Fraud???

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Dutchgirl
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Fraud???

Post by Dutchgirl »

I made a small transaction on Vanguard last night, and received a confirmation.
This morning I received an email from Vanguard saying confirmation of my account profile update was available at Vanguard.com.
However, I did not make any update on my account profile. I called Vanguard, including the number for fraud, and received messages that their offices are currently closed. "Please call us again during our normal business hours, Monday through Friday . . . . "

Does Vanguard believe fraud cannot take place on the weekend? Although my accounts seem to look the same, I am amazed and perturbed. Has anyone else received this kind of notice? Is it normal for a company of Vanguard's size to be unreachable in cases of possible fraud, if it occurs on the weekend?
PFInterest
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Re: Fraud???

Post by PFInterest »

i think its just an update of your transaction?
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Dutchgirl
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Re: Fraud???

Post by Dutchgirl »

PFInterest wrote:i think its just an update of your transaction?
Yes, it could be, but I had already received an email confirmation of the transaction, which had nothing to do with my account profile.
tibbitts
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Re: Fraud???

Post by tibbitts »

I don't think I'd worry about it too much, but yes I absolutely agree VG and other financial businesses should have a staff specifically able to address fraud 24/7/365. Even for another .001% expenses or whatever.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Fraud???

Post by ResearchMed »

Dutchgirl wrote:
PFInterest wrote:i think its just an update of your transaction?
Yes, it could be, but I had already received an email confirmation of the transaction, which had nothing to do with my account profile.
We've had this happen when we were unaware of any such "change", and it turned out there wasn't anything.
Or nothing we could ever figure out.
Don't be surprised if you soon get a paper letter, "in case" the possibly fraudulent "change" involved an e-address.

If your balances are fine, then don't worry.

And IF your balances aren't fine... then... Yup... nice ["NOT"!] to know there is no fraud help on weekends... :shock:

RM
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Longdog
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Re: Fraud???

Post by Longdog »

Dutchgirl wrote:I made a small transaction on Vanguard last night, and received a confirmation.
This morning I received an email from Vanguard saying confirmation of my account profile update was available at Vanguard.com.
However, I did not make any update on my account profile. I called Vanguard, including the number for fraud, and received messages that their offices are currently closed. "Please call us again during our normal business hours, Monday through Friday . . . . "

Does Vanguard believe fraud cannot take place on the weekend? Although my accounts seem to look the same, I am amazed and perturbed. Has anyone else received this kind of notice? Is it normal for a company of Vanguard's size to be unreachable in cases of possible fraud, if it occurs on the weekend?
Read the confirmation of account profile update in the confirmations tab of Vanguard.com. It will tell you exactly what changed. You don't need a representative to do that.
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Dale_G
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Re: Fraud???

Post by Dale_G »

Did you look at your profile to see if anything changed?

Log in - hover over "my accounts" - select "account maintenance" and then check each of your profile items.

Dale
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Dutchgirl
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Re: Fraud???

Post by Dutchgirl »

Thank you to all who replied. I also think it's probably a glitch, but I strongly feel that Vanguard should have a fraud line available at all times, not just during "business hours." It's ludricous. Are they waiting to be hacked (like Target, for instance), before changing this policy? Credit card companies do have 24/7 coverage for fraud. Vanguard is, I believe, just about the largest mutual fund company around at this time -- a perfect target for hackers. What could possibly be Vanguard's (faulty) reasoning??
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Dutchgirl
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Re: Fraud???

Post by Dutchgirl »

Dale_G wrote:Did you look at your profile to see if anything changed?

Log in - hover over "my accounts" - select "account maintenance" and then check each of your profile items.

Dale
Thanks, but if something had changed, is there anyone to contact? NO.
mega317
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Re: Fraud???

Post by mega317 »

tibbitts wrote:I don't think I'd worry about it too much, but yes I absolutely agree VG and other financial businesses should have a staff specifically able to address fraud 24/7/365. Even for another .001% expenses or whatever.
Ha, if Vanguard ever increased expense ratios across the board the thread here would be multiple pages within hours.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6212
The Wizard
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Re: Fraud???

Post by The Wizard »

I'm guessing the # at this link is staffed 24 hours.
https://investor.vanguard.com/security/fraud?lang=en

Have you tried it?

Edit: oops, I'm wrong. Down at the bottom, fraud only happens M-F, 8am till 7pm...
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CurlyDave
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Re: Fraud???

Post by CurlyDave »

The Wizard wrote:...Edit: oops, I'm wrong. Down at the bottom, fraud only happens M-F, 8am till 7pm...
No, fraud happens all the time but the hours that fraud can be reversed are as shown.

I don't really can about when it happens, I want to have it reversed, and these are the correct hours for that.
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digarei
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Re: Fraud???

Post by digarei »

Dutchgirl wrote:I made a small transaction on Vanguard last night, and received a confirmation.
This morning I received an email from Vanguard saying confirmation of my account profile update was available at Vanguard.com.
However, I did not make any update on my account profile.
There appear to be many quirks to the triggers that generate communications from Vanguard. I've learned to disregard Vanguard email entirely... I have numerous monthly automated transactions set up among my accounts at Vanguard and it seems every last one of them prompts an email notification. Since no useful content is ever sent in these emails, I just delete them.

Then, periodically, I receive postal service mail that contains an impossibly vague notification, which I read, then discard. Each time I log in to check but have never detected any change in my profile or anything else out of the ordinary.

And then there are phantom reductions in fund expense ratios that appear on the account balance screens... sometimes several years after the reduction was initially reported. Eerily, actual reductions to fund expense charges are only sometimes noted on the screen. This year the ER on one of my principal holdings was reduced from 5 to 4 basis points, which I noted at the time but it was never highlighted.

Oh, well. < sigh >
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welderwannabe
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Re: Fraud???

Post by welderwannabe »

In an abundance of caution it would make sense to change your account password ASAP.
I am not an investment professional, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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BolderBoy
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Re: Fraud???

Post by BolderBoy »

Dutchgirl wrote:Thank you to all who replied. I also think it's probably a glitch, but I strongly feel that Vanguard should have a fraud line available at all times, not just during "business hours." It's ludricous. Are they waiting to be hacked (like Target, for instance), before changing this policy? Credit card companies do have 24/7 coverage for fraud. Vanguard is, I believe, just about the largest mutual fund company around at this time -- a perfect target for hackers. What could possibly be Vanguard's (faulty) reasoning??
This worry has been discussed here a number of times. Suppose someone gains access to your account. What is the worst s/he can do?

While VG may be a "perfect target for hackers", can you imagine how large VG's cybersecurity department is?

In your case, for peace-of-mind, please change your password to something LONG (VG allows up to 20 characters) and complex - something like gibberish using all sorts of characters.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect
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Top99%
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Re: Fraud???

Post by Top99% »

BolderBoy wrote:
Dutchgirl wrote:Thank you to all who replied. I also think it's probably a glitch, but I strongly feel that Vanguard should have a fraud line available at all times, not just during "business hours." It's ludricous. Are they waiting to be hacked (like Target, for instance), before changing this policy? Credit card companies do have 24/7 coverage for fraud. Vanguard is, I believe, just about the largest mutual fund company around at this time -- a perfect target for hackers. What could possibly be Vanguard's (faulty) reasoning??
This worry has been discussed here a number of times. Suppose someone gains access to your account. What is the worst s/he can do?

While VG may be a "perfect target for hackers", can you imagine how large VG's cybersecurity department is?

In your case, for peace-of-mind, please change your password to something LONG (VG allows up to 20 characters) and complex - something like gibberish using all sorts of characters.
OP - thank you for finally giving me a chance to use my expertise to add some value to this forum. You
are right to be vigilant.
Strong passwords are certainly important but also make sure your "security questions" are strong and not something an attacker could get an answer for from your social media footprint. A common attack is via the password reset mechanism. Along those lines make sure whichever email account you use for your account notifications is also locked down. You want to make sure an attacker can't use the password reset mechanism as a back door into your account.
Adapt or perish
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