Whats your number to walk away?

SpartanBull · Post by **SpartanBull** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:57 pm

Hello,
I'm curious as to what amount of money in your portfolio you would require right now to walk away from working/income, etc forever. Some background information such as age, type of area your in, etc, just so the response makes sense, would be helpful. I'm also curious how much of an increase this is from what you currently have. For example "If I had 8 million, I would completely walk away from work. I would need 7 million more since I have one million"
Just for fun and just interested to see what numbers people come up with. For the sake of this question, I request that people choose the "minimum" number they would do this with. For example, I know a lot of people would do it with $50 million. But would you also do it with $10 million? 8 Million? Etc. So I'm curious of what that magical number is where if it could be gifted to you today, you'd make a "deal" and say "Ok I'm done making income and this is a good deal/tradeoff for me". Thanks in advance for thoughts.

Jack FFR1846 · Post by **Jack FFR1846** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:01 pm

Number in investments to walk away: $3MM
Number needed to hit this: About $1MM
I'm 59 and plan to retire at 62 with less than $3MM. College payments are the big expense for the next decade for me but the kids' grandparents have really pitched in to help, unexpectedly, so I'm not too scared about those costs.

Mike Scott · Post by **Mike Scott** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:15 pm

6 years from yesterday; my goals are based on time not a $$ amount

radiowave · Post by **radiowave** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:15 pm

The subtitle of this thread could be "what is the number you could be totally financially independent for the rest of your life."

So if annual expenditures are $100k and expect to live 40 years, that number would be 4 million. However that doesn't consider market volatility, contingencies such as health emergencies, capital expenditures such as a new house, charitable contributions, etc. If I double the initial 4M to 8M that could help weather any storm and leave some money for my family. If I wanted to add some additional margin, $10M would be a good bet we could continue our present lifestyle, add a few perks (e.g. travel first class on airlines), and mitigate nearly any contingency for the rest of our lives.

ge1 · Post by **ge1** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:27 pm

Probably 5m. In our 40s, need 2m more.

whodidntante · Post by **whodidntante** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:36 pm

2.5 million.

Gropes & Ray · Post by **Gropes & Ray** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:37 pm

Probably $2 million but I would like to hit $2.5 million. That's in today's dollars so I probably will need $4-5 million. Only $4.85 million to go!

EDIT: I am 30 w/ 31 year old spouse. I would happily retire if I could spend $80k/year in today's dollars. Target retirement: age 55.

zaboomafoozarg · Post by **zaboomafoozarg** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:46 pm

$1.5m real, so probably $2m nominal by the time I get there.

I don't think I'd walk away from all work though. Just the 9-5 daily grind kind of work.

Bacchus01 · Post by **Bacchus01** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:47 pm

$10M, but will probably walk at $5M

Ron Ronnerson · Post by **Ron Ronnerson** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:50 pm

I don't want to walk away as I enjoy my work. Financial independence would be around $3M. I'm nowhere near that but, luckily, I'm in no hurry to stop working.

bmelikia · Post by **bmelikia** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:06 pm

Age: 32 and 30

Assuming our house was paid off. . .

3.2 million would be the ticket for us to "walk away" right now

I just figure that we would draw 2.75% and then adjust for inflation going forward.

Although - we are probably "worth" around 375k right now. . .and that includes the approximate equity in our home so obviously I'm just having fun dreaming here!

Happy New Year!

NoGambleNoFuture · Post by **NoGambleNoFuture** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:17 pm

No number big enough... too hungry.

mindboggling · Post by **mindboggling** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:20 pm

Thirty days ago, I did walk away (voluntarily).
Investment portfolio: $1.6 million
Fixed pension: $38,700
No SS yet.
No debt.
Age: 63
LCOL area

steve

LarryAllen · Post by **LarryAllen** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:26 pm

It's all about expenses. We earn a lot and spend a lot. Thus our "needs" would require a pretty big number to walk away.

Grt2bOutdoors · Post by **Grt2bOutdoors** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:28 pm

Number to walk away: $3MM
How much to get there: $3MM.

Short of hitting the lottery or a bird with a huge sack of cash dropping it on my back lawn, I don't see me walking away quite yet.

sperry8 · Post by **sperry8** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:30 pm

I had a number... it was $4 million. As I worked towards achieving it my number moved and I wanted $6 million.

I ended up with $5 million at age 36 and retired young two years later

As a decade has passed with Bogleheads investing strategies in place my portfolio has grown to that modified $6 million goal even during drawdown in retirement.

In a perfect world I would've retired with $10 million. Perhaps I'll get there someday.

Good luck all - would be nice to have everyone here join me in retirement. It's exactly as imagined

Tamalak · Post by **Tamalak** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:34 pm

Whatever I need to live on dividends only. For me, $2 million - I'd be just fine with a 40k/year income, and my portfolio would still be growing in real terms (which is important since I'm young).

I expect to hit the real equivalent of 2 million sometime in my 40s.

Or maybe I'll get halfway to that, and take a lower paying job with fewer hours.. honestly I like the idea of working 20 hours a week more than 0 hours a week, but I don't know of any such jobs that are money efficient..

TheTimeLord · Post by **TheTimeLord** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:38 pm

radiowave wrote:So if annual expenditures are $100k and expect to live 40 years, that number would be 4 million.

Huh?

Doom&Gloom · Post by **Doom&Gloom** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:40 pm

I'm sure this will go against the grain of all the spreadsheet cowboys, but:

I never set a number. I went by the "If you have to ask, you don't have enough" mantra.

And it seemed obvious to me that after a certain point, I had enough to "get by." After that it became a matter of what I wanted for my remaining years' standard of living. Again, "You'll know it when you see it." Or at least I did. I have never lost a minute's sleep from worrying about leaving too early or staying too long. I have no regrets for the way I did it, but it isn't for everyone and YMMV.

lynneny · Post by **lynneny** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:51 pm

Number to walk away (if I moved to a more LCOL area): $2 million
Number to walk away if I stayed in nyc: $4 million

I'm 60 and net worth is about $1.2 million, so I'm unlikely to make even the lower number. But with a small pension at 65 and SS at 70, and a move to a more affordable city, it'll probably work.

TheTimeLord · Post by **TheTimeLord** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:55 pm

I sit amazed at how little value $2 and even $3 million portfolios have in Bogleland. Just a quick back of the napkin calculation suggests Bogleheads would walk away unless they were at least 5 percenters.

White Coat Investor · Post by **White Coat Investor** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:55 pm

SpartanBull wrote:Hello,
I'm curious as to what amount of money in your portfolio you would require right now to walk away from working/income, etc forever. Some background information such as age, type of area your in, etc, just so the response makes sense, would be helpful. I'm also curious how much of an increase this is from what you currently have. For example "If I had 8 million, I would completely walk away from work. I would need 7 million more since I have one million"
Just for fun and just interested to see what numbers people come up with. For the sake of this question, I request that people choose the "minimum" number they would do this with. For example, I know a lot of people would do it with $50 million. But would you also do it with $10 million? 8 Million? Etc. So I'm curious of what that magical number is where if it could be gifted to you today, you'd make a "deal" and say "Ok I'm done making income and this is a good deal/tradeoff for me". Thanks in advance for thoughts.

There's a big assumption in your question- that I would not do any paid work if I had a certain amount of money. I think that assumption is wrong, but who knows. Maybe there is a dollar amount which would cause me to not do any paid work, but I can't think of what it might be.

I'm focusing more on living my ideal life now rather than suffering through something in hopes of future bliss. I did that for years and don't intend to do it anymore. I've got enough that I only do work I want to do these days. But much of it is paid (in fact I'm making more than I ever did.)

But my FI number is probably in the $4M range as far as how much I need dedicated to retirement to support my desired retirement lifestyle, if that's what you're asking. And I don't have that.

ClevrChico · Post by **ClevrChico** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:20 pm

Around $3.5M is our goal by our mid-40's, with several years to go, we'll see.

If our jobs continue to be enjoyable, we may not make any changes, or we may reduce hours.

Future healthcare availability is an unknown and will influence our decision.

bds3 · Post by **bds3** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:24 pm

$10M. $10M to go. I'm 30.

RAchip · Post by **RAchip** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:34 pm

This is a great question. My answer is $100mm. I would have to think hard at $70mm, but I'm done at $100mm actual cash in the bank. Im 51 and have 30 or so mm. Its nice but you need $100mm for true wealth. Maybe at 70mm I woulld change my mind.

alexost · Post by **alexost** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:40 pm

The first thing you do when considering walking away is to define your lifestyle. Then calculate a number that will accommodate.

Intrepyd · Post by **Intrepyd** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:45 pm

$4M.

Early accumulator, gots a lot of accumulating to do

CaliJim · Post by **CaliJim** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:46 pm

Annual expenses * 25... maybe 30 to be safe

PhysicianOnFIRE · Post by **PhysicianOnFIRE** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:56 pm

Age: 41
FI number: ~ $2 million (done). Current annual spending is between $60,000 and $70,000, but does not include health insurance premiums.
Walk away number: closer to $3 million. I'll take a sabbatical from medicine as we likely approach that number in about 18 months.

Whether it's a one-way walk or just a little time on the park bench to rest and take it all in is to be determined.

-PoF

AllMostThere · Post by **AllMostThere** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:13 pm

Age: DH – 51, DW – 53
Debt: $0, house is paid off

Area: Mid-COL
Walk-away Number: $2.5M. $700K left to go, so thinking maybe another 3-5 years
Risks/Concerns that may drive OMY syndrome prior to ER:
+ What will be cost direction of health insurance prior to Medicare?
+ Cost of college education for DD (15 yr) & DS (10 yr)? Currently ~ $160K total saved in 529, with $12K annual contributions.

While DW really enjoys her work, my BS bucket is starting to overflow these last couple of years. Would like to make it until 55 before drowning. We have always LBYM since college, so I’m confident that we would be okay even if we left w*rk today. The risk/concern items above are what keeps me wondering……..

honduranhurricane · Post by **honduranhurricane** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:20 pm

3 million

nps · Post by **nps** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:43 pm

radiowave wrote:So if annual expenditures are $100k and expect to live 40 years, that number would be 4 million. However that doesn't consider market volatility, contingencies such as health emergencies, capital expenditures such as a new house, charitable contributions, etc.

You shouldn't have much market volatility if you only require a zero real rate of return. Good point though, as expectation for minimum growth would factor into how high the "number" needs to be.

I would tend to think I could survive financially for an indefinite number of years if I had $4M and required $100k annually

MoonOrb · Post by **MoonOrb** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:46 pm

35x annual expenses. About $3M to go. Can't imagine walking away, though, if some sort of weird windfall happened and I woke up with this amount tomorrow.

As I get closer to wanting to retire, 25x expenses will probably seem more reasonable.

matonplayer · Post by **matonplayer** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:51 pm

Sold my biz in 2012 at age 52 and walked away. $6.5M including what we had saved prior to 2012.

The Wizard · Post by **The Wizard** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:52 pm

RAchip wrote:This is a great question. My answer is $100mm. I would have to think hard at $70mm, but I'm done at $100mm actual cash in the bank. Im 51 and have 30 or so mm. Its nice but you need $100mm for true wealth. Maybe at 70mm I woulld change my mind.

RAchip is my new idol...

The Casualty · Post by **The Casualty** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:58 pm

2.5M ( Walked last year)

2.8M start of new year
61/66 y/o
105K in pensions and SS
Corp. retiree health insurance @ $224 / month for spouse
No Debt
LCOL area
No kids

zaboomafoozarg · Post by **zaboomafoozarg** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:08 pm

The Wizard wrote:RAchip is my new idol...

Not mine, no way I want to work until I have $100M! At my current savings rate and given a 5% return, it'd take me until I'm... 103 years old to hit that amount.

desiderium · Post by **desiderium** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:13 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:[
Maybe there is a dollar amount which would cause me to not do any paid work, but I can't think of what it might be.

I'm focusing more on living my ideal life now rather than suffering through something in hopes of future bliss. I did that for years and don't intend to do it anymore. I've got enough that I only do work I want to do these days. But much of it is paid (in fact I'm making more than I ever did.)

I realized about a year ago that my net worth was enough to support me in a very satisfying retirement. I am an employed physician. This has really helped me at work. I have made adjustments to my schedule and production to optimize my current life, since I have nothing to prove anymore. I have absolutely nothing to whine about, since I am there entirely by choice. On the other hand, I can be painfully honest with my hospital administrators about their shortcomings, and generous in my efforts to help them learn and improve.

I have no idea what will happen next; health care is a mess. My current job satisfaction could quickly change for the worse, for reasons entirely outside my control. My financial freedom means I don't worry about this at all.

forkhorn · Post by **forkhorn** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:13 pm

RAchip wrote:This is a great question. My answer is $100mm. I would have to think hard at $70mm, but I'm done at $100mm actual cash in the bank. Im 51 and have 30 or so mm. Its nice but you need $100mm for true wealth. Maybe at 70mm I woulld change my mind.

RAchip,
Hahaha. I will go on and tell you how you would change your mind at 70 million- you would decide it takes a quarter billion for "true wealth"! You must have some ridiculously wealthy friends.

I've heard it said that "the number" for many wealthy people is about twice what they currently have. I think there is some wisdom in that anecdote.

mattshwink · Post by **mattshwink** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:19 pm

$3.3 million. 1/3 of the way there at 42.

Dottie57 · Post by **Dottie57** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:26 pm

I am 60.

My walk away number is 2 million which would let me be FI from any changes to / elimination of SS. Currently have 1.16m.

2m should allow 80k (wr of 4%). This should take care of taxes and healthcare. Housing is quite inexpensive in my condo complex since there are no expensive amenities ( pool, exercise room etc)

Realistic hopes are for close to 1.5m & hopefully have some kind of gvt senior healthcare.

hikeandbike · Post by **hikeandbike** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:30 pm

I reached it.
500K invested
Annual income stream of 70K (before taxes) from business investment.
47 years old.
I live below my means. Spend about 30K. Invest the rest.

walking away in March....literally
Heading out for a 6 month hiking trip, followed by a multiyear exploration of the US, Canada, Mexico...and wherever else the truck takes my girl and me.

If at sometime in the future we need to work, we will...as little as possible.

Earlyout01 · Post by **Earlyout01** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:45 pm

Age 49 yo
Comfortable with $3m investable assets. $500k left to go. I plan on going part time in one year and bridging the gap with part time w**k until that $3m is achieved, hopefully within 5 years. $3m seems to be a very popular number among Bogleheads.

NYCguy · Post by **NYCguy** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:46 pm

forkhorn wrote:
RAchip wrote: I've heard it said that "the number" for many wealthy people is about twice what they currently have. I think there is some wisdom in that anecdote.

True here. My number keeps doubling. But I'm enjoying the ride.

monsterid · Post by **monsterid** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:50 pm

Age: 30
#: $8M

Rational, based on 5% real rate of return spitting off $400k p.a. in free cash. Post tax c.$240k.Realizing that the number also needs to fun kids colleges, etc.

Barefootgirl · Post by **Barefootgirl** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:55 pm

My walk away number is 2 million which would let me be FI from any changes to / elimination of SS.

Maybe this is a silly question, but at 60 years of age, if there are any significant changes or elimination of SS, you don't expect to be grandfathered? I mean, you have presumably been pre-paying for your retirement with this program.

BFG

Wildebeest · Post by **Wildebeest** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:57 pm

I do not expect that I am going to walk away anytime soon.

I like to to go to work most days.

I do not have a number.

May be because financial independence feels great.

Sandtrap · Post by **Sandtrap** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:03 pm

5+ mil. + no debt + minimal expenditures (frugal) + 2 spine surgeries. Recently retired.

100k . . . 35 . . . +- 3-4% + SS
Moved from Hawaii HCOL to Arizona LCOL. (huge difference)
Post-Retirement career pending. . . . .

sat24 · Post by **sat24** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:06 pm

CaliJim wrote:Annual expenses * 25... maybe 30 to be safe

I have seen this magic number/formula mentioned in other places too. Can you please elaborate?

radiowave · Post by **radiowave** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:13 pm

nps wrote:
radiowave wrote:So if annual expenditures are $100k and expect to live 40 years, that number would be 4 million. However that doesn't consider market volatility, contingencies such as health emergencies, capital expenditures such as a new house, charitable contributions, etc.
You shouldn't have much market volatility if you only require a zero real rate of return. Good point though, as expectation for minimum growth would factor into how high the "number" needs to be.

I would tend to think I could survive financially for an indefinite number of years if I had $4M and required $100k annually

I agree, under current conditions, expectation of SS at 70 plus a small defined benefit pension, and no mortgage payment could pretty much keep us comfortable with a lot less. But as Dr.desiderium notes above, the real unknown is healthcare. This not a political commentary, but a reality for all of us regarding personal finance. If insurance is not available at a reasonable cost, or if Medicare goes away or we have to pay much higher premiums or delay in getting Medicare to > 65, that will have a substantial effect on overall budget, costs, and lifestyle. The OP question was interesting to work through though our personal opinions. In reality, it's hard to predict what financial independence will look like in the next few years.