Does anyone invest in websites?
Does anyone invest in websites?
Lower end website investments (worth less than $20,000) are typically priced in terms of monthly revenues. A typical purchase price is 10 to 20 months worth of revenues making them a high cashflow investment. There is no free lunch and with websites there are risks from industry disruption, search engine preference changes, outright schemes from unscrupulous sellers and other risks.
Does anyone here invest in websites? How have things gone with your investments? I am thinking of making a few purchases on flippa.com. As someone who works in digital marketing I feel good about mitigating most of the risks.
Does anyone here invest in websites? How have things gone with your investments? I am thinking of making a few purchases on flippa.com. As someone who works in digital marketing I feel good about mitigating most of the risks.
- arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
"There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate: when he can't afford it, and when he can."
— Mark Twain
Buying websites isn't investing, it's speculation. Do you earn interest and dividends from your website name? No, you make money if you can sell it to another for a higher price than you bought it. That's the definition of speculation.
What does your IPS tell you? Do you have an IPS?
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investm ... _statement
Based on your previous posts, you seem to be stretching in many different directions...running a real estate/rehab business, asking about intermediate treasuries, inquiring about Target Date 2050 fund, inquiring about how to become a wealth manager, and now investing in websites??
Did you follow LadyGeek's previous advice to:
"...take a step back and start here: Getting Started (Be sure to watch the videos.)" ??
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started
Investing isn't about throwing a bunch of money at different things and seeing what sticks...if you do that, you have no cohesive strategy or overall plan. I think you should focus on the big picture rather than all the different strategies that might (or might not) get you to where you're trying to get.
Read the two links above and develop a workable plan. Once, and only once you have a plan in writing...then you can begin to implement it. And you won't worry about every great sounding idea that comes up later on.
Does that make sense?
— Mark Twain
Buying websites isn't investing, it's speculation. Do you earn interest and dividends from your website name? No, you make money if you can sell it to another for a higher price than you bought it. That's the definition of speculation.
What does your IPS tell you? Do you have an IPS?
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investm ... _statement
Based on your previous posts, you seem to be stretching in many different directions...running a real estate/rehab business, asking about intermediate treasuries, inquiring about Target Date 2050 fund, inquiring about how to become a wealth manager, and now investing in websites??
Did you follow LadyGeek's previous advice to:
"...take a step back and start here: Getting Started (Be sure to watch the videos.)" ??
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started
Investing isn't about throwing a bunch of money at different things and seeing what sticks...if you do that, you have no cohesive strategy or overall plan. I think you should focus on the big picture rather than all the different strategies that might (or might not) get you to where you're trying to get.
Read the two links above and develop a workable plan. Once, and only once you have a plan in writing...then you can begin to implement it. And you won't worry about every great sounding idea that comes up later on.
Does that make sense?
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions |
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
I don't think this is investing, but it could possibly be a good side hustle. I'd be suspicious of sites like Flippa. It's easy to juice affiliates or buy a lot of traffic, take a screenshot and caveat emptor. That said, developing online properties can be a nice side gig just be prepared to find your tolerance for grey areas because it can get pretty spammy, pretty quickly.
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
Those threads you mentioned are years old. They were meant as probing inquires, not serious plans.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Buying websites isn't investing, it's speculation. Do you earn interest and dividends from your website name? No, you make money if you can sell it to another for a higher price than you bought it. That's the definition of speculation.
Based on your previous posts, you seem to be stretching in many different directions...running a real estate/rehab business, asking about intermediate treasuries, inquiring about Target Date 2050 fund, inquiring about how to become a wealth manager, and now investing in websites??
Websites are income producing assets. As a digital marketer they are very relevant to me as an investment.
I know you are trying to help in your own way but I would appreciate a discussion focused on website purchases, thank you.
- TimeRunner
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
Websites are yesterday. Invest in smartphone apps.
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- quantAndHold
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
I looked at it a few years ago and passed. Basically, you're buying yourself a part time job. If you have some coding and design skills and some business sense, you could buy a niche site with low traffic, improve the site design, do some advertising, improve how the site is monetized, and boost the numbers. Then either resell it for a profit or continue to manage it yourself.
At the time it looked like actually making a living would require a broader set of skills than I had, so I passed. Since then, the bottom has fallen out of Internet advertising rates. Unless you have something you can sell...a book, a subscription based service, a physical product, that people come to your site and pay you directly for, you aren't going to make much money. Which damages the whole model of buying a site, fixing it up, and flipping it, because nearly every site you'd buy would be monetized by advertising.
On the other hand, if you have something that you can collect money for, start your own site from scratch. That apparently still can work. But it's a job, not an investment.
At the time it looked like actually making a living would require a broader set of skills than I had, so I passed. Since then, the bottom has fallen out of Internet advertising rates. Unless you have something you can sell...a book, a subscription based service, a physical product, that people come to your site and pay you directly for, you aren't going to make much money. Which damages the whole model of buying a site, fixing it up, and flipping it, because nearly every site you'd buy would be monetized by advertising.
On the other hand, if you have something that you can collect money for, start your own site from scratch. That apparently still can work. But it's a job, not an investment.
- quantAndHold
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
Actually, smartphone apps are yesterday now too. (Serious statement. I read somewhere that we'd reached "peak app" a year or two ago.) Now, the big thing is...oh jeez, I don't remember what the new thing is. Maybe something to do with Snapchat? I'm getting old.TimeRunner wrote:Websites are yesterday. Invest in smartphone apps.
- whodidntante
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
The new thing is "scalable websites" that work well regardless of device. Unless that's now the old thing.quantAndHold wrote:Actually, smartphone apps are yesterday now too. (Serious statement. I read somewhere that we'd reached "peak app" a year or two ago.) Now, the big thing is...oh jeez, I don't remember what the new thing is. Maybe something to do with Snapchat? I'm getting old.TimeRunner wrote:Websites are yesterday. Invest in smartphone apps.
- whodidntante
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
OP, I wish you luck, but you are are going to need luck to find someone on this board with experience investing in websites. That's a niche and doesn't fit the crowd here. The folks here generally talk about low ER passive mutual funds that are traded on open, government regulated markets.K8ya wrote:Lower end website investments (worth less than $20,000) are typically priced in terms of monthly revenues. A typical purchase price is 10 to 20 months worth of revenues making them a high cashflow investment. There is no free lunch and with websites there are risks from industry disruption, search engine preference changes, outright schemes from unscrupulous sellers and other risks.
Does anyone here invest in websites? How have things gone with your investments? I am thinking of making a few purchases on flippa.com. As someone who works in digital marketing I feel good about mitigating most of the risks.
That said, I hope you make a million dollars.
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
You may be right but in a group of financially minded people, we may have a few website investors. I have seen discussions for other narrow business interests on this forum.whodidntante wrote: OP, I wish you luck, but you are are going to need luck to find someone on this board with experience investing in websites. That's a niche and doesn't fit the crowd here. The folks here generally talk about low ER passive mutual funds that are traded on open, government regulated markets.
That said, I hope you make a million dollars.
I know of a guy who ran a hands-off website portfolio, unfortunately we have since lost contact. He said the key was to buy sites that you will not need to put a lot of time into. It was an interesting perspective and one that doesn't mesh well with my current skill set as someone who maintains a blog, social media accounts, and actively promotes.
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
My experience isn't really relevant to your question but here goes.
I have all the skills necessary to create (from scratch) websites and enough business skills (MBA, 20 year self-employed) to make money doing so.
In 2007, I created a niche website about bicycle touring, my retired passion. Since I am retired and this website is my baby, I have no interest in "monetizing" it. There are no ads and I don't want any. But, I have thought about it.
First off, trying to make money on ads is not a big opportunity. Basically, you are competing with Google and they have it all worked out. You could try to sell your own ads, but then you have a job, which I (and it sounds like you) don't want. The people I have talked to say that Google ads might pay for the monthly hosting charges.
Second, people are always probing and attacking my site. Since I wrote it from scratch and have my own verification system, netbots can't create an account and spam my site, at least they haven't yet. I am constantly seeing attempts to download my database, access my management tools (again, I wrote my own), and mess with my system. Since money is not part of my site, I don't have worry too much about these attempts succeeding. Worse things that would happen are 1) my site is disrupted or 2) they get login names and passwords, neither of which is a big deal to me and I have back-ups.
Third, it seems that the two ways to make money that I've come up with are 1) sell something you own or 2) sell a service that people are willing to pay for. Again, I have no interest in making money from my site, so my thinking hasn't gone any further than this.
In all honesty, the skills you list (blogging, social media, promotion) may be good ones for using other people's code, but have you actually managed your own site before? If not, you might need more training before you can do so safely.
I can't help by think that this sounds like someone asking about buying a "few" rentals and sitting back and collecting rents. As many here have pointed out, being a landlord is real work. It think the same can be said for making money off the internet.
I have all the skills necessary to create (from scratch) websites and enough business skills (MBA, 20 year self-employed) to make money doing so.
In 2007, I created a niche website about bicycle touring, my retired passion. Since I am retired and this website is my baby, I have no interest in "monetizing" it. There are no ads and I don't want any. But, I have thought about it.
First off, trying to make money on ads is not a big opportunity. Basically, you are competing with Google and they have it all worked out. You could try to sell your own ads, but then you have a job, which I (and it sounds like you) don't want. The people I have talked to say that Google ads might pay for the monthly hosting charges.
Second, people are always probing and attacking my site. Since I wrote it from scratch and have my own verification system, netbots can't create an account and spam my site, at least they haven't yet. I am constantly seeing attempts to download my database, access my management tools (again, I wrote my own), and mess with my system. Since money is not part of my site, I don't have worry too much about these attempts succeeding. Worse things that would happen are 1) my site is disrupted or 2) they get login names and passwords, neither of which is a big deal to me and I have back-ups.
Third, it seems that the two ways to make money that I've come up with are 1) sell something you own or 2) sell a service that people are willing to pay for. Again, I have no interest in making money from my site, so my thinking hasn't gone any further than this.
In all honesty, the skills you list (blogging, social media, promotion) may be good ones for using other people's code, but have you actually managed your own site before? If not, you might need more training before you can do so safely.
I can't help by think that this sounds like someone asking about buying a "few" rentals and sitting back and collecting rents. As many here have pointed out, being a landlord is real work. It think the same can be said for making money off the internet.
No matter how long the hill, if you keep pedaling you'll eventually get up to the top.
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
I've sold websites before and have run a number of popular and very profitable ones. Never bought one, but I've known quite a few people over the years who have invested in websites. Obviously, it's risky as search traffic can disappear overnight and you're never able to be quite sure the person you're buying a site from hasn't been doing black hat SEO.
But yeah, a lot of people make a LOT of money investing in websites specifically because it is a high risk/high reward activity. I'd qualify it more as a part-time job than investing, though, since you'll probably need to put in at least some on-going effort.
Contrary to what somebody above said, the bottom definitely hasn't fallen out of online advertising. Still plenty of money to go around.
But yeah, a lot of people make a LOT of money investing in websites specifically because it is a high risk/high reward activity. I'd qualify it more as a part-time job than investing, though, since you'll probably need to put in at least some on-going effort.
Contrary to what somebody above said, the bottom definitely hasn't fallen out of online advertising. Still plenty of money to go around.
These are income-producing websites. The point was that even if you never sell it, cash flow from the purchase will pay for itself in less than a year or, at absolute most, two (that would be considered an abnormally high valuation). So yes, you do earn interest and dividends from the website and buying websites can be very profitable even if it eventually ends up being worth $0.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Buying websites isn't investing, it's speculation. Do you earn interest and dividends from your website name? No, you make money if you can sell it to another for a higher price than you bought it. That's the definition of speculation.
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
I've thought about this seriously since I make a good part of my living in lead generation online. This came from years of organic SEO strategies paying off and I now have a top ranked web property for my niche that generates solid income. I've tried to duplicate it a few other times (in same niche) with very little success. What I've found is if it isn't your main priority, or job, it takes the back burner and doesn't ever get to where you need it to be. It's also quite different now than it was 4-5 years ago to grow organically. Back then you could do it much quicker and then flip.
- arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
1. What's the expected rate of return?KyleAAA wrote:I've sold websites before and have run a number of popular and very profitable ones. Never bought one, but I've known quite a few people over the years who have invested in websites. Obviously, it's risky as search traffic can disappear overnight and you're never able to be quite sure the person you're buying a site from hasn't been doing black hat SEO.
But yeah, a lot of people make a LOT of money investing in websites specifically because it is a high risk/high reward activity. I'd qualify it more as a part-time job than investing, though, since you'll probably need to put in at least some on-going effort.
Contrary to what somebody above said, the bottom definitely hasn't fallen out of online advertising. Still plenty of money to go around.
These are income-producing websites. The point was that even if you never sell it, cash flow from the purchase will pay for itself in less than a year or, at absolute most, two (that would be considered an abnormally high valuation). So yes, you do earn interest and dividends from the website and buying websites can be very profitable even if it eventually ends up being worth $0.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Buying websites isn't investing, it's speculation. Do you earn interest and dividends from your website name? No, you make money if you can sell it to another for a higher price than you bought it. That's the definition of speculation.
2. If something goes to $0, I wouldn't exactly call that profitable. Yes, you may have earned income along the way, but return of principal is more important than return on principal. Ask the investors in Enron if they considered it profitable venture...considering that went to $0.
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions |
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: 1. What's the expected rate of return?
2. If something goes to $0, I wouldn't exactly call that profitable. Yes, you may have earned income along the way, but return of principal is more important than return on principal. Ask the investors in Enron if they considered it profitable venture...considering that went to $0.
1. 4 to 10% per month is typical. Why do website returns rival some crazy african scam offers you've been cold emailed? For the reasons mentioned in this thread
2. Let's game this out. $20,000 at 8% per year with a return of principal at the end of year three. A back of napkin calculation gives you $4,800 in interest + your original $20,000. Now if you bought a website returning 8% per month you break even a little after month 12, collect the 8% per year investment's 3 years of interest 3 months later, and be paid the full value of the website in another 12 months. The longer the timeframe, the more the website beats the other investment.
Again there are no free lunches and risks are relatively high. The successful investor I knew said to always split the risk across multiple sites for this reason.
I thought this was a very informative book on buying websites: http://www.amazon.com/Website-Investor- ... e+investor
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
Never considered it
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
- Crimsontide
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
I've thought about it, but as with everything else "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is". And as with everything else, if I'm privy to it, you can bet the easy money is long gone
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
Like others, I wouldn't look at this as an investment, but a side business. It is possible to make some money through smaller websites, but can take a lot of work. I used to make a small amount ($100/month-ish) in college, but abandoned it once I graduated and starting making real money I have thought about getting back into it recently though as a side gig to boost my income.
Before buying a site, you'll need to know more than just the sale price and income. You'll need to thoroughly understand the niche that the site is targeting, your competition, where the site's traffic comes from (search engines, links from other sites, etc), the SEO that was done to rank it in the search engines (a lot of shady practices are used that can get the site de-indexed from Google), the income strategy (adsense, amazon, etc), and any growth areas you want to expand into.
I've browsed flippa several times in the past, and always came away feeling like there wasn't anything there I was comfortable investing in. Too scammy. Best way to buy a site is to find one, look up the owner through a whois search, and buy it directly. Better, but harder to do.
Personally, I think it's better to start from scratch and build a portfolio of sites yourself. Even better, focus on something you're passionate about and build the site that is the authority for that subject online. Over time, write your own ebooks to publish there, or build out a course, or other products to sell. That's where you'll find the real money. But it'll be a lot of work.
Before buying a site, you'll need to know more than just the sale price and income. You'll need to thoroughly understand the niche that the site is targeting, your competition, where the site's traffic comes from (search engines, links from other sites, etc), the SEO that was done to rank it in the search engines (a lot of shady practices are used that can get the site de-indexed from Google), the income strategy (adsense, amazon, etc), and any growth areas you want to expand into.
I've browsed flippa several times in the past, and always came away feeling like there wasn't anything there I was comfortable investing in. Too scammy. Best way to buy a site is to find one, look up the owner through a whois search, and buy it directly. Better, but harder to do.
Personally, I think it's better to start from scratch and build a portfolio of sites yourself. Even better, focus on something you're passionate about and build the site that is the authority for that subject online. Over time, write your own ebooks to publish there, or build out a course, or other products to sell. That's where you'll find the real money. But it'll be a lot of work.
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
This advice is absolutely spot-on.JPD wrote:
I've browsed flippa several times in the past, and always came away feeling like there wasn't anything there I was comfortable investing in. Too scammy. Best way to buy a site is to find one, look up the owner through a whois search, and buy it directly. Better, but harder to do.
Personally, I think it's better to start from scratch and build a portfolio of sites yourself. Even better, focus on something you're passionate about and build the site that is the authority for that subject online. Over time, write your own ebooks to publish there, or build out a course, or other products to sell. That's where you'll find the real money. But it'll be a lot of work.
These days, Flippa is nothing but junk and scams for the most part. Years ago, they had quality listings that simply needed a little TLC and time to produce, but they've since been exploited as a means for people to just try to make a quick buck hawking junk.
I've sold a dozen or so revenue-generating websites, but I've never purchased one. I've developed them all from scratch. My greatest success (and it's pretty modest) is a niche website I built around one of my hobbies. It brings in anywhere from $200 - $500 / month depending on the season and requires zero maintenance. Those numbers could be greatly increased if I dedicated more time to it, but as a father to a young child and being more focused on my day job, it's just not a super high priority right now.
Last edited by OatmealAddict on Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
- abuss368
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
Interesting but I have never considered.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
+1JimmyD wrote: This advice is absolutely spot-on.
These days, Flippa is nothing but junk and scams for the most part. Years ago, they had quality listings that simply needed a little TLC and time to produce, but they've since been exploited as a means for people to just try to make a quick buck hawking junk.
I've browsed flippa a few times, I didn't see any good deals. Often sites with ripped content, blacklisted adsense domains, etc. Be careful.
I run a few hobby sites, the portfolio peaked at 70k/yr down to 30k/yr or so now but they've taken lots of effort. If it was just for money the effort would NOT have been worth it, I used them as a chance to learn new skills I didn't have exposure to at my real job. Some of these projects also helped with job offers.
- zaboomafoozarg
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
I "roll my own" and invest my time to make them, but wouldn't consider purchasing ones that I didn't create.
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
Anywhere from 30-50% per year is quite common. This is a risky game that requires a lot of knowledge and skill to get right, so the expected return is also quite high. If you don't mind investing a bit time and effort, 100% or even 200% PER YEAR is extremely doable. But 30% is not unusual for a mostly passive investment. Of course, if you don't know what you're doing, you'll lose it all.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: 1. What's the expected rate of return?
The income you earned over time in this case might be 10 times the principal you invested. Why wouldn't you consider that a profitable venture? By definition, it was profitable.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: 2. If something goes to $0, I wouldn't exactly call that profitable. Yes, you may have earned income along the way, but return of principal is more important than return on principal. Ask the investors in Enron if they considered it profitable venture...considering that went to $0.
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
I've built a couple of wikis this year. I'm just getting started. I'm more interested in the nuts and bolts of the site promotion then the income stream. If you can point me to your strategies for that, I would appreciate it.
--Robert Sterbal |
robert@sterbal.com |
412-977-3526
- arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
If it's that profitable, why not invest every penny you have in that? I mean why bother with measly stock returns under 10% per year? I'm kidding of course. So if you can get those gains, great. But will it provide you with early retirement? Or is it more likely to give you good returns on a very small part of your overall savings? In other words, it may not make a huge difference on your overall goal.KyleAAA wrote:Anywhere from 30-50% per year is quite common. This is a risky game that requires a lot of knowledge and skill to get right, so the expected return is also quite high. If you don't mind investing a bit time and effort, 100% or even 200% PER YEAR is extremely doable. But 30% is not unusual for a mostly passive investment. Of course, if you don't know what you're doing, you'll lose it all.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: 1. What's the expected rate of return?
The income you earned over time in this case might be 10 times the principal you invested. Why wouldn't you consider that a profitable venture? By definition, it was profitable.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: 2. If something goes to $0, I wouldn't exactly call that profitable. Yes, you may have earned income along the way, but return of principal is more important than return on principal. Ask the investors in Enron if they considered it profitable venture...considering that went to $0.
By the way, I'm not interested in the possibility of losing "it all" (quote from above). The only way you could lose it all by owning the world stock market, is if every company on the planet went out of business at exactly the same time. Possible, but not likely. I think I'll stick with that instead.
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions |
- arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
I don't think the idea of diversification means investing in "multiple websites". Diversification isn't just owning many things of ONE TYPE, but rather owning many TYPES of different assets. Investing in websites may be one...but you'd want to invest in stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. to achieve true diversification.K8ya wrote:arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: 1. What's the expected rate of return?
2. If something goes to $0, I wouldn't exactly call that profitable. Yes, you may have earned income along the way, but return of principal is more important than return on principal. Ask the investors in Enron if they considered it profitable venture...considering that went to $0.
1. 4 to 10% per month is typical. Why do website returns rival some crazy african scam offers you've been cold emailed? For the reasons mentioned in this thread
2. Let's game this out. $20,000 at 8% per year with a return of principal at the end of year three. A back of napkin calculation gives you $4,800 in interest + your original $20,000. Now if you bought a website returning 8% per month you break even a little after month 12, collect the 8% per year investment's 3 years of interest 3 months later, and be paid the full value of the website in another 12 months. The longer the timeframe, the more the website beats the other investment.
Again there are no free lunches and risks are relatively high. The successful investor I knew said to always split the risk across multiple sites for this reason.
I thought this was a very informative book on buying websites: http://www.amazon.com/Website-Investor- ... e+investor
By the way K8ya--how do you know this investor was successful? Did he show you his tax return? If not, he could tell you whatever he wants. Also the person selling books on amazon is trying to make money from you. Ever wonder why he would give away his secrets instead of just continuing to get rich himself? In fact once he gives those secrets away, he has much more competition which means less money for him. Writing a book to teach you how to buy/sell websites isn't a good idea...unless selling books is even more profitable than buying/selling websites. In that case, you might want to write a book instead of buying websites.
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions |
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
Websites live and die by hosting Google ads. Google monitors content and goes back to old content on the website (think forum like Bogleheads) and can shut down ads when it finds content it doesn't like. Google decides what "it doesn't like". The ad revenue can be big dollars.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
My layperson's opinion...K8ya wrote:Lower end website investments (worth less than $20,000) are typically priced in terms of monthly revenues. A typical purchase price is 10 to 20 months worth of revenues making them a high cashflow investment. There is no free lunch and with websites there are risks from industry disruption, search engine preference changes, outright schemes from unscrupulous sellers and other risks.
This sounds like an incredibly bad idea. I'd pass.
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: I don't think the idea of diversification means investing in "multiple websites". Diversification isn't just owning many things of ONE TYPE, but rather owning many TYPES of different assets. Investing in websites may be one...but you'd want to invest in stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. to achieve true diversification.
You brought up diversification, not me. I agree that a website portfolio by itself has poor asset class diversification.
Ah yes, the old "why teach when you can do" argument. It is amazing that we can learn anything about competitive fields from books these days, isn't itBy the way K8ya--how do you know this investor was successful? Did he show you his tax return? If not, he could tell you whatever he wants. Also the person selling books on amazon is trying to make money from you. Ever wonder why he would give away his secrets instead of just continuing to get rich himself? In fact once he gives those secrets away, he has much more competition which means less money for him. Writing a book to teach you how to buy/sell websites isn't a good idea...unless selling books is even more profitable than buying/selling websites. In that case, you might want to write a book instead of buying websites.
Last edited by K8ya on Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
1. There are many traffic sources beyond Google. Social media, media buys, direct traffic, PPV, non-google organic links, etc.Jack FFR1846 wrote:Websites live and die by hosting Google ads. Google monitors content and goes back to old content on the website (think forum like Bogleheads) and can shut down ads when it finds content it doesn't like. Google decides what "it doesn't like". The ad revenue can be big dollars.
2. A website that relies on google is priced even lower than the valuations for sites with diverse traffic streams. Organic sources are valued less than paid sources for the downside risks you bring up.
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
I am against all forms of speculation and this, my friend, is speculation.
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
Ah yes, the old "why teach when you can do" argument. It is amazing that we can learn anything about competitive fields from books these days, isn't it [/quote]By the way K8ya--how do you know this investor was successful? Did he show you his tax return? If not, he could tell you whatever he wants. Also the person selling books on amazon is trying to make money from you. Ever wonder why he would give away his secrets instead of just continuing to get rich himself? In fact once he gives those secrets away, he has much more competition which means less money for him. Writing a book to teach you how to buy/sell websites isn't a good idea...unless selling books is even more profitable than buying/selling websites. In that case, you might want to write a book instead of buying websites.
I don't think this is a variant of the "those who can't teach" argument. Many successful investors have written their own books. You just need to be suspicious of writers of how to make money books when it seems like they got rich from writing the get rich quick books rather than implementing their own advice.
For the websites, it seems like a better idea to start from scratch.
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
I disagree. There is nothing fundamentally different between direct investing in an online business and an offline one.reriodan wrote:I am against all forms of speculation and this, my friend, is speculation.
There are discussions of website investment on Sitepoint and Warriorforum. People who are doing it more or less say it performs as expected, just not to buy a single egg due to the increased risks found online.
These are both internet savvy forums though which I guess explains the forum difference of opinion compared to here, which is more financial/passive/unspecialized.
Fair enough but you may wish to check the price of the book before defending that argumentamphora wrote:I don't think this is a variant of the "those who can't teach" argument. Many successful investors have written their own books. You just need to be suspicious of writers of how to make money books when it seems like they got rich from writing the get rich quick books rather than implementing their own advice.
For the websites, it seems like a better idea to start from scratch.
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
You are getting information from Warrior forum, which is perhaps the scammiest forum on the interwebs.
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
Thank you for posting that.K8ya wrote:
I thought this was a very informative book on buying websites: http://www.amazon.com/Website-Investor- ... e+investor
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
I make my living on advice obtained from Warriorforum. They are the Bogleheads of Internet marketing. Except they have that dreadful Warrior Special Offer forum which I agree with you on. The rest of the site is IMers helping each other, just like any other forum.sdsailing wrote:You are getting information from Warrior forum, which is perhaps the scammiest forum on the interwebs.
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
I used to live in the E-commerce world... We would do a ton of research to find niches people were searching for without a ton of competition, buy a URL, build a site, SEO the hell out of it up to #1 or #2 in Google for great keywords, find a dropshipper distributor, and kick back answering customer support emails and printing money.
Before you knew it we were slingin meat slicers, pitching machines, patio heaters, French macaroons, and so on all whilst running one of the few major online poker training recurring subscription sites.
At a peak we were probably doing about $200k/month in profit but then Google would hit the world with an update to its search algorithms...
... Then again.
... Then again.
All of a sudden you go from #1 in Google to #8 and now your completely irrelevant.
Before you knew it we were slingin meat slicers, pitching machines, patio heaters, French macaroons, and so on all whilst running one of the few major online poker training recurring subscription sites.
At a peak we were probably doing about $200k/month in profit but then Google would hit the world with an update to its search algorithms...
... Then again.
... Then again.
All of a sudden you go from #1 in Google to #8 and now your completely irrelevant.
Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
Well, yes. I've managed to sock away a very healthy six figures as a direct result of income from my websites. My SEP IRA was solely funded by website earnings.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: But will it provide you with early retirement?
A few thousand extra dollars per month in income will make a huge difference in anybody's overall goal. Quite a few people do it as their full-time job.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Or is it more likely to give you good returns on a very small part of your overall savings? In other words, it may not make a huge difference on your overall goal.
If you don't have the skills to run websites properly, I agree it's best you stick to more mainstream investments. But some people do, and they make a lot of money doing it in the same way many real estate investors make a killing buying, fixing up, and renting distressed properties. I, personally, have only ever built websites from scratch just because I prefer controlling everything from the beginning and I'm not interested in running a site on a topic I have no interest in. But I know how to evaluate a website's income potential and could skillfully invest in them if I wanted. As it stands currently, I have other ways of making money and got bored with the marketing stuff, so I no longer really do the website thing and my online income has dropped accordingly.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: By the way, I'm not interested in the possibility of losing "it all" (quote from above). The only way you could lose it all by owning the world stock market, is if every company on the planet went out of business at exactly the same time. Possible, but not likely. I think I'll stick with that instead.
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
Coincidentally, I just heard the Dough Roller podcast #34 "How to earn money with side hustles" hosted by Rob Berger, who had guest J. Money (link below). They were talking about buying websites/profiting from blogs, etc. Around 2/3rds of the interview through the host, Rob Berger (who does a good job with the show and interviews) sheepishly admitted he bought a website for $30,000 a few years ago. The guest seemed shocked at the amount of money spent on the website. Then Rob said the year before he bought it, the site earned $30,000 in revenue. So it then seemed to the guest like it was a good idea because Rob could make back his investment in one year and then after that...gravy.
Unfortunately for Mr. Berger, he admitted that the site only went on to earn him only $3000 over the next few years after he invested $30,0000. Mr. Berger made it seem like it was a mistake. Guess this particular site didn't meet his expectations. Risky business indeed. Be careful out there folks.
http://www.doughroller.net/thepodcast/
Unfortunately for Mr. Berger, he admitted that the site only went on to earn him only $3000 over the next few years after he invested $30,0000. Mr. Berger made it seem like it was a mistake. Guess this particular site didn't meet his expectations. Risky business indeed. Be careful out there folks.
http://www.doughroller.net/thepodcast/
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Re: Does anyone invest in websites?
buying a website isnt like buying a stock where you just buy and company runs itself while you go to the spa. youd buy it and suddenly you run a new business, youll need to maintain the existing staff or inventory product and know how to maintain websites, else hire an expensive web developer just to keep it running ok. things expire, and have to be renewed etc..
this forum is more about hands off passive investing vehicles i think, however nothing wrong wtih investing in active business. youll just need to be up for being able to run a business in general.
this forum is more about hands off passive investing vehicles i think, however nothing wrong wtih investing in active business. youll just need to be up for being able to run a business in general.