Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

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Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by triceratop » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:06 pm

It appears as if the entire Vanguard Sector Bond portfolio saw cost reductions, effective today. That is, Short/Intermediate/Long -Term Government/Corporate Bond.

This includes the ETF shares: VGIT [ Intermediate-Term Government Bond ETF ], VCIT [ Intermediate-Term Corporate Bond ETF ], VGLT [ Long-Term Government Bond ETF ], VCLT [ Long-Term Corporate Bond ETF ], VGSH [ Short-Term Government Bond ETF ], VCSH [ Short-Term Corporate Bond ETF ], VMBS [ Mortgage-Backed Securities ETF ]. This also applies to the admiral shares of these funds.

All expense ratios are now 0.07%. Of course, this is backward-looking; it is possible that lower costs are ahead of us.
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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by stlutz » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:16 pm

And now it's time to start the clock on when Schwab will drop their ERs on SCHR and SCHO...

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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by jhfenton » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:46 pm

triceratop wrote:All expense ratios are now 0.07%. Of course, this is backward-looking; it is possible that lower costs are ahead of us.

I saw the press release this morning, checked my spreadsheet, and saw that I had already changed my ERs for VSIGX (Int Govt) and VSCSX (Short Corp) some weeks ago.

That inspired me to check and notice that based on the recently-filed annual report VSS is set to decline from 17 bp to 13 bp and VFSCX from 31 bp to 27 bp (both FTSE Small Cap ex-US ETF and Investor shares). And VWO/VEMAX (Emerging Markets) are set to decline to 14 bp. Vanguard makes it official when the updated prospectus is filed, but the numbers come from the footnotes in the annual report.

Funds with November 30 annual report dates will be next, but they're not in yet.

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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by triceratop » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:56 pm

jhfenton wrote:
triceratop wrote:All expense ratios are now 0.07%. Of course, this is backward-looking; it is possible that lower costs are ahead of us.

I saw the press release this morning, checked my spreadsheet, and saw that I had already changed my ERs for VSIGX (Int Govt) and VSCSX (Short Corp) some weeks ago.

That inspired me to check and notice that based on the recently-filed annual report VSS is set to decline from 17 bp to 13 bp and VFSCX from 31 bp to 27 bp (both FTSE Small Cap ex-US ETF and Investor shares). And VWO/VEMAX (Emerging Markets) are set to decline to 14 bp. Vanguard makes it official when the updated prospectus is filed, but the numbers come from the footnotes in the annual report.

Funds with November 30 annual report dates will be next, but they're not in yet.


Thanks for the news. The VSS news especially is encouraging: International Small-cap is going to be 2bp more expensive than total market international (VXUS/VTIAX is set to decrease to 0.11%).

It looks like my weighted slice and dice portfolio ER will be 9bp( :!: ), but I don't hard-code my ERs so I'll wait for my Google spreadsheet to update it automagically. Sure makes it easier to spend more on some of the more exotic slices that are weighted less.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by livesoft » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:15 pm

I'll bet that costs actually went up, but the amount of assets in each fund went up more.
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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by stlutz » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:49 pm

In a preview of coming attractions, the annual reports for the tax exempt funds came out today showing the expense ratio for those funds dropping from .12% to .09%.

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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by neomutiny06 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:11 am

stlutz wrote:In a preview of coming attractions, the annual reports for the tax exempt funds came out today showing the expense ratio for those funds dropping from .12% to .09%.

Really? This is great news. Does that mean the investor shares will also reduce?

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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by stlutz » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:15 am

The annual report listed a .01% drop for investor shares.

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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by neomutiny06 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:32 am

stlutz wrote:The annual report listed a .01% drop for investor shares.


Please link me

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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by triceratop » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:35 am

neomutiny06 wrote:
stlutz wrote:The annual report listed a .01% drop for investor shares.


Please link me


Annual reports are on the Vanguard fund page. They can also be found with the help of a search engine such as Google. :wink:
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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by GreatOdinsRaven » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:51 am

triceratop wrote:
jhfenton wrote:
triceratop wrote:All expense ratios are now 0.07%. Of course, this is backward-looking; it is possible that lower costs are ahead of us.

I saw the press release this morning, checked my spreadsheet, and saw that I had already changed my ERs for VSIGX (Int Govt) and VSCSX (Short Corp) some weeks ago.

That inspired me to check and notice that based on the recently-filed annual report VSS is set to decline from 17 bp to 13 bp and VFSCX from 31 bp to 27 bp (both FTSE Small Cap ex-US ETF and Investor shares). And VWO/VEMAX (Emerging Markets) are set to decline to 14 bp. Vanguard makes it official when the updated prospectus is filed, but the numbers come from the footnotes in the annual report.

Funds with November 30 annual report dates will be next, but they're not in yet.


Thanks for the news. The VSS news especially is encouraging: International Small-cap is going to be 2bp more expensive than total market international (VXUS/VTIAX is set to decrease to 0.11%).

It looks like my weighted slice and dice portfolio ER will be 9bp( :!: ), but I don't hard-code my ERs so I'll wait for my Google spreadsheet to update it automagically. Sure makes it easier to spend more on some of the more exotic slices that are weighted less.


How did you hard-code it into your spreadsheet? Is there a basic spreadsheet framework that you used?
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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by FillorKill » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:41 am

triceratop wrote:It appears as if the entire Vanguard Sector Bond portfolio saw cost reductions, effective today.

It appears as if the entire Vanguard Sector Bond portfolio saw price reductions, commencing with the conclusion of the presidential election :P

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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by neomutiny06 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:16 am

triceratop wrote:
neomutiny06 wrote:
stlutz wrote:The annual report listed a .01% drop for investor shares.


Please link me


Annual reports are on the Vanguard fund page. They can also be found with the help of a search engine such as Google. :wink:

I'm looking at that annual report. It's from October and doesn't mention expense ratios moving down.

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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by triceratop » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:06 pm

neomutiny06 wrote:
triceratop wrote:
neomutiny06 wrote:
stlutz wrote:The annual report listed a .01% drop for investor shares.


Please link me


Annual reports are on the Vanguard fund page. They can also be found with the help of a search engine such as Google. :wink:

I'm looking at that annual report. It's from October and doesn't mention expense ratios moving down.


Read footnote 1 on page 2. Those are the numbers (actual realized expenses) that precede official published expense ratio changes.
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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by triceratop » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:09 pm

GreatOdinsRaven wrote:
triceratop wrote:
jhfenton wrote:
triceratop wrote:All expense ratios are now 0.07%. Of course, this is backward-looking; it is possible that lower costs are ahead of us.

I saw the press release this morning, checked my spreadsheet, and saw that I had already changed my ERs for VSIGX (Int Govt) and VSCSX (Short Corp) some weeks ago.

That inspired me to check and notice that based on the recently-filed annual report VSS is set to decline from 17 bp to 13 bp and VFSCX from 31 bp to 27 bp (both FTSE Small Cap ex-US ETF and Investor shares). And VWO/VEMAX (Emerging Markets) are set to decline to 14 bp. Vanguard makes it official when the updated prospectus is filed, but the numbers come from the footnotes in the annual report.

Funds with November 30 annual report dates will be next, but they're not in yet.


Thanks for the news. The VSS news especially is encouraging: International Small-cap is going to be 2bp more expensive than total market international (VXUS/VTIAX is set to decrease to 0.11%).

It looks like my weighted slice and dice portfolio ER will be 9bp( :!: ), but I don't hard-code my ERs so I'll wait for my Google spreadsheet to update it automagically. Sure makes it easier to spend more on some of the more exotic slices that are weighted less.


How did you hard-code it into your spreadsheet? Is there a basic spreadsheet framework that you used?


I don't hard-code it into my spreadsheet, though apparently jhfenton does. I use the following code in my sheet for ETFs (A1 is a cell containing the Ticker):

Code: Select all

=INDEX(SPLIT(INDEX(importHTML(CONCATENATE("http://etfs.morningstar.com/quote-banner?&t=", A1), "table", 1),1,13), " "), 1, 2)*100


Mutual funds' expense ratios can be obtained via querying the expense ratio directly from the google finance API.
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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by GreatOdinsRaven » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:28 pm

triceratop wrote:
I don't hard-code it into my spreadsheet, though apparently jhfenton does. I use the following code in my sheet for ETFs (A1 is a cell containing the Ticker):

Code: Select all

=INDEX(SPLIT(INDEX(importHTML(CONCATENATE("http://etfs.morningstar.com/quote-banner?&t=", A1), "table", 1),1,13), " "), 1, 2)*100


Mutual funds' expense ratios can be obtained via querying the expense ratio directly from the google finance API.


Triceratop,

Thanks. I created my own google sheets spreadsheet for my portfolio. Updates ETF/mutual fund prices. I found a way to automatically update my and my wife's Vanguard 529 account values via a thread on this forum.

I'm not tech savvy but I also figured out how to have it automatically calculate my AA relative to my 5/25 bands and I added conditional formatting to make the boxes red when I needed to rebalance (and I have cells that tell me the exact dollar amount to hold in each fund). The only thing I have to manually do is manually update the number of shares we have In each fund. It breaks down the amounts/percentages that I have to add to each taxable and retirement account so that my contributions stay correctly allocated.

It took weeks of tinkering around with it to get it to work.

I'd like to be able to update my expense ratios and calculate their costs using the formula you gave me. I'll try it out when I get home. Does it work for google sheets?

Did you apply it to a standard spreadsheet obtainable via this forum? I'd love to be able to compare what I've done with others and update mine as necessary. (For example- I can't calculate IRR. I have no idea how to do something like that, but I would LOVE to be able to do this).

Thank you again,
GOR
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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by stlutz » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:06 pm

I'm looking at that annual report. It's from October and doesn't mention expense ratios moving down.

Read footnote 1 on page 2. Those are the numbers (actual realized expenses) that precede official published expense ratio changes.


The other place you can look is the "Financial Highlights" section for each fund which shows the expense ratio for the past 5 years.

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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by triceratop » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:24 pm

GreatOdinsRaven wrote:
triceratop wrote:
I don't hard-code it into my spreadsheet, though apparently jhfenton does. I use the following code in my sheet for ETFs (A1 is a cell containing the Ticker):

Code: Select all

=INDEX(SPLIT(INDEX(importHTML(CONCATENATE("http://etfs.morningstar.com/quote-banner?&t=", A1), "table", 1),1,13), " "), 1, 2)*100


Mutual funds' expense ratios can be obtained via querying the expense ratio directly from the google finance API.


Triceratop,

Thanks. I created my own google sheets spreadsheet for my portfolio. Updates ETF/mutual fund prices. I found a way to automatically update my and my wife's Vanguard 529 account values via a thread on this forum.

I'm not tech savvy but I also figured out how to have it automatically calculate my AA relative to my 5/25 bands and I added conditional formatting to make the boxes red when I needed to rebalance (and I have cells that tell me the exact dollar amount to hold in each fund). The only thing I have to manually do is manually update the number of shares we have In each fund. It breaks down the amounts/percentages that I have to add to each taxable and retirement account so that my contributions stay correctly allocated.

It took weeks of tinkering around with it to get it to work.

I'd like to be able to update my expense ratios and calculate their costs using the formula you gave me. I'll try it out when I get home. Does it work for google sheets?

Did you apply it to a standard spreadsheet obtainable via this forum? I'd love to be able to compare what I've done with others and update mine as necessary. (For example- I can't calculate IRR. I have no idea how to do something like that, but I would LOVE to be able to do this).

Thank you again,
GOR


This is what I use. It's a Google Spreadsheet which combines several sheets from elsewhere on the forum and wiki (notably, I believe I use LadyGeek's for rebalancing bands) in addition to my own sheets for calculating tax costs. It is also heavily modded by myself for what I prefer to visualized about my portfolio.

Link here.

Obviously you'll need to modify your desired asset allocation, on the "Rebalance" tab, and change the funds to whatever you use. It should take a fair amount of tweaking. Also, the tax costs will likely be wrong if you switch funds so keep that in mind, as my sheet references an existing spreadsheet of mine and the numbers are specific to the funds in the sheet currently. Precisely, I reference individual cells from my Relative tax efficency thread's spreadsheet that apply to the funds that I use.

For IRR I use longinvest's spreadsheet which gives not only IRR but standardized portfolio returns as well (returns as close to independent of cash flows as possible)
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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by jhfenton » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:25 pm

GreatOdinsRaven wrote:
triceratop wrote:
jhfenton wrote:
triceratop wrote:All expense ratios are now 0.07%. Of course, this is backward-looking; it is possible that lower costs are ahead of us.

I saw the press release this morning, checked my spreadsheet, and saw that I had already changed my ERs for VSIGX (Int Govt) and VSCSX (Short Corp) some weeks ago.

That inspired me to check and notice that based on the recently-filed annual report VSS is set to decline from 17 bp to 13 bp and VFSCX from 31 bp to 27 bp (both FTSE Small Cap ex-US ETF and Investor shares). And VWO/VEMAX (Emerging Markets) are set to decline to 14 bp. Vanguard makes it official when the updated prospectus is filed, but the numbers come from the footnotes in the annual report.

Funds with November 30 annual report dates will be next, but they're not in yet.


Thanks for the news. The VSS news especially is encouraging: International Small-cap is going to be 2bp more expensive than total market international (VXUS/VTIAX is set to decrease to 0.11%).

It looks like my weighted slice and dice portfolio ER will be 9bp( :!: ), but I don't hard-code my ERs so I'll wait for my Google spreadsheet to update it automagically. Sure makes it easier to spend more on some of the more exotic slices that are weighted less.


How did you hard-code it into your spreadsheet? Is there a basic spreadsheet framework that you used?

I do hard-code the fund ERs into my Excel spreadsheet. Then I have a formula that does an asset-weighted average ER. (My slice-and-dice portfolio is also currently 9 bp.)

I pull in prices with the Yahoo Finance API. I'll have to see if I can make triceratop's ER query work in Excel. I'm not sure I don't prefer manually coding the ERs once a year. I consider them official once the annual reports come out. It would bug me to have to wait to see the new numbers on my spreadsheet. :sharebeer

My wildest Vanguard fund dream is Admiral Shares for FTSE ex-US Small Cap. They have ETF, Investor, and Institutional, just no Admiral. Surely their time is coming !

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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by triceratop » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:48 pm

jhfenton wrote:I do hard-code the fund ERs into my Excel spreadsheet. Then I have a formula that does an asset-weighted average ER. (My slice-and-dice portfolio is also currently 9 bp.)

I pull in prices with the Yahoo Finance API. I'll have to see if I can make triceratop's ER query work in Excel. I'm not sure I don't prefer manually coding the ERs once a year. I consider them official once the annual reports come out. It would bug me to have to wait to see the new numbers on my spreadsheet. :sharebeer

My wildest Vanguard fund dream is Admiral Shares for FTSE ex-US Small Cap. They have ETF, Investor, and Institutional, just no Admiral. Surely their time is coming !


I asked a Vanguard rep about this directly this summer and she said there were no short-to-intermediate term plans to add one. The impression I got was that there has to be several large-$ quasi-institutional investors for them to justify opening a new fund.

It's good the ERs are declining, because when I look at the cost of tilting to possibly tilting to small/value in International, esp. emerging markets, ... :annoyed
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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by triceratop » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:34 am

jhfenton wrote:
triceratop wrote:All expense ratios are now 0.07%. Of course, this is backward-looking; it is possible that lower costs are ahead of us.

I saw the press release this morning, checked my spreadsheet, and saw that I had already changed my ERs for VSIGX (Int Govt) and VSCSX (Short Corp) some weeks ago.

That inspired me to check and notice that based on the recently-filed annual report VSS is set to decline from 17 bp to 13 bp and VFSCX from 31 bp to 27 bp (both FTSE Small Cap ex-US ETF and Investor shares). And VWO/VEMAX (Emerging Markets) are set to decline to 14 bp. Vanguard makes it official when the updated prospectus is filed, but the numbers come from the footnotes in the annual report.

Funds with November 30 annual report dates will be next, but they're not in yet.


I was just emailed the official VSS report by Vanguard and looked at the "Securities Lending - Net" figure on the statement of operations. It appears as if, $11,288,000 of securities lending income derived from $3,346,669,000 of net assets, the actual expense ratio on our VSS is (20.7bp). We are paid a significant sum to hold VSS. :) As comparison, the actual expense ratio of its companion fund VEU is 2.7bp. VXUS comes out to 0bp net cost.
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Re: Vanguard Sector Bond Funds - Lowered Costs

Post by stlutz » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:20 pm

And now it's time to start the clock on when Schwab will drop their ERs on SCHR and SCHO...


And Schwab has now lowered the ERs on these two ETFs to .06%.

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