Junior and Senior Financial Independence

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Leesbro63
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Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by Leesbro63 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:19 pm

I thought this concept was absolutely excellent and very Bogleheadish and worth it's own thread. From another and articled (linked here) referenced on another current thread on "Stealth Wealth":




"You’ve reached junior financial independence status once your net worth has hit 20X your gross income, e.g. $100,000 household income, $2,000,000 net worth. You’ve reached senior financial independence status once your net worth is 50X your gross income, e.g. $200,000 household income, $10,000,000 net worth."

http://www.financialsamurai.com/when-is ... kpSVW.dpuf

monsterid
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by monsterid » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:30 pm

Great article. Definitely some things I can take onboard.

Thanks for posting.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by BrandonBogle » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:33 pm

Well that sucks for me. By that definitions, I won't ever be financially independent. My retirement goal number is 18X my current gross income (and targeting for when I'm 52). :(

ZeroWealth
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by ZeroWealth » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:53 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:Well that sucks for me. By that definitions, I won't ever be financially independent. My retirement goal number is 18X my current gross income (and targeting for when I'm 52). :(
If it makes you feel better, all the calculators online tell me I can't retire at 20x until I'm in my late 60s at the earliest, and that's including SS.

I was a fool and didn't start contributing to my Roth IRA till I was 30, and due to bouncing around startup jobs for 10 years, only had one opportunity to invest in a 401(k), and with no matching to boot.

I'm now at a great company for the long term, with a decent 401(k) plan and a 50% match up to 6%, and you better believe I'm maxing that sucker, along with mine and my SAHW's Roth IRAs.

I know my wife will enter the workforce again once our son starts grade school, but seeing my mother-in-law retire at 55 and then looking at our numbers makes me wish I had a financial time machine.
"I seldom end up where I wanted to go, but almost always end up where I need to be." - Douglas Adams

Longdog
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by Longdog » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:03 pm

I think the baseline should be your annual expenses, not annual income. But an entertaining concept, nonetheless.
Steve

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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by mac808 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:06 pm

In other words - a 5% and 2% SWR.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by BrandonBogle » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:06 pm

ZeroWealth wrote:
BrandonBogle wrote:Well that sucks for me. By that definitions, I won't ever be financially independent. My retirement goal number is 18X my current gross income (and targeting for when I'm 52). :(
If it makes you feel better, all the calculators online tell me I can't retire at 20x until I'm in my late 60s at the earliest, and that's including SS.

I was a fool and didn't start contributing to my Roth IRA till I was 30, and due to bouncing around startup jobs for 10 years, only had one opportunity to invest in a 401(k), and with no matching to boot.

I'm now at a great company for the long term, with a decent 401(k) plan and a 50% match up to 6%, and you better believe I'm maxing that sucker, along with mine and my SAHW's Roth IRAs.

I know my wife will enter the workforce again once our son starts grade school, but seeing my mother-in-law retire at 55 and then looking at our numbers makes me wish I had a financial time machine.
I've been fortunate that my two main jobs (high school + undergrad, then grad + career) have been generous. 6% match, immediate vesting, and the current one has 1-2% profit sharing each year. I've been maxing Roth IRAs since the high school job and contributing to 401ks since I hit the one year mark at that first main job, though not maxing the 401k until the second main job.

But I was just fortunate with my choice of employers. It sounds like you are doing well.

What was missing from my first post was a smiley. :oops: This is because the article is talking about 20X gross earnings rather than net or just expenses. Most calculators make the same flaw and you shouldn't fall for that. I currently contribute 30%+ of my gross income to my retirement account. Add in taxes I pay, and I likely would live my current lifestyle at 60% of my working gross income at retirement. Add in social security, and you need less (or retire earlier like I'm planning to do).

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by BrandonBogle » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:08 pm

Longdog wrote:I think the baseline should be your annual expenses, not annual income. But an entertaining concept, nonetheless.
Ding ding ding. Winner winner, chicken dinner.

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TheTimeLord
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by TheTimeLord » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:14 pm

Leesbro63 wrote:I thought this concept was absolutely excellent and very Bogleheadish and worth it's own thread. From another and articled (linked here) referenced on another current thread on "Stealth Wealth":




"You’ve reached junior financial independence status once your net worth has hit 20X your gross income, e.g. $100,000 household income, $2,000,000 net worth. You’ve reached senior financial independence status once your net worth is 50X your gross income, e.g. $200,000 household income, $10,000,000 net worth."

http://www.financialsamurai.com/when-is ... kpSVW.dpuf
Gross income includes taxes and savings that won't be part of your retirement expenses. 50X gross income for people who have consistently advanced financially in their careers is quite a stretch. Seriously if you are saving 40%-50% of your gross income how does this make any sense?
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

ZeroWealth
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by ZeroWealth » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:20 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:What was missing from my first post was a smiley. :oops: This is because the article is talking about 20X gross earnings rather than net or just expenses. Most calculators make the same flaw and you shouldn't fall for that. I currently contribute 30%+ of my gross income to my retirement account. Add in taxes I pay, and I likely would live my current lifestyle at 60% of my working gross income at retirement. Add in social security, and you need less (or retire earlier like I'm planning to do).
Great point! I keep forgetting we won't have a mortgage, my wife doesn't like international travel (cheap road trips in retirement), and our effective tax rate will either stay where it's at today or drop to that beautiful 15%.
"I seldom end up where I wanted to go, but almost always end up where I need to be." - Douglas Adams

Whakamole
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by Whakamole » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:41 pm

TheTimeLord wrote:Gross income includes taxes and savings that won't be part of your retirement expenses. 50X gross income for people who have consistently advanced financially in their careers is quite a stretch. Seriously if you are saving 40%-50% of your gross income how does this make any sense?
If you are saving 50% of gross, then "junior" is 40x annual expenses, allowing a SWR of 2.5%. I don't think that's junior at all, that's done.

bubbadog
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by bubbadog » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:58 pm

Winner winner chicken dinner +2. Should be expenses not income.

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TheTimeLord
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by TheTimeLord » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:00 pm

Whakamole wrote:
TheTimeLord wrote:Gross income includes taxes and savings that won't be part of your retirement expenses. 50X gross income for people who have consistently advanced financially in their careers is quite a stretch. Seriously if you are saving 40%-50% of your gross income how does this make any sense?
If you are saving 50% of gross, then "junior" is 40x annual expenses, allowing a SWR of 2.5%. I don't think that's junior at all, that's done.
And that isn't even considering SS or pensions people have. The Junior Senior concept is fine but the definition seems to be a total whiff.
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AllieTB1323
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by AllieTB1323 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:39 pm

Longdog wrote:I think the baseline should be your annual expenses, not annual income. But an entertaining concept, nonetheless.

Ditto, when we worked our income was about four times our expenses. Helped to live in a low cost area and have frugal tastes.

sport
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by sport » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:06 pm

bubbadog wrote:Winner winner chicken dinner +2. Should be expenses not income.
Not only expenses, but expenses minus SS and minus any pensions and annuities.

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bligh
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by bligh » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:18 pm

It makes no sense to connect financial independence to income over expenses. Even using his definitions the whole distinction between junior and senior financial independence is also quite arbitrary - 20x gross vs 50x gross.. why can't senior FI be 35x gross? Why is that somehow not good enough?

Financial independence has a specific meaning. It means you are no longer dependent on a job/work to maintain your lifestyle. You cannot say that a person with 30x his annual expenses, but just 15x his annual gross income, is not even "Junior FI". His investments are large enough that he can maintain his lifestyle on their returns alone.

Sure you can save far beyond that if you want to. You can save 10x what you need to retire. 100x what you need retire. 1000x what you need to retire. Have fun. But past 1.5-2x what you need to retire (ie. 30-50x your annual expenses) you have absolutely no Financial independence gain from in, now you are doing it to improve your lifestyle or for some other reason.

Dirghatamas
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by Dirghatamas » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:24 pm

Meh. I skimmed the article and the author shows poor math skills. His definition of "senior financial independence" is when your assets are > 50X gross income. Lets see, I am one of the most frugal people I know (spending less than 1% of my gross income) and I can't even fathom this one. How is this possible?

Consider that the federal + state taxes for high income earners is close to 50%. So the net savings you can have any year is ~50% of your gross income even if your expenses are 0. Now to save enough to be 50X of your gross, you need to work for 100 years before you can stop being frugal :beer

Ok, maybe your investements did well so you don't need 100 years. But, then consider that one's income usually rises into their peak earning years. SO lets say you are now 45 and entering your peak. You worked for 20 years so far but only last 5 are at that rate..so you need to work till infinity (as in you will be dead before hitting this number).

I just don't understand how one gets to 50X GROSS income in assets before loosening the strings. Even if you are a billionaire and have all your money in stocks (best I can imagine), the dividends themselves are > 2.5% (world cap) so that gives 40X... If your money is in any kind of bonds, then the rates are same or higher. Investment income through rentals, stock dividends, bond interest..it all ends up being more than 2% of assets so getting to assets bigger than 50X gross income is exceedingly hard if not impossible.

The math just doesn't add up for any reasonable upwardly mobile income/career stream. Yes, I can see the case when you are unemployed and not making any money..but somehow I don't think the author had that in mind (for loosening purse strings).

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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by KlangFool » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:25 pm

Leesbro63 wrote:I thought this concept was absolutely excellent and very Bogleheadish and worth it's own thread. From another and articled (linked here) referenced on another current thread on "Stealth Wealth":




"You’ve reached junior financial independence status once your net worth has hit 20X your gross income, e.g. $100,000 household income, $2,000,000 net worth. You’ve reached senior financial independence status once your net worth is 50X your gross income, e.g. $200,000 household income, $10,000,000 net worth."

http://www.financialsamurai.com/when-is ... kpSVW.dpuf
Leesbro63,

It is obviously a waste of time to read the article.

1) FI has nothing to do with income. It has to do with annual expense. I live on 1/3 of my gross income. So, how does it makes any sense that I need 20X my gross income in order to be FI? That is equivalent to 60X my annual expense.

2) People that achieve FI has to be LBYM. That means they do not spend all their gross income. And, we could not spend all our gross income anyhow since we have to pay tax.

KlangFool

staythecourse
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by staythecourse » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:41 pm

KlangFool wrote: Leesbro63,

It is obviously a waste of time to read the article.

1) FI has nothing to do with income. It has to do with annual expense. I live on 1/3 of my gross income. So, how does it makes any sense that I need 20X my gross income in order to be FI? That is equivalent to 60X my annual expense.

2) People that achieve FI has to be LBYM. That means they do not spend all their gross income. And, we could not spend all our gross income anyhow since we have to pay tax.

KlangFool
Agree 100%. I have NO idea where the concept of x times income came in? The whole idea is controlling costs. You are financially independent if you make enough to cover your annual expenses. Simple as that. In all honesty, it is likley less then that as one's annual expenses go down over time as health issues slows down traveling, spouses get sick, spouses die, etc...

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by Dottie57 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:50 pm

Longdog wrote:I think the baseline should be your annual expenses, not annual income. But an entertaining concept, nonetheless.

I agree. Gross x 50 is something I will never have. However. 50x expenses.... a lot more doable.

mustangmax09
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by mustangmax09 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:07 pm

In defense of the Samurai I think some may have missed the point he was trying to make if they didn't read the entire article. He is making a point that at some point in life it may be ok to increase spending. While I know the consensus here is to look for multiples of spending you are taking his point out of context.

He does mention that many aim for multiples of spending but in his mind this can be gamed and shouldn't be used before allowing yourself to increase spending dramatically

He clearly states the following
For those of you who want to forsake Stealth Wealth because your net worth is equal to 20X or more of your annual expenses, sorry. Keep on grinding because it’s better to be safe than struggling when you’re too old to work. Getting to 20X spending is relatively easy after a while. When people focus on a multiple of spending, they will often “cheat” by trying to spend so little to get to 20X. Instead, if you focus on 20X – 50X your gross income, then you CAN’T cheat in terms of being overly frugal. - See more at: http://www.financialsamurai.com/when-is ... 5TwjW.dpuf

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Leesbro63
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by Leesbro63 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:29 pm

I am the original poster. I agree that the important factor is the multiple of EXPENSES and not income. But I think most of us Bogleheads get it that many articles are written assuming that income and expenses are often the same for many. I also get it that it's not possible to accumulate 20x or 50x income if your expenses equal your income.

But the main reason that I posted this is because I like the concept of "junior financial independence" at about a 4% spending rate "senior financial independence" at about a 2% rate. Similar to Dr. Bernstein's point that "2% is about as bulletproof as it gets". Whereas 4% is probably better than 95% of the population, yet many here find it not safe enough due to low interest rates or the fact that we have less than 100 years of data or other concerns.

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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:30 pm

Won't waste time reading, it's all about expenses not gross numbers. As as far as multiples, those are ridiculous factors - 50x gross? Sorry I don't need $5 million at age 65 to retire, pay off mortgage, sign up for Medicare, sign up for Social Security a few years later, go fishing......the fish don't care if I have 5x much less 50x, only that I have worms and I'm casting it their way.
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KlangFool
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by KlangFool » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:38 pm

mustangmax09 wrote:
they will often “cheat” by trying to spend so little to get to 20X. Instead, if you focus on 20X – 50X your gross income, then you CAN’T cheat in terms of being overly frugal. - See more at: http://www.financialsamurai.com/when-is ... 5TwjW.dpuf
mustangmax09,

And, by spending less, people saves more. Why is that a problem? In fact, that fixes 99+% of people. They saves too little.

<< if you focus on 20X – 50X your gross income, then you CAN’T cheat in terms of being overly frugal.>>

Which planet is he on? Yes, I agree maybe 0.00001% of people are overly frugal. But, 99+% spend too much. So, how does writing something that is irrelevant to 99+% of people matters?

Thank you for letting us know not to waste any time reading his articles.

KlangFool

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Wildebeest
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by Wildebeest » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:41 pm

I like reading the financial samurai and he has some interesting points. However the measure he uses 20 times gross and 50 times gross as junior and senior independence strike me as silly and little to do with reality.

It must not be easy to write a blog, attract readers and make sense.
The Golden Rule: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

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PhysicianOnFIRE
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by PhysicianOnFIRE » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:47 pm

I agree with the masses that we should be considering annual spending, not income. I make good money as an anesthesiologist, but I don't know that I'll ever have 20x my income. I'll be financially independent at less than 1/3 that level.

I came up with a similar concept: Financial Independence versus Financial Freedom. Financial Freedom allowing you to double your discretionary spending while maintaining a 4% SWR.

Financial Freedom = 25 x (Core Spending + 2 x (Discretionary Spending))

For us, with anticipated retirement expenses of $70,000, we reached financial independence when we had 25 x $70,000 = $1,750,000

I consider $40,000 to be core expenses and $30,000 to be discretionary. To have financial freedom (Senior FI?), we need 25 x (40,000 + 2 x $30,000) = $2,500,000

I think that's a better way to define a "Level Up" from FI.

:beer
-PoF

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bligh
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by bligh » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:16 pm

KlangFool wrote:
mustangmax09 wrote:
they will often “cheat” by trying to spend so little to get to 20X. Instead, if you focus on 20X – 50X your gross income, then you CAN’T cheat in terms of being overly frugal. - See more at: http://www.financialsamurai.com/when-is ... 5TwjW.dpuf
mustangmax09,

And, by spending less, people saves more. Why is that a problem? In fact, that fixes 99+% of people. They saves too little.

<< if you focus on 20X – 50X your gross income, then you CAN’T cheat in terms of being overly frugal.>>

Which planet is he on? Yes, I agree maybe 0.00001% of people are overly frugal. But, 99+% spend too much. So, how does writing something that is irrelevant to 99+% of people matters?

Thank you for letting us know not to waste any time reading his articles.

KlangFool
Additionally, It is harder to cheat on expenses than it is to cheat on gross income. If I quit my job and take up pan handling on the street, I could instantly have 100x my gross annual income.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by BrandonBogle » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:22 pm

PhysicianOnFIRE wrote:I agree with the masses that we should be considering annual spending, not income. I make good money as an anesthesiologist, but I don't know that I'll ever have 20x my income. I'll be financially independent at less than 1/3 that level.

I came up with a similar concept: Financial Independence versus Financial Freedom. Financial Freedom allowing you to double your discretionary spending while maintaining a 4% SWR.

Financial Freedom = 25 x (Core Spending + 2 x (Discretionary Spending))

For us, with anticipated retirement expenses of $70,000, we reached financial independence when we had 25 x $70,000 = $1,750,000

I consider $40,000 to be core expenses and $30,000 to be discretionary. To have financial freedom (Senior FI?), we need 25 x (40,000 + 2 x $30,000) = $2,500,000

I think that's a better way to define a "Level Up" from FI.

:beer
-PoF
I like the concept and the still relative simplicity in the calculation, but what is missing is how that $40k/$70k is being met. It sounds like this is with no social security. That may be your intention, but many would count in that and any other pension type of income. So my core question to yours, is that expense value solely what needs to come from your investments or if it is the grand total for your lifestyle per year?

alexost
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by alexost » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:38 pm

I think this concept needs clarification.

Lets say I want to retire with expenses of $4000/mo. To get that after tax income I need roughly 4000/.7 = $5714/month gross.

So using 25x expenses I'd need 1.2 mill. But obviously you need to gross enough to pay taxes to get that amount.

So 25x gross = 1.7 mill.

Like PoF above says their expenses are 70k yr. They'd need gross roughly 70/.7 = 100k yr.

Or 2.5 mill to net 70k year to cover expenses.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by BrandonBogle » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:42 pm

alexost wrote:But obviously you need to gross enough to pay taxes to get that amount.
See this thread: How to pay ZERO taxes in retirement with 6-figure expenses

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ClevrChico
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by ClevrChico » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:53 pm

Longdog wrote:I think the baseline should be your annual expenses, not annual income. But an entertaining concept, nonetheless.
Agreed. If you steadily growing income, you have a potentially impossible moving target to hit.

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PhysicianOnFIRE
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by PhysicianOnFIRE » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:06 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:
PhysicianOnFIRE wrote:I agree with the masses that we should be considering annual spending, not income. I make good money as an anesthesiologist, but I don't know that I'll ever have 20x my income. I'll be financially independent at less than 1/3 that level.

I came up with a similar concept: Financial Independence versus Financial Freedom. Financial Freedom allowing you to double your discretionary spending while maintaining a 4% SWR.

Financial Freedom = 25 x (Core Spending + 2 x (Discretionary Spending))

For us, with anticipated retirement expenses of $70,000, we reached financial independence when we had 25 x $70,000 = $1,750,000

I consider $40,000 to be core expenses and $30,000 to be discretionary. To have financial freedom (Senior FI?), we need 25 x (40,000 + 2 x $30,000) = $2,500,000

I think that's a better way to define a "Level Up" from FI.

:beer
-PoF
I like the concept and the still relative simplicity in the calculation, but what is missing is how that $40k/$70k is being met. It sounds like this is with no social security. That may be your intention, but many would count in that and any other pension type of income. So my core question to yours, is that expense value solely what needs to come from your investments or if it is the grand total for your lifestyle per year?
Personally, I plan to treat SS as a likely bonus that I'll see in the distant future. In the absence of a bear market, I could have "financial freedom" in 18 months, and will be 42. If (huge if) the rules remain roughly the same, I wouldn't plan on touching SS until age 70.

If you have a sizable pension, I would definitely factor it in. Just subtract it from your anticipated expenses since they will be partially (or totally) covered by the pension. If you have to cover some years without it, and then receive the pension later on, the calculation becomes more complicated.

:beer
-PoF

mustangmax09
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by mustangmax09 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:25 pm

And, by spending less, people saves more. Why is that a problem? In fact, that fixes 99+% of people. They saves too little.
I agree. Spending less and saving more is better.
<< if you focus on 20X – 50X your gross income, then you CAN’T cheat in terms of being overly frugal.>>

Which planet is he on? Yes, I agree maybe 0.00001% of people are overly frugal. But, 99+% spend too much. So, how does writing something that is irrelevant to 99+% of people matters?

Thank you for letting us know not to waste any time reading his articles.

KlangFool

Additionally, It is harder to cheat on expenses than it is to cheat on gross income. If I quit my job and take up pan handling on the street, I could instantly have 100x my gross annual income.
I can't know for sure what his thoughts were since it is not my article. However when he refers to cheating on expenses I think he might be referring to people artificially lowering expenses for a single year but counting this as their standard expense rate. I can think of a number of ways this could be done.

One could pay property tax for 2016 and 2017 in 2016. In 2017 expenses would be lower if they waited until 2018 to do the same again.
One might not consider larger "one time" expenses in their annual expenses. Items like new cars, housing repairs, college expenses. If you only have 20x your expenses these items could make a large impact if they aren't budgeted for in annual expenses.

While you may not agree with his use of 20x income vs 20x expense I think we can both agree that if you get 20x your income that is better than 20x your expenses unless you spend more than you make. This amount may or may not be a necessary savings goal. That's up for everyone to decide for themselves.

student
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by student » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:29 pm

bligh wrote:If I quit my job and take up pan handling on the street, I could instantly have 100x my gross annual income.
I literally LOL.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by BrandonBogle » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:30 pm

PhysicianOnFIRE wrote: Personally, I plan to treat SS as a likely bonus that I'll see in the distant future. In the absence of a bear market, I could have "financial freedom" in 18 months, and will be 42. If (huge if) the rules remain roughly the same, I wouldn't plan on touching SS until age 70.

If you have a sizable pension, I would definitely factor it in. Just subtract it from your anticipated expenses since they will be partially (or totally) covered by the pension. If you have to cover some years without it, and then receive the pension later on, the calculation becomes more complicated.

:beer
-PoF
Personally, I do the same. I am in my early 30s and do my financial projections with annual expenses without social security. It includes my essentials, my basic life expenses, and some splurging (so I have variability to reduce expenses in a bad year of retirement). That shows I'm on track to retire at 52. I occasionally look at what it would be if I get 1/2 of my current SSA projected benefits and that would mean I'm very comfortable once that kicks in. I figure at 45, I can make some adjustments to my plan, and perhaps retire even earlier by accounting for SSA or continue as I have been. Either way, I basically have it at 45 that I start shifting my asset allocation into "preparing for retirement" mode and make a decision on SSA then.
Last edited by BrandonBogle on Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

MoonOrb
Posts: 974
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:58 pm

Re: Junior and Senior Financial Independence

Post by MoonOrb » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:34 am

I'm glad I'm not the only one who really disliked the article. I am wholly onboard with the concept that "it's okay to stop grinding at some point and spend what you have" but then that whole weird list of nonsensical rules, wow.

I think this guy really grinds my gears because there's sort of a "us vs. them" mentality that he alludes to in his articles when he refers to people being jealous of his success, and then he goes and combines that with rules, as if he can tell people what to do. It's a style thing, obviously, but, ugh, he gets under my skin.

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