% bogleheads of overall population

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am
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by am » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:33 pm

I would also add that many bogleheads are not perfect bogleheads. The number of threads on here about chasing the hot investments and behavior showing lack of discipline convinced me.

You'd think sticking with a 3 funder through thick and thin would be so easy, but few do it. It took me years of participation on this forum and reading countless books to convince myself to stick with the 3 funder in roughly fixed proportions through thick and thin. I was thinking that everybody would be doing this, but I think I am in the minority, even on these forums.

new2bogle
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by new2bogle » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:10 pm

My dad's a "boglehead" but has never heard of Mr. Bogle. He invests in low cost index funds since "it seemed like the prudent thing to do". So there are bogleheads out there that don't know they are bogleheads.

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by CantPassAgain » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:31 pm

am wrote:I would also add that many bogleheads are not perfect bogleheads. The number of threads on here about chasing the hot investments and behavior showing lack of discipline convinced me.

You'd think sticking with a 3 funder through thick and thin would be so easy, but few do it. It took me years of participation on this forum and reading countless books to convince myself to stick with the 3 funder in roughly fixed proportions through thick and thin. I was thinking that everybody would be doing this, but I think I am in the minority, even on these forums.
Heh, I was about to post the same thing. The % of bogleheads on bogleheads.org seems to be dwindling lately.

windrider
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by windrider » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:06 pm

flamesabers wrote:
Johnnie wrote:The max 401k contribution is the same whether you earn $20k/year or $120k. So talking about contribution practices of households makes no sense without the additional context of income.
I agree. This is my first year of maxing out my 401k and with a pretax income of about $50k, I certainly notice the reduction in disposable income.

For me being a boglehead is more about avoiding non-mortgage debt, taking advantage of financial opportunities, and not having to live paycheck-to-paycheck. Maxing out your 401k every year is a good financial goal, but I don't think it should be what defines a person as a boglehead or not. If for instance you're making a lot of money and funneling $18k in your 401k every year for the tax deduction without paying any attention to what fund(s) your money is going into, that doesn't strike me as being much of a boglehead.
I'm mostly a lurker since I generally don't have a lot to add. ;)

One thing though that was not very obvious when I started saving, and I still kick myself about, is that I didn't realize all 401k plans are not created equal. I diligently saved as much income as I could in my first job out of college, worked for a couple years, and managed to get about $6000 of 401k savings. I then moved to a new job, but left that 401k where it was (after all, savings is savings, isn't it and 401ks are good things, right? </sarcasm, sigh>) My second company was considerably nicer to me at least.

I did notice that my statements never seemed to grow very much, but thought that since I was at the early point of my compounding career, I shouldn't expect a lot of savings. When I finally moved it to a rollover IRA too many years later, it was still worth roughly $6000. I kick myself for leaving it that long, and for not realizing the enormous fees it was incurring, and all the money I lost not moving it to low cost ETFs earlier, or rolling it over when I moved to the second company.

My current 401k isn't much better than my first, but at least I realized that certain funds are actively managed and VERY bad ideas. About the best I can get away with are index funds with .5% expense ratio (which still really gets my goat)... but it's better than some of the funds at 2%. And the matching and pre-tax deal is still better than putting it all into a taxable account or any other tax advantaged options I have.

So the takeaway for me is that it is at least as important to invest wisely as it is to aggressively put aside money to save. My first 401k earned nearly nothing in 15 years of compounding. (hence, the boglehead approach of investing wisely.)

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Pajamas
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by Pajamas » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:50 pm

A related statistic is the number of millionaires in the U.S. At the end of 2016, the numbers were:

9.4 million individuals with net worth between $1 million and $5 million

1.3 million individuals with net worth between $5 million and $25 million

156,000 households with more than $25 million in net worth

These figures exclude the value of the primary residence.

http://spectrem.com/Content_Press/Spect ... 22-17.aspx

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by pennywise » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:19 am

Da5id wrote: I think that there are many "Bogleheads" who don't read or even know about the forums. I was a "Boglehead" long before finding the forums, saving large portions of my income and investing only in index funds (except for silly 401k that wouldn't let me at various points). I had also read Bogle's "Common Sense on Mutual Funds" long before finding these forums.

So I'd guess there is rather more than 0.1% of the population who live beneath their means, save aggressively, and (based on Vanguards inflows) have discovered that costs matter. aka Bogleheads :)
+1

When I discovered this forum it was like finding my lost tribe :D .

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munemaker
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by munemaker » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:27 am

asif408 wrote:A little basic math: About 62,000 Boglehead members, US population is about 320 million (world population about 7.5 billion), that equates to <0.1% of the population depending on the population you use in the denominator. Any way you look at it, Bogleheads are nowhere near a majority of the population.

Just remember when you visit here that you are in the Boglehead bubble. A nice group to be in a bubble with, but still in a bubble.
Card carrying Bogleheads, yes. But there are also the "Millionaire Next Door" types, mostly entrepreneurs, who have a lot of Boglehead tendencies. Probably not huge numbers of them either.

retiringwhen
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by retiringwhen » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:42 am

Helo80 wrote:I can almost guarantee you that 99.5% of the population has no idea who Jack Bogle is or what a "boglehead" is.
I knew of John Bogle for decades (and followed his preaching gladly) but only found out about this forum in the last 3 months!

There are many "Bogleheads" who really take the "stay the course" message to heart and only look at their plan on an annual basis, so they don't have the desire or need to spend time on forums. That was me, It was only in the past year when family estate planning and the transition to more retirement minded thinking was more urgently required that I looked online and found the Bogleheads forum. I am a techie who has been active on various forums since the days of UUnet Netnews so it was not a technical barrier. In other words, a lot of Bogleheads are likely closet/quiet by their very nature.

On the other hand, I am finding this forum extremely stimulating to my intellectual endeavors on life in general, so I will stick around. The trick is to listen and digest all of this info on the site, while "staying the course". There are many opportunities here with the Boglehead world to tinker a bit too much.

Full Disclosure, I was running a 80/20 portfolio (90% tax-deferred) until my 50th birthday and I am in the process of annually adjusting the bonds up about 1.5% as retirement closes in (still a ways off...). I was about 65% indexing until this year when I got serious and reduced my active funds to just 15% Still have a small amount of individual stocks that I will likely never sell due to unrealized gains.

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by mickeyd » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:53 pm

The trick is to listen and digest all of this info on the site, while "staying the course". There are many opportunities here with the Boglehead world to tinker a bit too much
You got it. Welcome here retiringwhen.
Part-Owner of Texas | | “The CMH-the Cost Matters Hypothesis -is all that is needed to explain why indexing must and will work… Yes, it is that simple.” John C. Bogle

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by snarlyjack » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:02 am

I' am a card carrying Boglehead.

There is also the FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) types here.
Believing in Warren Buffett "The Snowball" type of investing. They
also have Boglehead tendencies. Long term buy & hold using
Vanguard funds & living off of the income. Not a huge number &
mostly younger but very focused on their goals. The "Janitor Next
Door" & the "Millionaire Next Door" types.

Welcome to Bogleheads...

wrongfunds
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by wrongfunds » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:41 am

Would somebody care to explain the following chart previously posted? It is being claimed that 10% of "something" (households? populations? Forbes subscribers?) have net worth greater than $0.9M and 5% are over $1.8M. Suffices to say, I do not believe this at all.

Image

Dirghatamas
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by Dirghatamas » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:38 pm

wrongfunds wrote:Would somebody care to explain the following chart previously posted? It is being claimed that 10% of "something" (households? populations? Forbes subscribers?) have net worth greater than $0.9M and 5% are over $1.8M. Suffices to say, I do not believe this at all.
Yes the data is ~similar from many sources. The "unit" in most of these inequality studies is "family unit" also called a "household". As a good example of the real, detailed work underlying this type of data please see:
Wealth inequality in the United States http://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/SaezZucman2014Slides.pdf

This is an academic study (University Professors) and the link I just posted goes over the methodology including how they use tax returns to predict info. Thomas Piketty used similar sources (tax returns) to compile his famous book on inequality across the World: Capital in the 21st century.

Yes, it does claim that ~10% of US households are millionaires. Do you think that is too high or too low? I can't make out from your comment which side you are expressing disbelief about..

Note that a different study quoted in CNBC came to the same conclusion
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/24/a-record ... shows.html

The confusion maybe between households vs. individuals. There are ~10 million Americans who are millionaires. There are ~100 million households and ~325 million people in the US. So the % is ~10% if you count households. I don't find this result surprising given GDP, GDP per capita and the Gini coefficient for USA. Yes, USA is falling behind other countries like Singapore, Middle East countries and even Nordic Countries in wealth per capita and GDP per capita so expecting much higher % of households in US as millionaires (say 20% or 30%) is not realistic.

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by wrongfunds » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:22 pm

How is the data obtained? I understand that getting household income from tax database is easy but how do they obtain the net worth information?

I do not believe one in every ten household across the entire united states has net worth of over $1M excluding equity in their primary residence (another url posted here with similar claim). I believe the numbers are exaggerated.

I mean even BH on this forum could not agree upon definition of net worth among ourselves!

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by bigred77 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:30 pm

wrongfunds wrote:How is the data obtained? I understand that getting household income from tax database is easy but how do they obtain the net worth information?

I do not believe one in every ten household across the entire united states has net worth of over $1M excluding equity in their primary residence (another site posted here with that claim). I believe the numbers are exaggerated.

I mean even BH on this forum could not agree upon definition of net worth among ourselves!
It believe it includes equity in ones primary residence.

I think it's from the Survey of Consumer Finances that is done once every 3 years.

edit to add: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_of ... r_Finances

Dirghatamas
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by Dirghatamas » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:41 pm

wrongfunds
Did you bother going and reading the actual methodology paper I linked to earlier? Again,
http://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/SaezZucman2014Slides.pdf

These are highly respected academics (Piketty among them who might one day get the Nobel Prize). Because "Net Worth" is not on any tax forms, the big innovation academics like Piketty/ Zucman etc. have contributed is how to use the tax forms (which do have separate values for dividends/capital gains etc.) to back extrapolate your net assets by looking at the income from capital and type of income. The methodology is detailed in the link I provided earlier and is also online (for all the world) at Piketty's Paris School of Economics site.

You may question the data but there is a lot of sophistication going into these studies. These folks are socialists (they want a world wide wealth tax to reduce wealth inequality) so they have an agenda, but not sure that would cloud the actual data gathering.

retiringwhen
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by retiringwhen » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:59 pm

I think folks that question the idea that 10% of the population may be millionaires are not factoring in that many people now have large retirement accounts that count as household assets that use to be tied up on defined benefit retirement plans thus not showing up in net worth calculations.

With that, if folks are savers, then it is not hard to be 7 figure household purely by their 401(K) by age 50 or even 40 if aggressive savers... In the old days (like when i started my career in the 80s), none of that money would have showed up in the family assets, instead it would have shown up on assets to be squandered by the corporate pension plan....

As an aside, this is clearly seen in my own family, my brother was a military officer who retired at age 46 with a nice current pension and probably less than $100K in assets mostly in a house. He has been spending the last 10 years socking away for some future assets while enjoying that current cash flow.

I on the other had, was essentially forced (happily in retrospect) to convert my DB Pension plan at age 37 to $150K in a Rollover IRA. I had already been saving aggressively in the company 401(K) and by age 46 was at or near $1M in assets without even considering my home.

Some of my friends in Telecom were not so lucky as too much of their pension and 401(K) were invested in such Blue Chips as Lucent as they gave back almost all of other gains in the 1990s....

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by tpetsch » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:32 pm


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Portfolio7
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by Portfolio7 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:43 pm

retiringwhen wrote:I think folks that question the idea that 10% of the population may be millionaires are not factoring in that many people now have large retirement accounts that count as household assets that use to be tied up on defined benefit retirement plans thus not showing up in net worth calculations.
This. +1

I have worked 23 years for the same employer. Under the original pension plan, I'd have defined benefits worth close to $1M about 2 years from now. The plan has been changed... and changed... and again... and 3 more times. Now? It's worth less than 10% of that. I mean, I'm happy to have it, but it's a huge change from what I originally planned on.

However, it's not like I had my eyes closed. I was already saving, and I upped those savings as my pension was pulled away. I just recently passed the $1M mark for total retirement assets (which includes the vested pension, which of course is not technically part of my net worth yet.). I've read from a couple sources that one of 8 retirement households have a net worth of over $1M, and these are people who had pensions. Us Gen Xers know we can't rely on pensions, SS is a roll of the dice, and then there is inflation... $1M aint' what it used to be. I'd like to hit $3M, but anything over $2M might entice me to leave the rat race. This stat doesn't surprise me at all.
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by Helo80 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:06 pm

Warren Buffett is far more of a household name than Jack Bogle. So, when Buffett writes down his advice that he'd prefer a boring S&P500 index fund over some actively managed hedge fund, that was probably more devastating to the actively managed fund industry than anything Jack bogle has ever said. With Buffett's million dollar bet coming to fruition at EOY, more stories will be written and there might be a small uptick in money towards indexing.

To me, Boglehead is a clean way of saying "The millionaire next door" --- basically live within your means and be a positive accumulator of wealth.

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by Dirghatamas » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:31 pm

retiringwhen wrote:I think folks that question the idea that 10% of the population may be millionaires are not factoring in that many people now have large retirement accounts that count as household assets that use to be tied up on defined benefit retirement plans thus not showing up in net worth calculations.
Fully agree. If you look at the Survey of Consumer Finance data linked above (and I again linked it below), it actually breaks down various asset classes like houses, stocks, bonds, retirement accounts etc. What is interesting about the most recent one form 2013 is that if you just add the house + retirement account, ~10% of families get to ~1 million right there without even taking any other assets into account.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/bul ... /scf14.pdf page 20-23 has those broken out.

Other than inflation (million isn't what it used to be),as you correctly point out, the numbers are a bit misleading. In previous generations, many more folks used to have the defined pension plans (which are harder to convert to a raw net worth). Nowadays with a lot more people in 401K type plans, the number shows up easily as net worth although the actual net worth may not have changed much (different handling of defined benefits vs. defined contribution pension plans). Basically ~10% of American households as millionaires is not surprising at all.
We should get even more humbled when we realize how fast the rest of the world is catching up and passing us by, based on the Global Wealth Data Book from Credit Suisse
http://publications.credit-suisse.com/t ... 254A3E24A5
Countries from the MIddle East stand out (OK that one is obvious due to Oil) but so do Asian countries like Singapore as well as European countries like Switzerland/Ireland as well as the Nordic Countries. There are a lot of wealthy people in this world!

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munemaker
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by munemaker » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:56 am

Does the Net Worth Centile chart include the value of SS?

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Geneyus
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by Geneyus » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:51 pm

celia wrote:And even if someone COULD contribute that much to their 401K, maybe they prefer to contribute to a Roth or backdoor Roth instead.
Agreed. It looks like the article is only focusing on maxxing out a traditional 401k. See the quote from the article below...
THE ARTICLE wrote:It's the rare worker who maxes out his retirement account contributions — and those savings don't come without trade-offs. Super savers — Americans who are putting aside at least 90 percent of the annual $18,000 employee contribution limit to their 401(k) plan...
I didn't see any mention of Roth's or other retirement options, so the 10% figure is kind of skewed, since that isn't everyone's goal. Personally, I have a pension AND I max a Roth each year. My wife meets the employer match for her 401k AND maxes a Roth. We don't want/need to dump $18k into a traditional IRA each year.

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by khaleesi1 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:30 pm

keystone wrote:
deltaneutral83 wrote:I was stunned to read that 10% put in $16,200 in their 401k. I figured it was more like 2-3%, so I guess that's good news.
This is a figure from Vanguard, so I wonder whether this is representative of all 401K plans or just the Vanguard plan. I've had access to payroll records from a variety of employers in my career and I can say that 10% seems high based on my observation. From what I've noticed, those that are maxing out their plans are typically older (>50) and higher earners. Very few people in their 20's and 30's come close to maxing out and quite a bit don't even contribute at all. This shouldn't really be much of a surprise to anyone who talks finances with other people (outside of this site).
I second this. I'm in that age demographic, and I'm the only person in my social circle who maxes out their retirement plan. Only about 25% of my friends/co-workers contribute anything at all despite earning very solid incomes.

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by kappy » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:07 pm

Same here. Some of my friends are at least smart enough to get their full company match but many don't even do that :oops: .

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by CyclingDuo » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:42 am

munemaker wrote:Does the Net Worth Centile chart include the value of SS?
No.

That shouldn't be included in net worth.
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by Goal33 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:50 am

Literally none of my peers have heard of bogleheads, yet all of them are in index funds as their only investments. Not sure how they figured it out but it's possible for people to have bogleheads style portfolios without reading this website.

Only thing I do mostly because of bogleheads that they seem to miss is:
1) Backdoor Roth (this has benefited me)
2) bonds in tax deferred (this has been a negative for me since market has been up and up, and most peers are 100% stock)
3) international investments (another negative as sp500 has outperformed international over most horizons)
4) I spent less on my Bay Area house (another negative because housing has gone up like crazy here and when I upgrade in a few years I'll have spent more than my coworkers)

So overall, being a bogleheads would had been worse for all my peers. You don't have to be a boglehead to do well. I don't regret it though because I am not nervous about my plan and they are.
A man with one watch always knows what time it is; a man with two watches is never sure.

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by BW1985 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:52 am

Goal33 wrote:Literally none of my peers have heard of bogleheads, yet all of them are in index funds as their only investments. Not sure how they figured it out but it's possible for people to have bogleheads style portfolios without reading this website.

Only thing I do mostly because of bogleheads that they seem to miss is:
1) Backdoor Roth (this has benefited me)
2) bonds in tax deferred (this has been a negative for me since market has been up and up, and most peers are 100% stock)
3) international investments (another negative as sp500 has outperformed international over most horizons)
4) I spent less on my Bay Area house (another negative because housing has gone up like crazy here and when I upgrade in a few years I'll have spent more than my coworkers)

So overall, being a bogleheads would had been worse for all my peers. You don't have to be a boglehead to do well. I don't regret it though because I am not nervous about my plan and they are.
How's the saying go- Don't confuse strategy with outcome. Something like that.
"Squirrels figured out how to save eons ago. They buried acorns. Some, they dug up, for food. Others, they let to sprout, in new oak trees. We could learn from squirrels." -john94549

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by Engineer250 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:17 am

Portfolio7 wrote:Us Gen Xers know we can't rely on pensions, SS is a roll of the dice, and then there is inflation... $1M aint' what it used to be. I'd like to hit $3M, but anything over $2M might entice me to leave the rat race. This stat doesn't surprise me at all.
My inlaws were talking about winning the lottery and mentioned something like "getting 1 million" (let's assume, after taxes). I said I'd have to keep working if it was only a million. They both gasped like 1 million is some huge amount! My FiL (MiL doesn't work) said he'd quit right away if they received that amount. They are in their 50s, but as neither has a pension I don't think $1M would be enough for them to retire now either? But they did not seem to understand I have a lot more years I'd need to make it last. It does concern me that must mean they might be nowhere near that in their retirement accounts though, or that possibly $1M is their goal.
Where the tides of fortune take us, no man can know.

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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by TheHouse7 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:50 pm

Engineer250 wrote:
Portfolio7 wrote:Us Gen Xers know we can't rely on pensions, SS is a roll of the dice, and then there is inflation... $1M aint' what it used to be. I'd like to hit $3M, but anything over $2M might entice me to leave the rat race. This stat doesn't surprise me at all.
My inlaws were talking about winning the lottery and mentioned something like "getting 1 million" (let's assume, after taxes). I said I'd have to keep working if it was only a million. They both gasped like 1 million is some huge amount! My FiL (MiL doesn't work) said he'd quit right away if they received that amount. They are in their 50s, but as neither has a pension I don't think $1M would be enough for them to retire now either? But they did not seem to understand I have a lot more years I'd need to make it last. It does concern me that must mean they might be nowhere near that in their retirement accounts though, or that possibly $1M is their goal.
Never underestimate the powet of contentment.
Give me 1mil at 30 and I'm FI
"PSX will always go up 20%, why invest in anything else?!" -Father-in-law early retired.

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Portfolio7
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by Portfolio7 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:31 pm

TheHouse7 wrote:
Engineer250 wrote:
Portfolio7 wrote:Us Gen Xers know we can't rely on pensions, SS is a roll of the dice, and then there is inflation... $1M aint' what it used to be. I'd like to hit $3M, but anything over $2M might entice me to leave the rat race. This stat doesn't surprise me at all.
My inlaws were talking about winning the lottery and mentioned something like "getting 1 million" (let's assume, after taxes). I said I'd have to keep working if it was only a million. They both gasped like 1 million is some huge amount! My FiL (MiL doesn't work) said he'd quit right away if they received that amount. They are in their 50s, but as neither has a pension I don't think $1M would be enough for them to retire now either? But they did not seem to understand I have a lot more years I'd need to make it last. It does concern me that must mean they might be nowhere near that in their retirement accounts though, or that possibly $1M is their goal.
Never underestimate the powet of contentment.
Give me 1mil at 30 and I'm FI
As a single man, I would have held the same opinion. I was living on $20K a year when I started out, in silicon valley no less. As a married man with a special needs child who may need our legacy to survive on, and college looming for two kids - well, the idea of 'needs' takes on a whole new character :wink: .
An investment in knowledge pays the best interest.

Engineer250
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Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by Engineer250 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:31 am

TheHouse7 wrote:
Engineer250 wrote:
Portfolio7 wrote:Us Gen Xers know we can't rely on pensions, SS is a roll of the dice, and then there is inflation... $1M aint' what it used to be. I'd like to hit $3M, but anything over $2M might entice me to leave the rat race. This stat doesn't surprise me at all.
My inlaws were talking about winning the lottery and mentioned something like "getting 1 million" (let's assume, after taxes). I said I'd have to keep working if it was only a million. They both gasped like 1 million is some huge amount! My FiL (MiL doesn't work) said he'd quit right away if they received that amount. They are in their 50s, but as neither has a pension I don't think $1M would be enough for them to retire now either? But they did not seem to understand I have a lot more years I'd need to make it last. It does concern me that must mean they might be nowhere near that in their retirement accounts though, or that possibly $1M is their goal.
Never underestimate the powet of contentment.
Give me 1mil at 30 and I'm FI
I guess costs are all relative. Anyways we're all in California and my in-laws still have a mortgage (and keep refinancing and taking out HELOCs to fix up their house). $40k with no mortgage I grant you. $40k in Michigan or somewhere affordable when you already have decent health care sure. $40k in California with a mortgage and no employer health care and no medicare because you are still under 65? Probably not.
Where the tides of fortune take us, no man can know.

tesuzuki2002
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:40 pm

Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:54 pm

asif408 wrote:A little basic math: About 62,000 Boglehead members, US population is about 320 million (world population about 7.5 billion), that equates to <0.1% of the population depending on the population you use in the denominator. Any way you look at it, Bogleheads are nowhere near a majority of the population.

Just remember when you visit here that you are in the Boglehead bubble. A nice group to be in a bubble with, but still in a bubble.

Only about 249 million if you only count those over 18. Not many minors are working on investing..

Spirit Rider
Posts: 8873
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:39 pm

Re: % bogleheads of overall population

Post by Spirit Rider » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:00 pm

doon wrote:This article got me thinking....
Just 10 percent of employees set aside enough to hit the employee contribution limit during 2016, down from 13 percent who did the year before, according to Vanguard's "How America Saves 2017" report, released earlier this summer. Those who max out tend to be older and/or wealthier. (See a demographic breakdown below.)
"as I now step onto my well worn soap box". The entire premise, tenor and conclusion of your post is not valid.

Everyone should have adequate retirement savings rate to meet their goals. For those with modest incomes $18K is likely impossible. For those in the 1% that is woefully inadequate.

While it might be true that there is a vocal minority here who chant the mantra "everyone must make employee deferrals to the limit" 10 times before bed and 10 times after waking up. It is in fact bogus advice for the vast majority on Americans and probably even a large percentage of the FW forum members,

However, if you look at those numbers in the proper prospective, they really don't look that bad.

For someone who started their retirement investments during their 20s and plan to retire at 65, a 15% retirement savings rate probably is adequate. This would require $120K to make that entirely in employee deferrals.

Well, it turns out that only 8% of workers received >= $120K in 2016. So the fact that 10% of them maxed out at $18K is actually promising. Especially as previously stated, many people may also be making Roth contributions and taxable investments.

"as I step down and scamper away with my soap box".

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