livesoft wrote: JonnyDVM wrote:
livesoft wrote:@JonnyDVM, It is relatively rare to have hundreds of thousands of dollars of loans for an undergraduate degree, but perhaps you meant in aggregrate. My son's college education (4 year degree) will not cost 6-figures.
I was alluding more to 4 years at public university then graduate school but four years at a state school with room and board is easily 40-50k. A private school or out of state tuition? Forget about it. I think you would be surprised at how many people are walking around (or on track to be walking around) with 200k+ worth of student debt. A very disturbing trend that will limit ones ability to get a mortgage and save for retirement.
I'm sorry, but your numbers are so off the wall, that I have to respond. Here's a web site to look at: http://projectonstudentdebt.org/state_by_state-data.php
with real data.
Average student loan debt is under $30,000 per person and no where near 6-figures. Yes, 4 years at a state school with room and board is more than 40-50k. It is probably about $80K to $100K for all those 4 years combined. See the web site I just linked. I am paying for 2 young adults at universities at this moment. I know how much college costs.
I would definitely be surprised at how many people are walking around with $200K+ worth of student debt. They would be very uncommon. Perhaps you can start a poll here to show that. You and your friends may have lots of debt, but I think you would be rare.
I’m not exactly sure what we’re arguing about but since I have some down time at work and have an interest in the subject I’ll post again. My 40-50k thrown out estimate did not consider room and board. Obviously that is a pretty necessary part of the educational process. I looked up a few schools to see exactly where we are at with college costs. Ohio State University estimates tuition + room and board at $21,700 for this academic year. My Alma mater Miami University $24,600. Figure a slight increase annually and 80k -100k for an undergraduate education at public school is about right. That IN STATE TUITION! How about a private school? Emory University estimates the cost this year for tuition and room and board at $57,700
. Obviously four year will run over 200K.
What if your kid is driven and wants to go to professional school after? The Ohio State College of Medicine has an estimated cost of about 50K this year (in state). Do you think people are walking around with a lot of loans? In my class (DVM 2008) maybe 1/3 of the class didn’t have to take out any loans. The rest of us ended up at around $150k. That was back when tuition and interest rates were jumping. My wife graduated two years later from medical school with 165k all at 6.8%. That was even with quite a bit of generosity from her parents. Tuition has continued to increase since then. My friends? Yes they do have quite a bit of debt. Off the top of my head. $250k (MD U-Mass), $300k (MD Missouri), one couple with > 500k (MD’s Geoprgetown), another couple (DVM’s Ohio state + some undergrad ~350k). Three other DVM’s that I know also about $150k. A few of our friends had parents pay their entire private school undergrad education and medical school education. So they have quite the head start when it comes to savings. Pretty much anyone that recently attended, or is currently attending, professional school without wealthy parents has significant student debt.
Why don’t I do a poll? Unfortunately, most with professional degrees are pretty financially incapable. I wouldn’t expect a ton of young professionals perusing this site. That would be like polling how many people shop at Costco. I think the poll results would be a little skewed. I have a little interest in finance and like most everyone else on this site prefer to "do it myself". Most of my MD friends have financial people constantly harassing them trying to take advantage of them. I recently had to throw myself in front of one of my golfing companion who was about to get talked into a whole life policy by his trusted advisor.
I guess the greater question is why should anyone on this site care? It’s not their debt. Here’s the thing- Right now there are financial experts walking into professional schools like my Alma mater and lecturing students that their only possible means of survival with their tuition payments is through PSLF(Public student loan forgiveness or IBR (Income based repayment). If you are not familiar with these programs basically for PSLF you pay a minimal amount work in some sort of public service for 10 years and your debt is wiped out. IBR you pay a small amount based on your income for 25 years and then your balance is forgiven. There are a lot of people coming out of professional school doing this. I recently worked with a guy who told me without IBR he wouldn't be able to eat. His compulsory loan payment would be just under his net pay. WCI posted a blog about the moral hazard of borrowing 600k of government and having no incentive to pay it back and immediately got attacked by several commenters for just pointing out how absurd this whole concept is. This is a lot of our tax money at stake here.
So who’s taking advantage of 529’s? Probably my friends whose parents picked up their entire tuition used them. I’ll use them. What about kids from the middle class? Sorry they are SOL. They get to enjoy a lifetime of crushing student debt burden. The system as currently constructed cannot continue.
Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple. -Dr. Seuss