Many years ago I met a very knowledgeable author (15 books) and advisor named Larry Swedroe. I asked him to visit the Bogleheads Forum and share his knowledge. He accepted my invitation and has contributed over 15,000 posts.
Larry has decided to stop posting. He explained his reasons for leaving in an e-mail he sent me today (slightly edited):
Taylor,
As to my departure, I'm afraid for a variety of reasons this is highly likely to be permanent. I can spread only so thinly. Also I'm getting near retirement and want to spend more time with family.
Bogleheads were taking up to 10-15 hours a week sometimes. But the main reason is I just got tired of the personal attacks, questioning my integrity--assuming I'm spending all that time and patience answering the same questions for the reason of self-promotion or making money.
First, it's not true. That should be obvious given all the time spent on a DYI site and all the PMs and emails Bogleheads know I answer from people who will never do business with an advisor. I think there have been two Bogleheads who are clients. Do you think I would spend that much time for two clients?
It's simply mostly my way of giving back, trying to help others. That's 90% of it. The other 10% is it's great to debate ideas and have to defend positions, that's how we learn. So I never mind the debates or even answering the same question over and over again. It's the personal attacks. And some people are even clueless, asking for help after they make the accusations.
It's sad that a few bad apples can spoil everything for the majority, but that's the nature of the internet and why most pros won't post on such sites. I see this everywhere. Your moderators do a good job, so not blaming them.
At any rate you can feel free if you like to summarize my reasons for not posting. And you can tell the Bogleheads, as I have told the many who e-mailed or PM'd me that I'm always happy to answer e-mails or PMs, but not posting.
Best wishes.
Larry.
Last edited by Taylor Larimore on Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle
And this is how someone feels on one of the sites that is one of the safest, most polite, and least-attacky on the internet. I assure you it is far worse elsewhere.
Nonetheless, a lesson to be learned by all. How you interact matters.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
I'm relatively new to the forum but have already learned a tremendous amount of information from Mr. Swedroe. He has always seemed open and generous with his professional opinion, and I commend him for sharing his hard-earned wisdom pro bono. I am sad to read his decision to quit participating in the forum, but respect his reasons. Thank you, Mr. Swedroe, for your help as a teacher! I will miss your postings.
Although I am very new as a member, I have read the forum and Mr Swedroe's contributions for many years. Thus I am qualified to say that he has been such an incredible asset to the forum and that it is very upsetting that he is leaving.
One point that I wish to make is his reason, or one of the reasons that he is leaving: personal attacks. One factor that makes this forum so incredible successful is that no matter how much you know (and no doubt Mr. Swedroe is at the top), whatever you are just starting or a veteran in investing, your comments are as equally valued as everybody else's. Thus, I do hope that what Mr. Swedroe is lamenting is truly on personal attacks and not on attacks on his ideas, because if it is the latter, I would say that he is leaving for the wrong reasons.
Again, sorry to see you leaving!
Last edited by Always passive on Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And this is how someone feels on one of the sites that is one of the safest, most polite, and least-attacky on the internet. I assure you it is far worse elsewhere.
Nonetheless, a lesson to be learned by all. How you interact matters.
Yes, the nature of the Internet makes it all too easy for people to hide behind a username and say things that they would never dream of in a face-to-face encounter (or simply if their real identity were known). People have similarly made personal attacks on me on other forums along very much the same lines as those mentioned by Larry. Sadly, it's the nature of humanity.
I'll miss you Larry. We haven't always agreed, but you've been a great contributor on this site, and I've always enjoyed our discussions. You've helped far more people than you realize on this forum, and I'm very grateful to you for that.
Enjoy your upcoming retirement! I have a sneaky idea that you'll be implementing the Larry Portfolio for it...
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
I figured out a long time ago to ignore most comments on internet boards but if you are a widely known figure with a professional reputation working in a customer service industry that's harder to do.
Thank you very much Mr Swedroe. I've learned so much from you! I highly recommend his books. The Only Guide You'll Ever Need for the Right Financial Plan makes a great gift!
I'm just a fan of the person I got my user name from
I'm optimistic that my hack explanations of factors will inspire the emergence of another great teacher. Nature abhors a vacuum. But thanks to Larry I have learned enough to be a hack.
And this is how someone feels on one of the sites that is one of the safest, most polite, and least-attacky on the internet. I assure you it is far worse elsewhere.
Nonetheless, a lesson to be learned by all. How you interact matters.
Well that's too bad. Larry certainly was one poster who brought some intellectual rigor to discussions. I appreciate his answering my questions and will miss hearing his thoughts.
I think Larry was an easy target for a population naturally inclined to take the default position of being hostile toward advisors. Also, he's really the only person I can think of--over the past few years I've been here--who frequently posted links to his own articles, even starting new threads for them. While I believe his motivations may have been altruistic, I can't help but think his departure can be traced beyond personal attacks to a failure of board policy and/or the communication of policy (to those doing the attacking) on this and related matters of "solicitation."
Thank you, Larry, from a rare poster, but constant reader, for the cogent, intellectual and reasoned discipline you brought to the discussion and for your selfless sharing of links on ideas we should consider. Like the vast majority, I have benefited immensely from your contributions to this forum, even more so from your books. Enjoy your new path.
As Larry notes, the regular cycle of questions have been answered and are searchable in this forum by author. The nature of the investment approach prescribed is simple and relatively easy to understand. Staying the course is the challenge and while people can offer support, only we have determine whether we will stick with a proven approach.
Larry's contributions will be available to help countless other readers while he goes on to other pursuits. He has left quite a gift!
Thanks for all your contributions, Larry ... they are deeply appreciated ... and your depth of knowledge and willingness to share is a good example for all of us.
And this is how someone feels on one of the sites that is one of the safest, most polite, and least-attacky on the internet. I assure you it is far worse elsewhere.
Nonetheless, a lesson to be learned by all. How you interact matters.
+1
Pretty much took the words off the tips of my fingers.
In 2004, announcing that he would shut down his long-essay blog USS Clueless, the late Steven den Beste wrote:
I've learned something interesting: if you give away ice cream, eventually a lot of people will complain about the flavors, and others will complain that you aren't also giving away syrup and whipped cream and nuts.
Thanks for your books and blog posts, Mr. Swedroe. You taught me a lot. I'm going to miss you.
I too have greatly appreciated Larry's comments, particularly recently as I've been learning more about the "Larry Portfolio" concept and its variants.
And I completely understand that he would want to step away from a forum where he felt personally attacked.
While this forum is for the most part very supportive, you have to admit that there are a fair number of "smartest guy in the room" comments from posters --- at least that's how it "sounds" when typed.
Unfortunately, the nature of digital communication, whether email or discussion forums, is that typed comments almost always sound less friendly and more hostile than one intends. If everyone were in the same room, body language would tone things done.
Perhaps the moderators could observe the board with "civil discourse" in mind It would be a shame for visitors to fear posting on the forum, or experts to bow out for fear of being personally attacked.
Indeed how many posters have started their first post with "have been lurking for a while and now posting my first....."
Is the forum really as friendly as it could be?
I don't blame him at all. I've basically been told on this forum that I'm stupid for having the dealer change the oil on my car. I try very hard to make my posts noncontroversial, but some people just love to argue.
Thanks for you contribution to the board, I learned an immense amount from your posts. One of my recommendations to friends who ask me about investing: "anything written by Larry Swedroe is worth reading"
Sad day that we lost such a valuable contributor to the board.
JoinToday
I wish I had learned about index funds 25 years ago
At age 71, I look back and ask how many people I have positively impacted (outside of immediate family). For some of us, me included, the answer is "very few" and the impact was quite small -- leading to a disappointing view of one's life. You, however, are in a totally different place, having impacted thousands of people very significantly in what is arguably one of the most important aspects of their lives. You are truly a luck man, having had such impact in a field you love ad for which you have such passion. Thank you for your contributions. Enjoy your upcoming retirement.
I will say that when got started, the worst advice I got was in ~1974, "invest in money market funds". That free advice was from older bro, newly minted PhD, at FRBNY. The best advice was from my supervisor who was working part-time with Waddell. He showed us, the Rule of 72 and Dollar Cost Averaging. We paid him/WR, 8.5% for funding two IRA s. He made the house call, travelling 60 miles one way.
YMMV GL
Rev012718; 4 Incm stream buckets: SS+pension; dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rentals. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax TBT%. Early SS. FundRatio (FR) >1.1 67/70yo
Thanks Larry, I learned a great deal from your posts and books. I also admired your patience when you would continually answer the same questions over and over again. The posters who continually attacked you should leave instead. C'est La Vie. I'm saddened by your departure, but am happy that you'll have more time to spend with your family.
Thanks for your great service to investors, Larry. I, for one, will likely visit Bogleheads less frequently without you here. Really appreciated having a true professional weigh in at times on these boards.
Thank you for all your help on this forum and in your books, Larry! In an industry designed to take money from regular Joe's, you diligently provided advice and steered investors away from disaster, even though low-cost, passive investments do little to help advisors put food on the table.
I'm particularly thankful for your popularization of the Larry Portfolio, which i think is a highly intelligent approach to wealth preservation for those close to retirement or weary of large drawdowns.
I am sorry to see you leave the Forum. I have learned so much from your posts as well as your books. I totally understand your decision, however, after having read some of the threads. I regret not having posted more often to thank you for your contributions.
You will be missed. I will look for your posts on other sites. Please accept my best wishes to you & your family.
As Larry notes, the regular cycle of questions have been answered and are searchable in this forum by author. The nature of the investment approach prescribed is simple and relatively easy to understand. Staying the course is the challenge and while people can offer support, only we have determine whether we will stick with a proven approach.
Larry's contributions will be available to help countless other readers while he goes on to other pursuits. He has left quite a gift!
Agree with all thoughts and sentiments thus far, and particularly appreciated the above from WhyNotUs. Yes, it's a shame that a small, though persistent level of snarkiness has "tipped" Larry Swedroe toward retiring from posting on the forum. But, fact is, so many of his answers and interactions were variations on old themes. They remain available for future reference.
Let me add my sincere thanks, Larry, for your remarkable commitment and contributions to this forum.
"We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are." Anais Nin |
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"Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious." George Orwell
It is unfortunate the Larry has stopped posting. His books and posts have made me rethink some of my ideas. There are a lot of snarky comments on this site, but most posters are quite polite. This site is a lot better than others about monitoring for offensive comments. If one can add "you idiot" to a snarky post without changing its meaning maybe one should not hit Submit.
Good luck in the future Larry and enjoy your upcoming retirement.
Your true fans know that you are a 100% class act Larry. You're on my Mount Rushmore of investing gurus and your advice has simply been invaluable to me and my family. Your ability to take complicated topics and distill them down to the essentials for the average investor is simply unmatched. I will be forever grateful. Thanks so much.
