Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
- Kathleen Ryan
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Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
Being Mr. Bogle's Company has over 3 Trillion dollars under management, has anyone done the math for what his net monetary worth would have been, had he structured his company the way the other mutual fund companies have been structured?
The reason I ask is that I'm going to attend, "The Money Show," held in SF, in July of this year. (I hope I'm not the only Boglehead that will be in attendance.)
If someone should ask me, "What is a Boglehead?" I want to have a succinct, well thought out answer. This is what I plan to say, which I will quote from the introduction from, "The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing" , written by Taylor Larimore, Mel Lindauer, and Michael LeBoeuf.
"To John C. Bogle, founder of The Vanguard Group, A man whom we knew from afar for many years but have since come to know and cherish as a friend. While some mutual fund founders chose to made billions, he chose to make a difference."
I will of course mention Mr. Bogle's wisdom, character, and kindness, and belief in the power of the individual. I will also tell them he, "Leveled the playing field," for the small investor to give them a, "fair shake." I will back this up with a numeric value as to what he could have been worth, as this seems to be the only motivation for doing things, that so many believe is the only thing of importance or value.
Thank you in advance for, Doing the math for me."
The reason I ask is that I'm going to attend, "The Money Show," held in SF, in July of this year. (I hope I'm not the only Boglehead that will be in attendance.)
If someone should ask me, "What is a Boglehead?" I want to have a succinct, well thought out answer. This is what I plan to say, which I will quote from the introduction from, "The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing" , written by Taylor Larimore, Mel Lindauer, and Michael LeBoeuf.
"To John C. Bogle, founder of The Vanguard Group, A man whom we knew from afar for many years but have since come to know and cherish as a friend. While some mutual fund founders chose to made billions, he chose to make a difference."
I will of course mention Mr. Bogle's wisdom, character, and kindness, and belief in the power of the individual. I will also tell them he, "Leveled the playing field," for the small investor to give them a, "fair shake." I will back this up with a numeric value as to what he could have been worth, as this seems to be the only motivation for doing things, that so many believe is the only thing of importance or value.
Thank you in advance for, Doing the math for me."
Last edited by Kathleen Ryan on Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Best wishes, |
Kathleen
Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
Perhaps a fair comparison is Fidelity, with almost $2T AUM. The founding Johnson family has a reported net worth of about $40B.
However, it's almost a certainty that Vanguard wouldn't be as large as it is had Bogle structured it more traditionally.
However, it's almost a certainty that Vanguard wouldn't be as large as it is had Bogle structured it more traditionally.
- Mel Lindauer
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Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
Hi Kathleen:Kathleen Ryan wrote:Being Mr. Bogle's Company has over 3 Trillion dollars under management, has anyone done the math for what his net monetary worth would have been, had he structured his company the way the other mutual fund companies have been structured?
The reason I ask is that I'm going to attend, "The Money Show," held in SF, in July of this year. (I hope I'm not the only Boglehead that will be in attendance.)
If someone should ask me, "What is a Boglehead?" I want to have a succinct, well thought out answer. This is what I plan to say, which I will quote from the introduction from, "The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing" , written by Taylor Larimore, Mel Lindauer, and Michael LeBoeuf.
"To John C. Bogle, founder of The Vanguard Group, A man whom we knew from afar for many years but have since come to know and cherish as a friend. While some mutual fund founders chose to made billions, he chose to make a difference."
I will of course mention Mr. Bogle's wisdom, character, and kindness, and belief in the power of the individual. I will also tell them he, "Leveled the playing field," for the small investor to give them a, "fair shake." I will back this up with a numeric value as to what he could have been worth, as this seems to be the only motivation for doing things, that so many believe is the only thing of importance or value.
Thank you in advance for, Doing the math for me."
It undoubtedly would have been in the 10s of BILLIONS.
Best Regards - Mel |
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Semper Fi
Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
I live and work in the SF area, but is this show worth going to? I thought they were mostly a bunch of FA's trying to sell their services, or big fund companies trying to rope you in.Kathleen Ryan wrote: The reason I ask is that I'm going to attend, "The Money Show," held in SF, in July of this year. (I hope I'm not the only Boglehead that will be in attendance.)
I
In other words, what's at The Money Show for Bogleheads?
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
To be honest, I don't think that really answers the question of 'What is a Boglehead?' as it doesn't tell anyone about Boglehead beliefs, namelyKathleen Ryan wrote:
If someone should ask me, "What is a Boglehead?" I want to have a succinct, well thought out answer. This is what I plan to say, which I will quote from the introduction from, "The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing" , written by Taylor Larimore, Mel Lindauer, and Michael LeBoeuf.
"To John C. Bogle, founder of The Vanguard Group, A man whom we knew from afar for many years but have since come to know and cherish as a friend. While some mutual fund founders chose to made billions, he chose to make a difference."
a: that 'costs matter'
b: that most managers can't beat the market
c: that asset allocation accounts for about 90% of portfolio returns.
(It also sounds sort of like a cult of personality...which isn't a definition I would want to be associated with, personally.)
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
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Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
Yes he basically passed up being a billionaire to do right by the average investor. Really remarkable person.
Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
There's nothing "wrong" with Ned Johnson having done things his way and John Bogle having done things his way.
I know many a happy Fidelity investor. I once was one, but settled on TIAA and Vanguard (happy with them, too).
It's a big world.
No one has cornered the market on virtue.
Lev
I know many a happy Fidelity investor. I once was one, but settled on TIAA and Vanguard (happy with them, too).
It's a big world.
No one has cornered the market on virtue.
Lev
- Archie Sinclair
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Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
Although I have tremendous admiration for Mr. Bogle, I don't think this is completely accurate.
Mr. Bogle didn't have a completely free hand in Vanguard's structure.
Mr. Bogle was fired from Wellington Management Company by his business partners, who controlled a majority on its board of directors. But he persuaded the separate board of directors of the Wellington Mutual Fund that their fund could save money by creating Vanguard to do work that had previously been done by Wellington Management Company.
So Vanguard was never Mr. Bogle's property to give away. Instead, it was the result of a daring boardroom coup. The reason why Vanguard is owned by its investors is that that was Mr. Bogle's sales pitch to the directors of the Wellington Mutual Fund.
Mr. Bogle didn't have a completely free hand in Vanguard's structure.
Mr. Bogle was fired from Wellington Management Company by his business partners, who controlled a majority on its board of directors. But he persuaded the separate board of directors of the Wellington Mutual Fund that their fund could save money by creating Vanguard to do work that had previously been done by Wellington Management Company.
So Vanguard was never Mr. Bogle's property to give away. Instead, it was the result of a daring boardroom coup. The reason why Vanguard is owned by its investors is that that was Mr. Bogle's sales pitch to the directors of the Wellington Mutual Fund.
Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
FWIW, I admire John Bogle not for what personal fortune he might have given up, but for knowing what is "enough." And then writing a book about it.
"Yes, investing is simple. But it is not easy, for it requires discipline, patience, steadfastness, and that most uncommon of all gifts, common sense." ~Jack Bogle
Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
The relationship between Wellington and Vanguard is murky. Wellington let Mr Bogle create a new mutual fund which went on to become Vanguard, but Mr Bogle was still an employee of Wellington and I assume Wellington had (and still has) some stake in Vanguard. After all, he needed their approval to do it and it makes sense that Wellington saw some financial benefit to them to let Bogle create his new index fund. I assume there is still some legal tie between the two. Wellington still provides research services to Vanguard for all their funds. It is not clear at all how Mr Bogle could have reaped a lot of money for himself out of Vanguard if Wellington was only giving him a limited amount of leeway when they let him create Vanguard. No sane company creates a competitor unless it benefits them. There is an interesting story there of how backroom deals are struck in the finance world and who really controls what.Archie Sinclair wrote:Although I have tremendous admiration for Mr. Bogle, I don't think this is completely accurate.
Mr. Bogle didn't have a completely free hand in Vanguard's structure.
Mr. Bogle was fired from Wellington Management Company by his business partners, who controlled a majority on its board of directors. But he persuaded the separate board of directors of the Wellington Mutual Fund that their fund could save money by creating Vanguard to do work that had previously been done by Wellington Management Company.
So Vanguard was never Mr. Bogle's property to give away. Instead, it was the result of a daring boardroom coup. The reason why Vanguard is owned by its investors is that that was Mr. Bogle's sales pitch to the directors of the Wellington Mutual Fund.
Kolea (pron. ko-lay-uh). Golden plover.
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Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
Thank you Jack Bogle!
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
+1Fallible wrote:FWIW, I admire John Bogle not for what personal fortune he might have given up, but for knowing what is "enough." And then writing a book about it.
“The only freedom that is of enduring importance is freedom of intelligence…” John Dewey
Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
+2dewey wrote:+1Fallible wrote:FWIW, I admire John Bogle not for what personal fortune he might have given up, but for knowing what is "enough." And then writing a book about it.
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
And the picture of his office in the latest Forbes magazine is great!
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Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
No, that's just not correct. Don't take my word for it, read the book. http://www.amazon.com/The-House-that-Bo ... 0071749063.TwoByFour wrote:The relationship between Wellington and Vanguard is murky. Wellington let Mr Bogle create a new mutual fund which went on to become Vanguard, but Mr Bogle was still an employee of Wellington and I assume Wellington had (and still has) some stake in Vanguard. After all, he needed their approval to do it and it makes sense that Wellington saw some financial benefit to them to let Bogle create his new index fund. I assume there is still some legal tie between the two. Wellington still provides research services to Vanguard for all their funds. It is not clear at all how Mr Bogle could have reaped a lot of money for himself out of Vanguard if Wellington was only giving him a limited amount of leeway when they let him create Vanguard. No sane company creates a competitor unless it benefits them. There is an interesting story there of how backroom deals are struck in the finance world and who really controls what.Archie Sinclair wrote:Although I have tremendous admiration for Mr. Bogle, I don't think this is completely accurate.
Mr. Bogle didn't have a completely free hand in Vanguard's structure.
Mr. Bogle was fired from Wellington Management Company by his business partners, who controlled a majority on its board of directors. But he persuaded the separate board of directors of the Wellington Mutual Fund that their fund could save money by creating Vanguard to do work that had previously been done by Wellington Management Company.
So Vanguard was never Mr. Bogle's property to give away. Instead, it was the result of a daring boardroom coup. The reason why Vanguard is owned by its investors is that that was Mr. Bogle's sales pitch to the directors of the Wellington Mutual Fund.
Wellington Management Company was opposed to the creation of Vanguard. The separate board of directors of Wellington Mutual Fund supported Mr. Bogle by creating Vanguard. It's as if the board of directors of Fidelity Magellan Fund decided to rebel against Fidelity and create its own mutual fund family.
After Vanguard was created, Wellington Management Company kept a diminished role as adviser to some Vanguard funds.
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Re: Being Mr. Bogle's Company has 3 Trillion Dollars
Bogleheads,
Imagine the yield Mr. Bogle would be receiving on that investment portfolio!
Best.
Imagine the yield Mr. Bogle would be receiving on that investment portfolio!
Best.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."