What's your average ER? [Expense Ratio]

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Seattlenative
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What's your average ER? [Expense Ratio]

Post by Seattlenative » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:17 pm

I've been streamlining positions in my ETF portfolio, and selling off higher-ER holdings and focusing on basic market-cap indexing and aggregate-bond fixed income. I have compiled an Excel spreadsheet of my holdings and dollar amounts, consulted each fund's prospectus for their stated SEC estimate of 1-year and 10-year costs for holding a $10k position, then prorated those costs for the specific dollar value of current positions in each fund.

To my amazement, my average ER for all of my fund positions, prorated for their relative percentage of my AA and excluding my current 9.3% cash position which will be reinvested this week, is now down to just a hair over 0.10%. Of course, this is based on current NAV and so my actual ER could be somewhat higher.

After pruning, here are the highest-priced ERs of my positions, in descending order:
EFV - iShares International Developed Value - 0.40% (this comprises 1.10% of my portfolio)
FNDX - Schwab Fundamental Large Cap Index - 0.32% (this constitutes 1.03% of my portfolio)
SPLV - Powershares S&P Low Volatility Index - 0.25% (this is 2.07% of my portfolio)

The cheapest ETFs I have are SCHB and SCHX - 0.04% (combined these ETFs add up to 7.73% of my portfolio).

So what is the average, AA-weighted ER of your portfolios?

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elgob.bogle
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by elgob.bogle » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:26 pm

I've been able to get min down to .048 overall. Lots of individual TIPS & some CD's (all with no ER) helps to pull down Total US Stock Market (ER = .05) and Total Bond (FXSTX .07). :D

elgob

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baw703916
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by baw703916 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:30 pm

May I suggest a poll for this topic?
Most of my posts assume no behavioral errors.

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avenger
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by avenger » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:36 pm

0.09 average
cheers ... -Mark | "Our life is frittered away with detail. Simplify. Simplify." -Henry David Thoreau | [3 fund portfolio: VTI, VXUS, SV fund (yield 3.01%)]

GoldenFinch
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by GoldenFinch » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:52 pm

.10% :happy

Jack FFR1846
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:55 pm

0.0645%

19.56% of my portfolio is US Savings Bonds.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

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LAlearning
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by LAlearning » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:01 pm

Currently 0.17%, soon to be 0.1%.
I know nothing!

lack_ey
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by lack_ey » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:10 pm

Apparently 0.091%.

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LowER
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by LowER » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:11 pm

Low ER for LowER: 0.055

Topic Author
Seattlenative
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by Seattlenative » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:24 pm

I just used a very basic online Portfolio MER calculator at http://www.squawkfox.com/tools/portfoli ... alculator/. One drawback to their calculator is that it may not work properly with decimal points, I had to round off the percentages to whole numbers although this might be related to my browser security settings.

If you have cash or other asset types in your account (certificates of deposit, Treasury bills, corporate bonds), you would have to deduct those dollar amounts from your total portfolio value. Then you would need mathematically pro-rate your ETF or mutual fund position percentages so that they add up to 100% of the adjusted (ex-cash and other assets) portfolio value.

After all of these calibrations, my Portfolio MER is 0.1106% Thank you, fellow Bogleheads!

livesoft
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by livesoft » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:30 pm

You've scared away all the more normal e.r. folks. I think someone with money in a more normal 401(k) plan may not get below 0.5%.

My portfolio seems to around 0.15% which is about half of what I thought it might be.
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supernova
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by supernova » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:31 pm

.089%

Lucky in that I have brokerage link for my 401k, so I can use Fido's spartan index funds.

This isn't counting my savings bonds, either. If it were, then it would be roughly .075%
Last edited by supernova on Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Toons
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by Toons » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:32 pm

I know it is low :happy
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hoppy08520
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by hoppy08520 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:46 pm

0.13%. It would be cheaper if not for my 401(k) where ~8% of our assets are in 0.35% funds. The rest of the portfolio is at Vanguard and the TSP, thankfully.

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Seattlenative
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by Seattlenative » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:47 pm

LAlearning wrote:Currently 0.17%, soon to be 0.1%.
Using the tool at http://www.squawkfox.com/tools/portfoli ... alculator/ - and per the instructions in my earlier comment - I tried changing three of the higher-priced ETFs to lower-priced ETFs as follows:

FNDX - move allocation to SCHB (cutting ER from 0.32% to 0.04%)
SPLV - move allocation to SCHB (cutting ER from 0.25% to 0.04%)
EFV - move allocation to SCHF (cutting ER from 0.40% to 0.08%)

Of course, FNDX, SPLV and EFV track different indexes than SCHB and SCHF, but I realize this is at the core of Boglehead investing: keep it SIMPLE.

Making those three changes to cut the aggregate ER from 0.1101% to 0.1004%.

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InvestorNewb
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by InvestorNewb » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:49 pm

0.085%
My Portfolio: VTI [US], VXUS [Int'l], VNQ [REIT], VCN [Canada] (largest to smallest)

jeff1949
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by jeff1949 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:00 pm

Morningstar Portfolio says my ER average is 0.09% and this is a rounded off number but still quite low.

This is with a 20% allocation to small value and a 20% tilt towards Emerging Markets.

International is at 40% (half of which is the above mentioned EM).
Last edited by jeff1949 on Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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backpacker
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by backpacker » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:00 pm

I'll pipe up as a "high" ER investor. I have an ER of .34 mostly because my entire portfolio is tilted towards value stocks and small stocks. I'm happy to pay more for higher loadings, especially internationally. :happy

edge
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by edge » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:07 pm

.19

Several of the DFA funds I hold bring up the average.

livesoft
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by livesoft » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:18 pm

Whoa! The bar is being set very low in this thread.
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investor1
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by investor1 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:24 pm

0.025%

90/10 split
0.02% TSM (401k)
0.03% TBM (401k)
0.05% TSM (IRA)

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jhfenton
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by jhfenton » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:30 pm

Our average expense ratio for all of our ETFs and mutual funds is 0.29%.

If you exclude my wife's 401(k) and my HSA, the average for our taxable, Roth, IRA accounts, and my 401(k) is 0.13% (all Vanguard) ranging from 0.09% for VEA (FTSE Dev Mkts) and VMVAX (Mid Cap Value Index Admiral) to 0.19% of VSS (FTSE ex-US Sm Cap). That's 0.13% for all small-cap, mid-cap, international large and small, and emerging markets.

I do what I can with my wife's 401(k). Most of it is SNXFX (Schwab 1000 Index) at 0.29%, the lowest by far in her 401(k). For better or worse, my wife's been at her job 15 years, so her 401(k) is 40% of our retirement portfolio.

My HSA, other than some cash, is entirely in DODFX (Dodge & Cox International) at 0.64%. It's the best choice I have among the investment options. It's about as good as you get for an actively managed international fund, but I'd swap it for VEA in a heart beat.

N52570
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by N52570 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:43 pm

My latest iteration with all the tilting, here and abroad, and then some REIT, according to Morningstar is .11%
And lower than I would have thought.
"Nobody knows nothing"! Raymond

gkaplan
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by gkaplan » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:45 pm

My weighted average ER is 0.109%. If I were to rebalance to my target allocation, my weighted average ER would be 0.117%.
Gordon

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LowER
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by LowER » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:47 pm

investor1 wrote:0.025%

90/10 split
0.02% TSM (401k)
0.03% TBM (401k)
0.05% TSM (IRA)
Hats off to you!

I might have to change my username to LowishER or WannabeLowER or HalfA$$LowER, though I'm less than half way to your holy random grail...

How have you pulled that off, more specifically than your prior post denotes? If you care to share. PM if that helps.

Thanks

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iceport
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by iceport » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:50 pm

Weighted average ER = 0.114%.

And that's including the 0.10% TPA fee added to all holdings in my employer's defined contribution plan — applied to roughly 47% of the portfolio.
"Discipline matters more than allocation.” ─William Bernstein

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iceport
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by iceport » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:53 pm

LowER wrote:
investor1 wrote:0.025%

90/10 split
0.02% TSM (401k)
0.03% TBM (401k)
0.05% TSM (IRA)
Hats off to you!

I might have to change my username to LowishER or WannabeLowER or HalfA$$LowER, though I'm less than half way to your holy random grail...
:D
"Discipline matters more than allocation.” ─William Bernstein

investor1
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by investor1 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:54 pm

^ Ha! When I saw your screen name as the latest reply on the home page, I thought, "I wonder if I'm lower than LowER."

My employer offers a 401k that have CITs. I don't currently have any international, but I've thought about adding it. IIRC, it is around 0.1%. Then there are REITs for roughly 0.15%ish that I'm not certain I even want. To put it simply, I have a two fund portfolio that consists of very low cost CITs and a VG mutual fund.

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zaboomafoozarg
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:01 pm

.09%, last time I checked. My 401k has index funds with really low ERs which helps quite a bit.

dmac84
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by dmac84 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:04 pm

In my fidelity 401k its 0.0585%

2 Spartan funds and 1 vanguard

RetiredinKaty
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by RetiredinKaty » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:06 pm

0.09%. Now if I just do better at leaving it be!

supernova
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by supernova » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:22 pm

This thread has made me realize how "high" the ERs are on international indexes.

VTIAX: .14%
FSGDX: .18%

I was thinking they were lower for some reason

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TX_TURTLE
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by TX_TURTLE » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:30 pm

I'm impressed by the prior replies. My average is 0.12%, for both retirement and non retirement. I thought it was low... had to change my mind.

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FreeAtLast
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by FreeAtLast » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:34 pm

Average ER is 0.115% for all of my funds (taxable and tIRA). I'll live with it for now.
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853211
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by 853211 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:36 pm

0.167 - Wife's 401a has been the drag but the new CREF rates should knock a few more %'s off of it.

I was fortunate enough to consolidate everything else at a past employee where all the major funds were in the .02 - .05 range.

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Rob5TCP
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by Rob5TCP » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:43 pm

I thought my exp ratios were low - everywhere but here they would be considered close to rock bottom.
MY current is .19% which is down almost a full % point from what it was 10 years ago (Janus and Fidelity). Even 5 years ago I was closer to .45/.4

ShiftF5
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by ShiftF5 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:21 pm

Another vote for .09

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pennstater2005
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by pennstater2005 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:31 pm

LS Growth = .17%
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sheetzilla
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by sheetzilla » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:32 pm

I thought I was doing pretty well also. My portfolio ER is 0.35%.

I've been pretty aggressively chasing it down for the last year or so (it was 0.43% about 10 months ago).

This includes my 403b which has an underlying "Administrative Fees" of 0.28% (then the fund ERs on top of that). The funds available are very reasonable (Vanguard TBM Admiral, Fidelity Spartan), but the .28% supposedly goes to cover fund expenses. Is that normal?

I've also got some very old PEXMX at .50 that's got so much capital gains built up I don't think I'll ever be able to sell it. I did turn DRIP off on that one though.

Now you guys have got me thinking that I can do better. Thanks!

DFrank
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by DFrank » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:52 pm

Mine is 0.17%. Working on getting it lower, but doing so will require realizing some cap gains that I've been reluctant to take all at once.
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Dale_G
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by Dale_G » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:12 pm

0.080 - My emerging market bonds keep me from getting any lower.
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TradingPlaces
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by TradingPlaces » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:32 pm

Across several 401Ks (self and spouses current and previous jobs): all under 0.07%, as most of the funds are fido and vang, with highest er being 0.07%.

RandomPointer
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by RandomPointer » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:46 pm

0.07%

The lowest ER is VIIIX (0.02%) and the highest one is VGTSX (0.22%).

WL2034
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by WL2034 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:58 pm

Approximately 0.09%, weighted.

scotthal
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by scotthal » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:14 am

Portfolio average is 0.19%; individual holdings range from 0.05% (VTSAX) to 0.63% (LSBDX).
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FrugalFrida
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by FrugalFrida » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:23 am

0.16% - Thanks to my global stock index fund was lowered to ER 0.20% this year :greedy

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MossySF
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by MossySF » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:42 am

0.34% ... to represent the "high" expense Bogleheaders.

red5
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by red5 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:16 am

.087%

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Uncle Pennybags
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by Uncle Pennybags » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:08 am

0.12%, the international stock and managed short term bond funds bring it up.

madbrain
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Re: What's your average ER?

Post by madbrain » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:05 am

0.15% . It would be much less if not for the 0.31% ER on my 401k stable value fund.

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