What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

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Dave55
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Dave55 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:30 am

No 401K, but a few IRA and Taxable overall is .08

Dave

Lathund
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Lathund » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:18 am

qwertyjazz wrote:Ari
How does a fund have a zero ER? Is there any payment issue that acts like an ER?
Thank you
QJ
A very late reply, but better than nothing I guess!

There's genuinely zero cost passed along to the customer, no fees of any kind. The fund is only available on their own platform though, so it's a marketing tool, hoping to attract customers who will also buy other funds, stock, take loans, start pension plans etc with them. This particular fund follows a rather narrow index, OMX30 (Our Dow Jones equivalent I suppose, tracking just 30 companies). Another broker, Nordnet, offers zero ER funds for the Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and Finnish markets that are a bit broader. IIRC one of the traditional banks here also has a free Euroland index fund.

Hukedonfonix4me
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Hukedonfonix4me » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:31 am

.08 total ER
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qwertyjazz
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by qwertyjazz » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:18 pm

Lathund wrote:
qwertyjazz wrote:Ari
How does a fund have a zero ER? Is there any payment issue that acts like an ER?
Thank you
QJ
A very late reply, but better than nothing I guess!

There's genuinely zero cost passed along to the customer, no fees of any kind. The fund is only available on their own platform though, so it's a marketing tool, hoping to attract customers who will also buy other funds, stock, take loans, start pension plans etc with them. This particular fund follows a rather narrow index, OMX30 (Our Dow Jones equivalent I suppose, tracking just 30 companies). Another broker, Nordnet, offers zero ER funds for the Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and Finnish markets that are a bit broader. IIRC one of the traditional banks here also has a free Euroland index fund.
Thank you
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Malinois000
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Malinois000 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:50 pm

0% as the expense is covered completely by employer (insurance company) and considered a company benefit

Ashley1748
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Ashley1748 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:00 pm

0.10%

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oldzey
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by oldzey » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:50 pm

0.05% ER overall across 403b, Roth, and Taxable accounts.
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5th_Dimension
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by 5th_Dimension » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:27 am

.059 for my 3 fund portfolio.
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Caligal
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Caligal » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:25 am

.08 thank you Bogleheads!

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packet
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by packet » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:45 am

packet wrote:
packet wrote:0.1014
My ER is slowly drifting up towards 0.16 due to the S&P 500 fund in my 403b. It would be 0.0847 today and drifting downward, if not for my 403... :/
0.1036%
As promised, drifting up ...
W00T!

Our 403b fund is switching out of the S&P 500 fund for VINIX (Vanguard Institutional Index Fund Institutional Shares) with an ER of .04!

My new weighted ER will be 0.0845 ... happy camper I am ... :)

Of course, it's not really that big of a difference... but it still makes me happy.

:beerCheers,
packet
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topper1296
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by topper1296 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:29 am

I just did a rebalance and went from .19 to .15 with my lowest holding at .04 and my highest at .59 (have 5% in an Int'l REIT index ETF)

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cookymonster
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by cookymonster » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:38 am

0.071

Theoretical
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Theoretical » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:56 am

Funds only - (3/4 of portfolio) - .4 (very expensive 401k and a small slug of managed futures). Heavy tilts.

With CDs and individual bonds - .3

gkaplan
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by gkaplan » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:58 am

Right now, it's 0.106%.
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chuckb84
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by chuckb84 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:47 am

Weighted averaging the TSP and TIAA I get an overall .0514%.

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midareff
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by midareff » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:49 am

.15 !

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Portfolio7
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Portfolio7 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:58 am

I'm at about 37 basis points now on a slice and dice portfolio, which is slightly higher than the e/r for my stable value fund (fixed income), and also near the average of my dfa and vanguard mix of equities. Plan fees are a couple basis points, and included in that total.

If I went from Stable Value to Total Bond fund I could get that near 25 bpts

If I went to a three fund portfolio I could get it down to around 7 basis points including plan fees, saving me a few thousand dollars per year.
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bloom2708
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by bloom2708 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:01 pm

.07 at Vanguard. Total US Bond Admiral dropped to .05. (Marjority of $ here)

.08 at Fidelity 401k

No complaints.
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niners9088
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by niners9088 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:22 pm

.039% on my aggressive slice and dice. Mega Corp 401k with extremely low ERs helps. :D

NiceUnparticularMan
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by NiceUnparticularMan » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:48 pm

No idea. I try to be smart about it, but don't track it (I track almost no portfolio-level statistics--I find it helps keep me disciplined--aside from what I need to know for my annual rebalancing, which includes a snapshat of the current portfolio value).

Jack FFR1846
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:02 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:0.050. My 401k is very small but at Fidelity with a match and no added fees. All in a Fido S&P 500 fund at 0.04%.
So at the beginning of the year, my wife's old 401k, for the first time added a management fee. So in minutes, that has been rolled over to her Fidelity IRA, changing the fund from a Vanguard bond fund to a Fidelity one. Shaved some ER off while at it. I've also since opened up a couple taxable accounts at Schwab and Fidelity and the wife opened a Roth at Schwab and taxable at TDAmeritrade. Overall ER is now below 0.045%
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chuckb84
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by chuckb84 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:52 am

This took a minute or two, and I can't guarantee freedom from typos, but here are all the results from this thread. I threw out answers that didn't give a clear average, so some responses may be missing. I didn't look at caveats (like some many in CDs, etc), just reported the weighted average. I used two significant figures and rounded everything off to that. (In hindsight, 3 would have been better).

The average ER is around 0.14%, the low is 0.04%, the high is 0.62%. Without blending in special cases (CDs, cash, employer paid fees), the lowest possible seems to be around 0.05%, so 99.95% of your money is YOUR money!

Here's the data from the thread.

.30
.14
.06
.09
.50
.13
.19
.62
.55
.57
.20
.11
.08
.08
.16
.09
.14
.18
.14
.05
.14
.11
.16
.07
.10
.08
.08
.19
.05
.17
.12
.14
.08
.14
.11
.07
.09
.29
.30
.07
.22
.09
.07
.15
.35
.09
.27
.11
.11
.05
.18
.12
.30
.49
.16
.12
.05
.26
.22
.09
.05
.05
.22
.11
.12
.07
.13
.11
.14
.32
.11
.07
.09
.07
.09
.14
.14
.07
.11
.18
.05
.06
.09
.10
.04
.07
.08
.14
.09
.18
.10
.06
.06
.06
.12
.23
.07
.11
.25
.11
.19
.43
.08
.10
.06
.06
.23
.08
.08
.10
.05
.06
.08
.09
.15
.07
.30
.11
.05
.15
.08
.04

Da5id
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Da5id » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:02 am

My weighted expense ratio is 0.058%. Expense ratios range from Fidelity institutional S&P 500 (0.035%) to Vanguard Prime Money Market (0.16%, almost no money so little impact). Somewhat improved from last year as 401k changed from Principal to Fidelity.

I count emergency fund in Capital One Money Market and my I-bonds as having a 0% expense ratio, not sure if it can be accounted for otherwise. Not a huge proportion of my holdings anyway.

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Random Musings
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Random Musings » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:21 am

0.20%.

Drag comes from 401K (which is a complaint), plus my two legacy active Vanguard funds (which I'm not complaining about).

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pinot3
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by pinot3 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:50 am

Woohoo! With new expense ratios from VG, my weighted average is .0575.
pinot3 / total expense ratio: .06%

pinot3
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by pinot3 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:01 pm

Oops, .0595%
pinot3 / total expense ratio: .06%

aristotelian
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by aristotelian » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:55 pm

.19% mostly due to legacy mutual funds with very high capital gains that I am loathe to harvest.

ValueInvestor99
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by ValueInvestor99 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:37 pm

My expense ratio is 1.25% with about 35 trades a month (mostly options).

gouverneur
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by gouverneur » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:45 pm

0.07% - vast majority in Vanguard ETFs, iShares core funds, and TSP.

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Dale_G
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Dale_G » Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:55 pm

0.075%, but it still equals more than 5% of my annual living expenses - neglecting taxes. Good thing I am not with Ed Jones, Ameriprise, et al.

Keep up the good work Vanguard :D .

Dale
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oldzey
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by oldzey » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:46 pm

oldzey wrote:0.05% ER overall across 403b, Roth, and Taxable accounts.
Make that 0.0425%. :beer
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747driver
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Total ER

Post by 747driver » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:23 am

[2018 Update] My spreadsheet says: 0.054%

Thank you Vanguard, for lowering ERs this month, and thank you Bogleheads, for showing me the light.
Last edited by 747driver on Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dcabler
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by dcabler » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:54 am

0.18 and dropping as I slowly move out of my last remaining managed fund.

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DonCamillo
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by DonCamillo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:36 am

chuckb84 wrote:Without blending in special cases (CDs, cash, employer paid fees), the lowest possible seems to be around 0.05%, so 99.95% of your money is YOUR money!
99.95% is not quite accurate, as we hold on average for many years, and the expenses are deducted every year. Over time, assuming growth, your money trends to an average of what you put in and er divided by growth. If you are paying 5 basis points in expenses and earning 7%, or 700 basis points, then your account is growing annually by roughly 695 basis points. It is only approximate due to timing issues such as a loss one year and a bigger gain another.

For those who are in their early years of investing and contributing strongly, contributions tend to hide even relatively high expenses. For those who have large fund balances, and especially retired people who have stopped contributing, expenses can be devastating. If you are in the Edmund Jones accounts offered to my son as his only choice at his new employer for a 401k, you could be paying roughly 2% expenses on a yield of about 6%, so one third of your retirement income could go to expenses. Of course, the easy solution to that is to move all the 401k funds to a Vanguard IRA on retirement. It is still worthwhile for him to participate due to a company match.
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Bodacious
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Bodacious » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:19 am

My portfolio weighted average ER is currently 0.10%.

I have a Nationwide 457b plan and transferred 80% of my account balance into a Schwab self directed brokerage account last year. Before last year, my weighted ER was 0.80% in my Nationwide plan. My brokerage account "escape hatch" is saving me $1000's of dollars a year in fees.

Funds/ER in current portfolio

SCHB (broad market ETF) 0.03%
SCHA (small cap ETF) 0.05%
SCHF (int lg ETF) 0.06%
SCHC (int sm ETF) 0.12%
SCHE (int EM ETF) 0.13%
BCOIX (intermediate bond fund) 0.30%
Nationwide Stable Value (yield 3.35%) (0% ER) -SV fund not in Schwab account

danaht
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by danaht » Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:29 pm

My portfolio is 80% index funds, and 20% large cap individual stocks. Of the 80% index funds - the average expense ratio is .07%.

BlackHat
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by BlackHat » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:57 pm

.04%

401k -- WFSPX BlackRock S&P 500 Index Fund Class K Share
Roth IRA & Taxable Account -- VFIAX Vanguard 500 Index Fund Admiral Shares
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HuckFinn
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by HuckFinn » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:51 pm

All of our IRA's and our taxable account are with Vanguard - a great bulk of the portfolio is in VTSAX (Total Stock Market Admiral)

With the decrease in expense ratio our entire portfolio ER just hit an all time low of .005097 (just a pinch over 5 basis points)

10 years ago when my wife and I were invested in about ten different fund families for our taxable accounts and had separate 401k's I would guess we were easily 20x the expense ratio we are at today (or over 1% ER)

2015
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by 2015 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:27 pm

chuckb84 wrote:
<snip>

the lowest possible seems to be around 0.05%, so 99.95% of your money is YOUR money!
<snip>
That's me! Thanks Vanguard!!

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:07 pm

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:Confining my answer to what I think of as my retirement portfolio (which is mental accounting), nine basis points. Otherwise, if we use all financial assets (excluding only the value of my dwelling), rounded to the nearest bp it's nine. That isn't a typo.

I recently made a change which raised it from seven, but I had another good reason, convincing at least to myself and I won't post it, to do so. The decision wasn't based on the 0.02% cost difference, 0.0002, two parts in ten thousand, of portfolio annually, but I did notice, and in my personal situation it's worth the extra money, at least for now and the next several years. Then I'll re-evaluate.

To put it another way, a basis point or two of expense in either direction makes no material difference over my remaining investing lifetime, even if I live way longer than average.

PJW
If I may be forgiven for responding to myself, what with competitive voluntary reductions and all today I'm down to 6 bps, 0.01% lower than before I made the switch.
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House Blend
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by House Blend » Mon May 01, 2017 9:28 am

I have ~10% in TIAA Traditional. Although it obviously has expenses, it has no expense ratio. So it seems to me that the reasonable thing to do is to leave it out of both the numerator and the denominator. (I would do the same with CDs, if I owned any.)

I have another ~10% in TIAA Real Estate (TREA), which last year had an ER of 0.885%. (A new prospectus and new ER should be out any day now.) Amusingly, I am paying *far* more in expenses for just that one slice of my portfolio than the rest of it put together.

My Vanguard Accts: 0.07%.
The ~80% of the portfolio not involving Trad or TREA: 0.06%.
The ~90% of the portfolio not involving Trad: 0.15%.

FWIW, I do think folks should add in any fees they pay for their accounts (e.g., 401(k) fees). I think it would also be fair to subtract account transfer bonuses, although those can be sporadic--maybe they should be amortized. My employer's plan has had negative fees for the past several years--I've been getting a credit every December (trending down lately, but on the order of 1/4 to 1 basis point).

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k66
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by k66 » Mon May 01, 2017 2:18 pm

When I first started a BH approach (7 years ago), I assumed I would be able to build a portfolio for 25 bp and allowed for another 5 bp to manage the accounts (e.g. buy/sell costs when rebalancing).

I am currently at 8 bp (when perfectly balanced) and <2 bp for transactional costs. Pencil me in for 10 bp.
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DartThrower
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by DartThrower » Tue May 02, 2017 12:32 pm

Stubbornly stuck at 8 basis points despite Vanguard's latest expense ratio cuts.

By the way what do we do when we need to start talking about fractions of a basis point? Maybe we can refer to a percent of a percent of a percent as a Bogle point? :happy
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FamilyGuy87
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by FamilyGuy87 » Tue May 02, 2017 12:42 pm

Overall = 0.07%
Retirement = 0.06%
College = 0.16%

Cruncher
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Cruncher » Tue May 02, 2017 12:50 pm

7.84 basis pts:

50% VITSX 0.04%
30% VTSNX 0.10%
10% DFGEX 0.24%
10% VBTIX 0.05%

However, we just scored the Vanguard Tgt Dated retirement funds at 5 basis points at work! :beer

Alas, looks like my "management" of my portfolio will truly be a set it and forget it!! as it should be ...

Thanks Jack!

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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by triceratop » Tue May 02, 2017 1:07 pm

My weighted ER is 0.09%; it will likely creep up slightly as I move some funds around to better satisfy my SCV tilts. The far bigger expense for me is the tax efficiency of my portfolio: currently 0.17%. It is worth pushing my ER up slightly to reduce taxes.
House Blend wrote:I have ~10% in TIAA Traditional. Although it obviously has expenses, it has no expense ratio. So it seems to me that the reasonable thing to do is to leave it out of both the numerator and the denominator. (I would do the same with CDs, if I owned any.)
I wouldn't do this, though far be it for me to tell you how to look at your portfolio.. An expense ratio is supposed to tell you how much you are paying for your asset allocation. The fact you can obtain higher yields with CDs than treasuries (or treasury index funds with fees) is a point in your favor.
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House Blend
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by House Blend » Tue May 02, 2017 1:13 pm

DartThrower wrote:By the way what do we do when we need to start talking about fractions of a basis point? Maybe we can refer to a percent of a percent of a percent as a Bogle point?
Better gird your loins for the arrival of fractions. Could be that the next price drop in Admiral shares of TSM, if there is one, will be half a basis point. That's what happened to the Institutional share class: it went from 0.04% to 0.035%.

Speaking of Bogle units, might need those for writing a contract to hire an index fund manager. (I wonder if it is SOP for index fund managers to be compensated at least partly in very small fractions of AUM.) With $500B in assets even a single Bogle would be a tidy sum.

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cookymonster
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by cookymonster » Tue May 02, 2017 1:23 pm

cookymonster wrote:0.071
Vanguard's latest cuts have dropped me to 0.0682! :sharebeer

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rcjchicity
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by rcjchicity » Tue May 02, 2017 2:22 pm

With ER drops on both my Vanguard Roth IRA and my Fidelity 401k funds, I'm down to 0.05% (last time I checked I was at 0.08%)

Those expensive international index funds (0.11%) keep it high. :P

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Ice-9
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Ice-9 » Tue May 02, 2017 2:43 pm

0.09% weighted overall ER

Across workplace account at Fidelity, Roth at Vanguard, and Treasury Direct.

Target allocation
21% S&P500 index 0.052%
14% Extended Mkt Index 0.052%
7% REIT index 0.12%/0.084%
21% Total Int'l Index 0.171%/0.11%
7% Emerging Mkts Index 0.14%
15% Nominal Fixed Income (mix of TBM 0.052% and CDs)
15% Inflation-Indexed Fixed Income (mix of TIPS index fund 0.09%, individual TIPS, and I-Bonds)

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