How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

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Hawaiishrimp
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How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Hawaiishrimp »

Hi Bogleheads,

I am at about 1 million in my portfolio. How long does it take you to turn 1 million to 2 millions in your case? I will put in $3-4K per month for the next 10 years.. Just want to see how long you guys take? That's my current financial goal.. I know it all depends on timing, that's why I'm asking how long it takes "you" to reach that.

Update with additional info:
1. My AA: 40% US, 30% Int'l, 30% Bonds
2. All in low cost index funds
Last edited by Hawaiishrimp on Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I save and invest my money, so money can make money for me, so I don't have to make money eventually.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

4% annual return at 3,500 a month for 120 periods with a starting base of $1 million will get you to the promised land. :) I'll let you know in 10 years how it all turns out.
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Peter Foley
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Peter Foley »

In addition to annual contributions, the answer is highly dependent on market returns and one's AA.

With no additional contributions if you reached 1M in mid 2009 and had an aggressive AA it would have taken just a few years. If you reached 1M during the dot com boom, it would have taken a longer time period.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Van-Guard23 »

It took us many, many years to achieve $1M...but "only" 4 years and 4 months to double that. The power of compounding. However, as Peter Foley indicated, it all depends on market conditions and your Asset Allocation.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Hawaiishrimp »

Van-Guard23 wrote:It took us many, many years to achieve $1M...but "only" 4 years and 4 months to double that. The power of compounding. However, as Peter Foley indicated, it all depends on market conditions and your Asset Allocation.
That is nice. Mind if I ask from what year to what year to double that?
I save and invest my money, so money can make money for me, so I don't have to make money eventually.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Van-Guard23 »

Hawaiishrimp wrote:
Van-Guard23 wrote:It took us many, many years to achieve $1M...but "only" 4 years and 4 months to double that. The power of compounding. However, as Peter Foley indicated, it all depends on market conditions and your Asset Allocation.
That is nice. Mind if I ask from what year to what year to double that?
Feb 2012 to June 2016. Looks like S&P 500 returned just over 54% over that period (if the website I am looking at is correct)...of course we were also contributing up to 40% of our income into our portfolio during that period.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by lgs88 »

Hawaiishrimp wrote:
Van-Guard23 wrote:It took us many, many years to achieve $1M...but "only" 4 years and 4 months to double that. The power of compounding. However, as Peter Foley indicated, it all depends on market conditions and your Asset Allocation.
That is nice. Mind if I ask from what year to what year to double that?
Had you put your $1 million in VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market, Admiral shares) at the end of February in 2009, you'd have $2 million by the end of April 2011. That's just over 2 years. It then dropped again, but by the end of Feb. 2012, you'd be back over $2 million again.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by duffer »

Hawaiishrimp wrote:Hi Bogleheads,

I am at about 1 million in my portfolio. How long does it take you to turn 1 million to 2 millions in your case? I will put in $3-4K per month for the next 10 years.. Just want to see how long you guys take? That's my current financial goal.. I know it all depends on timing, that's why I'm asking how long it takes "you" to reach that.

Update with additional info:
1. My AA: 30% US, 30% Int'l, 30% Bonds
2. All in low cost index funds

Long term on average, equities return just under 7% a year.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Hawaiishrimp »

lgs88 wrote:
Hawaiishrimp wrote:
Van-Guard23 wrote:It took us many, many years to achieve $1M...but "only" 4 years and 4 months to double that. The power of compounding. However, as Peter Foley indicated, it all depends on market conditions and your Asset Allocation.
That is nice. Mind if I ask from what year to what year to double that?
Had you put your $1 million in VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market, Admiral shares) at the end of February in 2009, you'd have $2 million by the end of April 2011. That's just over 2 years. It then dropped again, but by the end of Feb. 2012, you'd be back over $2 million again.

Thanks. I wish I'm that lucky. I didn't panic sell during that time, but bought more. Those turn out to be the best investment for me ever. :sharebeer
I save and invest my money, so money can make money for me, so I don't have to make money eventually.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by bubbadog »

40 years to get to 1 million, about 7 years to get to 2 million.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Day9 »

Starting with $1 million, adding $36,000 per year ($3k/month), growing at 7% would become $2 million in about 7.5 years.

With 5% growth it would take 9.5 years.

So the fact that you say you can save at least $3,000 per month for the next 10 years makes me believe you will reach your goal.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by tbradnc »

The only problem is that a million dollars isn't what it used to be. I think $5,000,000 is the new 1,000,000.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

tbradnc wrote:The only problem is that a million dollars isn't what it used to be. I think $5,000,000 is the new 1,000,000.
There will always be someone who has more and someone who has less. If one can accumulate any sum of assets that is the product of their own efforts (no windfall, inheritance, funny money stock option lottery ticket), then you are doing just fine. Last time I looked, a million dollars still had considerable optionality, having no money means extremely limited options.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by tbradnc »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
tbradnc wrote:The only problem is that a million dollars isn't what it used to be. I think $5,000,000 is the new 1,000,000.
There will always be someone who has more and someone who has less. If one can accumulate any sum of assets that is the product of their own efforts (no windfall, inheritance, funny money stock option lottery ticket), then you are doing just fine. Last time I looked, a million dollars still had considerable optionality, having no money means extremely limited options.
That's very true. I wasn't trying to diminish OPs accomplishment - it is something most people will never experience and it's a big deal. I was simply pointing out that being a millionaire today doesn't bestow the financial clout it once did. (I think that's why VG now has a status above Flagship and I I believe the new top status ... starts at... $5,000,000.)

I rarely (like.. never) quote Cher but once I heard her giving an interview and she said, "I've been rich and I've been poor. Rich is better."

See: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/07/record-n ... he-us.html
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by minesweep »

tbradnc wrote:The only problem is that a million dollars isn't what it used to be. I think $5,000,000 is the new 1,000,000.
I recall watching “The Millionaire” TV series in which a fictional benefactor (John Beresford Tipton) gave away 1 million dollars anonymously to a person he never met. The TV series aired from 1955-1960. 1 million back in 1955 is worth 8.86 million today.

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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Toons »

"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

tbradnc wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
tbradnc wrote:The only problem is that a million dollars isn't what it used to be. I think $5,000,000 is the new 1,000,000.
There will always be someone who has more and someone who has less. If one can accumulate any sum of assets that is the product of their own efforts (no windfall, inheritance, funny money stock option lottery ticket), then you are doing just fine. Last time I looked, a million dollars still had considerable optionality, having no money means extremely limited options.
That's very true. I wasn't trying to diminish OPs accomplishment - it is something most people will never experience and it's a big deal. I was simply pointing out that being a millionaire today doesn't bestow the financial clout it once did. (I think that's why VG now has a status above Flagship and I I believe the new top status ... starts at... $5,000,000.)

I rarely (like.. never) quote Cher but once I heard her giving an interview and she said, "I've been rich and I've been poor. Rich is better."

See: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/07/record-n ... he-us.html
It's true, at one point, twenty years ago you could have purchased a nice 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath home on a quarter acre lot for less than $150K, today, the same home will cost you $500K+, at the same time had you been fortunate enough to have invested it in the S&P 500, your $1 million would now be worth close to $7.5 million. You're right, $5 million is the "I've got it made fund" in NYC, if you're careful with it, in other parts of the country, $1 million could still have the "I've got it made" cache.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by friar1610 »

Still waiting. :?
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by mptfan »

duffer wrote: Long term on average, equities return just under 7% a year.
According to Vanguard, a 100% equities portfolio had an average annual return of 10.1% between 1925 and 2015.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insigh ... llocations
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Abe »

When I hear people say 1 million isn't what it used to be, I agree, it's not. But it's still a lot of money. At 4% SWR, creating $40k a year plus a little social security, most people can live on that.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by House Blend »

tbradnc wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
tbradnc wrote:The only problem is that a million dollars isn't what it used to be. I think $5,000,000 is the new 1,000,000.
There will always be someone who has more and someone who has less. If one can accumulate any sum of assets that is the product of their own efforts (no windfall, inheritance, funny money stock option lottery ticket), then you are doing just fine. Last time I looked, a million dollars still had considerable optionality, having no money means extremely limited options.
That's very true. I wasn't trying to diminish OPs accomplishment - it is something most people will never experience and it's a big deal. I was simply pointing out that being a millionaire today doesn't bestow the financial clout it once did. (I think that's why VG now has a status above Flagship and I I believe the new top status ... starts at... $5,000,000.)
Actually, that particular detail contradicts your point.

"Flagship Supreme" (or whatever they call it--I liken it to a Burrito Supreme at Taco Bell) has been around for quite a while. And until recently, it required $10M in VG assets.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Steve K »

Four years and one month.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by blueberry »

But your health and a good dog are priceless :D .
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by barnaclebob »

Wive and I have gone from 1MM to 1.2MM in 15 months counting from the first time we hit 1MM, only 11 months from the second time. It will probably take another 3 years to get to 2MM
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by LarryAllen »

I have never kept track of hitting "milestones." Rather I found myself pleasantly surprised but the reality is as quick as you hit the milestone the stock market can drop 20% so it doesn't mean much to me. The key is you are saving money each month. Keep that up!
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by SpringMan »

The Rule of 72 says dividing the % interest rate into 72 will give you the number of years for money to double. Of course any new money invested will accelerate that time frame.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by wolf359 »

I also found it fun to plug my asset allocation into Portfolio Visualizer and see how long it would take at different historical dates.

http://www.portfoliovisualizer.com

That might answer your question more directly. How would you have fared from 2001-2011 (a period which encapsulates the tech crash and the 2008 Financial Crisis)?
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Bacchus01 »

It took us roughly 13 years to hit our first million in assets

It took 4 years and 3 months to hit the next million

I predict around 2.5 years to hit the next million
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by hoffmisc »

I think the OP wanted real life examples. I haven't done it, but have gotten close twice.

Dec 84 $12K
Dec 03 $1.0 m
May 08 $1.97 m (pretty close!!)
Feb 09 $1.5 m
Dec 09 $1.9 m -- divorce $0.95 m
Sep 10 crossed $1.0 m without going under
Dec 15 remarried +200K
Jul 16 $1.8 m

So not there yet. Hopefully next year, which would be about 7 years...

M.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by am »

Curious at what point do contributions to portfolio become almost insignificant and market and compounding takes over?
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Hawaiishrimp »

tbradnc wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
tbradnc wrote:The only problem is that a million dollars isn't what it used to be. I think $5,000,000 is the new 1,000,000.
There will always be someone who has more and someone who has less. If one can accumulate any sum of assets that is the product of their own efforts (no windfall, inheritance, funny money stock option lottery ticket), then you are doing just fine. Last time I looked, a million dollars still had considerable optionality, having no money means extremely limited options.
That's very true. I wasn't trying to diminish OPs accomplishment - it is something most people will never experience and it's a big deal. I was simply pointing out that being a millionaire today doesn't bestow the financial clout it once did. (I think that's why VG now has a status above Flagship and I I believe the new top status ... starts at... $5,000,000.)

I rarely (like.. never) quote Cher but once I heard her giving an interview and she said, "I've been rich and I've been poor. Rich is better."

See: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/07/record-n ... he-us.html

My short term goal is: 2 millions, ultimately retirement goal is: 5 millions. Just FYI
I save and invest my money, so money can make money for me, so I don't have to make money eventually.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by bhsince87 »

41 years to $1M, 8 years to $2M, 3 years to $3M.

The compounding train does work. But increases in salary and amount of savings make a huge difference.

And don't forget, inflation is riding on the same compounding train.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by badbreath »

not as fast as I would like. ( I want to retire now) :greedy
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by staythecourse »

For others reading this thread I just wanted to throw some perspective. Most of those who "jumped" from 1 to 2 million is NOT normal. No offense to many who have done it, but is more of a product of the stock market the last 5+ years. That is not going to be easy to reproduce.

For those trying to get to such numbers it will take some luck in the market cooperating. Market returns can not be counted on so word to the wise and just focus on one what you can: Saving, LBYM, asset allocation, low cost index funds, tax efficiency, staying the course...

Looking at just some random x years to get to y million is very deceiving as folks seem to always minimize the luck of the market in the short run.

Good luck.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by ryman554 »

staythecourse wrote:For others reading this thread I just wanted to throw some perspective. Most of those who "jumped" from 1 to 2 million is NOT normal. No offense to many who have done it, but is more of a product of the stock market the last 5+ years. That is not going to be easy to reproduce.

For those trying to get to such numbers it will take some luck in the market cooperating. Market returns can not be counted on so word to the wise and just focus on one what you can: Saving, LBYM, asset allocation, low cost index funds, tax efficiency, staying the course...

Looking at just some random x years to get to y million is very deceiving as folks seem to always minimize the luck of the market in the short run.

Good luck.
Perhaps, but -- assuming the market returns are positive -- it's a lot easier to go form 1 mil to 2 than it is to get the first million. And it does happen a lot faster.

Two factors:
1. 4-8% growth. 7% (nominal) gets you there in a decade or so without adding.
2. More money to invest. By the time you get to $1million in assets, unless you inherited it, your human capital is likely at the point where you are plowing $$ into investments -- 50-100k a year or so. Just doing that gets you there in a decade or two.

Combine 1 and 2 and be conservative and you end up easily less than 10 years. Without the stock run-up we are seeing. Investment income is exponential, not linear.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by ryman554 »

am wrote:Curious at what point do contributions to portfolio become almost insignificant and market and compounding takes over?
Only if you are really, really rich.

You get to $1 million in assets and your growth per year is something like 50k ish. About the same as you would be saving.
Even at $10 million, it's 500k ish. Your savings rate is now 10% of your growth. Is that still significant?

At $100 million, saving is a rounding error. =)
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by investingdad »

I find it very interesting that there were posts above about taking ten to fifteen years to get to $1 million and just four or five for the next million.

This is Exactly how we are tracking.

From 23 to 39 for us to reach $1 million. Just turned 43 and we are about 30k shy of making it to $2 million. So I'm thinking four years.

Who knows where we go from here...
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by dbr »

investingdad wrote:I find it very interesting that there were posts above about taking ten to fifteen years to get to $1 million and just four or five for the next million.

This is Exactly how we are tracking.

From 23 to 39 for us to reach $1 million. Just turned 43 and we are about 30k shy of making it to $2 million. So I'm thinking four years.

Who knows where we go from here...
That experience might be hugely period dependent. Others have probably brought that out, but I haven't been reading everything in this thread.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by bhsince87 »

dbr wrote:
That experience might be hugely period dependent. Others have probably brought that out, but I haven't been reading everything in this thread.
It's actually dependent on a LOT of stuff!

Off the top of my head: Market returns, interest rates, inflation rates, wage increases, inheritance, sickness/disability, marriage, divorce, children, house appreciation, disasters, lawsuits, etc, etc.

But in general, it's true that the second $1M usually comes faster than the first, the third faster than the second, etc.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace." Samuel Adams
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by dbr »

bhsince87 wrote:
dbr wrote:
That experience might be hugely period dependent. Others have probably brought that out, but I haven't been reading everything in this thread.
It's actually dependent on a LOT of stuff!

Off the top of my head: Market returns, interest rates, inflation rates, wage increases, inheritance, sickness/disability, marriage, divorce, children, house appreciation, disasters, lawsuits, etc, etc.

But in general, it's true that the second $1M usually comes faster than the first, the third faster than the second, etc.
Which does lead to the comment that how anyone here might have turned $1M into $2M may not be that helpful to the OP. BH is not some sort of secret formula nor remarkable know-how.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by sco »

[OT comment removed by moderator prudent] I am maxing my 401k out (now) but have been contributing to it for 16 years. I'm just at 400k. I believe I hit a bad cycle, and it took me a little time to find the Boglehead way. 16 years and 400k here. Hoping for 1M by 25 years, and 2M by 35.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by cfs »

A million is a million is a million.

I concur with our shipmate Abe [on the comments about a million is not what it used to be, but it is still a LOT of money]. Running a simulation in Vanguard, $1,000,000 with a $30k (3.0%) withdrawal, 30% equities/70% bonds porfolio, probability that your portfolio survices 30 years is 100%. What's wrong with that? Note, I don't use the 4% or 3% withdrawal rates, I use the TLW strategy and my spending rate is around 1.5%. Good luck reaching ONE million, reaching TWO million, and reaching much more.

Thanks for reading.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by stonerolled »

The answer to the question is usually [OT comment removed by moderator prudent] a lot shorter than the first million.
This is because they probably saved and lived below their means for the first million and it became a lifestyle for the second million. I am beginning to think that the best part of saving is not the bucket of money at the end, it is keeping lifestyle creep in check. No bucket of money is ever safe from someone who isn't ready for it.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Wagnerjb »

Due to some fortunate timing, it only took me 2 years.

I was in my 40's and my equity allocation was between 75% and 80%. Roughly half of the increase was due to the stock market level rising by around 50% (30% first year, 15% second year). The remainder was composed of savings (401k contributions, matching funds, deposits to college 529 accounts, after-tax accounts) plus a healthy increase in the value of stock options. I had been granted stock options for the previous 5 years that had essentially zero value (due to lackluster growth and/or declines in our stock), and our stock price surged around 75% over those two years, turning the options into gold :D

Will this happen to you? Very likely not. But the lessons are clear:

a) Set an asset allocation that is appropriate and stick with it through down and up markets

b) Take an appropriate amount of equity risk when you are younger and can afford to

c) Don't exercise your stock options the minute they vest and are worth $100.


Best wishes.
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Re: How long to turn 1 million to 2 millions for you?

Post by Abe »

If you start with 1 million and invest $3,500 per month, you will have 2 million in:
105 months @ 5%
93 months @ 6%
84 months @ 7%
65 months @ 10%
47 months @ 15%
I wouldn't count on the last two. :beer
Slow and steady wins the race.
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