What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

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BogleBuddy12
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What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by BogleBuddy12 »

I have different accounts and different ETFs, at Vanguard, Schwab, etc.

Is there a website or program you all use to keep all investments in one place, and see how much % you went up or down each year?
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AtlasShrugged?
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by AtlasShrugged? »

Microsoft Excel? :happy
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mervinj7
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by mervinj7 »

If you don't mind giving your login credentials to a third-party, you can use personal capital:

https://www.personalcapital.com/
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by livesoft »

For PC users, there is the free Microsoft Money. I've used it a long time and it's perfect for what I want to do. One can calculate returns between any two dates while selecting any sets of accounts and any sets of investments. It is actually extremely flexible in that regard, so it outdoes what any web site will allow you to do and you don't have to figure out any spreadsheet stuff either. It just works.
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Taylor Larimore
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by Taylor Larimore »

What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?
Ajacobs6:

I simply look at the balance on my annual statement and don't bother figuring the percentages (we get what the market gives). All my funds are with Vanguard.

Best wishes.
Taylor
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mhc
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by mhc »

I don't calculate % up or down each year. I don't know what I would do with that information. I hold index funds that do a very good job of tracking their indices.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by DSInvestor »

I do not calculate the % up or down each year.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by alex_686 »

It is important to different between increases/(decreases) from the market and reinvestment against increases/(decreases) from your contributions / (withdrawals).

I use Microsoft Excel's XIRR function. It handles this beautifully.
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renue74
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by renue74 »

Google spreadsheet with XIRR function. Tracks performance for different account, retirement projections, contributions, etc.

Works fine after some tweaking, though I hate to look at it today. :confused
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by Ron »

JCE66 wrote:Microsoft Excel? :happy
That's what I use, FWIW...

- Ron
longinvest
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by longinvest »

How about our wiki: Calculating personal returns page?

It explains the different types of returns (investor return vs portfolio return) and provides an easy-to-use online spreadsheet to calculate them.
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LateStarter1975
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by LateStarter1975 »

Taylor Larimore wrote:
What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?
Ajacobs6:

I simply look at the balance on my annual statement and don't bother figuring the percentages (we get what the market gives). All my funds are with Vanguard.

Best wishes.
Taylor
This is so genius! Thank you Taylor for your simplicity...it sure is robbing off on me!
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Toons
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by Toons »

When I do calculate ,which is not very often,
Quicken :happy
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IlliniDave
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by IlliniDave »

I typically don't bother, but for a crude guess I just go with what fidelity tells me which is about 70-75% of my assets. If I want to be a little more accurate I do a weighted average of what fidelity tells me and what vanguard tells me. No idea how accurate the "personal performance" numbers fidelity and vanguard give are.
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randomizer
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by randomizer »

I have a personal investment plan (AA, contribution schedule, glide path) that I mean to stick to regardless of the % up or down in any given year, but I still like to calculate returns out of curiosity. I use the wiki: Calculating personal returns page that longinvest mentioned above. Works great, and is trivial to update (a minute or two per month).
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artthomp
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by artthomp »

I use Microsoft Excel. I have a spreadsheet that can provide my net worth and the value of all my investments on any given day. I use it to rebalance about once a year
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by bayview »

longinvest wrote:How about our wiki: Calculating personal returns page?

It explains the different types of returns (investor return vs portfolio return) and provides an easy-to-use online spreadsheet to calculate them.
I use this, because I'm still adding to my retirement funds, and it works well for that. Once it's set up, it's incredibly easy to maintain, and I'm not giving anyone passwords to various accounts.

If my retirement money were just sitting there, with nothing going in or out, I might use Taylor's wonderfully simple non-method. :sharebeer
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randomizer
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by randomizer »

bayview wrote:If my retirement money were just sitting there, with nothing going in or out, I might use Taylor's wonderfully simple non-method. :sharebeer
The thing is, I need to do something peripheral while I'm following Bogle's advice of "Don't do something. Just stand there!". Playing with spreadsheets, TLH-ing, and the occasional rebalance help stop me from feeling skittish.
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RenoJay
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by RenoJay »

I simply look at the difference in my net worth each year as a percentage. This does very, very little to tell me the performance of my funds (since my formula does not account for ordinary income earned or money spent) but when I end up with a green arrow I buy myself a double scoop of ice cream instead of a single scoop.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by Dick D »

I do not calculate it. I just look at the bottom line. Is it up, or is it down. Then I look next year.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by dbr »

Excel, if I want to know something. I don't especially look at what % I am up or down in a year nor at return.
red5
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by red5 »

As many others mentioned; Excel. If you really want to find out your return then read up on XIRR function which calculates your compound annual growth return (CAGR).

Otherwise, Morningstar has a powerful and free portfolio tracker tool.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by mcraepat9 »

mhc wrote:I don't calculate % up or down each year. I don't know what I would do with that information. I hold index funds that do a very good job of tracking their indices.
+1

I enjoy when people ask me how much I'm up or down in any year. I respond "I don't know and I don't care". If your investment plan is solid, then does it really matter?
Amateur investors are not cool-headed logicians.
dkturner
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by dkturner »

Toons wrote:When I do calculate ,which is not very often,
Quicken :happy
I have found that the returns Quicken shows differ from the results shown by Vanguard and Excel XIRR. Is there some Quicken function that I'm not using properly?
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by Doc »

dkturner wrote:
Toons wrote:When I do calculate ,which is not very often,
Quicken :happy
I have found that the returns Quicken shows differ from the results shown by Vanguard and Excel XIRR. Is there some Quicken function that I'm not using properly?
Make sure you have a non zero position at the start of the period for (?) every security or account. IIRC you can put in $1 on day 1 and take it out on day 2.

Same problem as IRR vs XIRR.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by dkturner »

Doc wrote:
dkturner wrote:
Toons wrote:When I do calculate ,which is not very often,
Quicken :happy
I have found that the returns Quicken shows differ from the results shown by Vanguard and Excel XIRR. Is there some Quicken function that I'm not using properly?
Make sure you have a non zero position at the start of the period for (?) every security or account. IIRC you can put in $1 on day 1 and take it out on day 2.

Same problem as IRR vs XIRR.
It doesn't work, Doc.

No transactions YTD. Positive beginning balances in all accounts. Quicken says -55.50 YTD IRR. XIRR says -58.20 YTD IRR. YTD actual returns are -2.84 using Quicken IRR and -3.06 using XIRR IRR. Vanguard 3 fund total market index funds weighted to correspond to my portfolio -3.41 YTD.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by Quark »

You can do a rough approximation of returns: (end_value - start_value - net_contributions) / (end_value - net_contributions/2).
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by J295 »

Actually, I don't calculate. In my case, it is too much work, wouldn't change our AA, and might feed any fear or greed I posses. We do check balances periodically and track annual net worth.
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Bustoff
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by Bustoff »

DSInvestor wrote:I do not calculate the % up or down each year.
+1 ... b/c it's out of my control.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by dkturner »

Bustoff wrote:
DSInvestor wrote:I do not calculate the % up or down each year.
+1 ... b/c it's out of my control.
Our portfolios deviate from the "market" portfolio so we have an interest in quantifying the extent of the mistake we are making.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by Sheepdog »

This doesn't help you or anyone else. I still use Money 2002. It is very accurate, easy to use. And before that, Money 98 just as I was retiring and needed help. And before that...I didn't care or need to know.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by Doc »

dkturner wrote:
Doc wrote:
dkturner wrote:
Toons wrote:When I do calculate ,which is not very often,
Quicken :happy
I have found that the returns Quicken shows differ from the results shown by Vanguard and Excel XIRR. Is there some Quicken function that I'm not using properly?
Make sure you have a non zero position at the start of the period for (?) every security or account. IIRC you can put in $1 on day 1 and take it out on day 2.

Same problem as IRR vs XIRR.
It doesn't work, Doc.

No transactions YTD. Positive beginning balances in all accounts. Quicken says -55.50 YTD IRR. XIRR says -58.20 YTD IRR. YTD actual returns are -2.84 using Quicken IRR and -3.06 using XIRR IRR. Vanguard 3 fund total market index funds weighted to correspond to my portfolio -3.41 YTD.
The problem may be in the short time period. I checked this out years ago and decided that Quicken and Excel were in agreement. I know that for time periods less than a year the results are screwy. You need to have a balance or cash flow at beginning and at the end. Quicken generates the ending cash flow by assuming a sale of the portfolio. You have to do that yourself with Excel. The difference may also be a 360/365 day year thing but your numbers show too big a difference for that to be the problem unless the short time period is also a factor. (Also I have a vague recollection that Excel requires a negative cash flow (cash out) at the beginning.)

I have some "standardized" Quicken reports set up. The year to date shows a -84.03% for domestic equity but a -6.17% for the year ending 12/31/16. The current balance is automatically put into the "calc" as a positive cash flow (sale) on the last 12/31/16 but the report just shows "ending balance". I don't have time to confirm with Excel today but I will over the weekend if it rains or snows.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by marie567 »

I keep track of % up or down each year because it is one factor in my investment plan. I have a low % gain as an estimate assumption hoping over time I will meet this or exceed. Some years will be above this and some years below. It is a way for me to know during the year how is my plan doing. I note investment totals in each account (not by fund) minus beginning of year total balance less RMD I take to get dollar gain/loss then divide by beginning balance (less RMD - I think that assumes RMD was taken on first day of year). If the market isn't doing well, I can adjust other factors like decrease spending and/or get a job. I am a newly maybe retired person so the withdrawal phase is new.

This is an aside on this question but I know that I may be reacting too quickly to the recent market events by minimizing spending. If everyone does this the US economy will suffer. I like having some control over my retirement planning and it helps me emotionally to do something like minimize spending. The market is so volatile, though, that these losses could become gains just as quickly, obviously we just don't know. I know I can also invest at this time as a strategy. My equity investments are earmarked to be used 10 years down the road and I am comfortable with my asset allocation but to have one's gains over plan reduced is disconcerting. Better safe than sorry? Just have faith? Can there be too much planning?
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by Doc »

@dkturner
Doc wrote:I have some "standardized" Quicken reports set up. The year to date shows a -84.03% for domestic equity but a -6.17% for the year ending 12/31/16. The current balance is automatically put into the "calc" as a positive cash flow (sale) on the last 12/31/16 but the report just shows "ending balance". I don't have time to confirm with Excel today but I will over the weekend if it rains or snows.
Quicken Investment Performance Report: one security in 2 accounts for period 1/1/2015 to 12/31/15, initial balance 0.00, first buy 1/2/15, -> IRR -2.82

Copied data from that report to Excel. XIRR -> -2.827%

Looks good to me.

:?:
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by dkturner »

Doc wrote:@dkturner
Doc wrote:I have some "standardized" Quicken reports set up. The year to date shows a -84.03% for domestic equity but a -6.17% for the year ending 12/31/16. The current balance is automatically put into the "calc" as a positive cash flow (sale) on the last 12/31/16 but the report just shows "ending balance". I don't have time to confirm with Excel today but I will over the weekend if it rains or snows.
Quicken Investment Performance Report: one security in 2 accounts for period 1/1/2015 to 12/31/15, initial balance 0.00, first buy 1/2/15, -> IRR -2.82

Copied data from that report to Excel. XIRR -> -2.827%

Looks good to me.

:?:
Thanks, Doc.

I went back and looked at performance reporting for last year with Quicken and found a problem I had inadvertently caused. During 2015 I took RMDs from my IRA, and simply removed shares from the account (no $ value entered). I then showed the cash value of the share withdrawals going into my checking account and classified it as "retirement income: IRA distribution". I did this so I could generate an accurate income and expense report on the Quicken system. If I simply showed a sale with the proceeds deposited in my checking account the Quicken system wouldn't show an income transaction on my income and expense report. There may be a correct way of accounting for IRA withdrawals that shows them as income but I haven't succeeded in getting it done on the Quickem system. Since I'll be taking RMD going forward it's unlikely the Quicken system will work properly, considering the way I account for my IRA withdrawals.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by Doc »

dkturner wrote:There may be a correct way of accounting for IRA withdrawals that shows them as income but I haven't succeeded in getting it done on the Quickem system.
try <Tools> <Category list> show "tax related only" --->>>

There should be an entry like:

Category = [IRA account Name]
Type = Transfer
Tax line item = In Form 1040:IRA - Out 1099-R:total IRA gross ...

I don't worry about it since we have only one transaction a year so let me know how it works.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by Ketawa »

dkturner wrote:No transactions YTD. Positive beginning balances in all accounts. Quicken says -55.50 YTD IRR. XIRR says -58.20 YTD IRR. YTD actual returns are -2.84 using Quicken IRR and -3.06 using XIRR IRR. Vanguard 3 fund total market index funds weighted to correspond to my portfolio -3.41 YTD.
Not sure I completely understand your issue since you said that Quicken gives two different sets of values, some weird and some correct. Maybe a typo? I'll take a stab anyway.

In Excel, XIRR returns a value that is annualized over a year. For example, if an asset is up 10% in one month, it returns a percentage that assumes it continues to increase at that rate, about 10% per month compounded. XIRR should return something around:

(1 + 10%) ^ 12 - 1 = 2.14%

The actual value using Jan 1 and Feb 1 with a 10% increase: 2.07%.

To calculate the YTD return of my assets, I use this formula where XIRR is the value returned by XIRR:

=(1+XIRR)^YEARFRAC(DATE(YEAR(TODAY()),1,1),TODAY(),1)-1

Quicken is probably similar.
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Re: What do you use to calculate total % up or down each year?

Post by dkturner »

Ketawa wrote:
dkturner wrote:No transactions YTD. Positive beginning balances in all accounts. Quicken says -55.50 YTD IRR. XIRR says -58.20 YTD IRR. YTD actual returns are -2.84 using Quicken IRR and -3.06 using XIRR IRR. Vanguard 3 fund total market index funds weighted to correspond to my portfolio -3.41 YTD.
Not sure I completely understand your issue since you said that Quicken gives two different sets of values, some weird and some correct. Maybe a typo? I'll take a stab anyway.

In Excel, XIRR returns a value that is annualized over a year. For example, if an asset is up 10% in one month, it returns a percentage that assumes it continues to increase at that rate, about 10% per month compounded. XIRR should return something around:

(1 + 10%) ^ 12 - 1 = 2.14%

The actual value using Jan 1 and Feb 1 with a 10% increase: 2.07%.

To calculate the YTD return of my assets, I use this formula where XIRR is the value returned by XIRR:

=(1+XIRR)^YEARFRAC(DATE(YEAR(TODAY()),1,1),TODAY(),1)-1

Quicken is probably similar.
I'm satisfied that Excel formula XIRR calculates an accurate internal rate of return and I know how to calculate the YTD return from the XIRR number and the QUicken number. My issue was with the Quicken report, "Investment Performance", because it's value differs from the Excel value and the performance number that Vanguard calculates monthly. With one exception the Vanguard number and the XIRR number have never varied by more than 1/10 of 1%. Since the Vanguard number is always rounded to 1/10 of 1% the occasional variance with XIRR is probably a few 100th of 1%. It just confounds me that with the exact same inputs the Quicken result is markedly different than the XIRR result.
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