[Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

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FRANK2009
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[Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by FRANK2009 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:11 am

I know that most on this board are total return investors but for those interested in dividend investing, Vanguard plans to introduce two international dividend funds in December.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 47026.html

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happymob
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Re: Two New Vanguard Dividend Funds

Post by happymob » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:21 am

Some (perhaps 20-25% based on Vanguards other international index funds) of the dividends won't be qualified.

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Bustoff
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Re: Two New Vanguard Dividend Funds

Post by Bustoff » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:37 am

Vanguard's research conclusions about shifting equity holdings toward higher-dividend-paying stocks.
What these investors may fail to realize is that moving away from a broadly diversified portfolio and concentrating on certain sectors can potentially result in a less diversified portfolio, increased risk, decreased tax-efficiency (for taxable investors), and/or an increased chance
of falling short of long-term financial goals. On the other hand, as discussed in this paper, a total-return approach potentially offers a number of portfolio benefits, including maintaining diversification, enhancing the portfolio’s tax-efficiency, and increasing the portfolio’s longevity.
Total-return investing: An enduring solution for low yields

:confused

scott_miller
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Re: Two New Vanguard Dividend Funds

Post by scott_miller » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:05 am

Bustoff wrote:Vanguard's research conclusions about shifting equity holdings toward higher-dividend-paying stocks.
What these investors may fail to realize is that moving away from a broadly diversified portfolio and concentrating on certain sectors can potentially result in a less diversified portfolio, increased risk, decreased tax-efficiency (for taxable investors), and/or an increased chance
of falling short of long-term financial goals. On the other hand, as discussed in this paper, a total-return approach potentially offers a number of portfolio benefits, including maintaining diversification, enhancing the portfolio’s tax-efficiency, and increasing the portfolio’s longevity.
Total-return investing: An enduring solution for low yields

:confused
Clearly contradicting themselves there, but overall the argument is for focusing on less diversification. At least that's what I'm getting from this.

LateStarter1975
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Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds

Post by LateStarter1975 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:11 pm

[Thread merged, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

This is for those who are interested in dividend investing...

http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfunds/2 ... s&ru=yahoo
Debt is dangerous...simple is beautiful

Angst
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Re: Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds

Post by Angst » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:50 pm

I'm sure there will be some people interested in these two funds, not me in particular, but I know there are folks here who like their dividends. Here is Vanguard's own announcement:

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insigh ... t-T-092015

tibbitts
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Re: Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds

Post by tibbitts » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:57 pm

So, there are admiral shares of the domestic Div Growth Index, and the international Div. Growth Index, and the international High Div. Index... but NOT the domestic High Div. Index ??? Hopefully somebody will point out that I'm missing something (other than the availability of ETF classes, that is...)

Levett
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Re: Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds

Post by Levett » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:00 pm

It's fad. Gather them assets while ye may.

This is not John Bogle's Vanguard.

Lev

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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:33 pm

FYI - I merged LateStarter1975's thread into here, which is in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum. FRANK2009 was first, but I liked LateStarter1975's title better.
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cfs
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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by cfs » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:43 pm

Thanks for the information.

Thanks for the information, thanks for the links.

I don't see any information on any Front Load purchase fee for the two new funds and that is good news.

Thanks again.
~ Member of the Active Retired Force since 2014 ~

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Taylor Larimore
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"Not John Bogle's Vaguard"

Post by Taylor Larimore » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:45 pm

Levett wrote:It's fad. Gather them assets while ye may.

This is not John Bogle's Vanguard.

Lev
Lev:

I agree. More is less.

Best wishes
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

lack_ey
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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by lack_ey » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:23 pm

I did a quick search and didn't find existing mutual funds in the area with low ERs. There are the usual actively managed suspects. Paying 1% in ERs kind of defeats the purpose if you're looking for yield, but I digress.

For ETFs, SPDR S&P International Dividend (DWX, ER = 0.45%) and PowerShares International Dividend Achievers (PID, ER = 0.54%) date back to 2008 and 2005 though, and each have a hair over $1B in assets.

Vanguard to the rescue with ERs of 0.25% and 0.30%, I guess. I would have guessed they might be a little lower, but these are new funds.

It won't affect me, but I'm sure some people are happy to have cheaper international dividend funds.

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joe8d
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Re: Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds

Post by joe8d » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:10 pm

Levett wrote:It's fad. Gather them assets while ye may.

This is not John Bogle's Vanguard.

Lev
:thumbsup
All the Best, | Joe

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Kalo
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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by Kalo » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:51 pm

Way too expensive for me. I own some VIG, but have often questioned the choice. But it's only about 4% of my total portfolio.

Don't the international countries hold back some of the dividends that would otherwise be paid to shareholders if you are not a comrade or compatriot? So wouldn't it make more sense to go for non-dividend payers on the international side? Just a guess on my part. Correct me if I am wrong.

I am mostly TSM, TISM and short-term bond, and have no desire or plans to change anything.

The only remotely compelling argument I've heard for dividend investing is that it might psychologically allow the investor to hold a higher equity position. But if I were to employ such a device, I would want my payers to be on the domestic side.

I like contemplating the things I can control. Whether dividend payers outperform the broad market is not one of those things. Gaining a guaranteed 15 or 20 basis points in lower expense ratios is.

Kalo
"When people say they have a high risk tolerance, what they really mean is that they are willing to make a lot of money." -- Ben Stein/Phil DeMuth - The Little Book of Bullet Proof Investing.

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Taylor Larimore
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Vanguard's 280 mutual funds.

Post by Taylor Larimore » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:50 am

Bogleheads:

Vanguard managed 280 mutual funds at the end of 2014. In my opinion, this adds cost and confusion within and outside the company.

The vast majority of investors will be best served with a Vanguard Target, LIfeCycle or The Three Fund Portfolio.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

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Fat-Tailed Contagion
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Re: Vanguard's 280 mutual funds.

Post by Fat-Tailed Contagion » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:54 am

Taylor Larimore wrote:Bogleheads:

Vanguard managed 280 mutual funds at the end of 2014. In my opinion, this adds cost and confusion within and outside the company.

The vast majority of investors will be best served with a Vanguard Target, LIfeCycle or The Three Fund Portfolio.

Best wishes.
Taylor
From a selfish standpoint, the higher-cost alternative funds may allow for the lowering of index funds fees. (?)

Although since I believe each fund "stands on its own", this may not be the case at Vanguard.

It may be the case at a place like Fidelity, however.

Any clarification on this issue from those in the know is greatly appreciated!

-FTC
“The intelligent investor is a realist who sells to optimists and buys from pessimists.” | ― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor

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Nicolas
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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by Nicolas » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:03 am

Kalo wrote:Way too expensive for me. I own some VIG, but have often questioned the choice. But it's only about 4% of my total portfolio.

Don't the international countries hold back some of the dividends that would otherwise be paid to shareholders if you are not a comrade or compatriot? So wouldn't it make more sense to go for non-dividend payers on the international side? Just a guess on my part. Correct me if I am wrong.

I am mostly TSM, TISM and short-term bond, and have no desire or plans to change anything.

The only remotely compelling argument I've heard for dividend investing is that it might psychologically allow the investor to hold a higher equity position. But if I were to employ such a device, I would want my payers to be on the domestic side.

I like contemplating the things I can control. Whether dividend payers outperform the broad market is not one of those things. Gaining a guaranteed 15 or 20 basis points in lower expense ratios is.

Kalo
Yes, foreign countries do withhold taxes on the dividends, but if your holdings are in a taxable account you can get it back when you file your US taxes in the form of the foreign tax credit, according to current tax law. Of course if held in a non-taxable retirement account you never get it back.

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JoMoney
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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by JoMoney » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:24 am

Vanguard offers products they believe people want, and that they can offer lower expenses on. Whether or not what people want is the best thing for them is another story.
The markets are full of products out there adding confusion to investing... but at least when Vanguard gets involved the expense on those products start falling.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham


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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:43 pm

^^^ FYI - I moved investorguy1's post into here.
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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by abuss368 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:36 pm

Does Vanguard offer too many funds?

I will say that Dodge & Cox, who were founded in the 1930's, offers 6 funds.

Less is better. Makeup investing simple.
John C. Bogle: "You simply do not need to put your money into 8 different mutual funds!" | | Disclosure: Three Fund Portfolio + U.S. & International REITs

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abuss368
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Re: Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds

Post by abuss368 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:37 pm

Levett wrote:It's fad. Gather them assets while ye may.

This is not John Bogle's Vanguard.

Lev
Hi Lev,

Good point.

Thank you Jack Bogle!
John C. Bogle: "You simply do not need to put your money into 8 different mutual funds!" | | Disclosure: Three Fund Portfolio + U.S. & International REITs

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MossySF
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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by MossySF » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:19 am

Bring them on. More funds gives more options to do tax loss harvesting without messing up your AA for a few months.

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amdmaxx
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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by amdmaxx » Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:17 am

I wonder what how the dividend yield will compare to vym and vig.

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dougger5
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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by dougger5 » Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:48 pm

Not sure if I'll be buying either of these funds myself...but looking at the calendar, December is just about over. Neither one shows up in a search on VG, aside from the initial press release.

Anybody have any updated information? Symbols or such?
"I've been ionized, but I'm okay now." -Buckaroo Banzai

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cfs
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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by cfs » Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:42 pm

dougger5 wrote:Not sure if I'll be buying either of these funds myself...but looking at the calendar, December is just about over. Neither one shows up in a search on VG, aside from the initial press release.

Anybody have any updated information? Symbols or such?
Nothing new, to be launched in "early 2016" here is the article http://www.kiplinger.com/article/invest ... dends.html
~ Member of the Active Retired Force since 2014 ~

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dougger5
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Re: [Vanguard Unveils Two International Dividend Funds]

Post by dougger5 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:51 am

cfs wrote:Nothing new, to be launched in "early 2016" here is the article http://www.kiplinger.com/article/invest ... dends.html
Very well then. Thanks :happy
"I've been ionized, but I'm okay now." -Buckaroo Banzai

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