What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

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happysteward
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What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by happysteward » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:38 pm

Hello fellow Bogleheads,

For those who know, what is the weighted overall expense ratio of your portfolio ?

I am really interested in those who still have a 401(k) as part of their portfolio...mine is 0.75% (75 bps)

Just a reality check on my part, for those who responded with ERs of something less than 0.10 % (10 bps) or so, are you including all the expense burdens from your 401(k)? I am quite sure that the 401(k) portion of the retirement portfolio has to include a "recordkeeper" as well as a "financial advisor" to be legal. Each of those entities , at least in my experience, enjoy 0.25 % (25 bps). So I was expecting numbers starting at 0.50% (50 bps) from those accounts with a significant 401(k) portion.
Last edited by happysteward on Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Petrocelli
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Petrocelli » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:42 pm

I never calculated it, but I would guess my Vanguard 401(k) is about .30% -- it has about a 50/50 split between active and index.

My stock portfolio is close to nothing. I spend about $50 a year to make 6 trades. So that would lower the .30% significantly.
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livesoft
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by livesoft » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:45 pm

Ever since my spouse's 401(k) added VFIAX, so that account alone could drop from about 2% to 0.05% expense ratio, the total e.r. of the portfolio has been about 0.14%. The assets in the TIAA Real Estate Account are what keeps the e.r. so high.
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lostdog
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by lostdog » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:46 pm

.06% :happy

Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares .05%
Vanguard Intermediate-Term Bond Index Fund Admiral Shares .09%
Vanguard Institutional Index I .04%
Last edited by lostdog on Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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CashBalance
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by CashBalance » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:46 pm

.09% :P

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nedsaid
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by nedsaid » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:58 pm

My expense ratio on all my retirement is about 0.50%. I am working this down over time. About 10 years ago, it was more like 0.78%. I index more and more of my money all the time.
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Whakamole
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Whakamole » Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:51 pm

0.054%

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whodidntante
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by whodidntante » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:09 pm

0.13%. 60% in a mostly miserable 401k with one low cost index fund.

earlgrey
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by earlgrey » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:10 pm

Somewhere between 0.03% - 0.05% (can't input TSP funds into the Morningstar x-ray tool to get the exact ER)

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stevewolfe
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by stevewolfe » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:15 pm

0.19%.

DetroitRick
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by DetroitRick » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:26 pm

Retirement portfolios (IRA's, all funds): 0.62% and dropping (dragged upward by international holdings)
Taxable is all stocks using low commissions and very infrequent trading.

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Toons
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Toons » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:29 pm

Active and index approx.
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oncorhynchus
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by oncorhynchus » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:40 pm

0.057%

Thanks for prompting me to update my spreadsheet. It looks like Vanguard dropped the ERs on a few of my funds in the past 18 months.

o
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avalpert
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by avalpert » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:39 pm

At the moment it is .195 - the biggest contributor to that with a quarter of the total cost is the TIAA Real Estate Account which isn't really a fair comparison because it includes property management and operating costs, but this isn't an exact science is it.

harikaried
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by harikaried » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:58 pm

0.107% including 529 plans. 0.092% without 529 plans. Highest dollar expense is from VSS.

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avenger
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by avenger » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:59 pm

All Vanguard index funds. 0.08%.
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MIretired
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by MIretired » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:19 pm

When I had a 401(k), I didn't know what the ER was. I only know I had some VINIX (VG inst. indx) @ about .25 to .32 ER. Also had some Amer. Fds. and Oppenheimer Fds. somewhere in the .5 to 1.25 area. It's been 10 yrs.

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PhysicianOnFIRE
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by PhysicianOnFIRE » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:21 pm

0.082% across all accounts. The only non-Vanguard fund is in my HSA, which represents 0.5% of the portfolio.

Costs matter.

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radiowave
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by radiowave » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:23 pm

.16% weighted average across the entire portfolio, trying for < .12% by end of the year
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:27 pm

0.085% weighted across both 457(b) and IRA.

I edited my post because I originally put 0.291% because I added the two numbers below (0.22% e.r. in 457(b) + 0.071% e.r. in IRA). But then I realized that's not right because there's only 9.5% of assets being charged 0.22% and 90.5% of assets being charged 0.071%. So I believe the weighted above (0.085%) is correct.

0.22% on 9.5% of assets in 457(b) and 0.071% on 90.5% of assets in IRA.
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baw703916
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by baw703916 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:52 pm

earlgrey wrote:Somewhere between 0.03% - 0.05% (can't input TSP funds into the Morningstar x-ray tool to get the exact ER)
Looks like 2.9 basis points for all the TSP funds in 2015

https://www.tsp.gov/InvestmentFunds/Fun ... Ratio.html
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clast
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by clast » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:08 pm

0.14% here.

BTW for anyone using Google Spreadsheets, you can get the expense ratio for a mutual fund almost the same way you can get the current price:

= GOOGLEFINANCE("VTSAX","expenseratio")

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topper1296
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by topper1296 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:10 pm

0.18% with a mix of individual stocks and index mutual funds and index ETFs spread over stocks, bonds, cash, REITS and natural resources. The only actively managed fund I have is Short Term Investment Grade Admiral.
Last edited by topper1296 on Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

LibertyLover
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by LibertyLover » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:32 pm

I'm surprised how low mine is. All my accounts money weighted it is .14% Only that high due to my emerging market allocation.

DFA Emerging Markets Value Portfolio Institutional Class Fund 0.56%
Fidelity Spartan® Extended Market Index Fund Fidelity Advantage Class 0.07%
Fidelity Spartan International Index Fund Fidelity Advantage Class Fund 0.12%
Vanguard Value Index Fund Institutional Shares Fund 0.07%
Vanguard Mid-Cap Index Fund Institutional Shares Fund 0.07%
Vanguard Small-Cap Index Fund Institutional Shares Fund 0.07%
Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares 0.12%
Vanguard Developed Markets Index Fund Admiral Shares Fund 0.09%

FYI, if you put your holdings/accounts into the free Personal Capital tool it will break down your fees.

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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by JeepDaze » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:35 pm

happysteward wrote:Hello fellow Bogleheads,

For those who know, what is the weighted overall expense ratio of your portfolio ?

I am really interested in those who still have a 401(k) as part of their portfolio...mine is 0.75% (75 bps)

Just a reality check on my part, for those who responded with ERs of something less than 0.10 % (10 bps) or so, are you including all the expense burdens from your 401(k)? I am quite sure that the 401(k) portion of the retirement portfolio has to include a "recordkeeper" as well as a "financial advisor" to be legal. Each of those entities , at least in my experience, enjoy 0.25 % (25 bps). So I was expecting numbers starting at 0.50% (50 bps) from those accounts with a significant 401(k) portion.
0.05%

NMJack
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by NMJack » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:10 pm

.037 Fortunately, my Megacorp 401k has some very low ER index funds (500, TMI, ACWI ex US, TBM)

gkaplan
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by gkaplan » Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:48 pm

.109%
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digarei
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by digarei » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:38 am

~~~~~~
My portfolio expenses are just shy of 13 basis points (.13% expense ratio)

weighted average • mostly index funds • includes plan/admin charges • 401(k) 457 Roth IRA and taxable accts

a (recently retired) member of our local chapter boasts an expense ratio of 8 basis points!

~~~~~~
note: for anyone starting out, an overall expense ratio < 50 basis points (.50% ER) is good
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Ari
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Ari » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:18 am

40% Avanza Zero ER 0%
40% Länsförsäkringar global ER 0.2%
20% Länsförsäkringar tillväxtmarknader ER 0.4%

Weighted average ER 0.16%
Add to this a tax of 0.42% on assets for a total ER including taxes of 0.58%.

But then I don't need to pay a capital gains tax on the earnings, so it might not be that comparable to the US.
All in, all the time.

qwertyjazz
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by qwertyjazz » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:29 am

Ari
How does a fund have a zero ER? Is there any payment issue that acts like an ER?
Thank you
QJ

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ruralavalon
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by ruralavalon » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:39 am

Just under 0.07%.

The portfolio is 5 Vanguard Index funds, 1 Vanguard managed fund, some Treasury bonds.
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packet
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by packet » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:55 am

0.1014

I'm always impressed by the numbers posted to this question when it pops up... :)

My ER is slowly drifting up towards 0.16 due to the S&P 500 fund in my 403b. It would be 0.0847 today and drifting downward, if not for my 403... :/

:beerCheers,
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b42
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by b42 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:18 am

Currently .08%

Dandy
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Dandy » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:27 am

.08. But that is distorted by investments that don't show an ER like CDs, EE bonds, Savings Accounts. My guess is that it would still be in the low teens at worst since the bulk of my true investments are in admiral shares.

azanon
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by azanon » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:22 am

.19% per my sig.

My view is costs matter, and they matter a lot, just not so much so that they should prevent you from having an asset class (or two) that you would want otherwise. Some asset classes simply cost more than others. If you really want a particlar asset class, but it's more pricey than Vanguard's vanilla index funds that charge 0.0x%, then pay up. You might be surprised how little it affects your weighted ER in the end. And an extra 10 basis points or so, overall, can easily be made up for by aggressive/volatile/uncorrelated asset classes that perform well in different investing climates.

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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by abner kravitz » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:33 am

Mine is also .19. The equity ER is .02, and the higher overall costs are driven by bond and stable value funds.

Spirit Rider
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Spirit Rider » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:34 am

Dandy wrote:.08. But that is distorted by investments that don't show an ER like CDs, EE bonds, Savings Accounts. My guess is that it would still be in the low teens at worst since the bulk of my true investments are in admiral shares.
I wouldn't say distorted, rather enhanced. I consider it a bonus of my I Bonds and individual TIPS.

Dandy
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Dandy » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:54 am

I wouldn't say distorted, rather enhanced. I consider it a bonus of my I Bonds and individual TIPS
.

I guess I feel the mutual fund industry is at a bit of a disadvantage since it has to publish it's expense haircut for expenses where banks and other products can just show the net return to the saver/investor without revealing their haircut for expenses. My guess is that if they did many buyers of their products might be a bit upset. So, I'm not sure how great the "bonus" is for these other products.

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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:59 am

0.050. My 401k is very small but at Fidelity with a match and no added fees. All in a Fido S&P 500 fund at 0.04%.
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AnotherGuyInOhio
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by AnotherGuyInOhio » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:07 am

.07 -- Vanguard Roth and 457(b) plan with Vanguard Institutional Plus shares

cpw84
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by cpw84 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:18 am

.12%

401k is all in a .20% target date fund built from index funds, the rest is in a 3 fund taxable Vanguard portfolio and a Roth.

crit
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by crit » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:25 am

0.14

That is across our taxable, spouse 1 403b and Roth, spouse 2 401k and tIRA. The IRAs and taxable are at Vanguard, of course. Spouse 1's 403b is at TIAA and has institutional-ER Vanguard funds. The big cost is Spouse 2's 401k, where the lowest-ER choice is a 500 fund at ER of 0.6; from what I've seen here, I don't feel terrible about it.

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goingup
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by goingup » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:28 am

happysteward wrote: Just a reality check on my part, for those who responded with ERs of something less than 0.10 % (10 bps) or so, are you including all the expense burdens from your 401(k)? I am quite sure that the 401(k) portion of the retirement portfolio has to include a "recordkeeper" as well as a "financial advisor" to be legal. Each of those entities , at least in my experience, enjoy 0.25 % (25 bps). So I was expecting numbers starting at 0.50% (50 bps) from those accounts with a significant 401(k) portion.
happysteward-
You're quite right about many 401K plans having a record-keeping/admin fee in addition to the fund's ER. Not all plans pass on those costs to participants, however. I don't think there's any uniformity such as a .25-.50% record-keeping burden. Just depends on the plan.

cusetownusa
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by cusetownusa » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:50 am

.08%

Most of our investments are at Vanguard in either a SEP IRA, ROTH IRA or just a regular taxable account.

However, we do have some investments in my wifes 403b but there isn't an "ER" per say so not sure how to factor that into our overall ER. All of the 403b money is in a Fixed Return fund (VOYA) that just generates 3% percent annual returns. Beyond that I have no idea what the ER would be considered

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tetractys
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by tetractys » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:56 am

6 accounts, today's E/R 0.144%, including 457(b) admin fees. -- Tet

phr
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by phr » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:09 am

portfolio ER= 0.11% :D

Used to be much higher. Escaped a miserable 401k this year and now 100% invested in index funds.

Spirit Rider
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by Spirit Rider » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:10 am

Dandy wrote:
I wouldn't say distorted, rather enhanced. I consider it a bonus of my I Bonds and individual TIPS
.
I guess I feel the mutual fund industry is at a bit of a disadvantage since it has to publish it's expense haircut for expenses where banks and other products can just show the net return to the saver/investor without revealing their haircut for expenses. My guess is that if they did many buyers of their products might be a bit upset. So, I'm not sure how great the "bonus" is for these other products.
What exactly are the expenses for I bonds and individual treasuries (or any individual stocks or bonds for that matter)? I hold the paper I bonds myself and the TIPS are help in an IRA. In neither case is there any expense to holding them. The bonus is the averaging in of 0.0% expense into the overall portfolio.

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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by oldcomputerguy » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:41 am

Just calculated it, the overall holding-weighted ER of my 401k is 0.07%. Highest is international (0.12%), lowest is SP500 (0.04%). Extended-market and aggregate bond funds both at 0.07%.
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SpringMan
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by SpringMan » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:42 am

Currently .09%, no 401(k)s to bring it down. We had some bad 401(k)s in the past like Transamerica but they have been rolled over to Vanguard. The worst ER we have now is Wellesley Income Admiral at .16% and consider it a keeper.
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lostdog
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Re: What is your overall portfolio weighted expense ratio

Post by lostdog » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:42 am

clast wrote:0.14% here.

BTW for anyone using Google Spreadsheets, you can get the expense ratio for a mutual fund almost the same way you can get the current price:

= GOOGLEFINANCE("VTSAX","expenseratio")

Clast,

When I used this in my spreadsheet it came up with 5%.
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