Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by *3!4!/5! » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:04 pm

Seems like there's an earlier thread here
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194213

At morningstar.com
http://portfolios.morningstar.com/fund/ ... ture=en_US
it looks like FTIPX Fidelity Total International Index Fund
has only $31M assets and is holding 18% cash! YIKES!

I don't see how they can be tracking the index unless they do it artificially. If you buy this fund now it seems you have to trust Fidelity to ensure low tracking error. Maybe they can do that. (It would be bad PR not to, and maybe they subsidise it while it is ramping up.)

I can get Fidelity, but not Vanguard, at work, so it's good to see funds like this. But with $31M AUM and holding 18% cash, I'm going to wait awhile.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by *3!4!/5! » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:05 pm

At morningstar.com
http://portfolios.morningstar.com/fund/ ... ture=en_US
it looks like FTIPX Fidelity Total International Index Fund
has only $31M assets and is holding 18% cash! YIKES!

I don't see how they can be tracking the index unless they do it artificially. If you buy this fund now it seems you have to trust Fidelity to ensure low tracking error. Maybe they can do that. (It would be bad PR not to, and maybe they subsidise it while it is ramping up.)

I can get Fidelity, but not Vanguard, at work, so it's good to see funds like this. But with $31M AUM and holding 18% cash, I'm going to wait awhile.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by MisterBill » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:16 pm

I still own some FSGDX in my taxable account and on a daily basis, the daily gain/loss between the two is pretty similar, so I don't see the cash percentage being an issue. Perhaps it was just a matter of ramp-up and a snapshot on a given day? I wonder if there is any way to get an answer about this from Fidelity. I am a Premium customer (as are many here, I'm sure) but I wonder if my rep would be able to get an answer.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by mervinj7 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:12 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote:At morningstar.com
http://portfolios.morningstar.com/fund/ ... ture=en_US
it looks like FTIPX Fidelity Total International Index Fund
has only $31M assets and is holding 18% cash! YIKES!

I don't see how they can be tracking the index unless they do it artificially. If you buy this fund now it seems you have to trust Fidelity to ensure low tracking error. Maybe they can do that. (It would be bad PR not to, and maybe they subsidise it while it is ramping up.)

I can get Fidelity, but not Vanguard, at work, so it's good to see funds like this. But with $31M AUM and holding 18% cash, I'm going to wait awhile.


The Fidelity website says this fund holds 3.56% in Cash as of 7/31/2016. No clue why morningstar says 18%. Perhaps because the fund is relatively new and snapshot was taken before new funds were invested? Also, why would you not invest in an index fund that is just two months old with $31M AUM? Is the assumption that funds with less AUM have higher tracking errors?

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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by edge » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:57 pm

I am not exactly sure who would buy Fidelity? The big banks essentially will not get regulator approval for acquisitions for the foreseeable future. So who does that leave that could acquire them?

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:19 pm

I merged voyager's thread into here. The combined thread is now in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum (general investing discussion).
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

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Re: FTIPX-Fidelity ® Total International Index Fund : Okay to buy now ?

Post by harikaried » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:23 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote:it looks like FTIPX Fidelity Total International Index Fund
has only $31M assets and is holding 18% cash! YIKES!
Here's the fund information directly from Fidelity:

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /31635V653
Asset Allocation AS OF 7/31/2016
63.11% Developed Value & Growth
12.95% Developed Small Cap
20.38% Emerging Markets
03.56% Cash & Net Other Assets

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by slayed » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:37 pm

Was not allowed to purchase more than $100k of this fund today in my solo 401k. Is it normal for Fidelity to restrict big purchases or is it just because the fund is still rather new? I could not see anywhere in the prospectus where there is a "maximum investment" or any such language. Something to be aware of I guess if you are moving out of another international fund into this one.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by *3!4!/5! » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:42 pm

slayed wrote:Was not allowed to purchase more than $100k of this fund today in my solo 401k. Is it normal for Fidelity to restrict big purchases or is it just because the fund is still rather new? I could not see anywhere in the prospectus where there is a "maximum investment" or any such language. Something to be aware of I guess if you are moving out of another international fund into this one.
Thanks for the heads up. This fund is supposed to appear in our retirement account Fidelity-only fund lineup eventually, but hasn't yet. I'm happy to wait while the dust is settling on this fund. The numbers on M* are still a bit too weird for me. But I'm glad to see a fund like this, as it's still hard to find good options for int stock funds in employer retirement plans, though it's been getting better.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by MisterBill » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:07 pm

slayed wrote:Was not allowed to purchase more than $100k of this fund today in my solo 401k. Is it normal for Fidelity to restrict big purchases or is it just because the fund is still rather new? I could not see anywhere in the prospectus where there is a "maximum investment" or any such language. Something to be aware of I guess if you are moving out of another international fund into this one.

I had the same problem when I bought FSGUX (the Global ex-US fund) back in January. I just bought the rest in another transaction the following day. I'm not sure if it was related, but it turns out that I had purchased the Investor class rather than what used to be known as the Advantage class (although I had done the same with the US Stock and Bond index funds as well and had no problems). FIdelity automatically converted it to FSGDX a month later. Might that be your issue as well?

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by slayed » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:17 pm

MisterBill wrote:
slayed wrote:Was not allowed to purchase more than $100k of this fund today in my solo 401k. Is it normal for Fidelity to restrict big purchases or is it just because the fund is still rather new? I could not see anywhere in the prospectus where there is a "maximum investment" or any such language. Something to be aware of I guess if you are moving out of another international fund into this one.

I had the same problem when I bought FSGUX (the Global ex-US fund) back in January. I just bought the rest in another transaction the following day. I'm not sure if it was related, but it turns out that I had purchased the Investor class rather than what used to be known as the Advantage class (although I had done the same with the US Stock and Bond index funds as well and had no problems). FIdelity automatically converted it to FSGDX a month later. Might that be your issue as well?


That was my first thought when the Order was being denied but I double checked that the share class was Premium. I just kept lowering the order amount by 10k until it was accepted and it wouldn't go through until it was 100k.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by *3!4!/5! » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:55 pm

On morningstar.com I've been comparing
Fidelity Total International Index Fund Premium Class FTIPX
Vanguard Total Intl Stock Index Admiral VTIAX
on the "chart" tab for different periods (Growth, not Price obviously), to see how closely they track. It seems FTIPX started on 06/07/2016 (MM/DD/YYYY), but from 06/07/2016 to 06/08/2016, $10k in the funds goes to:
FTIPX:10,010.00
VTIAX:10,133.07
so skip that 1st day as it may be a glitch, and it puts FTIPX 1.23% behind forever

06/08/2016 to 10/16/2016 gives
FTIPX:10,050.00
VTIAX:10,087.97
so V beats P by 38bp

3 months 07/17/2016 to 10/16/2016 gives
FTIPX:10,182.37
VTIAX:10,181.76
almost the same

1 month 09/17/2016 to 10/16/2016 gives
FTIPX:10,039.96
VTIAX:10,056.75
so V beats P by 17bp

But are the differences noise or signal?

One more comparison
FTIPX: Total Assets $46.1 mil
VTIAX: Total Assets $226.0 bil
so VTIAX is about FIVE THOUSAND times bigger!


I can get this in a Fidelity 403b, but I'm getting cold feet about using it.

Thoughts?

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by retiredjg » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:13 pm

Well, without reading through the entire thread….do you have other accounts where you can hold the Vanguard fund?

Remember the goal is not to have the best possible pie-in-the-sky portfolio. The goal is to construct a good portfolio by using the best building blocks you have. If this is your best choice, use it.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by *3!4!/5! » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:15 pm

retiredjg wrote:Well, without reading through the entire thread….do you have other accounts where you can hold the Vanguard fund?

Remember the goal is not to have the best possible pie-in-the-sky portfolio. The goal is to construct a good portfolio by using the best building blocks you have. If this is your best choice, use it.

If it were a simple direct choice, I would choose the Vanguard fund over Fidelity without hesitation. (In fact I would go 100% Vanguard funds if I could, and I will when I retire and can move all my retirement accounts to IRAs.) But that's not the choice I have.

My actual situation is that I have employer retirement accounts with limited fund lists, e.g. one account is TIAA, one account is Fidelity, one account has a couple of BlackRock funds, and I have somewhat smaller IRAs with all the Vanguard funds. I have to piece together a portfolio from the available funds in the available space in each location.

What this means in my case it that to buy Fidelity Total International, I need to sell Fidelity Total US Market, but then I need to buy TIAA S&P500, and sell TIAA International Equity (developed=EAFE), but then I need to shuffle other stuff around in various accounts to make sure I have the right amounts of Extended Market and Emerging Market. I would prefer to use "Total" funds for TSM and TISM, but TIAA is my biggest account, and it only has S&P500 and EAFE, and so I have to fill the gaps elsewhere.

In other words, I can simultaneously swap a bunch of funds in my various accounts, for a different bunch of funds, so as to maintain the same asset allocation but hopefully lower expenses and/or track the indicies better.

So I cannot consider FTIPX in isolation. But I do want to understand the fund.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by retiredjg » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:34 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote:If it were a simple direct choice, I would choose the Vanguard fund over Fidelity without hesitation. (In fact I would go 100% Vanguard funds if I could, and I will when I retire and can move all my retirement accounts to IRAs.) But that's not the choice I have.

My actual situation is that I have employer retirement accounts with limited fund lists, e.g. one account is TIAA, one account is Fidelity, one account has a couple of BlackRock funds, and I have somewhat smaller IRAs with all the Vanguard funds. I have to piece together a portfolio from the available funds in the available space in each location.

What this means in my case it that to buy Fidelity Total International, I need to sell Fidelity Total US Market, but then I need to buy TIAA S&P500, and sell TIAA International Equity (developed=EAFE), but then I need to shuffle other stuff around in various accounts to make sure I have the right amounts of Extended Market and Emerging Market. I would prefer to use "Total" funds for TSM and TISM, but TIAA is my biggest account, and it only has S&P500 and EAFE, and so I have to fill the gaps elsewhere.

In other words, I can simultaneously swap a bunch of funds in my various accounts, for a different bunch of funds, so as to maintain the same asset allocation but hopefully lower expenses and/or track the indicies better.

So I cannot consider FTIPX in isolation. But I do want to understand the fund.

Since we have no idea what your accounts actually look like, there is no way to comment on whether the changes mentioned in your post are worthwhile.

FTIPX is a new fund. New funds are small. New funds have growing pains. Fidelity has managed their index funds well and there is no reason to assume they won't continue to do that given the time to get this fund off the ground.

If this new fund makes you nervous, postpone using it for a year or so. Or use it now assuming Fidelity will perform as they usually do. It really is a simple as that.

I can say that most of the portfolio recommendations around here do not have an international allocation in the 401k because having a good low cost fund available there is more unusual than not. So I doubt that you really "need" to use this fund right now. But not having seen your portfolio, that is simply a guess.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by *3!4!/5! » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:20 pm

So, for the purposes of this thread I just want to know what people think as to how well this new fund
Fidelity Total International Index Fund Premium Class FTIPX
can be expected to track its index over time.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by retiredjg » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:39 pm

I expect it to do just fine.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by harikaried » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:40 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote:So, for the purposes of this thread I just want to know what people think as to how well this new fund can be expected to track its index over time.
Perhaps one metric is to look at the fund manager's portfolio/experience:

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /31635V653

Geode Capital Management since 6/7/2016

Funds Currently Managed
FIAM Commodity Strategy Commingled Pool (since 7/30/2010)
FIAM Target Date Russell 1000 Growth Index Fund, LP (since 5/12/2015)
FIAM Target Date Russell 1000 Value Index Fund, LP (since 5/12/2015)
Fidelity SAI Emerging Markets Index Fund (since 1/5/2016)
Fidelity SAI International Index Fund (since 1/5/2016)
Fidelity SAI International Minimum Volatility Index Fund (since 5/29/2015)
Fidelity SAI Small-Mid Cap 500 Index Fund (since 8/12/2015)
Fidelity SAI U.S. Minimum Volatility Index Fund (since 5/29/2015)
Fidelity SAI U.S. Quality Index Fund (since 10/8/2015)
Fidelity® 500 Index Fund - Institutional Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® 500 Index Fund - Institutional Premium Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® 500 Index Fund - Investor Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® Emerging Markets Index Fund - Institutional Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Emerging Markets Index Fund - Institutional Premium Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Emerging Markets Index Fund - Investor Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Emerging Markets Index Fund - Premium Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Extended Market Index Fund - Institutional Premium Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® Extended Market Index Fund - Investor Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® Extended Market Index Fund - Premium Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® Fidelity Series 100 Index Fund (since 3/29/2007)
Fidelity® Global ex U.S. Index Fund - Institutional Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Global ex U.S. Index Fund - Institutional Premium Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Global ex U.S. Index Fund - Investor Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Global ex U.S. Index Fund - Premium Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® International Enhanced Index Fund (since 12/20/2007)
Fidelity® International Index Fund - Institutional Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® International Index Fund - Institutional Premium Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® International Index Fund - Investor Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® International Index Fund - Premium Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® Large Cap Core Enhanced Index Fund (since 4/19/2007)
Fidelity® Large Cap Growth Enhanced Index Fund (since 4/19/2007)
Fidelity® Large Cap Growth Index Fund - Institutional Class (since 6/7/2016)
Fidelity® Large Cap Growth Index Fund - Institutional Premium Class (since 6/7/2016)
Fidelity® Large Cap Growth Index Fund - Investor Class (since 6/7/2016)
Fidelity® Large Cap Growth Index Fund - Premium Class (since 6/7/2016)
Fidelity® Large Cap Value Enhanced Index Fund (since 4/19/2007)
Fidelity® Large Cap Value Index Fund - Institutional Class (since 6/7/2016)
Fidelity® Large Cap Value Index Fund - Institutional Premium Class (since 6/7/2016)
Fidelity® Large Cap Value Index Fund - Investor Class (since 6/7/2016)
Fidelity® Large Cap Value Index Fund - Premium Class (since 6/7/2016)
Fidelity® Mid Cap Enhanced Index Fund (since 12/20/2007)
Fidelity® Mid Cap Index Fund - Institutional Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Mid Cap Index Fund - Institutional Premium Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Mid Cap Index Fund - Investor Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Mid Cap Index Fund - Premium Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Nasdaq® Composite Index Fund (since 9/25/2003)
Fidelity® Real Estate Index Fund - Institutional Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Real Estate Index Fund - Investor Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Real Estate Index Fund - Premium Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Series 100 Index Fund - Class F (since 3/29/2007)
Fidelity® Series 1000 Value Index Fund (since 11/7/2013)
Fidelity® Series 1000 Value Index Fund - Class F (since 11/7/2013)
Fidelity® Series Commodity Strategy Fund (since 10/1/2009)
Fidelity® Series Commodity Strategy Fund - Class F (since 10/1/2009)
Fidelity® Series Global Ex U.S. Index Fund (since 9/29/2009)
Fidelity® Small Cap Enhanced Index Fund (since 12/20/2007)
Fidelity® Small Cap Index Fund - Institutional Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Small Cap Index Fund - Institutional Premium Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Small Cap Index Fund - Investor Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Small Cap Index Fund - Premium Class (since 9/8/2011)
Fidelity® Total International Index Fund - Institutional Class (since 6/7/2016)
Fidelity® Total International Index Fund - Institutional Premium Class (since 6/7/2016)
Fidelity® Total International Index Fund - Investor Class (since 6/7/2016)
Fidelity® Total International Index Fund - Premium Class (since 6/7/2016)
Fidelity® Total Market Index Fund - Class F (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® Total Market Index Fund - Institutional Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® Total Market Index Fund - Institutional Premium Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® Total Market Index Fund - Investor Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® Total Market Index Fund - Premium Class (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® U.S. Equity Index Commingled Pool Class 1 (since 8/4/2003)
Fidelity® U.S. Equity Index Commingled Pool Class 3 (since 7/29/2011)
Nasdaq Comp Ind Trck Stk (since 9/25/2003)
VIP Disciplined Small Cap Portfolio - Initial Class (since 12/27/2005)
VIP Disciplined Small Cap Portfolio - Investor Class (since 12/27/2005)
VIP Disciplined Small Cap Portfolio - Service Class (since 12/27/2005)
VIP Disciplined Small Cap Portfolio - Service Class 2 (since 12/27/2005)
VIP Index 500 Portfolio - Initial Class (since 8/4/2003)
VIP Index 500 Portfolio - Service Class (since 8/4/2003)
VIP Index 500 Portfolio - Service Class 2 (since 8/4/2003)

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by *3!4!/5! » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:21 pm

harikaried wrote:Perhaps one metric is to look at the fund manager's portfolio/experience:
https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /31635V653
Geode Capital Management since 6/7/2016

Interesting. I hadn't paid attention to that and hadn't heard of Geode.
It looks like Fidelity actually farms out the management of several index funds to Geode and BlackRock. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing. One thing is that Geode would manage a larger pool of funds than just this one tiny fund, so I don't know if that could help keep the fund on track, e.g. if they already own the stocks and they move them into the fund as people buy into it.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by Shredder » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:20 am

WJW wrote:Thanks for the info, I exchanged FSGDX for FTIPX.

+1; glad this got bumped.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by MisterBill » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:27 pm

So, we're almost a year (10 months, to be exact) into the life of this fund. It appears that it is slightly lagging FSGDX. I just got a distribution from an estate and was going to rebalance the account at the same time. I'm wondering if I should put it into FSGDX or FTIPIX. I have some of each since when I got a prior distribution, I put some into FTIPX but never sold the FSGDX since it was still a short term gain (I did switch my taxable accounts).

What do others think? What are you doing?

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by harikaried » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:17 pm

Both Total International index funds from Fidelity (FTIPX) and Vanguard (VTIAX) appear to be slightly lagging FSGDX (ex-US large), which makes sense as VSS (ex-US small) is more significantly lagging. If your decision is to include more international small cap, then FTIPX/VTIAX are easy ways to get there. If you don't want small caps, then FSGDX is reasonable.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by *3!4!/5! » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:23 pm

MisterBill wrote:So, we're almost a year (10 months, to be exact) into the life of this fund. It appears that it is slightly lagging FSGDX. I just got a distribution from an estate and was going to rebalance the account at the same time. I'm wondering if I should put it into FSGDX or FTIPX. I have some of each since when I got a prior distribution, I put some into FTIPX but never sold the FSGDX since it was still a short term gain (I did switch my taxable accounts).

What do others think? What are you doing?
They're different indexes (large-cap vs all-cap). I think FTIPX is better compared to VTIAX.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by financeisfun » Fri May 05, 2017 4:29 pm

harikaried wrote:Both Total International index funds from Fidelity (FTIPX) and Vanguard (VTIAX) appear to be slightly lagging FSGDX (ex-US large), which makes sense as VSS (ex-US small) is more significantly lagging. If your decision is to include more international small cap, then FTIPX/VTIAX are easy ways to get there. If you don't want small caps, then FSGDX is reasonable.
The FTIPX vs. FSGDX decision is something I'm vacillating on, especially since everyone here seems to be so excited about FTIPX, whereas I think I would feel more comfortable without the international small caps component (but, I also do believe that it helps diversification).

I do wonder if international small caps would perform better with an actively-managed fund rather than an index fund. For instance, FISMX (Fidelity International Small Cap Fund) seems to have been outperforming FSGDX/the MSCI ACWI Ex USA index since 2002, but its expense ratio is 1.34%.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by wzzg1j » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:19 pm

Something to be aware of, FTIPX has a $100,00 maximum. You cannot hold more than that in a single account. This is not listed in the prospectus.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by *3!4!/5! » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:05 pm

wzzg1j wrote:Something to be aware of, FTIPX has a $100,00 maximum. You cannot hold more than that in a single account. This is not listed in the prospectus.
Is that a maximum to purchase (or exchange) at once, or is it a maximum to hold. There was some discussion earlier in the thread, so I wonder what the final conclusion was.
viewtopic.php?p=3066238#p3066238

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by wzzg1j » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:12 pm

It is a maximum to hold. The person I spoke with initially thought it was per order, but he checked with a specialist and was told it was a maximum to hold. So now I am wondering if I should supplement with FSIVX-Fidelity® International Index Fund - Premium Class or FSGDX-Fidelity® Global ex U.S. Index Fund - Premium Class. I recently rolled over my 401K into a Fidelity IRA and was hoping for a simple 3-fund portfolio, but the asset allocation I want does not fit within those parameters if using only FTIPX for my international.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by triceratop » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:26 pm

wzzg1j wrote:It is a maximum to hold. The person I spoke with initially thought it was per order, but he checked with a specialist and was told it was a maximum to hold. So now I am wondering if I should supplement with FSIVX-Fidelity® International Index Fund - Premium Class or FSGDX-Fidelity® Global ex U.S. Index Fund - Premium Class. I recently rolled over my 401K into a Fidelity IRA and was hoping for a simple 3-fund portfolio, but the asset allocation I want does not fit within those parameters if using only FTIPX for my international.
I would say that's a reason to immediately prefer FSGDX or VTIAX, especially in a taxable account where the last thing you want is to have to pare down a position after substantial gains.

Did the specialist specify what the action would be if investment growth pushed the fund over $100k?
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by retiredjg » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:55 pm

wzzg1j wrote:Something to be aware of, FTIPX has a $100,00 maximum. You cannot hold more than that in a single account. This is not listed in the prospectus.
I think there is a misunderstanding here.

The fund comes in two asset classes - Investor shares and Premium shares. The only difference is the expense ratio. The more you have, the lower your expenses.

FTIGX is Fidelity Total International Index Investor shares has a minimum of $2,500. FTIPX is the same fund - but Premium shares.

When the amount you have invested in that fund gets above $10,000 you get moved to Premium shares and get the lower expense ratio.

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TD2626
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by TD2626 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:04 pm

It would be good if someone can confirm the suggestions of a $100k maximum. Maybe it's just an investor shares maximum - and not the premium shares maximum? Surely institutional investors would use this fund?

Does anyone here have more than $100k in FTIPX?

MisterBill
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by MisterBill » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:14 pm

wzzg1j wrote:It is a maximum to hold. The person I spoke with initially thought it was per order, but he checked with a specialist and was told it was a maximum to hold. So now I am wondering if I should supplement with FSIVX-Fidelity® International Index Fund - Premium Class or FSGDX-Fidelity® Global ex U.S. Index Fund - Premium Class.
That's wrong. I have more than $100k of FTIPX in my account. It may be that you cannot buy more than $100k at a time, I had that problem with FSGDX and never figured out why. I just placed a second order to buy the rest (I see from my account history that I did it the next day, I forget if that was required. Perhaps FTIPX works the same way. But anyone who is telling you that you cannot hold more than $100k of FTIPX simply has no idea what they are talking about and I can't believe there's been so much discussion about it here. In your case, you could certainly buy FSGDX as well, since they are very similar (and was the recommended fund before FTIPX was created).
TD2626 wrote: Does anyone here have more than $100k in FTIPX?
Yes :happy .

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by *3!4!/5! » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:16 pm

MisterBill wrote:
wzzg1j wrote:It is a maximum to hold. The person I spoke with initially thought it was per order, but he checked with a specialist and was told it was a maximum to hold. So now I am wondering if I should supplement with FSIVX-Fidelity® International Index Fund - Premium Class or FSGDX-Fidelity® Global ex U.S. Index Fund - Premium Class.
That's wrong. I have more than $100k of FTIPX in my account. It may be that you cannot buy more than $100k at a time, I had that problem with FSGDX and never figured out why. I just placed a second order to buy the rest (I see from my account history that I did it the next day, I forget if that was required. Perhaps FTIPX works the same way. But anyone who is telling you that you cannot hold more than $100k of FTIPX simply has no idea what they are talking about and I can't believe there's been so much discussion about it here. In your case, you could certainly buy FSGDX as well, since they are very similar (and was the recommended fund before FTIPX was created).
TD2626 wrote: Does anyone here have more than $100k in FTIPX?
Yes :happy .
It's definitely worth discussing. It's pretty important to know what transactions can be made, and which will be stopped (especially if you are making exchanges in multiple accounts, and need all exchanges to execute to maintain asset allocation). We know that the $100k figure has some significance because a couple of people in this thread (including you) stated that you were blocked from purchasing more than that. So there are questions. Is there still a restriction? Are exchanges treated the same as new purchases? You've confirmed that you can hold more than that $100k figure. (How did you get there, by the way? Purchases? Exchanges? (Over or under $100k per transaction?) Or was it market growth?)

I'd certainly be interested in any datapoints people have about any restrictions on this fund, FTIPX.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by MisterBill » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:36 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote: It's definitely worth discussing. It's pretty important to know what transactions can be made, and which will be stopped (especially if you are making exchanges in multiple accounts, and need all exchanges to execute to maintain asset allocation). We know that the $100k figure has some significance because a couple of people in this thread (including you) stated that you were blocked from purchasing more than that. So there are questions. Is there still a restriction? Are exchanges treated the same as new purchases? You've confirmed that you can hold more than that $100k figure. (How did you get there, by the way? Purchases? Exchanges? (Over or under $100k per transaction?) Or was it market growth?)

I'd certainly be interested in any datapoints people have about any restrictions on this fund, FTIPX.
I was blocked from buying more than $100k of FSGDX at one time. I bought more a couple of days later. I didn't try buying over $100k of FTIPX at one time but bought (not exchanged) > $100k across two separate transactions several months apart.

So there is definitely not a problem buying and holding more than $100k of either in an account. More than $100k in one transaction, yes. But that's not what recent posters were claiming to have been told.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by keanoz » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:51 am

MisterBill wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote: It's definitely worth discussing. It's pretty important to know what transactions can be made, and which will be stopped (especially if you are making exchanges in multiple accounts, and need all exchanges to execute to maintain asset allocation). We know that the $100k figure has some significance because a couple of people in this thread (including you) stated that you were blocked from purchasing more than that. So there are questions. Is there still a restriction? Are exchanges treated the same as new purchases? You've confirmed that you can hold more than that $100k figure. (How did you get there, by the way? Purchases? Exchanges? (Over or under $100k per transaction?) Or was it market growth?)

I'd certainly be interested in any datapoints people have about any restrictions on this fund, FTIPX.
I was blocked from buying more than $100k of FSGDX at one time. I bought more a couple of days later. I didn't try buying over $100k of FTIPX at one time but bought (not exchanged) > $100k across two separate transactions several months apart.

So there is definitely not a problem buying and holding more than $100k of either in an account. More than $100k in one transaction, yes. But that's not what recent posters were claiming to have been told.
I was also block from buying one order over 100k, but buying two orders (even one the same say) was fine

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by JonnyDVM » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:28 am

I'm waiting to switch to FTIPX until I can use It to tax loss harvest. Returns to FSGDX have looked more or less identical. I've been using VSS as a complement to FSGDX to tilt towards international small cap. I'd say it's been working well for me, but then again the performance of VSS would beg to differ.
Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple. -Dr. Seuss

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by busdriver » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:09 pm

When I tried to switched both my IRA and 401K accounts from FSGDX to FTIPX, the website wouldn't allow it, ($150k & $300k intl. in each acct.). I made a call to Fidelity Premium Services and asked why I couldn't and was told there is a 100k limit which applies to both buy and sell orders of both funds, (this may be a limit for other funds as well). The service representative then made a call to the trading department to get special authorization for the trades. It was all approved and executed over the phone. Trade was made the next day. So there is a $100k circuit breaker, so to speak for on-line trades, but there is a way around it if you call during trading hours. :sharebeer

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by wzzg1j » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:13 pm

Even my local Fidelity rep told me that it was a max to hold, but based on what others said, I decided to give it a try. I just placed two separate orders for FTIPX. Combined they are over $100K. The website did not block me from placing them, but I will let you know if they both go through successfully.

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tuningfork
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by tuningfork » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:59 pm

I too bought more than $100K in FTIPX earlier this year. The web interface wouldn't let me buy more than $100K at once so I did it in two transactions, each less than $100K.

If it were max $100K to hold, what would happen when it grows above $100K?

MisterBill
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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by MisterBill » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:28 pm

tuningfork wrote:If it were max $100K to hold, what would happen when it grows above $100K?
Agreed, it makes no sense that they would be a limit to what you can hold. But it makes you wonder why the transaction amount limit. Maybe some regulation on the amount of foreign stock you can purchase in one transaction? Is there such a thing? I wonder if all Fidelity foreign stock funds have the same restriction (we already know that FSGDX and FTIPX do)?

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by S17C » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:11 pm

MisterBill wrote:I have more than $100k of FTIPX in my account.
keanoz wrote:I was also block from buying one order over 100k, but buying two orders (even one the same say) was fine
busdriver wrote:($150k & $300k intl. in each acct.)
wzzg1j wrote:I just placed two separate orders for FTIPX. Combined they are over $100K.
tuningfork wrote:I too bought more than $100K in FTIPX earlier this year.
I have a question especially for six-digit investors of FTIPX like y'all. What amount are you guesstimating per share for FTIPX's 2017 dividends?

In December 2016, FTIPX paid out dividends of about 3.7 cents per share. On the other hand, another Fidelity international fund (FSGDX) with a similar NAV paid about 21.8 cents per share in December dividends. Large potential range. I'm saving for FTIPX dividend taxes based on 25 cents per share, just in case. (Dividends set to automatically reinvest).

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by *3!4!/5! » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:20 pm

S17C wrote:I have a question especially for six-digit investors of FTIPX like y'all. What are you guesstimating for FTIPX's 2017 dividends?

In December 2016, FTIPX paid out dividends of about 3.7 cents per share. On the other hand, another Fidelity international fund (FSGDX) with a similar NAV paid about 21.8 cents per share in December dividends. Large potential range. I'm saving for FTIPX dividend taxes based on about 25 cents per share, just in case. (Dividends set to automatically reinvest).
I don't know the answer, but I think the phenomenon is due to rapidly increasing in size (and being zero size for the 1st half of the year), so the lower dividends will continue until it's size starts to plateau.

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Re: Switching to Fidelity's new Total International Index (includes small cap!)

Post by baw703916 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:03 pm

I just decided to check how the Fidelity fund has been performing compared to Vanguard's Total International. Over the last 6 and 12 months, the two are extremely similar. One wouldn't expect them to be identical as they track different indices. While Vanguard's fund has generally done better, you can make either fund look better by cherry-picking dates, which makes me think there's not much difference.

YTD (2017)
FTIPX +19.20%
VTIAX +19.39%

It does appear, fortunately, that the lag in FTIPX since inception was due to start-up cash drag, and that it's a perfectly good choice for a 3-fund portfolio.
Most of my posts assume no behavioral errors.

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