Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

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harikaried
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Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by harikaried » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:51 pm

Two weeks ago, Fidelity announced a new Total International Index Fund (FTIPX) which tracks MSCI All Country World Index ex USA Investable Market:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2 ... p-Launches
https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /31635V653

A common complaint about the previous closest Fidelity fund, Global ex US Index (FSGDX) was that it was primarily large-cap similar to Vanguard's FTSE All-World ex-US (VEU/VFWAX). The new fund is more like Vanguard's Total International Stock (VXUS/VTIAX).

Is there anything we should be aware of before we "Sell All Shares and use proceeds to buy another" from FSGDX to FTIPX? Our taxable accounts don't have any substantially identical funds, and we would be doing this in our IRA/401ks.

retiredjg
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by retiredjg » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:10 pm

I'd probably wait a week for bugs to work out, but I don't see any reason not to switch.

mervinj7
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by mervinj7 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:13 pm

An index that covers 99% of the world's equity market instead of 85% sounds good to me. Should we be updating the wiki to change the recommended Fidelity 3-Fund portfolio or should we wait a bit to see if it works out?

Comparison of indexes:
https://www.msci.com/resources/factshee ... sd-net.pdf
https://www.msci.com/resources/factshee ... sa-imi.pdf

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baw703916
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by baw703916 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:15 pm

Thank you for starting this thread!

I have a retirement account with Fidelity currently invested in the low-minimum version of global ex-US index. In a few months I should be above the $10K minimum for the premium shares. I think once that happens I'll move it into FTIPX instead of FSGDX.
Most of my posts assume no behavioral errors.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by GMan82 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:34 pm

That's interesting. I had no idea they were bringing a new total international index fund. I may switch my current FSGUX (Their current international ex-US fund that lacks small caps) into this one.

Now if only they developed a small cap value index fund
... I can't do ETFs in my BrokerageLink at the moment.

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William4u
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by William4u » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:36 pm

You might check the tax efficiency of Vanguard vs Fidelity. I own both Vanguard Total Market Admiral and Fidelity Total Spartan Advantage in taxable. Vanguard's dividends are 100% Qualified Dividends. Vanguard has no Capital Gain Distributions, and has had none for year and years.

However, for tax year 2015, Fidelity has substantial non-Qualified Dividends and Capital Gain Distributions. This makes it less tax efficient.

I do not know how the international index funds compare.

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whodidntante
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by whodidntante » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:38 pm

I will make my way into this new fund eventually. I don't care about cap gain distributions because I will hold this in a tax advantaged account. Should I be concerned about tracking error for this newborn baby?

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by Whakamole » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:53 pm

This has the potential to be an excellent TLH partner with VXUS (Vanguard Total International), since they are both international with small cap, but use different indices: FTIPX uses "MSCI ACWI (All Country World Index) ex USA Investable Market Index" and VXUS uses "FTSE Global All Cap ex US Index."

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Hayden
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by Hayden » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:25 pm

Thanks for posting. I will use this next time I TLH

Bitzer
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by Bitzer » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:52 pm

For those of us currently invested in VXUS in a tax-advantaged account, would there be an advantage to switching to FTIPX?

am
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by am » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:27 pm

I think Fidelity has a 3 month redemption fee for the Fsgdx/Fsgdx. Anyone know how to avoid it if switching to the new fund? How is the ER?

supernova
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by supernova » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:43 pm

It looks like it has a 0.12% ER. I am switching my Brokeragelink to use that instead of FSGDX (Global ex-US). Thank you, harikaried!

markettracker
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by markettracker » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:25 am

Out of curiosity, how does it work when a new mutual fund is created? Do they have initial capital that customer money gets added to, or do they buy up stocks as money flows in? Are there tracking errors caused by a large influx of money?

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Boomer01
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by Boomer01 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:44 am

I think I'll also be switching from the Global Ex US (FSGDX).

JimmyD
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by JimmyD » Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:54 am

Indeed an interesting development.

For those who are considering switching, are you planning to dump 100% of FSGDX for FTIPX in your tax advantaged accounts in one fell swoop? Are there any potential drawbacks of doing so?

MisterBill
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by MisterBill » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:18 am

I'm also glad to see this thread. I actually was trying to create one yesterday but could not remember my password for the site :).

I have FSGDX in both taxable and retirement accounts. I guess I will switch the retirement accounts now but the holdings in my taxable account are still short term gains (just bought in January), so I'm going to have to wait a while. Maybe I'll look late in the year and see if I have some capital losses to cover them if I switch (I have a bunch from when I liquidated a previous account to move to Fidelity index funds).

I suspect that the wiki post here suggesting which funds to use should be changed to reference the new fund. Also part of the announcement is that Fidelity has lowered their expense ratio on many of their index funds such that they are equal to or even better than Vanguard (there is a separate post here). Clearly they're going after the index fund investors who were going to Vanguard.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by jjface » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:27 am

am wrote:I think Fidelity has a 3 month redemption fee for the Fsgdx/Fsgdx. Anyone know how to avoid it if switching to the new fund? How is the ER?


Patience :happy

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William4u
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by William4u » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:31 am

Bitzer wrote:For those of us currently invested in VXUS in a tax-advantaged account, would there be an advantage to switching to FTIPX?


None. I think the main idea here is that FTIPX just added small caps, and so it is now pretty much the same as VXUS.

mervinj7
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by mervinj7 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:33 am

MisterBill wrote:
I suspect that the wiki post here suggesting which funds to use should be changed to reference the new fund. Also part of the announcement is that Fidelity has lowered their expense ratio on many of their index funds such that they are equal to or even better than Vanguard (there is a separate post here). Clearly they're going after the index fund investors who were going to Vanguard.


MisterBill, I made the changes to the wiki to include the new fund.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Fidelity

MisterBill
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by MisterBill » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:07 pm

mervinj7 wrote:
MisterBill wrote:
I suspect that the wiki post here suggesting which funds to use should be changed to reference the new fund. Also part of the announcement is that Fidelity has lowered their expense ratio on many of their index funds such that they are equal to or even better than Vanguard (there is a separate post here). Clearly they're going after the index fund investors who were going to Vanguard.


MisterBill, I made the changes to the wiki to include the new fund.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Fidelity


Thanks, but I was referring to https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio

You can change the names while you're at it. :happy

JimmyD
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by JimmyD » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:07 pm

William4u wrote:
Bitzer wrote:For those of us currently invested in VXUS in a tax-advantaged account, would there be an advantage to switching to FTIPX?


None. I think the main idea here is that FTIPX just added small caps, and so it is now pretty much the same as VXUS.


Thanks. Just put my exchange order in.

mervinj7
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by mervinj7 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:22 pm

MisterBill wrote:
Thanks, but I was referring to https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio

You can change the names while you're at it. :happy


Ok, done. When I get some time, I'll need to edit the Fidelity page to include the updated (lower!) ERs.

MisterBill
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by MisterBill » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:40 pm

JimmyD wrote:Thanks. Just put my exchange order in.

Thanks for using the word "exchange". I was trying to figure out how to do this, and had actually done a live chat with Fidelity and they told me that I needed to sell and wait to find out what the proceeds were before putting in the buy order. Turns out there is a "sell and purchase another fund with the proceeds" option that I hadn't noticed originally and is obviously what I wanted to do. Hopefully Fidelity will send me a survey on my chat experience so I can point out that the rep was incorrect! I put in orders for my retirement accounts.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by retiredjg » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:43 pm

William4u wrote:
Bitzer wrote:For those of us currently invested in VXUS in a tax-advantaged account, would there be an advantage to switching to FTIPX?


None. I think the main idea here is that FTIPX just added small caps, and so it is now pretty much the same as VXUS.

I suppose there might be an advantage if the VXUS is held at Fidelity - eliminating the transaction fee to buy it. If both are properly managed, I don't think there should be any significant investment difference between them.

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Elsebet
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by Elsebet » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:17 pm

I currently hold FPMAX and FSIVX for my international portion. Would it be better to sell those and buy FTIPX?

mervinj7
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by mervinj7 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:26 pm

Elsebet wrote:I currently hold FPMAX and FSIVX for my international portion. Would it be better to sell those and buy FTIPX?


If you already hold them in market weight, then you might as well switch a single fund (assuming no tax-related concerns) to simplify your holdings and reduce the effective ER. However, if you do tilt towards emerging markets or to developed markets, then its easier to do that with separate funds.

Johnny Thinwallet
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by Johnny Thinwallet » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:00 pm

JimmyD wrote:Indeed an interesting development.

For those who are considering switching, are you planning to dump 100% of FSGDX for FTIPX in your tax advantaged accounts in one fell swoop? Are there any potential drawbacks of doing so?


The only drawback is to watch the short-term redemption fee if you've recently bought any shares of FSGDX. I think it's a one percent fee on shares redeemed within 90 days of purchase.

I've been DCA'ing into my and my wife's Roth's throughout the year, and we won't be maxed out until the end of August. Still, we have some shares of FSGDX that have been recently bought (including some from last Friday), and we may buy more with the remaining Roth space we have. I'll probably wait until December to do any switching myself. It'll give time for the new fund to get off the ground, and by then the 90 day short term redemption window will have passed for all of our FSGDX shares.

If you have a tax advantaged account and haven't purchased any FSGDX shares in the last 3 months, then you should be good to go anytime.

JimmyD
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by JimmyD » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:37 pm

Johnny Thinwallet wrote:
JimmyD wrote:Indeed an interesting development.

For those who are considering switching, are you planning to dump 100% of FSGDX for FTIPX in your tax advantaged accounts in one fell swoop? Are there any potential drawbacks of doing so?


The only drawback is to watch the short-term redemption fee if you've recently bought any shares of FSGDX. I think it's a one percent fee on shares redeemed within 90 days of purchase.

I've been DCA'ing into my and my wife's Roth's throughout the year, and we won't be maxed out until the end of August. Still, we have some shares of FSGDX that have been recently bought (including some from last Friday), and we may buy more with the remaining Roth space we have. I'll probably wait until December to do any switching myself. It'll give time for the new fund to get off the ground, and by then the 90 day short term redemption window will have passed for all of our FSGDX shares.

If you have a tax advantaged account and haven't purchased any FSGDX shares in the last 3 months, then you should be good to go anytime.


Good call. I noticed Fidelity mentioned that I'd be dinged a little less than $20 for the FSGDX I purchased in the last 90 days. Not a deal killer for me, but I can certainly understand why others would wait.

jginseattle
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by jginseattle » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:48 pm

Thanks for the info. I'm also interested in Fidelity's new Large Cap Value Index fund.

harikaried
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by harikaried » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:27 pm

We already exchanged from FSGDX to FTIPX using the full trade window:

  • Page 1: Sell a Mutual Fund and use the proceeds to buy another mutual fund.
  • Page 2: Sell all Shares
  • Page 2: BUY Fund FTIPX

The new mobile-friendly movable trade ticket window is even faster:

  • Action: Sell All Shares and use proceeds to buy another
  • Symbol: FTIPX

It's somewhat amusing to view the account position details and have it show "Performance is not available for FTIPX." I guess that really is investing not based on past performance. ;)

WJW
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by WJW » Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:38 am

Thanks for the info, I exchanged FSGDX for FTIPX.

selters
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by selters » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:58 am

Does it use optimisation or full replication? It probably won't matter in the real world, but the ideal is surely to own a fund that owns all of the stocks in the index at their weightings in the index.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by niceguy7376 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:25 am

Just noticed this thread. As part of my mid year rebalancing over the weekend, I will look into this exchange as well.

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HueyLD
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by HueyLD » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:04 pm

FSGDX = VFWAX

FTIPX = VTIAX

lgs88
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by lgs88 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:51 pm

Are there any "buyer bewares" to consider when investing in a brand-new fund like this? Net assets were ~$18 million as of July 31st. Can we expect it to display significant tracking error as it gets "up to speed"?
merely an interested amateur

harikaried
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by harikaried » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:11 pm

Other than its inception day of June 7th, FTIPX seems to be tracking its index (MSCI ACWI ex US IMI) pretty closely. iShares ETF IXUS tracks the same index and since June 8th to yesterday, the $10k growth for the two are $9,920 FTIPX and $9,934 IXUS. That's less than a 0.15% difference. Compared to Vanguard's VXUS or VTIAX which tracks a slightly different index but has similar objectives, FTIPX is less than 0.4% different.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by GMan82 » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:04 am

A slightly related question.

I finished converting my fidelity global ex US Fund in my 403b to the new total international index fund. Morningstar hasn't yet classified it,and even vanguard's portfolio analysis tool says I have a large % of unclassified shares.

When do these new funds usually get classified?

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FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by voyager » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:01 pm

[Thread merged into here, see below (Page 2). --admin LadyGeek]

Hello,

Fidelity recently introduced FTIPX Fidelity® Total International Index Fund.

I have so far held VTIAX from Vangaurd, but need to buy the corresponding Fidelity fund now due to some account consolidation. Seems like Fidelity only recently started offering its own equivalent, FTIPX beginning this June, and now has assets of $ 31M.

I was wondering if you recommend going right ahead and buying FTIPX, or should one wait for some time (for what reasons ?) before buying a recently introduced mutual fund ?

Thank you.

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El Greco
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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by El Greco » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:13 pm

FWIW. I just bought in to FTIPX. I wanted to create a 3 fund index portfolio at Fidelity to mimic my Vanguard account. It looks to be substantially the same as VTIAX and I'm sure it will fill fast. After all, this is Fidelity, not some rinky dink operation. And you can't beat the expense ratio.

harikaried
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by harikaried » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:26 pm

GMan82 wrote:Morningstar hasn't yet classified it,and even vanguard's portfolio analysis tool says I have a large % of unclassified shares.
Does it show a category/classification now? I noticed the Morningstar page is different now:

http://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/FTIPX/quote.html

It does show Category: Foreign Large Blend, but I think it has had that for a while. What is new though is that it now shows information about holdings:
Top 5 holdings:
2.25% Mini Msci Eafe Fut Sep16 Mfsu6
1.61% iShares MSCI India
0.92% Nestle SA
0.71% Novartis AG
0.68% Roche Holding AG Dividend Right Cert.

World Regions:
07.86% North America
02.97% Latin America
13.31% United Kingdom
29.67% Europe Developed
01.34% Europe Emerging
02.38% Africa/Middle East
17.46% Japan
05.44% Australasia
09.73% Asia Developed
09.84% Asia Emerging

This is compared to VTIAX: http://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/VTIAX/quote.html
Top 5 holdings:
1.25% Nestle SA
0.99% Novartis AG
0.92% Roche Holding AG Dividend Right Cert.
0.79% Toyota Motor Corp
0.70% Samsung Electronics Co Ltd

World Regions:
07.94% North America
02.97% Latin America
13.56% United Kingdom
29.90% Europe Developed
01.33% Europe Emerging
02.18% Africa/Middle East
17.77% Japan
05.67% Australasia
09.37% Asia Developed
09.31% Asia Emerging


Charting the 10k growth from June 9th (a couple days after the official start of FTIPX) to today, VTIAX has grown to 10,275.20 while FTIPX has grown to 10,279.72. So at almost 3 months, it is less than 0.05% different from VTIAX.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by MisterBill » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:45 pm

harikaried wrote:
GMan82 wrote:Morningstar hasn't yet classified it,and even vanguard's portfolio analysis tool says I have a large % of unclassified shares.
Does it show a category/classification now? I noticed the Morningstar page is different now:

http://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/FTIPX/quote.html

It does show Category: Foreign Large Blend, but I think it has had that for a while. What is new though is that it now shows information about holdings

Thanks for pointing this out. I had problems with Personal Capital categorizing it as "unknown" so they hard-coded it but that caused problems with not seeing the daily percent change in value. They told me it was because Morningstar did not have the information on the fund. Now that it does, I will tell PC to check again and hopefully they can remove the override.

am
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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by am » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:28 pm

With such low assets, are they still buying stock to match index and therefore more likely to not track the index? I am sticking with the all large cap foreign fund for now since I think the difference in return between the 2 funds will be negligible. Not to mention that the fund has a redemption fee.

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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by lack_ey » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:53 pm

am wrote:With such low assets, are they still buying stock to match index and therefore more likely to not track the index? I am sticking with the all large cap foreign fund for now since I think the difference in return between the 2 funds will be negligible. Not to mention that the fund has a redemption fee.

The old fund, Fidelity International Index Fund - Premium Class (FSIVX), has the same 1% redemption fee for assets held less than 90 days. It doesn't have emerging markets or small caps, whereas the new fund does.

In any case you can avoid the minor possibility of some early fund teething issues dealing with inflows on the small portfolio by just sticking with the old funds or iShares Core MSCI Total International Stock ETF (IXUS) if you want all-in-one coverage.

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LAlearning
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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by LAlearning » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:10 pm

Seeing as Bogle thinks fidelity will be sold in 5 years... Maybe not!
I know nothing!

am
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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by am » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:46 pm

lack_ey wrote:
am wrote:With such low assets, are they still buying stock to match index and therefore more likely to not track the index? I am sticking with the all large cap foreign fund for now since I think the difference in return between the 2 funds will be negligible. Not to mention that the fund has a redemption fee.

The old fund, Fidelity International Index Fund - Premium Class (FSIVX), has the same 1% redemption fee for assets held less than 90 days. It doesn't have emerging markets or small caps, whereas the new fund does.

In any case you can avoid the minor possibility of some early fund teething issues dealing with inflows on the small portfolio by just sticking with the old funds or iShares Core MSCI Total International Stock ETF (IXUS) if you want all-in-one coverage.


FSGDX- global ex us has developed + emerging large cap, similar low ER and much higher assets and history. I do not think that having a little (10% or so) small cap will change returns significantly.

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whodidntante
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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by whodidntante » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:01 pm

I bought 16 grand of FTIPX in late August and I'm planning to use it as my new ex-US core holding in IRAs. It would have been more, but Fidelity has those annoying redemption fees. I'm mostly trusting Fidelity to get this right. If you don't, wait and see.

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whodidntante
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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by whodidntante » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:09 pm

LAlearning wrote:Seeing as Bogle thinks fidelity will be sold in 5 years... Maybe not!


If the banking industry had not been so completely FUBAR'ed during the financial crisis, that might have happened already.

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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by voyager » Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:12 am

am wrote:
lack_ey wrote:
am wrote:With such low assets, are they still buying stock to match index and therefore more likely to not track the index? I am sticking with the all large cap foreign fund for now since I think the difference in return between the 2 funds will be negligible. Not to mention that the fund has a redemption fee.

The old fund, Fidelity International Index Fund - Premium Class (FSIVX), has the same 1% redemption fee for assets held less than 90 days. It doesn't have emerging markets or small caps, whereas the new fund does.

In any case you can avoid the minor possibility of some early fund teething issues dealing with inflows on the small portfolio by just sticking with the old funds or iShares Core MSCI Total International Stock ETF (IXUS) if you want all-in-one coverage.


FSGDX- global ex us has developed + emerging large cap, similar low ER and much higher assets and history. I do not think that having a little (10% or so) small cap will change returns significantly.


Hello, thanks for the replies.

I am a bit concerned about the performance of the Fidelity International Funds compared to VG's. Could you please point out which are the equivalent funds from VG for FSIVX and FSGDX, and how their performance compares ? I am finding it hard to search and compare. Actually, I am seeing some apparently ridiculous stuff. For instance, first I look at the page of FSGDX and see the 1 yr and 3 yr performance. However, when I use the "compare" tool to compare even Fidelity funds (FSGDX and FSIVX), the numbers I see for 1 yr and 3 yr performance are changed (from what they are on their own respective pages). Can someone please confirm and check ? When I put FSGDX on Vanguard website for comparison, lo and behold, I see another different set of numbers for the 1 yr and 3 yr returns. What's the matter ?

voyager
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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by voyager » Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:21 am

voyager wrote:
am wrote:
lack_ey wrote:
am wrote:With such low assets, are they still buying stock to match index and therefore more likely to not track the index? I am sticking with the all large cap foreign fund for now since I think the difference in return between the 2 funds will be negligible. Not to mention that the fund has a redemption fee.

The old fund, Fidelity International Index Fund - Premium Class (FSIVX), has the same 1% redemption fee for assets held less than 90 days. It doesn't have emerging markets or small caps, whereas the new fund does.

In any case you can avoid the minor possibility of some early fund teething issues dealing with inflows on the small portfolio by just sticking with the old funds or iShares Core MSCI Total International Stock ETF (IXUS) if you want all-in-one coverage.


FSGDX- global ex us has developed + emerging large cap, similar low ER and much higher assets and history. I do not think that having a little (10% or so) small cap will change returns significantly.


Hello, thanks for the replies.

I am a bit concerned about the performance of the Fidelity International Funds compared to VG's. Could you please point out which are the equivalent funds from VG for FSIVX and FSGDX, and how their performance compares ? I am finding it hard to search and compare. Actually, I am seeing some apparently ridiculous stuff. For instance, first I look at the page of FSGDX and see the 1 yr and 3 yr performance. However, when I use the "compare" tool to compare even Fidelity funds (FSGDX and FSIVX), the numbers I see for 1 yr and 3 yr performance are changed (from what they are on their own respective pages). Can someone please confirm and check ? When I put FSGDX on Vanguard website for comparison, lo and behold, I see another different set of numbers for the 1 yr and 3 yr returns. What's the matter ?


It seems they keep changing the dates on which the returns have been calculated, which probably explains why the numbers keep fluctuating. What a cruel joke that is.

In any case, could you please confirm and fill in the blanks for the following :
FTIPX ~= VTIAX ? (Total funds, i.e., include emerging markets and small cap, right ?)
FSIVX ~= ? (No emerging market, no small cap, right ?)
FSGDX ~= ? (Yes emerging market, but no small cap, right ?)


As far as performance comparison is concerned, it does look like VTIAX (VGTSX) has been performing better than FSIVX and FSGDX, although it is only based 3 years worth of data.

Name Morningstar
Category YTD #
(Daily) 1 Yr 3 Yr 5 Yr 10 Yr NAV § 12-Month
High 12-Month
Low
Remove Fidelity Fund
Fidelity® Global ex U.S. Index Fund - Premium Class (FSGDX)
Foreign Large Blend
6.88% -5.50% 1.16% -- -- $11.34 $ 12.06 $ 9.35 Buy FSGDX
Remove Fidelity Fund
Fidelity® International Index Fund - Premium Class (FSIVX)
Foreign Large Blend
3.04% -7.47% 1.87% 3.04% 2.08% $36.96 $ 40.61 $ 31.36 Buy FSIVX
Remove
$ Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Investor Shares (VGTSX)
Foreign Large Blend
6.84% -4.44% 1.88% 1.70% 2.22% $15.25 $ 16.15 $ 12.76 Buy VGTSX

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:59 am

voyager wrote:In any case, could you please confirm and fill in the blanks for the following :
FTIPX ~= VTIAX ? (Total funds, i.e., include emerging markets and small cap, right ?)
FSIVX ~= ? (No emerging market, no small cap, right ?)
FSGDX ~= ? (Yes emerging market, but no small cap, right ?)


The three are based on different indexes.

FTIPX -- MSCI ACWI exUS IMI (Investable Market Index) -- the entire international market, includes large/mid/small, developed/emerging.
FSIVX -- MSCI EAFE (Europe/Australasia/Far East) -- large cap with a bit of mid cap (no small), developed markets only
FSGDX -- MSCI ACWI exUS (like FTIPX but no small cap and a little lighter on mid-cap)

VTIAX tracks the FTSE Global All Cap exUS Index, and has what one might call a more "normal" distribution (large/mid/small, developed/emerging). It's closer to FTIPX than it is to the others.
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