Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

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TheDDC
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by TheDDC »

I have been on this forum for a brief time compared to many, but there are two elements on this forum that I hang out here to absorb: investing, and learning more ingenious ways to save money. Pretty much most other elements I tune out as they tend to be highly partisan toward one's one personal view. And I get that, I have my own views. Some of those views relate to financial advisers. I personally have had one, not a terrible one, not even a bad one, just an expensive one. I would hope that Larry adds enough value to his clients to justify his services, and from what I have seen in my limited years here, I believe he does. So there's no need to snipe at an adviser who puts his clients into good, low cost funds, with a proven track record of beating the S&P, and doesn't line his pockets too badly in the process.

Generally these two elements (investing and saving) go hand in hand because we invest and save in order to fulfill our goals to spend and give.

Sorry to hear that someone is leaving because they are being sniped at. 10-15 hours is a long time to spend on a forum, so it may be for the better for Larry's mental health.

-TheDDC
Rules to wealth building: 75-80% VTSAX piled high and deep, 20-25% VTIAX, 0% given away to banks, minimize amount given to medical-industrial complex
MichCPA
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by MichCPA »

DB2 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:46 am Message boards require thick skin. I belong to other types of boards which are a totally different subject matter and it's the same kind of thing. This forum is actually far more cordial. I belong to a strength training forum and you can only imagine. "This training system is the best way to train you idiot!" Debates on studies with different training protocols, experience, etc. Diets the same way (low carb vs low fat, etc.). However, sometimes almost everyone needs a break from boards before getting the urge to jump back in. One of the themes on most forums is the desire to persuade others that their view is the best or correct one.
Its more cordial in that you are less likely to be verbally assaulted, but lets not pretend that the board isn't, well lets go with 'intellectually pretentious".
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whodidntante
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by whodidntante »

I hope he comes back, but I think part of that will require an adjustment in Larry's mindset. On a public message forum, people are going to say things that are ill-mannered, wrong, inflammatory, oblivious, etc. There are several things I don't like about this forum myself, such as the zombified and cultish appeal to authority that happens every day here. I would have left long ago if I took that personally. The forum has offsetting value to the downsides, at least for me. It could be a net negative for Larry.

The main thing I would like Larry to know is that there are posters who value what he has said, and it's not necessary to defend his statements against all comers. There can be a chorus of disagreement with useful contributions. That doesn't mean his contribution is lost on all of us.
Random Walker
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Random Walker »

All of our views have been affected by recency bias and confirmation bias. Over the last 10-11 years the simple low cost TSM approach has blown everything else away. Bogle’s “Cost Matters Hypothesis”, while always true, has been especially true over this time period. The wisdom of modern portfolio theory has taken a bit of a back seat during this extended US Large Growth bull market. It will be interesting to see if the forum tenor becomes more open minded to diversification across independent sources of risk/return during the next equity bear. I agree with Larry that the forum has sort of developed a religious zealot tunnel vision flavor. That zealotry is sure based on solid principles, but it’s not necessarily the whole story.

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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

nedsaid wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:13 am
Texanbybirth wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:11 am It's either an imposter, or he really hasn't left. Someone was posting with his name only last Sunday.

search.php?author_id=228&sr=posts
Yes, that was his last post and he hasn't logged in since.
He could be traveling, on vacation, taking a break or just plain busy. The man does work, and he reads on average one new book a week and he does have a family. In other words, he has a life!! Regardless, I said it before and I'll say it again, he made notable contributions to the forum and to my own way of thinking about investments and for that I say thank you Larry! He's welcome if he does come back.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
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hornet96
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by hornet96 »

columbia wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:54 am Larry had zero compunction with getting up into other people’s grills, so it seems pretty silly for him to take his ball and go home.
This.

and...
MichCPA wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:31 am .....lets not pretend that the board isn't, well lets go with 'intellectually pretentious".
This.

I highly respect Larry and most of his viewpoints, but the problems arose when a poster would challenge or not understand his viewpoints and he would respond in an increasingly condescending way. People get tired of that pretty quickly and shut out any opportunity to actually learn something about the (often very complex/theoretical) points he is trying to convey. This problem is especially acute on a forum/message board, where things like tone and non-verbal expressions are excluded from the message being communicated. It would frankly be interesting to see how many of Larry's original posts have been locked, and how many of those were due to his escalating condescension.

If Larry ever does decide to come back, he needs to take a serious look at his style of communication on this board. I realize there have been instances where he has felt "attacked" as well (e.g. accusations of covert sales operations, probably this very post, etc.), but I seem to recall many if not most of his responses sounding quite unprofessional when reading through them as an outside observer.
grog
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by grog »

I am actually surprised any financial adviser would post here under their own name. If they agree, they are undermining their business and if they don't agree they are probably going to get roasted. Larry was one of the few willing to come into the lion's den. Like many, I found him very knowledgeable and informed and enjoyed his comments about "contango" and so forth even when I was not usually on board with his conclusions. He was a good complement to a lot of us amateurs. But I can also see why people were critical of his wilder recommendations and I largely agreed with the counterarguments. The critics were saying that he is too quick to jump on the bandwagon of the latest and greatest "alt" fund and they felt he was too stubborn to recognize mistakes. Larry took the comments as attacks on his character. (In my mind there is a distinction between dishonesty, conflict of interest, and cognitive bias and I think the lines can be pretty fine in some cases). The thing is that an adviser's entire business is his reputation, so I think they are naturally more defensive of their recommendations than a regular pseudonymous poster and will see a lot of things as personal attacks.

I read both of the threads that got heated although I did not participate in either discussion. Both threads were (not coincidentally) about Larry's recommendation of more controversial "alternative" funds. The first (from 2017) was about reinsurance. The second was about the long/short "multi-factor" AQR fund. In general I do not feel like the forum is overly orthodox and I think it's actually quite tolerant of strategies that are miles away from from "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle." Factors, long bonds, gold, active funds. Lots of variation in opinion and plenty of willingness to indulge even some pretty crazy stuff. But I think these "alt" recommendations are going to set off a lot of alarm bells (inscrutable, unproven, high cost, and so on) and you have to expect push-back on something like that, especially if the investment is being sold as reducing risk.
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1789
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by 1789 »

I like reading Larry’s books and learn so much from them. We should feel lucky to have people like him in this forum. Personal attacks are for weak and insecure people.
"My conscience wants vegetarianism to win over the world. And my subconscious is yearning for a piece of juicy meat. But what do i want?" (Andrei Tarkovsky)
lukestuckenhymer
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by lukestuckenhymer »

I have found BH to be the most tightly moderated board I've ever seen, and that's a good thing. The slightest ad hominem, mention of politics or anything off-topic, it will likely be gone within hours. And this is on top of the fact that the user base is generally tame to begin with! When it comes to the internet, the unfettered exchange of ideas and debate opens up for a little unruliness, but that's part of the bargain. BH and the internet in general has given me so much insight into investing. I can't imagine what my portfolio would look like without it. Thanks Larry (and thanks Bogleheads for introducing me to Larry's insights)!
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Doc
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Doc »

grog wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:08 pm I am actually surprised any financial adviser would post here under their own name.
I don't think he is actually a financial adviser.
Chief Research Officer
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Larry Swedroe

Since joining the firm in 1996, Chief Research Officer Larry Swedroe has spent his time, talent and energy educating investors on the benefits of evidence-based investing with enthusiasm few can match.
https://buckinghamadvisor.com/people/larry-swedroe/
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.
Broken Man 1999
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Random Walker wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:04 pm All of our views have been affected by recency bias and confirmation bias. Over the last 10-11 years the simple low cost TSM approach has blown everything else away. Bogle’s “Cost Matters Hypothesis”, while always true, has been especially true over this time period. The wisdom of modern portfolio theory has taken a bit of a back seat during this extended US Large Growth bull market. It will be interesting to see if the forum tenor becomes more open minded to diversification across independent sources of risk/return during the next equity bear. I agree with Larry that the forum has sort of developed a religious zealot tunnel vision flavor. That zealotry is sure based on solid principles, but it’s not necessarily the whole story.

Dave
I don't mind the zealots EXCEPT for the fact they tend to carpet bomb discussions outside the group think, an annoying distraction. It would be nice if those who don't want to explore outside the lines would simply not participate in the discussion(s). Simple courtesy, one would think.

Broken Man 1999
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averagedude
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by averagedude »

Thanks for sharing your insights. If you ever change your mind in the future, we will take you back with open arms.
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by abuss368 »

The conflicts or personal attacks, while I am not aware of anything, is unfortunate. We must continue to keep our forum the best place on the internet and a healthy forum that includes good dialogue and thoughts.
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BionicBillWalsh
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by BionicBillWalsh »

Good dialogue and thoughts are great.

Thinking individuals with varying opinions, experience, and a willingness to share them are the reason most of us are here.

Running someone off the forum because they're not a platitude-zombie is dismaying.
Last edited by BionicBillWalsh on Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Day9
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Day9 »

columbia wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:54 am 1. Sorry to read that Larry left again.
2. Larry had zero compunction with getting up into other people’s grills, so it seems pretty silly for him to take his ball and go home.
People would call Larry nasty names like "Shill", and worse, and accuse him of only posting here for his own financial gain. The reality is his twitter bio says "My life's mission is to educate people about the right way to invest." and all evidence points to that being a sincere message. On the other hand, Larry would never do anything like that to others and he would back up all his posts with rational arguments & evidence. So your point 2 is pretty silly, not Larry.
I'm just a fan of the person I got my user name from
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:10 pm
Random Walker wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:04 pm All of our views have been affected by recency bias and confirmation bias. Over the last 10-11 years the simple low cost TSM approach has blown everything else away. Bogle’s “Cost Matters Hypothesis”, while always true, has been especially true over this time period. The wisdom of modern portfolio theory has taken a bit of a back seat during this extended US Large Growth bull market. It will be interesting to see if the forum tenor becomes more open minded to diversification across independent sources of risk/return during the next equity bear. I agree with Larry that the forum has sort of developed a religious zealot tunnel vision flavor. That zealotry is sure based on solid principles, but it’s not necessarily the whole story.

Dave
I don't mind the zealots EXCEPT for the fact they tend to carpet bomb discussions outside the group think, an annoying distraction. It would be nice if those who don't want to explore outside the lines would simply not participate in the discussion(s). Simple courtesy, one would think.

Broken Man 1999
+1
tombonneau
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by tombonneau »

Doom&Gloom wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:43 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:10 pm
Random Walker wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:04 pm All of our views have been affected by recency bias and confirmation bias. Over the last 10-11 years the simple low cost TSM approach has blown everything else away. Bogle’s “Cost Matters Hypothesis”, while always true, has been especially true over this time period. The wisdom of modern portfolio theory has taken a bit of a back seat during this extended US Large Growth bull market. It will be interesting to see if the forum tenor becomes more open minded to diversification across independent sources of risk/return during the next equity bear. I agree with Larry that the forum has sort of developed a religious zealot tunnel vision flavor. That zealotry is sure based on solid principles, but it’s not necessarily the whole story.

Dave
I don't mind the zealots EXCEPT for the fact they tend to carpet bomb discussions outside the group think, an annoying distraction. It would be nice if those who don't want to explore outside the lines would simply not participate in the discussion(s). Simple courtesy, one would think.

Broken Man 1999
+1
+1,000,000
TheDDC
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by TheDDC »

MichCPA wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:31 am Its more cordial in that you are less likely to be verbally assaulted, but lets not pretend that the board isn't, well lets go with 'intellectually pretentious".
I will defend the board thusly from the "intellectually pretentious" label: We do not exactly require ascent to ideological purity at BH, but we at least come here and share some of our common beliefs including passive equity investing, low/no cost funds, and being able to DIY. When someone comes on here pushing market timing, "alts", slick pitches, "proven strategies", slice and dice, complicated and expensive active funds, etc. they get called out and rightly so.

While I don't think Larry Swedroe came off as being a pusher, there may have been a post or two that gave off a whiff and rattled the cage.

I know I don't visit here to be convinced (or not) to move to active, complicated, pricey funds or pay an adviser for something I do myself.

-TheDDC
Rules to wealth building: 75-80% VTSAX piled high and deep, 20-25% VTIAX, 0% given away to banks, minimize amount given to medical-industrial complex
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

TheDDC wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:06 pm
MichCPA wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:31 am Its more cordial in that you are less likely to be verbally assaulted, but lets not pretend that the board isn't, well lets go with 'intellectually pretentious".
I will defend the board thusly from the "intellectually pretentious" label: We do not exactly require ascent to ideological purity at BH, but we at least come here and share some of our common beliefs including passive equity investing, low/no cost funds, and being able to DIY. When someone comes on here pushing market timing, "alts", slick pitches, "proven strategies", slice and dice, complicated and expensive active funds, etc. they get called out and rightly so.

While I don't think Larry Swedroe came off as being a pusher, there may have been a post or two that gave off a whiff and rattled the cage.

I know I don't visit here to be convinced (or not) to move to active, complicated, pricey funds or pay an adviser for something I do myself.

-TheDDC
It is simple enough to not read/discuss posts that do not interest you, no? Me, I like to read diverse investing posts. I wasn't aware that other ideas were so frightening for some to read. Are we not adults? This is a forum that has many, many participants who are not wedded to every position of the echo chamber. This forum should allow other views, IMHO.

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cheezit
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by cheezit »

Random Walker wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:04 pm All of our views have been affected by recency bias and confirmation bias. Over the last 10-11 years the simple low cost TSM approach has blown everything else away.
Has it though? With normalized stock/bond and US/Int'l ratios, moderate and severely tilted portfolios with exposure to size, value, quality and term have beaten the 3-fund portfolio over that period. The TSM triumphalism is largely built on 90/10 portfolios beating 60/40 portfolios. So long as you didn't swallow the worm on CCFs or other alts, MPT-ish portfolios have been doing fine.

e: forgot to list quality
Last edited by cheezit on Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Smith1776
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Smith1776 »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:17 pm
It is simple enough to not read/discuss posts that do not interest you, no? Me, I like to read diverse investing posts. I wasn't aware that other ideas were so frightening for some to read. Are we not adults? This is a forum that has many, many participants who are not wedded to every position of the echo chamber. This forum should allow other views, IMHO.

Broken Man 1999
My sentiments exactly. Larry came here not to propagandize or promote slick sales pitches. He came here with down to earth ideas that were backed up by solid research and evidence. He simply wanted to help people.

Time and time again he came along and said you could build more efficient portfolios with factors, alternative investments, and a dose of humility. Yet no one wanted to listen, or even tolerate his amazing contributions.

Now he's gone and this community has lost one of its most credible voices.
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Steve Reading
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Steve Reading »

tombonneau wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:52 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:43 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:10 pm
Random Walker wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:04 pm All of our views have been affected by recency bias and confirmation bias. Over the last 10-11 years the simple low cost TSM approach has blown everything else away. Bogle’s “Cost Matters Hypothesis”, while always true, has been especially true over this time period. The wisdom of modern portfolio theory has taken a bit of a back seat during this extended US Large Growth bull market. It will be interesting to see if the forum tenor becomes more open minded to diversification across independent sources of risk/return during the next equity bear. I agree with Larry that the forum has sort of developed a religious zealot tunnel vision flavor. That zealotry is sure based on solid principles, but it’s not necessarily the whole story.

Dave
I don't mind the zealots EXCEPT for the fact they tend to carpet bomb discussions outside the group think, an annoying distraction. It would be nice if those who don't want to explore outside the lines would simply not participate in the discussion(s). Simple courtesy, one would think.

Broken Man 1999
+1
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+1 that’s what I said on the QSPIX thread.
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Broken Man 1999
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Smith1776 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:22 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:17 pm
It is simple enough to not read/discuss posts that do not interest you, no? Me, I like to read diverse investing posts. I wasn't aware that other ideas were so frightening for some to read. Are we not adults? This is a forum that has many, many participants who are not wedded to every position of the echo chamber. This forum should allow other views, IMHO.

Broken Man 1999
My sentiments exactly. Larry came here not to propagandize or promote slick sales pitches. He came here with down to earth ideas that were backed up by solid research and evidence. He simply wanted to help people.

Time and time again he came along and said you could build more efficient portfolios with factors, alternative investments, and a dose of humility. Yet no one wanted to listen, or even tolerate his amazing contributions.

Now he's gone and this community has lost one of its most credible voices.
Well, the good news is he is still available, and willing to discuss things outside this forum. The forum has lost, but, those are the breaks.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go. " -Mark Twain
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Leif
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Leif »

Note the original posting of this thread was April 2017.

Hopefully this recent departure report is greatly exaggerated.
DB2
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by DB2 »

cheezit wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:21 pm
Random Walker wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:04 pm All of our views have been affected by recency bias and confirmation bias. Over the last 10-11 years the simple low cost TSM approach has blown everything else away.
Has it though? With normalized stock/bond and US/Int'l ratios, moderate and severely tilted portfolios with exposure to size, value, quality and term have beaten the 3-fund portfolio over that period. The TSM triumphalism is largely built on 90/10 portfolios beating 60/40 portfolios. So long as you didn't swallow the worm on CCFs or other alts, MPT-ish portfolios have been doing fine.

e: forgot to list quality
Take out International as some believe, 60% TSM and 40% BND wins.
rascott
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by rascott »

305pelusa wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:24 am
Texanbybirth wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:21 am
nedsaid wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:13 am
Texanbybirth wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:11 am It's either an imposter, or he really hasn't left. Someone was posting with his name only last Sunday.

search.php?author_id=228&sr=posts
Yes, that was his last post and he hasn't logged in since.
He could be on vacation, or busy with work, or tending to a family matter. Who knows?
Can confirm (email) that he’s taking a break from BHs because of how some posters have treated him on this very forum. He used less, shall we say, candid words to describe those posters.

Hopefully he’ll come back again. The guy is ridiculously knowledgeable.


Hopefully just a hiatus.... like it was originally in 2017.

I like to learn things..... and isn't much to learn talking about a total market index fund.
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Leif wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:46 pm Note the original posting of this thread was April 2017.

Hopefully this recent departure report is greatly exaggerated.
Nope. Recent development.

Broken 1999
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azanon
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by azanon »

I had no idea that if you went 4 days without logging into this forum, that users would think that you left permanently. Wow.
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BlueEars
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by BlueEars »

nedsaid wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:08 am It appears that Larry Swedroe has left the Bogleheads forum for good, last I checked he has not logged in since his last post on Sunday. This is a real shame but I can hardly blame him. Certain folks who I won't name would not heed my warnings and alas, he has been driven away from the forum. As I have posted many times, there needs to be a competition for ideas and a need for a friendly "Red Sox fans vs. Yankee fans" rivalry to keep the forum interesting. Now we have been reduced to a mutual admiration society where we congratulate each other over saying how great the 3 fund portfolio is. It is getting to the point where dissenting opinion is not allowed and it has gotten tiresome.

So we have a less interesting forum now and we aren't seeing the lively debates we used to see here. Threads are getting to be more and more like heresy trials and that isn't much fun.
...
Yes, there are several posters here that think they know what a Boglehead should and should not be. In my opinion, there is a need for fresh thinking here. And I'm afraid the early year's decorum has somewhat broken down. I now post pretty infrequently.

One example of newish thoughts is the thread that Willthrill has on trend following. Yes, this is the dreaded idea that market timing might work out. There are 20+ pages there with, in my opinion, too many people tiresomely pointing out the evils of market timing. Many of these posters have not bothered to look back at past thread posts and thus repeat what has been covered.
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Leif
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Leif »

azanon wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:03 pm I had no idea that if you went 4 days without logging into this forum, that users would think that you left permanently. Wow.
That's what I'm wondering. Is it based on some communication from Larry, or just he hasn't logged in for a few days? I've gone a month without logging it, but no one claimed I was gone :wink: .
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by TomatoTomahto »

azanon wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:03 pm I had no idea that if you went 4 days without logging into this forum, that users would think that you left permanently. Wow.
I think someone upthread confirmed it via email.

It wasn’t my style of investing, so I’m agnostic on whether this is a loss for the forum or not.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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hornet96
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by hornet96 »

Day9 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:38 pm
columbia wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:54 am 1. Sorry to read that Larry left again.
2. Larry had zero compunction with getting up into other people’s grills, so it seems pretty silly for him to take his ball and go home.
On the other hand, Larry would never do anything like that to others and he would back up all his posts with rational arguments & evidence. So your point 2 is pretty silly, not Larry.
Emphasis added.

Enjoy a few examples illustrating the style of Larry's interactions with other forum participants, some of which were with very prominent members such as Taylor.
larryswedroe wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:37 pm Taylor
Hate to say that but your comments are not only totally false but disgraceful to make such accusations when you don't know the facts. That's fake news at its worst. You should know better.
larryswedroe wrote: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=261460&p=4170698#p4170698]
Again, I have never had any problem with anyone ever asking a question or asking me to explain things, My thousands of posts, let alone the thousands of PM's I answer regularly (with no expectation of any reward mind you, yet I have to put up with absurd accusations from people like Elysium), as you yourself know.
larryswedroe wrote: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=261460&p=4170438#p4170438
Homer
All I would say is you should avoid making statements of fact that you have literally no clue what you are talking about, And I don't have time to explain why virtually everything you say is so often wrong. And it's one of reasons I don't post. Old saying, it's not what a man doesn't know that gets him in trouble, but what he knows for sure but is not so.
And note I ignore all posts by you anyway---but this was so filled with misinformation thought was worth pointing out
I recall several more examples exist within some of the dividend threads as well, but don't have time to look them all up.

Just to be clear, I often read many of Larry's posts and understood where he was coming from for most of his arguments (I am a financial professional as well). Unfortunately I think he tends to get too caught up in interactions like these with some individual posters, which is too bad because it distracts from the message he is trying to communicate. I don't recall ever seeing posts with a tone like those above coming from the likes of Rick Ferri, for example.
AZAttorney11
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by AZAttorney11 »

hornet96 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:18 pm
Day9 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:38 pm
columbia wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:54 am 1. Sorry to read that Larry left again.
2. Larry had zero compunction with getting up into other people’s grills, so it seems pretty silly for him to take his ball and go home.
On the other hand, Larry would never do anything like that to others and he would back up all his posts with rational arguments & evidence. So your point 2 is pretty silly, not Larry.
Emphasis added.

Enjoy a few examples illustrating the style of Larry's interactions with other forum participants, some of which were with very prominent members such as Taylor.
larryswedroe wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:37 pm Taylor
Hate to say that but your comments are not only totally false but disgraceful to make such accusations when you don't know the facts. That's fake news at its worst. You should know better.
larryswedroe wrote: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=261460&p=4170698#p4170698]
Again, I have never had any problem with anyone ever asking a question or asking me to explain things, My thousands of posts, let alone the thousands of PM's I answer regularly (with no expectation of any reward mind you, yet I have to put up with absurd accusations from people like Elysium), as you yourself know.
larryswedroe wrote: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=261460&p=4170438#p4170438
Homer
All I would say is you should avoid making statements of fact that you have literally no clue what you are talking about, And I don't have time to explain why virtually everything you say is so often wrong. And it's one of reasons I don't post. Old saying, it's not what a man doesn't know that gets him in trouble, but what he knows for sure but is not so.
And note I ignore all posts by you anyway---but this was so filled with misinformation thought was worth pointing out
I recall several more examples exist within some of the dividend threads as well, but don't have time to look them all up.

Just to be clear, I often read many of Larry's posts and understood where he was coming from for most of his arguments (I am a financial professional as well). Unfortunately I think he tends to get too caught up in interactions like these with some individual posters, which is too bad because it distracts from the message he is trying to communicate. I don't recall ever seeing posts with a tone like those above coming from the likes of Rick Ferri, for example.
Nailed it, hornet96.
Montgomery
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Montgomery »

Larry is a smart guy. I don’t agree with everything I’ve read, but who does?

I think this website is a very good financial forum overall, maybe the best. However, there is a fine line between conviction and arrogance. If someone takes up anything outside the mantra of a 3 or 4 fund portfolio, that almost all financial
Advisors are wolves, or have a dissenting opinion this, as a group can be a bit close minded.

I think there is enough to rally around the principles of “bogleheadism” with keeping it simple, keep
Costs low, stay the course, and live under your means that should also allow some variation without being close minded.

Not everyone has hours and hours to research their own finances, even at great cost to themselves. Not everyone has 3-4 funds only. Many could consider “slice and dice” as a form of active management. Nobody’s pure here.

I don’t think Swedroe is thin skinned. It should be a warning of conviction vs group think nastiness, and we should all heed the warning. I wish Larry the best.
Smith1776
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Smith1776 »

nedsaid wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:08 am Now we have been reduced to a mutual admiration society where we congratulate each other over saying how great the 3 fund portfolio is. It is getting to the point where dissenting opinion is not allowed and it has gotten tiresome.
Oh my god. Yes. A thousand times this. I'm glad I'm not the only one here. Those Two Fund Portfolio and Three Fund Portfolio threads are just bizarre to read. It's not even discussion anymore. It's just "You like pizza? OH MY GOODNESS. I LIKE PIZZA, TOO! What a phenomenal coincidence! What a great thread!"

And the "evidence" in those threads being discussed isn't the new and interesting research that people like Larry would bring to the table. It just consists of old Jack Bogle quotes. Appeal to authority isn't evidence. Like... what?
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ray.james
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by ray.james »

305pelusa wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:24 pm
tombonneau wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:52 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:43 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:10 pm
Random Walker wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:04 pm All of our views have been affected by recency bias and confirmation bias. Over the last 10-11 years the simple low cost TSM approach has blown everything else away. Bogle’s “Cost Matters Hypothesis”, while always true, has been especially true over this time period. The wisdom of modern portfolio theory has taken a bit of a back seat during this extended US Large Growth bull market. It will be interesting to see if the forum tenor becomes more open minded to diversification across independent sources of risk/return during the next equity bear. I agree with Larry that the forum has sort of developed a religious zealot tunnel vision flavor. That zealotry is sure based on solid principles, but it’s not necessarily the whole story.

Dave
I don't mind the zealots EXCEPT for the fact they tend to carpet bomb discussions outside the group think, an annoying distraction. It would be nice if those who don't want to explore outside the lines would simply not participate in the discussion(s). Simple courtesy, one would think.

Broken Man 1999
+1
+1,000,000
+1 that’s what I said on the QSPIX thread.
+1

Same with every ASR threads I have read.
I think Larry tries to respond to everyone who quotes him and when a few posters constantly barge and quote the opposite view hammering again and again, it leads down to nonsense. One can choose to reject an idea but letting the debate with information flow just makes for wiser decisions. We can go back a few years where there are some excellent discussions on tail risk from robert, larry, grap, smallhi where similar theories are discussed.

As a forum, the owners/moderators always encouraged value relativism. Hopefully absolutism can be avoided.
When in doubt, http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79939
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Matigas
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Matigas »

So give us all an honest reply. Will anyone really miss the incessant debate over compensated vs. uncompensated risk?
After all, only experts in the field can define the difference.
random user 320
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by random user 320 »

Montgomery wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:22 pm I think this website is a very good financial forum overall, maybe the best.
"Maybe"?? What other forums are in the running? Does Larry still participate in some other forum?

Inquiring minds want to know. :D
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8foot7
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by 8foot7 »

One person making two prominent take-my-toys-and-go-home departures from a
(Checks notes)
Internet message board?

... a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.


Or as my son would say, “whatever.”
columbia
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by columbia »

Smith1776 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:30 pm
nedsaid wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:08 am Now we have been reduced to a mutual admiration society where we congratulate each other over saying how great the 3 fund portfolio is. It is getting to the point where dissenting opinion is not allowed and it has gotten tiresome.
Oh my god. Yes. A thousand times this. I'm glad I'm not the only one here. Those Two Fund Portfolio and Three Fund Portfolio threads are just bizarre to read. It's not even discussion anymore. It's just "You like pizza? OH MY GOODNESS. I LIKE PIZZA, TOO! What a phenomenal coincidence! What a great thread!"

And the "evidence" in those threads being discussed isn't the new and interesting research that people like Larry would bring to the table. It just consists of old Jack Bogle quotes. Appeal to authority isn't evidence. Like... what?
The purpose of those threads is almost purely psychological: to help people stay the course in a sea of uncertainty; in fact, once one gets the basics of low cost index fund investing down, that’s the greatest value of this board. The rest is just gravy, albeit very interesting and educational gravy.
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JAZZISCOOL
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by JAZZISCOOL »

As a relatively newer BH member, I can't comment on Larry's BH posts and what the controversy is or has been. I have heard him speak on several podcasts and have really enjoyed them.

I will say that I like to hear a variety of opinions on topics and find it interesting to have a healthy debate and, of course, to learn. :happy
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whodidntante
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by whodidntante »

hornet96 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:18 pm Unfortunately I think he tends to get too caught up in interactions like these with some individual posters, which is too bad because it distracts from the message he is trying to communicate.
That is the point I was trying to make also.
Montgomery
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Montgomery »

random user 320 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:09 pm
Montgomery wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:22 pm I think this website is a very good financial forum overall, maybe the best.
"Maybe"?? What other forums are in the running? Does Larry still participate in some other forum?

Inquiring minds want to know. :D
Humility 😬
User avatar
andromeda2k12
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by andromeda2k12 »

Here's the link to where he actually says that this is his last post he will make on BH and explains why he is leaving.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=167241&p=4964108#p4964108
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Robert T
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodby."

Post by Robert T »

Robert T wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:19 pm .
I am a better investor from having read Larry Swedroe’s posts (both at vanguard diehards, in the earlier days; and at bogleheads).

His contributions have been immense – both in volume and substance. Much appreciated and needed in a time when individuals increasingly need to take responsibility for financing their own retirement (with the decline of defined benefit pension plans etc).

Some advisors take pot shots at DIY investors, focusing on failures, as what seems to be a way to try to get more business. In contrast, Larry rolls up his sleeves and tries to help.

Larry, thanks for all your contributions.
.
What he said.
.
Morse Code
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Morse Code »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:10 pm
Random Walker wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:04 pm All of our views have been affected by recency bias and confirmation bias. Over the last 10-11 years the simple low cost TSM approach has blown everything else away. Bogle’s “Cost Matters Hypothesis”, while always true, has been especially true over this time period. The wisdom of modern portfolio theory has taken a bit of a back seat during this extended US Large Growth bull market. It will be interesting to see if the forum tenor becomes more open minded to diversification across independent sources of risk/return during the next equity bear. I agree with Larry that the forum has sort of developed a religious zealot tunnel vision flavor. That zealotry is sure based on solid principles, but it’s not necessarily the whole story.

Dave
I don't mind the zealots EXCEPT for the fact they tend to carpet bomb discussions outside the group think, an annoying distraction. It would be nice if those who don't want to explore outside the lines would simply not participate in the discussion(s). Simple courtesy, one would think.

Broken Man 1999
Amen.
Livin' the dream
260chrisb
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by 260chrisb »

Thank you Larry for all you've taught me. All the best to you.
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Nate79
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by Nate79 »

As someone posted some of the posts by Larry he was often condescending and rude to posters who disagreed with his opinion. He attacked others much worse than I think people attacked him personally. Instead people disagreed with him and called him out for flip flopping and instead he attacked them. This site is extremely controlled and kindergarten level tame yet as some of the posts shown above Larry's somehow didn't get deleted for rudeness.

The thread where he announced he was leaving was tame and I didn't see any personal attacks.
james22
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by james22 »

Looking forward to the next Plan B threads.
WildCat48
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Re: Larry Swedroe says "Goodbye."

Post by WildCat48 »

I appreciate Larry and his contributions. I think that most of the attacks were based on his views on the Stone Ridge Funds, which is a shame since I enjoyed the debates on the merits of those funds.
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