Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry [Brokerage Services]

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jackhensy
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Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry [Brokerage Services]

Post by jackhensy » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:00 pm

I have a Roth IRA and a taxable account.
All I wanted to do was open up one "separate" brokerage account to trade stocks.

Instead the Vanguard customer rep upgrades all my retirement accounts to brokerage accounts! I called back and almost cursed him out.
They said they cannot change them back to the original accounts because Vanguard is wanting everyone to upgrade their accounts to brokerage accounts.

Is this true?

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celia
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by celia » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:06 pm

Unfortunately, yes. They accidentally upgraded one of our accounts about a year ago, but the rest are still on the old platform. To exchange between that upgraded account and any other, we have to call them up each time.

We have Inherited IRAs and one day they admitted they have to stay on the old platform for now. The Inherited IRA accounts were opened after they had started the migration and I was surprised they ended up on the old platform when they were asking everyone else to upgrade.

Big Dog
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by Big Dog » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:16 pm

^^hmm, strange. I have an inherited IRA and it transferred over rather easily a few months ago.

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celia
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by celia » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:37 pm

Yeah, it is strange since the account that was updated was an Inherited IRA.

But I also have Agent Authorization for several family members (various SSNs), so that can also be part of the complication. I think we would all have to agree at the same time. But maybe not, since my dashboard shows accounts on both platforms. I have the impression that in a year or two, everyone will be migrated, like it or not.

FB01
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by FB01 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:00 am

celia wrote:Unfortunately, yes. They accidentally upgraded one of our accounts about a year ago, but the rest are still on the old platform. To exchange between that upgraded account and any other, we have to call them up each time.

We have Inherited IRAs and one day they admitted they have to stay on the old platform for now. The Inherited IRA accounts were opened after they had started the migration and I was surprised they ended up on the old platform when they were asking everyone else to upgrade.
What is disadvantage if they convert to brokerage account?

jackhensy
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by jackhensy » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:27 am

I don't know of the advantages and disadvantages yet.

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Silly Wabbit
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by Silly Wabbit » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:10 am

jackhensy wrote:I don't know of the advantages and disadvantages yet.
Then why are you angry?

The Wizard
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by The Wizard » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:41 am

Silly Wabbit wrote:
jackhensy wrote:I don't know of the advantages and disadvantages yet.
Then why are you angry?
There's no disadvantage that I've found.
I have three brokerage accounts with Vanguard: Roth IRA, Trad IRA (empty), and personal taxable account.
They all work just fine with the Vanguard app or their website.
And I just hold assorted Vanguard mutual funds, no ETFs or non Vanguard products...
Attempted new signature...

BigJohn
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by BigJohn » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:56 am

One disadvantage for the new platform is that you cannot direct dividends to your bank. In the new platform, dividends have to go to the MM settlement account and then manually transferred elsewhere. This is why all my accounts are new platform except my taxable account. I'm sure at some point VG might force a move on that account but until then I'll stand pat.

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TheGreyingDuke
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by TheGreyingDuke » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:07 am

BigJohn wrote:One disadvantage for the new platform is that you cannot direct dividends to your bank. In the new platform, dividends have to go to the MM settlement account and then manually transferred elsewhere. This is why all my accounts are new platform except my taxable account. I'm sure at some point VG might force a move on that account but until then I'll stand pat.
This has not been my experience, dividends have been going directly to my outside account since the switch, although I had to re-activate the instructions when the switch happened, it did not automatically carry over.
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." H.G. Wells

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EngCapt1
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by EngCapt1 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:34 am

BigJohn wrote:One disadvantage for the new platform is that you cannot direct dividends to your bank. In the new platform, dividends have to go to the MM settlement account and then manually transferred elsewhere. This is why all my accounts are new platform except my taxable account. I'm sure at some point VG might force a move on that account but until then I'll stand pat.

Account Maintenance---> Holding level dividend and capital gains elections-----> Change Elections

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mhalley
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by mhalley » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:00 am

This pro and con post is a little old, but still accurate I believe:
http://www.mymoneyblog.com/vanguard-mer ... -cons.html

Silence Dogood
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by Silence Dogood » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:06 am

Perhaps the Bogleheads can answer this better than Vanguard reps (I was given two different answers).

If I transition to the brokerage account, will all of my transaction history transfer over? For example, right now when I go to balances and holdings, and then click on the mutual fund in my Roth IRA, I see at the top it says "opened on 1/03/2011". Will that remain the same or will it say "opened on 6/29/2017" (for example) and then show transactions since then in the history?

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F150HD
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by F150HD » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:56 am

I must be on the 'new' structure according to the link above and have had no issues. Feel like I'm missing something in this thread (?)

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celia
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by celia » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:52 am

FB01 wrote:What is disadvantage if they convert to brokerage account?
In my case, I would have to re-do all my Agent Authorizations and links to our checking accounts. That requires notary signatures and in California, they charge a $10 state fee for each signature being notarized. For me, that would cost over $200 out of pocket.

In addition, the automatic upgrades tend to merge accounts that are titled the same. If you are doing Roth conversions, they may co-mingle your Roths, thus voiding the "separateness" you may need in case recharacterizations are done.

By merging your accounts, they would also mess things up if you have different beneficiaries on your accounts.

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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by AlohaJoe » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:04 am

mhalley wrote:This pro and con post is a little old, but still accurate I believe:
http://www.mymoneyblog.com/vanguard-mer ... -cons.html
It says that
With a merged account, your only options for fund distributions are either automatic reinvestment into the same fund, or cash into your settlement fund. You’ll no longer be able to receive Vanguard fund distributions directly by check, by automatic transfer to your bank account, or by automatic reinvestment into another Vanguard fund.
This part is definitely incorrect (as others on this thread have also already pointed out). I don't know if it has other errors.

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celia
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by celia » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:10 am

Silence Dogood wrote:Perhaps the Bogleheads can answer this better than Vanguard reps (I was given two different answers).

If I transition to the brokerage account, will all of my transaction history transfer over? For example, right now when I go to balances and holdings, and then click on the mutual fund in my Roth IRA, I see at the top it says "opened on 1/03/2011". Will that remain the same or will it say "opened on 6/29/2017" (for example) and then show transactions since then in the history?
You will likely** have access to the old accounts at least until the end of the year. You should save the history yourself. Even without this "upgrade", companies tend to upgrade their computers/ software every 10 to 20 years to keep up with the technology. So at several custodians I have had, they end up giving you new accounts numbers when you are upgraded to the "latest and greatest".

**In all cases I have seen, unused accounts are deleted after one or more years. I've been with Vanguard over 40 years. Do you think my old accounts are still online? No, they could probably pull up my cost basis from something I bought 40 years ago from their archives (probably off-site), but I wouldn't count on it if I were you.

The date your new account is opened is the date your new account is opened, not the date you first opened an account.

queso
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by queso » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:17 am

I just got an email from Vanguard inviting me to transition my accounts to brokerage accounts. Here is what they list as the positives:

VANGUARD BROKERAGE ACCOUNT

Buy, sell, and hold:
• Vanguard mutual funds—no commissions.
• Vanguard ETFs® (exchange-traded funds)—no minimums, no commissions.
• Stocks, bonds, and CDs (certificates of deposit).
• Mutual funds and ETFs from other companies.

YOUR CURRENT ACCOUNT

Buy, sell, and hold:
• Vanguard mutual funds.

**********************************

The benefits: products, protection, simplification

Products

Invest easily in Vanguard mutual funds, Vanguard ETFs, stocks, bonds, and CDs.

Protection

You'll have SIPC protection with a Vanguard Brokerage Account (up to $500,000). This is something your current account doesn't offer.

Simplification

A Vanguard Brokerage Account is a great way to consolidate your assets. You can transfer assets tax-free from other companies and hold them here. This has its advantages: a portfolio in one place can often be easier to manage.

markcoop
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by markcoop » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:22 am

You get consolidated 1099 forms, which is nice. However, I believe you don't get them as quickly (you get them in late Feb??).
Mark

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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by KyleAAA » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:22 am

Relax. Merging everyone onto a single platform will allow Vanguard to save money on support and maintenance costs and lower our expense ratios even more.

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flamesabers
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by flamesabers » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:23 am

queso wrote:I just got an email from Vanguard inviting me to transition my accounts to brokerage accounts.
I got a similar email less then 10 minutes ago. I wonder if Vanguard is trying to get all the stragglers on board with this transition? :mrgreen:
markcoop wrote:You get consolidated 1099 forms, which is nice. However, I believe you don't get them as quickly (you get them in late Feb??).
That's a major disincentive for me. I like to get my taxes taken care of in the first week of February.

queso
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by queso » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:25 am

flamesabers wrote:
queso wrote:I just got an email from Vanguard inviting me to transition my accounts to brokerage accounts.
I got a similar email less then 10 minutes ago. I wonder if Vanguard is trying to get all the stragglers on board with this transition? :mrgreen:
Yeah..looks like it. When I logged on there was a much more detailed PDF about the benefits and switchover process and now I am seeing "UPGRADE" buttons next to my accounts. I'm still kind of reluctant to switch them though.

dbr
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by dbr » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:26 am

If the results are onerous in one way or another one could use the opportunity to move everything to another broker. The new account would look a lot like what Vanguard is moving to, but there may be some differences that matter to someone.

I would not shoot myself in the foot over it. To a great extent this is Vanguard joining the 21st Century.

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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by rkhusky » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:28 am

I have one brokerage account and several mutual fund accounts. I only own Vanguard mutual funds. Transactions in the brokerage account seem to be reported differently than for the mutual fund accounts. Other than that, things seem seamless. I can directly transfer from the taxable mutual fund account to the brokerage IRA account. At first I kept getting annoying messages about authorizing the ability to do stock purchases or something, but after declining for a few months, those have also gone away.

Silence Dogood
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by Silence Dogood » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:30 am

celia wrote:
Silence Dogood wrote:Perhaps the Bogleheads can answer this better than Vanguard reps (I was given two different answers).

If I transition to the brokerage account, will all of my transaction history transfer over? For example, right now when I go to balances and holdings, and then click on the mutual fund in my Roth IRA, I see at the top it says "opened on 1/03/2011". Will that remain the same or will it say "opened on 6/29/2017" (for example) and then show transactions since then in the history?
You will likely** have access to the old accounts at least until the end of the year. You should save the history yourself. Even without this "upgrade", companies tend to upgrade their computers/ software every 10 to 20 years to keep up with the technology. So at several custodians I have had, they end up giving you new accounts numbers when you are upgraded to the "latest and greatest".

**In all cases I have seen, unused accounts are deleted after one or more years. I've been with Vanguard over 40 years. Do you think my old accounts are still online? No, they could probably pull up my cost basis from something I bought 40 years ago from their archives (probably off-site), but I wouldn't count on it if I were you.

The date your new account is opened is the date your new account is opened, not the date you first opened an account.
To be clear, I'm referring specifically to the mutual fund I already own. If I upgrade to the brokerage account I would still keep the same mutual fund that I have now (Vanguard Target Retirement 2055).

So you are saying that if I click on "balances and holdings over time" ... "over time" will only be from the transition date forward (i.e. from now going forward)? I won't see "balances and holdings" starting from 01/03/2011 (when I first contributed to this mutual fund)?

Right now when I click on the mutual fund (within the Roth IRA mutual-fund-only account) is where it shows that it was "opened on 01/03/2011" - I was hoping that it would transfer this mutual fund into the new account along with the history that goes with it.

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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by bloom2708 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:35 am

Change is hard. Once you get used to the new platform, it is no different.

I was one that wanted the upgrade. I had extra $0.00 brokerage accounts tagging along with each "old" mutual fund account.

After the upgrade to brokerage accounts, I had them close the $0 account that never had any activity.

Now I have a nice/clean login page. All accounts are listed by owner and no more $0 overhead.

Change is hard. Change can be good.
"We are here not to please but to provoke thoughtfulness" Unknown Boglehead

munemaker
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by munemaker » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:41 am

My wife and I have a variety of accounts at Vanguard. Two of them hold a small amount of individual stocks, relics of decades gone by. Most of our $$ are in index mutual funds in Vanguard non-brokerage accounts. So we have both brokerage and non-brokerage accounts. I don't really see what the big deal is, either way.

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AAA
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by AAA » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:50 am

It's been a while since my account was upgraded, but there was an issue around check writing for the money market fund that previously was the settlement account. Since in the new format it had a new account number assigned, I had to re-apply for check writing and that had to be done in snail mail.

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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by nisiprius » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:09 am

I don't know why I'm not being pressured to upgrade. I assume it's inevitable. I will be annoyed if it happens and it turns out they can't provide the same automatic exchange services they've always (>a decade, anyway) provided in mutual fund accounts.

You can do this in a traditional mutual fund account. Notice the availability of automatic exchanges in percent, shares, and "declining balance" as well as in dollars. "Declining balance" looks very useful although I've never used it. It means that it will commit to doing the whole exchange over a specified period of timing, adjusting dollar amounts as necessary; e.g. 1/12th of the total in the first of twelve months, 1/11th in the next, 1/10 in the next, and so forth.

Image

This is what Vanguard says about the situation now, and I believe them. "Automatic withdrawal" doesn't offer those options, though.

Image
Last edited by nisiprius on Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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beardsworth
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by beardsworth » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:15 am

Before conversion to the brokerage version of our IRAs, we could set up periodic automatic exchanges between Vanguard mutual funds, for example, from a short-term bond fund to a stock fund.

Post-brokerage, this is no longer possible, because the brokerage version allows only automatic "purchases," not automatic "exchanges." And automatic purchases have to be done from the brokerage sweep fund which, by default, is Vanguard Federal Money Market. This means, in the example above, that if we actually want to have money moved automatically from a short-term bond fund to a stock fund, it can't be done directly. The stock fund can only be purchased from the sweep account, and so it is necessary to periodically liquidate money from the short-term bond fund into the sweep account to keep sufficient money there to cover movements out of the sweep fund for automatic "purchases" of other funds.

We happen to keep some money in Vanguard Treasury Money Market at all times, but it's not even possible to make automatic purchases from there to a stock fund, since Treasury Money Market can't serve as the sweep fund.

Since all of these are Vanguard's own funds, not involving the securities of any other entity, and since Vanguard short-term bond funds and money market funds don't have "frequent trading" restrictions, we consider this multiplication of steps a completely unnecessary nuisance, and would never have converted to the brokerage IRA version if we hadn't also wanted to buy TIPS.

I see that I was writing this at the same time as nisiprius was touching on the same subject in his post above.

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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by sport » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:29 am

My TIRA and Roth IRA have the "upgrade" button. So, those could be "upgraded". My taxable account does not have the button. I believe that this is because I have the distributions in my taxable holdings reinvested in another fund. Apparently this is not possible in the brokerage format. This is similar to the above discussion of automatic purchases.

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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by TedSwippet » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:36 am

nisiprius wrote:I don't know why I'm not being pressured to upgrade. I assume it's inevitable.
I requested a brokerage upgrade and was refused because I am now a non-resident alien. Apparently some internal Vanguard policy prevents non-resident aliens from having a brokerage option on their accounts. If there is indeed a rolling program to convert all existing accounts to brokerage it will be interesting(*) to see what happens to my accounts when it collides with the no-brokerage policy for non-resident aliens.

(*) Potentially interesting in the apocryphal "ancient Chinese curse" sense of the word. I await the collision with some trepidation, then.

jackhensy
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by jackhensy » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:40 am

Disadvantage -They do not disclose that if you have any mutual funds that pay daily interest (like bond funds), when the account is upgraded, those funds will effectively be sold and repurchased triggering a payout of the accrued daily distributions. That would not be a problem EXCEPT they do not honor your prior directions if they are to pay out the distributions, and instead they automatically reinvest them.

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celia
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by celia » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:44 am

Silence Dogood wrote:To be clear, I'm referring specifically to the mutual fund I already own. If I upgrade to the brokerage account I would still keep the same mutual fund that I have now (Vanguard Target Retirement 2055).

So you are saying that if I click on "balances and holdings over time" ... "over time" will only be from the transition date forward (i.e. from now going forward)? I won't see "balances and holdings" starting from 01/03/2011 (when I first contributed to this mutual fund)?
My "Balances over time" screen shows my holdings for the last 10 years but only for the accounts I currently own. Once an account has been deleted from your online account, it won't show up in reports like this. But that won't happen for a year or more (until it is deleted from the system).
Right now when I click on the mutual fund (within the Roth IRA mutual-fund-only account) is where it shows that it was "opened on 01/03/2011" - I was hoping that it would transfer this mutual fund into the new account along with the history that goes with it.
I believe that date will be the date the holding was started in THAT account. Think of it as you did a rollover from one account to another. It is not a taxable event, but the new account will have new dates.

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transition to Vanguard brokerage ?

Post by RustyShackleford » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:47 am

[Thread merged into here, see below (next page). --admin LadyGeek]

I received an email from Vanguard today inviting me to "move to the Vanguard brokerage account". The main text is:
We invite you to transition your Vanguard mutual fund account to the Vanguard Brokerage Account—a simple, more flexible way to manage all your investments in the same account. When you make the move, you'll gain:
• A wider range of investment choices, including not only Vanguard mutual funds but also ETFs (exchange-traded funds), stocks, bonds, and CDs (certificates of deposit).
• Fast, commission-free transactions for all Vanguard mutual funds and ETFs.*
• The ability to easily cancel transactions, gift Vanguard fund shares, and make same-day fund purchases with trade proceeds.

My question: is there any downside to doing this ? FWIW, I don't intend to take advantage of any of these benefits right away (all I hold in my Vanguard mutual fund account is my main domestic equity position in an index fund, and some cash in a money market fund). But I can imagine wanting to hold some other assets there in the future.

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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by Gnirk » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:52 am

I am on the "old" platform, with a large taxable account, a small IRA, a brokerage account, and a small inherited IRA. I currently have the dividends and capital gains of two funds in the taxable account automatically invested into different funds. As others have said, I was told that this won't occur if I upgrade to the new brokerage account, instead I will have to wait for settlement to the money market account, and then manually transfer the dividends to the other funds.
In addition, those dividends now paid directly to my checking account will no longer do so, unless I set them up again.
And the 1099's will be mailed later.

I see no benefit to "upgrading".

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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by knpstr » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:57 am

What a silly thing to be angry about.
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dbr
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by dbr » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:04 pm

knpstr wrote:What a silly thing to be angry about.
I think the anger is because the OP asked for something to apply to one account and perceives that as a response to his request Vanguard did something he did not want done to two other accounts. What is not determined is if what happened to the two other accounts would have happened now anyway and is not a result of asking for one thing and getting something else besides. It is probably silly because sooner or later everyone is going to be changed over. It is not silly to be angry about having an interaction with customer service that causes something not wanted.

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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:07 pm

dbr wrote:If the results are onerous in one way or another one could use the opportunity to move everything to another broker. The new account would look a lot like what Vanguard is moving to, but there may be some differences that matter to someone.

I would not shoot myself in the foot over it. To a great extent this is Vanguard joining the 21st Century.
KyleAAA wrote:Relax. Merging everyone onto a single platform will allow Vanguard to save money on support and maintenance costs and lower our expense ratios even more.
DW's employer has a list of brokerages that are approved. Vanguard is not on the list. But, since our accounts can only hold mutual funds, we were grandfathered in as acceptable.

If our accounts were converted/upgraded, we would be forced to move our holdings to one of the approved brokers. We explained this to Vanguard some years ago, when they first offered the upgrade, and they backed off. We have no button on our screen, or emails encouraging us to convert, as some upthread have said.

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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by Miriam2 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:11 pm

celia wrote:
Silence Dogood wrote:So you are saying that if I click on "balances and holdings over time" ... "over time" will only be from the transition date forward (i.e. from now going forward)? I won't see "balances and holdings" starting from 01/03/2011 (when I first contributed to this mutual fund)?
My "Balances over time" screen shows my holdings for the last 10 years but only for the accounts I currently own. Once an account has been deleted from your online account, it won't show up in reports like this. But that won't happen for a year or more (until it is deleted from the system).
"Silence Dogood" - Right now when I click on the mutual fund (within the Roth IRA mutual-fund-only account) is where it shows that it was "opened on 01/03/2011" - I was hoping that it would transfer this mutual fund into the new account along with the history that goes with it.
I believe that date will be the date the holding was started in THAT account. Think of it as you did a rollover from one account to another. It is not a taxable event, but the new account will have new dates.
I think what Silence Dogood is worried about is being able to track his account and mutual fund balances over time so he knows how he's doing :happy

I have the same Q because I really like the Vanguard Balances over Time graphs. I can customize it to change the funds and accounts to pull up difference graphs for all accounts or individual accounts. It's neat. Also I can see my account history as a graph, which I like :wink:

What Silence Dogood is worried about is losing the early investing years in the accounts for tracking progress.

Silence Dogood - I'm sure there are other programs that will do this for us, inputting the Vanguard data, such as Quicken, MS Money, etc. - haven't used them but they must be available. Then we won't have to worry about the Vanguard Balances over Time aging out.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:14 pm

celia wrote:
FB01 wrote:What is disadvantage if they convert to brokerage account?
In my case, I would have to re-do all my Agent Authorizations and links to our checking accounts. That requires notary signatures and in California, they charge a $10 state fee for each signature being notarized. For me, that would cost over $200 out of pocket.
I'm not sure of this, but I thought that if you activate Voice Authentication, you no longer need to have signatures notarized.

The Wizard
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by The Wizard » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:19 pm

celia wrote:
FB01 wrote:What is disadvantage if they convert to brokerage account?
In my case, I would have to re-do all my Agent Authorizations and links to our checking accounts...
I'm not sure what Agent Authorizations are, but the link from my checking account to my new Vanguard brokerage accounts carried right over...
Attempted new signature...

Silence Dogood
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by Silence Dogood » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:24 pm

Miriam2 wrote:
celia wrote:
Silence Dogood wrote:So you are saying that if I click on "balances and holdings over time" ... "over time" will only be from the transition date forward (i.e. from now going forward)? I won't see "balances and holdings" starting from 01/03/2011 (when I first contributed to this mutual fund)?
My "Balances over time" screen shows my holdings for the last 10 years but only for the accounts I currently own. Once an account has been deleted from your online account, it won't show up in reports like this. But that won't happen for a year or more (until it is deleted from the system).
"Silence Dogood" - Right now when I click on the mutual fund (within the Roth IRA mutual-fund-only account) is where it shows that it was "opened on 01/03/2011" - I was hoping that it would transfer this mutual fund into the new account along with the history that goes with it.
I believe that date will be the date the holding was started in THAT account. Think of it as you did a rollover from one account to another. It is not a taxable event, but the new account will have new dates.
I think what Silence Dogood is worried about is being able to track his account and mutual fund balances over time so he knows how he's doing :happy

I have the same Q because I really like the Vanguard Balances over Time graphs. I can customize it to change the funds and accounts to pull up difference graphs for all accounts or individual accounts. It's neat. Also I can see my account history as a graph, which I like :wink:

What Silence Dogood is worried about is losing the early investing years in the accounts for tracking progress.

Silence Dogood - I'm sure there are other programs that will do this for us, inputting the Vanguard data, such as Quicken, MS Money, etc. - haven't used them but they must be available. Then we won't have to worry about the Vanguard Balances over Time aging out.
Miriam2, this is exactly what I am concerned with. Thank you for clarifying :happy

Since 01/03/2011 my account with Vanguard has been the Target Retirement 2055 fund in a Roth IRA.

I guess before the data is lost, I will have to save all of the transaction history. It's disappointing that this history can't be transferred over with the mutual fund, since I also enjoy looking at the "balances over time" graphs.

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celia
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by celia » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:13 pm

knpstr wrote:What a silly thing to be angry about.
This is not silly. Why would anyone want to give up feature(s) he/she is comfortable with and uses often for features they don't care about?

Mavmoses07
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Re: transition to Vanguard brokerage ?

Post by Mavmoses07 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:31 pm

I received the same message a few months ago. To my knowledge adding the brokerage account just allows one to buy/sell ETFs, bonds, etc. You can largely ignore the brokerage account portion and continue to buy/sell just mutual funds, which is primarily what I've been doing. The Vanguard ETFs are a nice option as you can access more diversified investments with low ERs and not have to worry about meeting the minimum initial investment amounts of mutual funds.

best2u
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by best2u » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:34 pm

I have purposely delayed my conversion and will continue to do so as long as possible. The reason follows. As a direct shareholder in a mutual fund I am a partial owner to the assets of the mutual fund. I gave them my money and they used it to purchase the underlying stocks they control. My money was pooled with other like individuals. Laws are in place to oversee the mutual fund officers, directors and employees. Periodically they report their transactions and results to their shareholders. From that information I can determine what transpired between their last two reports. If in the unlikely event the fund becomes insolvent, I stand in line with other like owners for my residual share of the assets of the mutual fund.

A brokerage company is a different animal than a mutual fund. Under this arrangement I give not only my money but also my securities to an entity to safeguard. I am a liability to the brokerage firm, not necessarily the mutual funds where I originally wished to put my money. Should I ever want my money I am standing at the trough with not only other mutual fund shareholders, but also a long list of other entities. There could be Wall Street firms like Fidelity, or Goldman Sachs, Derivative traders, insurance companies, broker dealers and on and on. Brokerage firms have been known to become insolvent. When they do it is a mess. Not really a fan of what Vanguard is doing here.

beardsworth
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Re: transition to Vanguard brokerage ?

Post by beardsworth » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:37 pm

RustyShackleford (original poster) wrote:My question: is there any downside to doing this ?
There is a current thread, just begun yesterday, touching on this question.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=222234

Using the forum search box at the top of each page also generates these:

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... e+downside

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... advantages

neveragain
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by neveragain » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:37 pm

I was considering Vanguard to transfer my IRAs to them, but perhaps this wouldn't be a good choice. I was hoping to avoid brokerage.

beardsworth
Posts: 1964
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by beardsworth » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:44 pm

neveragain wrote:I was considering Vanguard to transfer my IRAs to them, but perhaps this wouldn't be a good choice. I was hoping to avoid brokerage.
When my wife rolled money out of a pre-tax employer plan to a new Vanguard pre-tax IRA, Vanguard designated the new account a "brokerage" rollover IRA. She pointed out that she hadn't requested the brokerage version. A Vanguard rep said that all new IRAs are now established as brokerage accounts, no exceptions.

But Vanguard has so many other attractive qualities that I wouldn't recommend anyone treat this one point, alone, as a reason not to have an IRA at Vanguard.

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thirdman
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Re: Vanguard upgraded my accounts - angry

Post by thirdman » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:29 pm

My sister who had a Flagship account thru me had less than the one million minimum. When she "upgraded" she found out she was no longer a Flagship client. Furthermore, her Prime Money Market Fund which had less than the $3000 minimum was converted to a Federal Money Market Fund, paying a lower rate. Also her checks were cancelled, and now the minimum check she can write is $250. She had to download a form to fill out and mail in to get checking privileges with her fund.

When she called to inquire, she was told that she could not speak with her former Flagship representative since she was no longer a Flagship client. She was told that she had been "demoted." Also, she found that her hold times were much longer.

The irony is that she "upgraded" to a brokerage account at Vanguard in order to transfer assets in kind from another brokerage firm!

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