure index fund, I'd buy one and pay less. I'd probably be suspicious that they're not doing anything special if all they did was match world allocations.
I don't know, I could see some people wanting a fund to do bottom-up security selection within countries but stick to the script for relative country weightings, not trusting the manager on macro issues. That wouldn't be me, but it doesn't sound preposterous.

Though I do wonder how they'll handle things in the future if Europe gets more expensive.

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration

Post by columbia » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:57 pm

booch221 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:51 pm
effillus wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:29 pm
Both Wellesley and Wellington already have SOME foreign equities. Perhaps more will be added, plus the addition of international bonds.
Wellesley Income has just 6% of its assets invested overseas, the Global Wellesley will have 45% in the US, 43% invested in Europe and the remaining 12% dedicated to Asia and emerging markets. It will maintain its ⅔ bonds, ⅓ stocks allocation.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/411893 ... lready-buy

That's an interesting ~10% underweighting of the US - if I'm reading that correctly.

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration

Post by azanon » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:26 pm

lack_ey wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:01 pm
azanon wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:57 pm
Europe has lower valuations than in Asia, on average. In a way, I like seeing that they're tilting somewhat, or not perfectly matching, say, VT. If I wanted a pure index fund, I'd buy one and pay less. I'd probably be suspicious that they're not doing anything special if all they did was match world allocations.
I don't know, I could see some people wanting a fund to do bottom-up security selection within countries but stick to the script for relative country weightings, not trusting the manager on macro issues. That wouldn't be me, but it doesn't sound preposterous.

Though I do wonder how they'll handle things in the future if Europe gets more expensive.
I admit I've bought into some of Mebane Faber's work somewhat, having read his global value book. His ETF global value (GVAL) is targeting value at both the macro level and security selection. According to his "research", there's merits to doing it at both levels. But he's taking GVAL to a much greater extreme on the risk level, than I'd ever expect a Wellesley fund to do.

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by ndchamp » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:47 pm

So at 9 PM EST tonight, Tuesday, Vanguard sends an email; "Your confirmation for the transaction made on Nov 6, 2017 is available at Vanguard > My Accounts > Statements > Confirmation Tab."
The Confirmation reversed my EBT purchases of the new Global Wellesley and Wellington Funds.
No reason given, long after business hours, so no talking with anybody.
What the Hell, Vanguard? :confused

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by ndchamp » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:37 pm

ndchamp wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:47 pm
So at 9 PM EST tonight, Tuesday, Vanguard sends an email; "Your confirmation for the transaction made on Nov 6, 2017 is available at Vanguard > My Accounts > Statements > Confirmation Tab."
The Confirmation reversed my EBT purchases of the new Global Wellesley and Wellington Funds.
No reason given, long after business hours, so no talking with anybody.
What the Hell, Vanguard? :confused
Evidently Vanguard tried to double my purchase, so had to undo that mistake. Of course they only showed that the on next day's Account Balances.
Maybe it's just me, but it seems Vanguard's Customer Service has been making a LOT of missteps lately. :oops:

columbia
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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by columbia » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:48 pm

Out of curiosity, I ran a comparison of 50/50 Wellesley/Wellington vs 70% SP500/30% total bond in portfolio visualizer. For 1987-present, the former won out.

Secret sauce at play? Who knows, but I wouldn't turn up my nose at the global offerings.

dh
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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by dh » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:05 am

I see that the initial portfolios for Global Wellesley and Global Wellington are now available. In just looking at the equity breakdown: Global Wellington's US equity holdings are just over 50%, and Global Wellesley US equity holdings are just under 50%. Wellesley includes emerging markets, whereas Wellington does not.

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by tj » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:10 am

dh wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:05 am
I see that the initial portfolios for Global Wellesley and Global Wellington are now available. In just looking at the equity breakdown: Global Wellington's US equity holdings are just over 50%, and Global Wellesley US equity holdings are just under 50%. Wellesley includes emerging markets, whereas Wellington does not.

When I click portfollio and management, it says no holdings of this type. It looks like only the top 10 are available?

dh
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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by dh » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:19 am

tj: Under the Portfolio tab you can see the country breakdown (near the bottom of the page).
Listed as Country diversification (% of fund) as of 11/30/2017

tj
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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by tj » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:09 pm

dh wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:19 am
tj: Under the Portfolio tab you can see the country breakdown (near the bottom of the page).
Listed as Country diversification (% of fund) as of 11/30/2017


Yes but you cannoot see the individual stock and bond holdings.

dh
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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by dh » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:36 pm

tj wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:09 pm
dh wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:19 am
tj: Under the Portfolio tab you can see the country breakdown (near the bottom of the page).
Listed as Country diversification (% of fund) as of 11/30/2017


Yes but you cannoot see the individual stock and bond holdings.
Not yet. That info will most likely be available in January. Hang in there tj
Of most interest to me was the international / US equity breakdown; that is available now.

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by azanon » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:23 pm

What strikes me as interesting is that, on the equity side, the global wellington manager seems to be more-or-less trying to match the US version, but is adding a global portfolio with weightings very similar to a global market portfolio minus emerging market - so it's pretty conservative.

But the global wellesley manager is obviously taking a deep value approach by over-weighting countries with low valuations (such as CAPE) (see Star Capital for country valuations), and is also adding emerging market which collectively has low valuations. The Global Wellesley manager also underweighted US quite a bit, again consist with underweighting where there is high valuations. So that's more of a deep value approach, like a milder version of Mebane Faber's Global Value, where both the stocks themselves and the countries that they're located in are value oriented. That approach would be expected to "juice" expected return, but at a higher risk level. Personally, I like that approach better, but others should be wary that is no vanilla 1/3rd stock portfolio.

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by azanon » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:15 am

I discovered something interesting about Global Wellesley; Ian Link, the equity portfolio manager for the fund, is more-or-less replicating his equity holdings for Hartford Global Equity Income Fund (ticker HLEJX) for Global Wellesley. It's not an exact match, but it's close enough. See: https://www.hartfordfunds.com/funds/glres.html

I can't say I'm exactly ecstatic that he's a "3-star" fund manager when (US) Wellesley/Wellington is a perennial 5-star. However, on the bright side, he managed to match (almost exactly) the performance of morningstar's "World Stock" benchmark for 5 years, despite a 1.00% expense for that fund. Said another way, he pocketed the alpha he produced :oops: .

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by tj » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:46 am

azanon wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:15 am
I discovered something interesting about Global Wellesley; Ian Link, the equity portfolio manager for the fund, is more-or-less replicating his equity holdings for Hartford Global Equity Income Fund (ticker HLEJX) for Global Wellesley. It's not an exact match, but it's close enough. See: https://www.hartfordfunds.com/funds/glres.html

I can't say I'm exactly ecstatic that he's a "3-star" fund manager when (US) Wellesley/Wellington is a perennial 5-star. However, on the bright side, he managed to match (almost exactly) the performance of morningstar's "World Stock" benchmark for 5 years, despite a 1.00% expense for that fund. Said another way, he pocketed the alpha he produced :oops: .
That means more of the alpha should go to the fund holders of Global Wellesley, as it costs a lot less than the Hartford fund....I haven't pulled the trigger on this fund yet though.

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by lack_ey » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:09 am

tj wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:46 am
azanon wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:15 am
I discovered something interesting about Global Wellesley; Ian Link, the equity portfolio manager for the fund, is more-or-less replicating his equity holdings for Hartford Global Equity Income Fund (ticker HLEJX) for Global Wellesley. It's not an exact match, but it's close enough. See: https://www.hartfordfunds.com/funds/glres.html

I can't say I'm exactly ecstatic that he's a "3-star" fund manager when (US) Wellesley/Wellington is a perennial 5-star. However, on the bright side, he managed to match (almost exactly) the performance of morningstar's "World Stock" benchmark for 5 years, despite a 1.00% expense for that fund. Said another way, he pocketed the alpha he produced :oops: .
That means more of the alpha should go to the fund holders of Global Wellesley, as it costs a lot less than the Hartford fund....I haven't pulled the trigger on this fund yet though.
Actually, it would be pretty incredible for him to match the performance of anything for 5 years, given that he's been the manager since mid-2014. The star rating is based on trailing 3-year, 5-year, and 10-year performance including volatility relative to peers. He's only really responsible for the 3-year part. Though when managers take over, usually it takes a while for them to build up the allocation they actually want. In the past 3 years and since he took over, the fund has lost to the benchmark by a few or several percent.

Secondly, Morningstar's benchmark is the category average (across funds, including negative alpha from expenses), not the index. The index return was greater over the period.

But the portfolio was value oriented and possibly a little more ex-US centric than the average fund in the category, I'm guessing, which detracted from performance over the time since he took over. Additionally, the fund was significantly overweight developed Europe relative to Asia-Pacific, which also detracted.

In other words, I think you need to take a closer look before passing judgment on the performance record.

azanon
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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by azanon » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:16 am

lack_ey wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:09 am
tj wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:46 am
azanon wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:15 am
I discovered something interesting about Global Wellesley; Ian Link, the equity portfolio manager for the fund, is more-or-less replicating his equity holdings for Hartford Global Equity Income Fund (ticker HLEJX) for Global Wellesley. It's not an exact match, but it's close enough. See: https://www.hartfordfunds.com/funds/glres.html

I can't say I'm exactly ecstatic that he's a "3-star" fund manager when (US) Wellesley/Wellington is a perennial 5-star. However, on the bright side, he managed to match (almost exactly) the performance of morningstar's "World Stock" benchmark for 5 years, despite a 1.00% expense for that fund. Said another way, he pocketed the alpha he produced :oops: .
That means more of the alpha should go to the fund holders of Global Wellesley, as it costs a lot less than the Hartford fund....I haven't pulled the trigger on this fund yet though.
Actually, it would be pretty incredible for him to match the performance of anything for 5 years, given that he's been the manager since mid-2014. The star rating is based on trailing 3-year, 5-year, and 10-year performance including volatility relative to peers. He's only really responsible for the 3-year part. Though when managers take over, usually it takes a while for them to build up the allocation they actually want. In the past 3 years and since he took over, the fund has lost to the benchmark by a few or several percent.

Secondly, Morningstar's benchmark is the category average (across funds, including negative alpha from expenses), not the index. The index return was greater over the period.

But the portfolio was value oriented and possibly a little more ex-US centric than the average fund in the category, I'm guessing, which detracted from performance over the time since he took over. Additionally, the fund was significantly overweight developed Europe relative to Asia-Pacific, which also detracted.

In other words, I think you need to take a closer look before passing judgment on the performance record.
The far more interesting/relevant point of my most recent post, was to point out that he's matching the holdings of an already existing fund that he's currently running. I said what I thought was most interesting, first. I don't recall seeing that mentioned before, so I did. You're welcome.

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by Slowtraveler » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:07 pm

Does anyone know when the detailed portfolio holdings will be available?

I've been very patient but still only see the top 10 holdings and a basic summary. Portfolio holdings still says no holdings.

This is frustrating when I'm looking into making this 25-50% of my portfolio.

azanon
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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by azanon » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:05 am

Slowtraveler wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:07 pm
Does anyone know when the detailed portfolio holdings will be available?

I've been very patient but still only see the top 10 holdings and a basic summary. Portfolio holdings still says no holdings.

This is frustrating when I'm looking into making this 25-50% of my portfolio.
Looks like they are up now. Enjoy.

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by bling » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:43 pm

Number of bonds 255
Number of stocks 81
how is that possible? that's less number of bonds and stocks than the regular wellington fund...

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by Atarax1a » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:35 pm

I was in global wellington for a bit with a minuscule amount (before the holdings posted), but moved out. Scold me about not having an IPS - it's deserved, as the one I have is still a work in progress.

But I am genuinely curious, why would an active manager with more or less free reign to select securities from anywhere at this point have any money tied up in 10-yr bonds yielding 0.1%? I get the 0.0% ones are STRIPS, and how those work. Is this just a case of trying to diversify for diversity's sake? :confused

Looking at this, for reference: https://personal.vanguard.com/us/FundsA ... irect=true

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by grabiner » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:43 pm

Atarax1a wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:35 pm
I was in global wellington for a bit with a minuscule amount (before the holdings posted), but moved out. Scold me about not having an IPS - it's deserved, as the one I have is still a work in progress.

But I am genuinely curious, why would an active manager with more or less free reign to select securities from anywhere at this point have any money tied up in 10-yr bonds yielding 0.1%? I get the 0.0% ones are STRIPS, and how those work. Is this just a case of trying to diversify for diversity's sake? :confused

Looking at this, for reference: https://personal.vanguard.com/us/FundsA ... irect=true
The low-yielding bonds are all foreign, and probably not denominated in dollars. If the yen is expected to appreciate by 2% per year against the dollar, then a 10-year yen bond yielding 0.1% and a 10-year dollar bond yielding 2.1% are comparable investments. (And the fact that bonds exist with these yields implies such an expectation, which should be reflected in the forward currency markets. A Japanese investor could buy a dollar bond, and then buy a contract to swap the dollars for yen at maturity in order to eliminate the currency risk.)
Wiki David Grabiner

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Re: Vanguard's Global Wellesley Income and Global Wellington Funds in registration [now available]

Post by david1082b » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:07 pm

bling wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:43 pm
Number of bonds 255
Number of stocks 81
how is that possible? that's less number of bonds and stocks than the regular wellington fund...
With only $600 million in assets, they may be waiting for more inflows before going into more assets. I think the original Vanguard 500 fund didn't go into all stocks of the S&P 500 at first due to not having enough money to do it economically. https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/ ... true#tab=2

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