International stocks in free fall

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saltycaper
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International stocks in free fall

Post by saltycaper » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:11 am

Several European stock indexes as well as Japan's Nikkei are down 8-10%.

For US investors, increases in USD against most but not all currencies will compound losses.

This is a historic day, no matter the market close.

Who is buying? Who is selling? Who is standing still? Who is violating their IPS through action or inaction?
"I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said." --Alan Greenspan

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in_reality
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by in_reality » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:30 am

Sold 10K of a currency that jumped on the news, and will put it into international stocks when the wire comes through. Nothing much really ...

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celia
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by celia » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:41 am

I am! (violating my IPS by inaction) :sharebeer
A dollar in Roth is worth more than a dollar in a taxable account. A dollar in taxable is worth more than a dollar in a tax-deferred account.

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PeteyDink
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by PeteyDink » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:44 am

Sounds like a great time to invest! :beer

AlohaJoe
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by AlohaJoe » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:44 am

saltycaper wrote:Who is buying? Who is selling? Who is standing still? Who is violating their IPS through action or inaction?


I sold all my European and Pacific ETFs yesterday and have it still sitting in cash.

It was actually unrelated to Brexit but right now I'm looking like a genius. I should start a newsletter......

jjface
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by jjface » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:48 am

Ftse 100 (uk) is back over 6000 already.

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VirtualCuriosity
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by VirtualCuriosity » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:49 am

We aren't changing a thing, no reason to. Auto deposit from my check will occur today and then every two weeks afterward. Auto deposit from my wife's check will occur next week and every two weeks afterward. So, we are always buying no matter what, sometimes in the peaks, sometimes in the valleys. I am ecstatic it's Friday too. Haven't had a weekend off in over a month until now.

I will also check in later to read the many usual stories of people that were just about to buy in with a zillion dollars yesterday, but figured they'd wait until today because they had a hunch and it paid off......... Some people will feel they had a small win and some will feel they had a small loss. Many people will panic and sell and then say they stood pat. But, hopefully everyone has a great weekend regardless.

Edited so to not leave out the ones that pretend out loud that they sold yesterday by some unrelated coincidence and have it ready to buy back in today :wink: .

:beer
Last edited by VirtualCuriosity on Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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oldzey
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by oldzey » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:53 am

"The broker said the stock was 'poised to move.' Silly me, I thought he meant up." ― Randy Thurman

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stemikger
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by stemikger » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:01 am

I might rebalance, but other than that, not much.

I'm glad I listened to Jack all these years ago. I never invested in international and this won't change things.
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!

denovo
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by denovo » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:10 am

Stocks are on sale!

Valuethinker
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Valuethinker » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:55 am

I would do *nothing* if I was you.

There's no way of knowing where this will bottom. My guess is the market will overreact (Sterling, Euro and equity markets).

But, who knows?

If you are investing periodically keep investing periodically.

If you rebalance, rebalance when your IPS tells you to rebalance.

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Rainier
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Rainier » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:04 am

denovo wrote:Stocks are on sale!


Today maybe, but for the week most are flat
- Bill

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Rick Ferri
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Rick Ferri » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:34 am

United we stand and divided we fall.
The views expressed by Rick Ferri are strictly his own as a private investor and author and do not reflect the views of any entity or other persons.

munemaker
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by munemaker » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:39 am

Ignore the noise.

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Rainier
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Rainier » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:45 am

munemaker wrote:Ignore the noise.


Are you suggesting that buying at inflated prices is better?

Do you insist on paying full price for goods or do you prefer sales?
- Bill

ReadytoLearn
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by ReadytoLearn » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:49 am

Decision time....with the decision on Brexit, I assume VTIAX will be hammered today, and there will be an opportunity to buy. I am 75% VTSAX and 25% VTIAX with my stock holdings. Those plus cash, is all I hold. I have a ton of cash on hand, but I didn't want to grow my international holdings.

As a buy and hold kind of guy, I have no idea about stuff like this:
http://www.cnbc.com/pre-markets/

I'd much rather buy VTSAX from here on out.

Thoughts? (Yes this is market timing, yes I hate it, but the cash had been piling up from company stock sales recently.)

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by oldcomputerguy » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:22 am

saltycaper wrote:Several European stock indexes as well as Japan's Nikkei are down 8-10%.

For US investors, increases in USD against most but not all currencies will compound losses.

This is a historic day, no matter the market close.

Who is buying? Who is selling? Who is standing still? Who is violating their IPS through action or inaction?


My IPS says 70/30 domestic/international, that won't change. About the only thing I do anticipate is that come July it'll be the normal time to look at rebalancing, on that front I may end up taking some action (although I confess I am looking forward to the prospect of possibly buying stocks on sale).
Anybody know why there's a 20-pound frozen turkey up in the light grid?

golfallday
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by golfallday » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:24 am

I'm buying VXUS today and in the following weeks when panic selling occurs. I'm not trading it...I'll hold it forever in my taxable account.

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JonnyDVM
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by JonnyDVM » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:39 am

Sold a good chunk of stuff Monday by pure dumb luck as we needed extra money for a house down payment.

I'm an expert market timer. 8-)

Unfortunately the powder keg is empty. Can't do any more buying for a few months. Otherwise I would be excited about the ability to buy on sale.

I do feel bad for the citizens of the U.K. though. Sounds (to this Amercian) like common sense did not prevail. I thought the US was the only place with crazy politics right now.
Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple. -Dr. Seuss

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TSquare
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by TSquare » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:59 am

I'm going to work.

Levett
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Levett » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:26 am

A colleague sent me a note that the Brits had taken idiosyncrasy a step too far. :wink:

Lev

lostdog
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by lostdog » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:34 am

stemikger wrote:I might rebalance, but other than that, not much.

I'm glad I listened to Jack all these years ago. I never invested in international and this won't change things.


+1

Staying the course on my Jack Bogle 2 fund portfolio. If I hit my 5% band I'll rebalance.
Last edited by lostdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lazydavid
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by lazydavid » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:35 am

Today is payday, which means 401k contribution day. And since my current contributions are 90% international stock (rebalancing my AA through contributions only), that should buy me a decent number of shares after today's bloodbath. :mrgreen:

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Toons
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Toons » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:38 am

What?
Me Worry"
Life is Short.
Make Sure You Laugh A Lot
Today :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

kd2008
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by kd2008 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:42 am

Rotated from VTIAX to VFWAX in Jan to book losses. I rotated back in VTIAX last week and bought another 10K. :oops:

I am thinking of buying some more, but oh boy, those unrealized short term losses are going to sting for a while. I can't sell until mid August to keep my dividends qualified.

Johnnie
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Johnnie » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:29 am

stemikger wrote:I might rebalance, but other than that, not much.

I'm glad I listened to Jack all these years ago. I never invested in international and this won't change things.


-1

Don't confuse weather with climate. This is a rainstorm. Not even St. Jack can predict the future.

I'm happy, because I've been DCA'ing into some foreign indexes/etfs as part of a one-year transition from no plan to Merriman's Ultimate slice and dice, and my next tranche is scheduled for next week!
"I know nothing."

Sidney
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Sidney » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:34 am

This is a time to closely monitor unrealized gains and losses. Tax loss harvesting opportunities pop at times like this. Don't miss them.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.

Lafder
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Lafder » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:47 am

I am confused, my FSGDX (Fidelity Ex US stock Index) was nicely up when I checked the balance last night. So I was surprised to see these comments. It is too early to know how the prices will be by end of day today yet. SO somehow you all are talking about International stocks being down, but mine appear to be up in the time period you are discussing.
lafder

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zaboomafoozarg
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:50 am

Rick Ferri wrote:United we stand and divided we fall.


Most people want to be divided, it seems. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens throughout the EU over time.

imabeliever
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by imabeliever » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:54 am

Lafder wrote:I am confused, my FSGDX (Fidelity Ex US stock Index) was nicely up when I checked the balance last night. So I was surprised to see these comments. It is too early to know how the prices will be by end of day today yet. SO somehow you all are talking about International stocks being down, but mine appear to be up in the time period you are discussing.
lafder


if you feel so inclined, check again tonight after market closes... however, i *really* recommend you don't ...
yes you can do this!

Ari
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Ari » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:06 am

I'm buying, but that's just because Monday is payday. I am, of course, happy about the timing, though, as I'll likely get cheap stocks.
All in, all the time.

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SquawkIdent
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by SquawkIdent » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:10 am

Really? The sun is still out and the golf course is calling me. :sharebeer

rgs92
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by rgs92 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:12 am

It's funny, but even though this is Bogleheads, some number of people here immediately turn away from Mr. Bogle's advice that at a time like this: don't do something, stand there. I'm sure he'll do an interview or two today and say this (and the young interviewer will be surprised).

jjface
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by jjface » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:18 am

Funny to read so many Americans think it is a bad idea to split off from a larger power... 4th July round the corner and all.

The UK will be better for it ... not so sure what will happen to Europe. Europe needs the UK more then the UK needs Europe. We'll see.

I imagine that once negotiations are finalized everything will look pretty much the same with trade and the markets will be back to "normal"
Last edited by jjface on Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:31 am, edited 3 times in total.

simmias
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by simmias » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:20 am

jjface wrote:Funny to read so many Americans think it is a bad idea to split off from a larger power... 4th July round the corner and all.

Britain had no representation in the EU?

jjface
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by jjface » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:21 am

simmias wrote:
jjface wrote:Funny to read so many Americans think it is a bad idea to split off from a larger power... 4th July round the corner and all.

Britain had no representation in the EU?


I'm not saying it is an identical situation. They certainly have less representation than full control and less representation than they wanted. No tea involved either though cross border immigration has been an issue.
Last edited by jjface on Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by oldcomputerguy » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:24 am

Lafder wrote:I am confused, my FSGDX (Fidelity Ex US stock Index) was nicely up when I checked the balance last night. So I was surprised to see these comments. It is too early to know how the prices will be by end of day today yet. SO somehow you all are talking about International stocks being down, but mine appear to be up in the time period you are discussing.
lafder


The comments here are based on reports from the individual markets, which are currently open. The price you're seeing right now on FSGDX is yesterday's close, which was well before the Brexit vote results became known. Any price change in FSGDX resulting from the Brexit vote won't appear until well after the US market closes this afternoon.
Anybody know why there's a 20-pound frozen turkey up in the light grid?

jjface
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by jjface » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:29 am

vxus is down 6.7% pre market. Still a long way from the lows of the year. I didn't buy earlier this month at these prices and don't plan to today.

jkirkmd
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by jkirkmd » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:35 am

I'm just glad I "sold in May, and went away" (actually, I just only increased my fixed income %, per my rebalance schedule). Looks like that 54% fixed income percentage will be increasing a lot today! But not likely to exceed the 5% rebalance threshhold. I'm not saying it's such a good thing that the equity markets are tanking today...I'm just pleased with my current AA and risk profile, so I feel comfortable today with my long term investments.

S&L1940
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by S&L1940 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:38 am

celia wrote:I am! (violating my IPS by inaction) :sharebeer

yep, need time to let things shake out - could be a long bumpy ride
Don't it always seem to go * That you don't know what you've got * Till it's gone

slbnoob
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by slbnoob » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:28 am

lazydavid wrote:Today is payday, which means 401k contribution day. And since my current contributions are 90% international stock (rebalancing my AA through contributions only), that should buy me a decent number of shares after today's bloodbath. :mrgreen:

For me even though today is payday, 401k contribution happens only on the next Thursday when the shares are bought. Ofcourse they are priced for the day they are bought, and not for payday. Check if yours is indeed bought on payday and not a few days later.

Rysto
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Rysto » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:29 am


What? You think that the US is immune to political risk? Okay.

I wonder how Britons who don't invest overseas are feeling today.

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Bustoff
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Bustoff » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:48 am

You think the big banks levered up prior to the Brexit vote. You know they did. I cant stop giggling.

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vitaflo
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by vitaflo » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:52 am

Rainier wrote:
munemaker wrote:Ignore the noise.


Are you suggesting that buying at inflated prices is better?

Do you insist on paying full price for goods or do you prefer sales?


Do you expect the markets to have a long term trend upwards? Are you a buy and hold investor? Then you're always buying on sale.

Madd Hatter
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Madd Hatter » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:19 am

kd2008 wrote:Rotated from VTIAX to VFWAX in Jan to book losses. I rotated back in VTIAX last week and bought another 10K. :oops:

I am thinking of buying some more, but oh boy, those unrealized short term losses are going to sting for a while. I can't sell until mid August to keep my dividends qualified.


Made the same move but in 2015, so on the lookout to harvest another 1-3k for 2016. But as of 11:15am EST things seemed to have leveled off, the drop may not be big enough (my VFWAX has been about flat).

If I did sell I'd look to buy Intl back in my 401k - am I right to assume Total Bond will see a small NAV bump today?

avalpert
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by avalpert » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:25 am

Rainier wrote:
munemaker wrote:Ignore the noise.


Are you suggesting that buying at inflated prices is better?

Do you insist on paying full price for goods or do you prefer sales?

The stock price on the open market is always full price. It wasn't inflated yesterday and it is not on sale today - it is just the nature of investing in risky assets based on an unknown future.

protagonist
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by protagonist » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:27 am

avalpert wrote:
Rainier wrote:
munemaker wrote:Ignore the noise.


Are you suggesting that buying at inflated prices is better?

Do you insist on paying full price for goods or do you prefer sales?

The stock price on the open market is always full price. It wasn't inflated yesterday and it is not on sale today - it is just the nature of investing in risky assets based on an unknown future.


+1

n00b
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by n00b » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:31 am

I got caught in the crossfire whilst moving a significant portion of my domestic stock and all of my international stock to an account with slightly lower expenses. (Totally unaware of Brexit. I would have avoided moving during this time if I had known.)

My exit from the market landed on a low day and Mr. Market surged a bit while I was out for the transfer. I would have gladly bought back in at my exit price but didn't want to take my lumps so I set up some ETF limit-orders and hoped that volatility could get me back in at my exit price. That happened pretty quick on my international stocks but I had to wait a bit for my domestic order to execute. I got lucky with my domestic order this morning because the market opened a bit below my limit-order so I accidentally got a deal!

MnD
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by MnD » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:38 am

June 2016 is my 30th year anniversary of buying stocks and bonds each and every month and/or every two weeks.
I guess I'll be buying a few more shares of both US and international equity per the set dollar purchase if this little decline persists. :happy
I'll check rebalancing bands as always, but don't forsee any triggers in that area, especially since I market cap weight global equities and just rebalance between global equity % and fixed income % if bands are exceeded.

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Steadfast
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Re: International stocks in free fall

Post by Steadfast » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:52 am

I'm buying.

Good luck.
We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are.

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