Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

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maximuum
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Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by maximuum » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:29 pm

Hello,

I was curious what the Bogleheads thought of Paul Merriman's UB&H portfolios he set up on Motif investing. I think this could be a very good alternative to traditional robo-advisors. Perhaps the Bogleheads could even set up factor based (i.e. size value .2/.3/.4) or low dividend taxable motifs of stocks there in the future. Seems to be very cheap and innovative. The only downside I see is that tax loss harvesting would be difficult, and I'm not sure how the ETF trades are executed.

Here is his link:

http://paulmerriman.com/highlights-motif-investing/

and an example of a taxable equity portfolio:

https://www.motifinvesting.com/motifs/u ... e-afc9Tf94
Last edited by maximuum on Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jags4186
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Re: Merriman Ultimate Buy and Hold RoboAdvisor

Post by Jags4186 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:51 pm

Like Paul Merriman.

Problem is if you try to implement his strategy and you have a large 401k balance. It's impossible to replicate--at least with my options.

maximuum
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Re: Merriman Ultimate Buy and Hold RoboAdvisor

Post by maximuum » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:55 pm

I would envision using this tax efficiently. So use his UB&H motif in taxable and then available cheap bond funds in tax deferred. I agree this could be difficult to implement in tax deferred if specific funds aren't available.

CyclingDuo
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Re: Merriman Ultimate Buy and Hold RoboAdvisor

Post by CyclingDuo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:17 pm

maximuum wrote:Hello,

I was curious what the Bogleheads thought of Paul Merriman's UB&H portfolios he set up on Motif investing. I think this could be a very good alternative to traditional robo-advisors. Perhaps the Bogleheads could even set up factor based (i.e. size value .2/.3/.4) or low dividend taxable motifs of stocks there in the future. Seems to be very cheap and innovative. The only downside I see is that tax loss harvesting would be difficult, and I'm not sure how the ETF trades are executed.

Here is his link:

http://paulmerriman.com/highlights-motif-investing/

and an example of a taxable equity portfolio:

https://www.motifinvesting.com/motifs/u ... e-afc9Tf94


There are lots of good threads in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum on Paul and the Ultimate B&H.


The White Coat Investor lists it in the "list" of various portfolios: http://whitecoatinvestor.com/150-portfo ... han-yours/


This blog covers it as well:

https://portfoliocharts.com/2015/11/09/ ... portfolio/

maximuum
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Re: Merriman Ultimate Buy and Hold RoboAdvisor

Post by maximuum » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:16 pm

The point of this post was to point out he picked out many target allocation portfolios utilizing his best etf picks in Motif investing (rather than Vanguard, Fidelity, etc). Motif will execute up to 30 trades (including fractional shares) for $9.95. The etf picks Merriman includes are many mentioned on here (i.e. RZV and DLS for domestic and international small value). I think it is a great way to get an advisor recommended portfolio for $9.95. You can rebalance at any time back to the original target allocation for $9.95. I think the motif platform could be a simple way to get a roboadvisor type portfolio for next to nothing cost wise.

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nedsaid
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Re: Merriman Ultimate Buy and Hold RoboAdvisor

Post by nedsaid » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:22 pm

This is a lot more appealing than paying 1% for a management fee. Is there access to DFA funds?
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maximuum
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Re: Merriman Ultimate Buy and Hold RoboAdvisor

Post by maximuum » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:30 pm

No access to DFA. Motif is really a brokerage platform that allows a basket of 30 trades for $9.95. I believe the etf trades are market orders though. Again, it does allow fractional shares though. Merriman was kind enough to load up a plethora of his recommended UB&H recommended portfolios so the average Joe can have his recommended allocation with one click. I think it is far superior to the roboadvisors in price.

iamlucky13
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Re: Merriman Ultimate Buy and Hold RoboAdvisor

Post by iamlucky13 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:38 pm

I think he's asking mainly about using Motif to implement Merriman's UB&H, rather than about the portfolio itself. Maybe edit the title to include Motif so anybody who uses the company knows this thread is relevant?

I'm not familiar with Motif and am having trouble figuring out exactly their structure. It looks like a single portfolio of up to 30 funds (Merriman's are all ~10, so that's fine) can be bought for a single $9.95 transaction, which is a tidy savings over 10 x $4.95.

I don't think the basic account is a Robo-advisor - it just lets you do those grouped trades or "motifs." It sounds like Impact is their robo-advisor option, with a $9.95/month fee. Blue is a simpler account with automated investing and rebalancing with a starting rate of $4.95/month for a single "motif."

If that's accurate, the basic Motif trading account sounds like a very cheap way to buy and rebalance a basket of ETF's, and Blue might be a reasonable choice for an IRA if you make regular contributions.

They also say you can buy fractional shares, but dividends aren't reinvested until they reach at least $250. Their FAQ says the trades are real time.

Merriman seems to have pre-configured dozens of varations of his UB&H on the site, for taxable or tax-deferred, with 50:50 or 70:30 US/International, and with varying allocations of equity and bonds. For example:
https://www.motifinvesting.com/motifs/u ... d-His2nguw

I'm not seeing any red flags so far.

paul merriman
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by paul merriman » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:07 am

I have done a couple of podcasts and an article on using Motif services. My hope is to twist the arms of some of my friends in the business to convince them to "do the right thing" by offering their own Motifs. For those who are not aware, anybody can create a Motif and offer it to the public. While it won't be enough to cover the cost of running my foundation (http://www.merrimanfinancialeducation.org/), Motif pays a Motif Creator $1 of the $9.95. I have a number of additional Motifs on the way. I think the most useful new Motif may be my target date Motifs, as it will allow me, and those running my foundation after I'm really retired or dead, to offer the glide path for followers. It is amazing that these portfolios can be managed with an annual rebalance at a cost of $9.95. So theoretically, over a 40 year period, the total out of pocket cost (other than ETF expenses) will be $400. Plus, you don't have to rebalance every year but that's the way the pick up the changes in the glide path, as well as upgrades to the recommended ETFs. By the way, for those who think it's terrible that my foundation is getting compensation, the total compensation to the foundation will amount to $40. By the way, you can set it up so that my foundation gets nothing. You can simply grab my Motif and replicate in your own custom account. I suspect, as I have a lot of followers who are engineers, many will grab by Motif and make changes to the asset classes (adding, subtracting and selecting different ETFs). My hope is to reach investors who have no interest in all the discussions that we all find great fun. My hope is parents and grandparents will guide their children into my work and benefit from a lifetime of smart saving, investing and spending. I think it's probably unproductive for most people to learn most of what we think it so important. Since 2013 I have been sending Western Washington University $10,000 a quarter to teach a class on investing for non finance majors. You may find it humorous that they receive almost 40 hours of instruction on investing and P/E ratios are never mentioned. What I believe these students will do with their savings is DCA into their 401k/IRA in low cost index funds. They will hopefully never pay a commission (maybe %9.95 once a year) or get snookered by Wall Street. Here is a link to my Motif page on my website. For those who are interested I'm working on about 50 FAQs that have been coming in since introducing the service. I will be speaking at the AAII Conference later this year. My topic will be Beyond Buffet: Everything you need to know about value investing. I hope to see some of you their.

paul merriman
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by paul merriman » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:09 am

Forgot to post Motif page. I hope it helps. http://paulmerriman.com/motif-investing/

imabeliever
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by imabeliever » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:13 am

i like motiff - i have an IRA there and i have several family members who also have motiff brokerage accounts.

my only word of caution is - they don't reinvest dividends from ETF's - you have to do that yourself. individual stocks they will reinvest if you are holding the shares directly. this is called out on their FAQ page as well...but if you aren't aware of it going in and set up your portfolio and come back in a few months to take a look, you'll have a little ugly surprise waiting for you.

otherwise, it's a really nice platform with a lot of flexibility - but it is definitely not "just like Fidelity, Vanguard, Schwab, etc".

Edit: FAQ https://www.motifinvesting.com/faq/will ... -dividends
yes you can do this!

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prudent
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by prudent » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:46 pm

Topic moved to Investing - Theory, News and General.

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elgob.bogle
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by elgob.bogle » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:20 pm

Thanks Paul, for jumping in early and clarifying. I have a sister who may interested in this, and will forward to her the link to this thread.

elgob

Small Law Survivor
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by Small Law Survivor » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:27 pm

So dividends are not automatically reinvested? - Does that mean you need to go into the account every few months (or less) and hit the "invest" button, which will then invest the money in the ETFs in your Motif?

MikeT
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by MikeT » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:10 pm

@Paul, first let me thank you for all that you do. You've really had a major impact on my financial life. In the last month, I back-listened to 2 years of your podcasts and was about to execute your 10 fund ultimate portfolio.

When I learned that you partnered with Motif, I was delighted because it looked like an easy, actionable way to execute your proposed allocations.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but is there any chance that the people over at Motif have deliberately complicated your allocations to make it more likely that someone will find it too complicated to do manually and just let them do it?

Specifically, I'm wondering why some funds are 2.6% of the portfolio (15 etf's total). Some folks here have said that the 10 stock Merriman allocation was too complicated and suggested simpler ones. With 15 ETFs, this feels a bit much.

Since I have 8 types of accounts between my spouse and me, I need to balance across account types so I'm not going to use Motif.

I think I need to collapse and consolidate an 80/20 motif into something manageable, picking appropriate ETF's to have in my taxable and non-taxable accounts.

And, I'm having some sticker shock with some ER at .58%. That seems expensive. I need to dig into it and see if there are some cheaper alternatives without forcing myself into vanguard funds exclusively.

Nonetheless, I learned so much from your podcasts and really feel like I have a good perspective on the history of investing and will now be able to set proper expectations.

With much appreciation for your work,
Mike

imabeliever
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by imabeliever » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:25 pm

Small Law Survivor wrote:So dividends are not automatically reinvested? - Does that mean you need to go into the account every few months (or less) and hit the "invest" button, which will then invest the money in the ETFs in your Motif?


Yes, that's exactly what that means.
yes you can do this!

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whodidntante
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by whodidntante » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:33 pm

I think the portfolio is fine if you are looking to tilt as he advocates. I wouldn't buy the Motif, but then again I wouldn't buy any Motif unless I was doing it to earn a bonus. Instead I would buy the ETFs individually so I can TLH, rebalance, etc. as I see fit.

iamlucky13
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by iamlucky13 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:46 am

Thanks for filling in extra details on Motif Paul. As long as you're here, I also want to state my appreciation for your First Time Investor e-book. It got me pointed in the right direction when I realized I needed to better educate myself on investing.

whodidntante wrote:I think the portfolio is fine if you are looking to tilt as he advocates. I wouldn't buy the Motif, but then again I wouldn't buy any Motif unless I was doing it to earn a bonus. Instead I would buy the ETFs individually so I can TLH, rebalance, etc. as I see fit.


You can tilt to a lesser degree if you want. You just have to create your own "motif" instead of using one of Paul's premade versions. Or you can stay market weighted, but in that case a 3 or 4 fund portfolio should be all you need, and the benefit of using their motif format seems reduced.

It looks to me like you actually do hold the ETF's individually. You just buy them in a lump to save on the transaction fees when you want, or individually if desired. So I can't see why you wouldn't be able to still rebalance and TLH as you see fit.

Enacting up to 30 trades as a group for $9.95 sounds a bit too good to be true, but I'm not finding any catch so far.

Johnnie
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by Johnnie » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:55 am

Paul Merriman probably saved my retirement, because his MW articles finally captured my imagination and converted me from an ignorant, no-plan speculator with no clue how to invest properly into a fully-informed buy-hold-rebalance Boglehead type investor - Merriman wing. And along the way provided a complete retirement investing primer in his Marketwatch articles, podcasts and website.

Like many here I won't be using Motif because of complex accounts mix - plus I just finally completed an 18 month conversion of same into The Ultimate, spread among a Roth, an IRA and a 401k. And that's fine, because (my sad prior ignorance aside) Bogleheads are mostly capable of executing an Ultimate (or their own ultimate) independently: It's younger and less experienced investors who will probably gain the most from this I'm guessing.
"I know nothing."

MikeMak27
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by MikeMak27 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:08 am

Paul,

Thank you for all that you have done in helping those who were getting fleeced by high cost advisory and investment services. Without a doubt, your articles on small cap value have changed my life with regards to my own asset allocation and how I can achieve financial freedom far earlier than I ever would have. If my business goes as planned, I want to start a $3000 investment account for my future children because of your advice on how this amount can compound into an extraordinary portfolio for their retirement.
Mac 3 fund portfolio: 45% US small cap value (IJS, VBR), 35% Emerging Markets (IEMG, VWO, FPMAX), 20% intermediate term US treasuries (FIBAX, IEF) & Cash

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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:49 pm

I read quite a bit of Merriman's materials in the early days of fashioning my portfolio. I use ETFs for slice and dice, but I also don't see the attraction of using Motif. As new money accumulates, I use it to buy the allocation slices that are lagging to help keep balance.
This week's fortune cookie: "The stock market may be your ticket to success." I sure hope so!

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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by oldcomputerguy » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:51 pm

How would this be different from Fidelity's "basket" trading feature?
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One Ping
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by One Ping » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:00 pm

oldcomputerguy wrote:How would this be different from Fidelity's "basket" trading feature?

A quick look (i.e., I could be wrong) seemed to indicate that only stocks can be bought in a Fidelity 'basket'. Also it seems your initial allocation options are quite restricted.

fidelity website wrote:How do I allocate my basket?
Allocation weightings for baskets can be established using one of the following methods:

Dollar weighting
Distributes the dollar amount equally to each position in the basket.
Share weighting
Distributes shares equally to each position within the basket.
Percentage weighting
Distributes the percentage equally to each position in the basket (similar to dollar weighting)

If you do not select an allocation method, the default allocation is dollar weighting.

One Ping
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CyclingDuo
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by CyclingDuo » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:13 am

oldcomputerguy wrote:How would this be different from Fidelity's "basket" trading feature?


http://paulmerriman.com/fidelity-tax-de ... ortfolios/

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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by paul merriman » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:36 pm

I like Motif for some investors. I don't think there is any reason for large Vanguard accounts to move as Vanguard will give investors access to the ETFs I recommend and large accounts can add those to the portfolio without a commission. I think the most impactful portfolio for do it yourself investors will be a new target date portfolio that should be available in the next 2 weeks. In each case (so far about 70 portfolios) all of our recommendations are listed so people can set up the accounts wherever they like. There are a lot of things I don't like about Motif. Next Wednesday I will publish a podcast that is focused on the things that I hope Motif will improve in the future. If you want to look at the portfolios go to the Motif website, click on resources, then "explore Motifs, then "all community Motifs", then search for merriman diversified. You might like what I have done but want to make a change in the asset allocation. Motif allows you to start with my portfolio and then customize it to your bias. The portfolio that has attracted the most interest so far is the all value portfolio. For those who have followed my "Fine Tuning Your Asset Allocation Table", you may find it interesting to compare the return and risk of a massively diversified large, small, value, growth, U.S. and international portfolio with an all value portfolio. I'm sure you will find lots of ways to do it better, What I really like about Motif is the low portfolio total trading cost of $9.95. Then when you are ready to rebalance you simply push a button and the whole portfolio goes back (approximately) to the original asset allocation. I rarely see a case that calls for rebalancing more than once a year. I new money is added right before the rebalancing the total trading costs would be $9.95. That suggests that the portfolio can be managed for $10 a year. We will be updating our portfolios so all you have to do is make your own changes to your account, or accept mine, and the work is done. I don't expect any of you to simply accept my suggestions but I'll bet you have friends who have no idea who the Bogleheads are but still need the kind of low cost investing you believe in. I suspect in the coming years that Vanguard will be able to do the automatic rebalancing that Motif is doing. Motif even allow partial share purchases. Something else that I hope Vanguard will offer. I have developed a Motif page at my website. You might find the podcast and Q&A of interest. I must have 100 Q&A I have to get to. Yikes! Please be warned that if you use one of my recommended Motifs, my foundation gets $1 or the $9.95. For those who don't want that $1 going to my foundation all you have to do is open up a custom motif and copy what I am doing. For those of you who are sensitive to these kind of matters it is important to know that according to the By Laws of my foundation, no officer or director can receive any compensation. But when I attend the AAII Conference in Orlando (I'm speaking on the all value portfolio) my foundation will pay for all the handouts as well as pay any legitimate travel expenses. All the best, Paul

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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by paul merriman » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:52 pm

I agree that not automatically reinvesting dividends is a challenge. It is on my list of 10 things I don't like about Motif. What I suggest is you put your annual IRA contribution early in the year. When both the dividends and the new cash are in the account you do your annual rebalance. I realize that's not going to work for everyone but It should take care of those in IRAs. In my next newsleter I will talk about how to dollar cost average and keep the costs as low as possible. Of course the very best DCA I know is to make your contribution the very first business day of the year. If you do that every year that is the most powerful for of DCA I know.

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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by JohnnyM » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:28 pm

I am one person who is making the move from Vanguard over to Motif for all of the reasons that Paul is mentioned, most significantly for me being the ease of rebalancing versus doing it on my own.

I thought before I pulled the trigger that I would come over and see if there was any discussion at bogleheads so this thread is perfect.

If the moderator thanks my questions below should be moved to a separate thread he can obviously do so, but I do think my questions would be helpful to anyone making the move to Motif who currently has a Paul Merriman portfolio and does the rebalancing themselves.

I want to ask Paul and of course anyone who wants to offer their opinions the following.

My relevant information:

My current holdings at Vanguard is:
- the "Paul Merriman's ultimate buy-and-hold tax-deferred Vanguard" portfolio, moderate 60s:40b.
- But because holding some individual stocks that will be sold over the next year, I am actually 65s: 35b, which is fine for me, I even comfortable with 70s: 30b, I will just be on a glide path towards 60s:40b by age 65 by way of adding the necessary percent bonds at rebalancing

Age 55, assume I will retire at age 65 but honestly I will probably work beyond that.

Accounts: 3, one SEP-IRA and 2 Roth IRAs to be considered as one Roth IRA.
Account values: 50% SEP IRA +50% Roth IRA. The dollar amounts lead me to believe that I will be fine in retirement so not sure dollar amounts are relevant but you can say $740K.

At motif I will obviously have the option to purchase a single motif of my choice which is, as mentioned is "Paul Merriman's ultimate buy-and-hold tax-deferred best in class moderate 60s:40b " portfolio,.

My question is, do you think it makes sense to have bonds in the Roth IRA portion of my portfolio? I am thinking to put all of the bonds in my SEP IRA portion, any opinions on my thinking?

Also, if it DOES make the most sense to put all the bonds in the SEP IRA, that would mean that I could not buy the SINGLE motif "Merriman's 60s:40b" for my SEP IRA because the SEP IRA is only half the total portfolio value. So this is what I am thinking and would appreciate your comments on:
1- for the Roth IRA buy "Merriman's aggressive 100s:0b"
2- for the SEP IRA buy Merriman's conservative 40s:60b because the would mean a TOTAL portfolio value of bonds would be 30% which is desired at this time ( 50 x .6 = .30 = 30% bonds).

I have never asked a question here and not learned something I was unaware from your comments and so I am hoping to get your opinions.

Thanks in advance

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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by bglhead1987 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:01 pm

Hello!

This is my first time posting on the bogleheads forum. I am 30 years old and found Paul Merriman's work a few years ago. Since then, I have listened to all of his podcasts and thoroughly absorbed the information on his website and his books etc.

I have also been reading a lot of the threads on bogleheads for years and love the information and getting to see various people all add in their point of view etc.

Anyway, today I created an account so that I can ask this question:

First a little background. Although I am mentioning my own specific situation here, my broader question certainly applies to anyone considering opening a Motif account. I opened an account at Vanguard in 2012 and have been maxing out a Roth IRA every year since. My portfolio there is currently invested similarly to the 100% stock Vanguard Mutual Fund Portfolio that Paul Merriman lists on his website. I have recently been looking over his "Best-in-class" ETF recommendations and find them very attractive. I think I would like to implement a Paul Merriman "Best in Class" strategy and am trying to decide between using the Motif website or using my vanguard account to purchase the same ETFs. I feel the in making this choice, the main consideration is weighing the initial commission cost savings that Motif would provide against the fact that I believe (and please correct me if I am wrong) that Vanguard would automatically reinvest dividends for me whereas Motif would let them accumulate until the next time I pay the 9.95 to rebalance. I read Paul's recommendation (earlier in this thread) about contributing the full year's IRA contribution early in the year, then rebalance for 9.95 while both the dividends and new contribution is still there and that certainly sounds like the best idea if I end up going with Motif.

To me, I am good at thinking in extremes but unsure how to do the specific math involved in making the determination of which is best for me. This is how I picture the 2 extreme ends of the spectrum:

(These are purely hypotheticals that I am using to try to explain my question, please ignore the fact that if you only have a 100 dollars, as in case #1, you probably shouldn't be paying even the "small" 9.95 offered at Motif, as it represents a whopping 10 percent of your portfolio. These hypotheticals are both assuming that you are fully committed to using Paul's Best in Class Recommendations, at 2 extreme ends of the portfolio-size spectrum.)

Case #1: Someone with a portfolio size of 100 dollars: To me Motif seems to be the clear choice for this person because 9.95 x 1 is much less than 7 dollars (the commission at Vanguard to trade non-Vanguard ETFS) for EACH ETF. So much would be saved in initial commissions by choosing Motif that the few pennies in commissions that would end up accumulating on such a small principal amount would certainly not be an issue large enough to tilt the advantage in Vanguard's favor.

Case #2: Someone with over a million dollars in their portfolio: Being that this person would get 25 FREE trades a year from Vanguard for having over a million dollars, the clear choice to me in this situation would be to go with Vanguard. This person would save the 9.95 initially and with each reinvestment AND would benefit from the automatic reinvestments of dividends that Vanguard provides.

Both those cases seem very clear to me. However, I am far from either of those extremes. My portfolio is in a range that Vanguard would charge me 7 dollars per ETF to purchase shares. Although this would be more that the 9.95 TOTAL for ALL the ETFs that Motif would charge, Motif would allow money (dividends) to be sitting around un-invested until the following time I pay 9.95 (I would do this early in January with my new contributions as Paul suggests). Would anyone know how to estimate an approximate break-even point? In other words, a portfolio size at which point the dividends would be of an amount high enough that allowing them to go uninvested until the following January by having them at Motif would be more detrimental to long-term returns than paying the higher 7 dollar per ETF commission at Vanguard and therefore being 100 percent invested at all times?

I apologize for the wordiness of my post. I hope my question is clear. To rephrase it one last time it is basically this: It would seem to me that there would be a point at which a portfolio was large enough that it would be worth paying the higher commissions through Vanguard's site because they would more than pay for themselves by keeping me 100% invested at all times, while at smaller portfolio sizes the dividends wouldn't be large enough in dollar terms to make it worth paying the Vanguard rates. At what dollar size portfolio would this breakeven point occur? I imagine the answer to this question would inherently have to be estimate, being that I imagine it would involve projecting future dividend payments etc. but I am interested to hear people's estimates. Of course if there is any flawed reasoning in my question as a whole, please point that out too! Thanks in advance!

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:02 pm

I think you're making too much of this analysis. You aren't going to be able to mathematically determine the optimal portfolio going forward, because there are too many unknowns. You risk "paralysis by analysis", where you don't get anything decided.

If you're interested in Merriman's approach, I suggest you review the information here:

viewtopic.php?t=38374

I would just find a place with free ETFs then do a four fund + fixed income with them.
This week's fortune cookie: "The stock market may be your ticket to success." I sure hope so!

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whodidntante
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Re: Motif Investing Implementation of Ultimate Buy and Hold

Post by whodidntante » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:12 pm

Earl Lemongrab wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:02 pm
I think you're making too much of this analysis. You aren't going to be able to mathematically determine the optimal portfolio going forward, because there are too many unknowns. You risk "paralysis by analysis", where you don't get anything decided.
Exactly. If we knew for sure what was going to work best in the future, we wouldn't need diversification.

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