Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

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Howard Donnelly
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Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by Howard Donnelly » Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:43 am

Here's some new investment news:

http://www.investmentnews.com/article/2 ... s-chief-of

Thoughts?

pkcrafter
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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by pkcrafter » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:31 am

Thanks for posting. I think it's a good idea and I'll follow what Robbins is doing. Advisors, and the industry, are now discovering that risk questionnaires don't produce useful answers when it comes to emotional risk tolerance. There is a new approach in designing questionnaires using psychometric techniques that is supposed to be much better. The company that seems to be promoting it is Fina Metrica in Australia, but I don't know of any advisors in the U.S that are using it.

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When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

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nedsaid
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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by nedsaid » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:11 am

I have always liked Tony Robbins, you have to admire somebody who made himself from nothing. He gets very influential people to listen to him. As far as I know, he has not attended college.

I read his recent book on investing, my take was that the advice was mostly solid. He had a couple really good ideas about annuities but I wondered if in real life these concepts would actually work and if insurance companies could actually make a profit. I am talking about the Fixed Indexed Annuity. I would be interested to see the updates in his book as I wondered if this concept had been thought through well enough. A lot of seemingly good ideas get chewed up by the markets.
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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by skepticalobserver » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:32 am

Howard Donnelly wrote:Thoughts?
Here's a thought: look at the comments after the article. Also, check out this from the NYT (Slippery Tip on Annuities) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/17/your- ... coach.html (The skinny: He's talking-up fixed indexed annuities)

Would YOU take financial advice from Robbins?? I'd sooner walk on hot coals.

I'd certainly, however, take a course from him on marketing (not kidding).

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by WasabiOsbourne » Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:55 am

great topic... thank you OP for starting it....

i like Tony Robbins in many ways, but i do think he's out of his depth with financial advice and has conflict of interests galore... i do like his book in many ways too. although his starting date on "how great ray dalio's fund is" is very sketchy.

as to the subject of indexed annuities:

not sure the NYT mentioned this but i would think that when you have a fixed annuity with upside, you are getting a smaller payment on the annuity and the upside.

i.e. tony's comment would be "you are getting the fixed payment with upside".............. my comment would be "you are not getting the same payment but you are getting upside.......... sort of like convertible bonds pay pretty low coupons because the possible equity value is quite substantial. some market converts like its the "best of both worlds" but you could argue its the "worst of both worlds" (i realize those are grammatical impossibliities). more than like "gray vs. white or black"....

it's hard to believe that insurance companies can dress things up so they look great to consumer but be very profitable for InsuranceCo and lucrative for sales agent.....

how can this be? and some of this is just guess..

1) people don't look at the cash payout component closely enough.....4% vs. 5% over 20 years is a huge difference. could get you decent investment in stock market on side. and as they may invest in options on your behalf then there is no downside. but it will take probably decent returns on S&P to make up with 1% payout difference (esp. with hurdle rates and perhaps on capital appreciation S&P 500 index)

2) hurdle on stock return??........ hurdles mean little when indexes return 10%-20% or even higher regularly... at a 6% or 7% return, hurdles are really important.

3) is the index return you are indexed to inclusive of dividends? similar to point #2, makes a HUGE difference on 6% return with a hurdle

interesting, does NYT suggest that insurance companies won't honor some of these? i know that insurance companies in the past have issued indexed, protected products that turned out to be great investments. didn't model properly or very strange events occurred......... and sometimes you can find a situation where product A beats standard product in almost every way (Milevsky - annuity professor - has story about this)

had one more point, but it's flown from my mind...

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stemikger
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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by stemikger » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:49 pm

All I keep seeing is his late night informercials with him telling people to walk on hot coals. However, I know a very successful businesswoman who's company sent her to one of his weekend retreats and she said it was the best thing she ever did for her career. Having said that, this particular lady is not a very nice person, so I took it from where it came from.

On a side note, I did attempt to read Tony's book and I was very surprised how all the respectable financial experts were interviewed by him. So what do I know. Even Jack gave him an interview.

After getting through a nice portion of the book and jumping around, it is clear Tony's heart belongs to Ray Dalio and his All Weather Portfolio. It is definitely unorthodox advice, but who knows if it will do well or not. It seems very much like the Harry Browne Permanent Portfolio.

I personally think I might have a trust issue with TR, but I'm very jaded when it comes to religion, self-help gurus and politics. What can I say, I'm a native New Yorker.
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by Toons » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:51 pm

Smart,Savvy,Shrewd..
Businessman,,, :moneybag :moneybag
Started out Motivational,,
Now Financial Advisor. :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by nisiprius » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:54 pm

He's taken on the newly created role of chief of investor psychology at wealth manager Creative Planning, helping to train advisers on how clients' emotional needs may impact their approach to investing. He's also seeking to educate the public on financial planning to help them avoid excessive fees and conflicted investment advice.
Whose interests is he serving? Who is paying him? Who is he working for? Which is his primary role and which is his "also?"
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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Cosmo
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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by Cosmo » Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:10 pm

No doubt markets are complex and most investors need the help of experts to guide them into retirement.
Red flag.

Cosmo

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rob
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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by rob » Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:22 pm

I guess he has worked out there is more money to be got in "financial services" then motivational speaking. He no doubt has a following,er , sales leads that are useful to the firm. He has done well... good for him. Like an honest politician, there are few that avoid the conflict of interest but maybe he can be one of the few.... but I'm not using my $$ to find out :D
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by mlebuf » Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:47 pm

skepticalobserver wrote: Would YOU take financial advice from Robbins?? I'd sooner walk on hot coals.
+1
The Tony is a great salesman. Would risk your money trusting someone who sold fire-walking seminars and is frequently seen on late night infomercials? There is good sound information and information that sounds good. Bogleheads.org offers the former and it doesn't cost a dime.
Best wishes, | Michael | | Invest your time actively and your money passively.

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nedsaid
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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by nedsaid » Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:27 pm

Tony Robbins is certainly a great marketer and he knows how to promote himself and his businesses. He certainly is controversial. But anyone who ever accomplishes much of anything will have his or her critics. Accomplishment always generates a certain amount of controversy, a lot of that is just envy.

Robbins wrote a pretty good book on investing. Nice interviews with financial experts and mostly Boglehead type of advice. You either believe in the concept of the "All Weather Portfolio" as laid out by Ray Dalio or you do not. The weak spot was the Fixed Index Annuity. I am not sure the concept is fully developed and not sure the concept has been tested enough with real investments in real markets.

Robbins is trying to be creative and innovate and that should be applauded. Whether his creative ideas work in the real world will take some real life experience to test. But heck, the Vanguard S&P 500 Index was once called "Bogle's Folly." Give the guy a break and credit him for thinking outside the box. I don't think his book was flim-flam. But yes, the book wasn't perfect and had weak points.
Last edited by nedsaid on Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by Toons » Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:42 pm

mlebuf wrote:
skepticalobserver wrote: Would YOU take financial advice from Robbins?? I'd sooner walk on hot coals.
+1
The Tony is a great salesman. Would risk your money trusting someone who sold fire-walking seminars and is frequently seen on late night infomercials? There is good sound information and information that sounds good. Bogleheads.org offers the former and it doesn't cost a dime.

+1 :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by Jpg » Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:56 pm

Started reading Master The Game 2016 edition today.I believe Icahn, Swensen,Bogle, Dalio, Pickens, Bass,.. Know more about investing than I do.Robbins is smart because he is surrounding himself with people who are smarter than he is when it regards investing. I would appreciate Bogleheads opinions concerning Dalio "All Seasons Portfolio" 30% stocks,40% US bonds, 15% int US bonds, 7.5 commodities, 7.5 gold. In 2008 it was only -3.9%, and in 2002 was +7.8%. It seems to be a good conservative portfolio. I would appreciate your thoughts and comments on both this portfolio and also Swenson's and Bogle's portfolios in comparison. Thanks

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by nedsaid » Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:12 pm

Jpg wrote:Started reading Master The Game 2016 edition today.I believe Icahn, Swensen,Bogle, Dalio, Pickens, Bass,.. Know more about investing than I do.Robbins is smart because he is surrounding himself with people who are smarter than he is when it regards investing. I would appreciate Bogleheads opinions concerning Dalio "All Seasons Portfolio" 30% stocks,40% US bonds, 15% int US bonds, 7.5 commodities, 7.5 gold. In 2008 it was only -3.9%, and in 2002 was +7.8%. It seems to be a good conservative portfolio. I would appreciate your thoughts and comments on both this portfolio and also Swenson's and Bogle's portfolios in comparison. Thanks
The real All Weather portfolio has a dynamic asset allocation and also uses leverage. Dalio doesn't reveal to the public exactly how his hedge fund is invested. What he did for Tony Robbins was sketch out a portfolio that individuals could construct on their own. We have had a 30 year plus bull market in bonds since 1982 and this has contributed a lot to the portfolio's steady performance. Truly, it was the mother of all bond bull markets. Hard to say how it would have done in a 1970's stagflation which caused both stocks and bonds to perform very poorly. Would the 7.5% each in gold and commodities have bailed out this portfolio? Hard to say. There has been some back testing done and the results shown in another thread. Check it out.
A fool and his money are good for business.

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by WasabiOsbourne » Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:33 pm

for all the grief tony seems to be getting for his loving that portfolio with high government bond weights and using 40 year returns to show how great it, it seems like proponents on low volatility investing don't get near enough criticism esp. given that most of those are investment professionals.

it seems very obvious to that cstaples and hcare simply amazing long-term risk-adjusted returns have to do with secular declining interest rates.. and more recently people piling into low-vol strategies.

basically when people show you amazing historical low-vol results you should also point out that long rates have gone from 14% to under 2% over most of that 40 year period. 30 or 35 year period has been complete "bond super-cycle" gravy

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by jeremyl » Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:30 pm

I read his book when it first came out. I could see his plugs for the different products he was endorsing. I didn't care for that, but it introduced me to the Bogleheads guide to investing book of which I'm grateful because it led me to figuring out investing after doing dave Ramsey's debt snowball ( I wouldn't follow his investment advice). The book was long and drawn out but I was able to get the info on the Bogleheads so it was good for me.

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by oldzey » Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:51 pm

Howard Donnelly wrote:Here's some new investment news:

http://www.investmentnews.com/article/2 ... s-chief-of

Thoughts?
I think that Tony is starting to look like John Waters. I also think that he's made more money than I ever will. I'll still keep my funds at Vanguard.

Like him or not, he's a self-made man. 8-)

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by selftalk » Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Do you honestly think Tony Robbins knows more about investing in securities than John Bogle. He`s a good marketer but probably not a good stock selector. John Bogle said that he never knew anyone who could beat the market and also never knew anyone who knew anyone who could beat the market. Tony Robbins`s job is to use his name to acquire more assets for the advisory firm to manage and thus more income for the Firm and himself. Keep investing in your Vanguard funds. You`ll be glad you did.

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by Jpg » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:06 pm

If you actually read the book Robbins admits that he does NOT know as much as Bogle - that is why he interviewed Bogle, Swensen, Icahn, .. What do Bogleheads think of Swensen's portfolio ( 20% US total stock, 20 developed foreign markets, 20 US Reits, 15 long term US treasuries, 15 Tips, 10 emerging markets ) ? Thanks

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by mlebuf » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:08 pm

Like him or not, he's a self-made man.
So was Hitler. Being self-made isn't necessarily a virtue.
Best wishes, | Michael | | Invest your time actively and your money passively.

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Howard Donnelly
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"Tony Robbins: I Am Not Your Guru"

Post by Howard Donnelly » Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:11 pm

Has anyone seen, or heard reviews of, the new Tony Robbins documentary?

From Indiewire:

On July 15, Netflix will release the premiere of "Tony Robbins: I Am Not Your Guru." The feature documentary is the 12th film from Joe Berlinger ("Brother's Keeper") and is about the acclaimed motivational speaker, best-selling author and personal finance strategist. It will receive its worldwide debut at the SXSW Film Festival on March 14.

"Tony Robbins: I Am Not Your Guru" goes behind the scenes of Tony Robbins' annual seminar, Date With Destiny. Every year in Florida, over 2,500 people attend Robbins' most intimate and intensive event, which last six days and nights. Robbins gave the crew access to the event itself, as well as its production, daily regimen and the inner workings of the creative team.

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by tetractys » Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:29 pm

For others, like me, who have never heard of Tony Robbins, here's some info.

Best regards -- Tet

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by mlebuf » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:35 am

Another perspective on Tony Robbins as an investment advisor: https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-cent ... ment-guru-
Best wishes, | Michael | | Invest your time actively and your money passively.

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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by TonyDAntonio » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:56 am

The first sentence of this article says all you need to know...

By Page 418 of Tony Robbins’s new book “Money: Master the Game,” which promises on the cover that its seven steps to financial freedom will be “simple,”...

"Simple"...Page 418...?????
skepticalobserver wrote:
Howard Donnelly wrote:Thoughts?
Here's a thought: look at the comments after the article. Also, check out this from the NYT (Slippery Tip on Annuities) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/17/your- ... coach.html (The skinny: He's talking-up fixed indexed annuities)

Would YOU take financial advice from Robbins?? I'd sooner walk on hot coals.

I'd certainly, however, take a course from him on marketing (not kidding).

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Steelersfan
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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by Steelersfan » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:42 pm

For someone who doesn't know the All Weather Portfolio (I didn't), here's a description and how it back tested over two different time frames.

http://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/11 ... portfolio/

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sdsailing
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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by sdsailing » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:26 pm

A classic self-promoting huckster. How can any well educated person take this guy seriously?

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Will do good
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Re: Tony Robbins Joins Advisory Firm

Post by Will do good » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:49 pm

sdsailing wrote:A classic self-promoting huckster. How can any well educated person take this guy seriously?
Funny, I feel the same way about him. I've read two of his books, he come across like the typical TV "personalities", Dr. Phil, Dr Oz etc… little slimy.

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