What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

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livesoft
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by livesoft » Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:14 pm

The net contribs/withdraws from our portfolio so far in 2015 is 0.1% of portfolio value going in. I think I need to increase my consumption of sushi and chocolate.

It is a little bit off-topic, but in 2015 we had no mortgage payments, no property tax payments, no state income tax payments, very minor charitable contributions (we are using a DAF funded in 2014 for our big charitable contributions), virtually no federal income tax payments, so our expenses are quite low. I contributed 100% of my earned income (less half of my FICA taxes) to my 401(k) and my spouse contributed the max to hers as well. We withdrew money for college expenses. And though we maxed out Roth contributions, the money came from dividends paid by our taxable investments so from within the portfolio.

The rest of our meager expenses were paid by my spouse's paychecks. We will be in the 15% marginal income tax bracket for 2015.

Maybe we should start a Mr. Money Livesoft blog?
Last edited by livesoft on Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by longinvest » Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:26 pm

livesoft wrote:The net contribs/withdraws from our portfolio so far in 2015 is 0.1% of portfolio value going in. I think I need to increase my consumption of sushi and chocolate.

Yes. More chocolate, always a good thing. :happy (There's now way for your internal and time-weighted returns to differ with such low cash flows in/out of portfolio).
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travellight
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by travellight » Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:44 pm

^Thanks Taylor! I think I am reading the data wrong. The fund name is VITPX but that looks to be up 4.4% at 1 year; I am not sure why my personal performance in that fund is reading as negative 7.8%. These are my holdings:

Vanguard Total Bond Market Idx InstlPls VBMPX 0% current alloc 11.96% net alloc
Vanguard Wellington Admiral VWENX 30% 35.07%
Vanguard Instl Ttl Stk Mkt Idx InstlPls VITPX 40% 30.01%
Vanguard PRIMECAP Adm VPMAX 20% 3.97%
Vanguard International Growth Adm VWILX 10% 18.99%

I think I am misreading the my personal rate of return chart. I am down 6.25% last quarter.

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Taylor Larimore
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Post by Taylor Larimore » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:03 pm

Travellight:

All my funds are with Vanguard. I check my balance on-line a few times a year, primarily for mistakes or fraud (never found any). We get what the market gives.

Time is too precious for me to spend time with spreadsheets and such. I'd rather spend it with family, friends, the Boglehead forum, and sailing. :sharebeer

Best wishes.
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Last edited by Taylor Larimore on Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GoldenFinch
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by GoldenFinch » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:08 pm

Some days up one or two percent and some days down a percent or at zero. Very dull. Would be doing better if I had never bought emerging markets which I think I've had since 2002.

I keep putting money in so my general trend is up. :happy

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by hornet96 » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:18 pm

livesoft wrote:Maybe we should start a Mr. Money Livesoft blog?


I know I would subscribe to this. Then again, I don't think it would be possible to "read every post since the beginning of time," given your prolific posting habits. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/all-the- ... g-of-time/

Then again, how can we be sure that you aren't MMM himself? :shock:

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by GoldenFinch » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:18 pm

livesoft wrote:The net contribs/withdraws from our portfolio so far in 2015 is 0.1% of portfolio value going in. I think I need to increase my consumption of sushi and chocolate.

It is a little bit off-topic, but in 2015 we had no mortgage payments, no property tax payments, no state income tax payments, very minor charitable contributions (we are using a DAF funded in 2014 for our big charitable contributions), virtually no federal income tax payments, so our expenses are quite low. I contributed 100% of my earned income (less half of my FICA taxes) to my 401(k) and my spouse contributed the max to hers as well. We withdrew money for college expenses. And though we maxed out Roth contributions, the money came from dividends paid by our taxable investments so from within the portfolio.

The rest of our meager expenses were paid by my spouse's paychecks. We will be in the 15% marginal income tax bracket for 2015.

Maybe we should start a Mr. Money Livesoft blog?


How do you have no property tax payments? I know you have said you live in a house, so do tell! Did you pay the taxes last year? If so, won't you pay next year's taxes this year? How does this help?

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by livesoft » Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:48 am

GoldenFinch wrote:How do you have no property tax payments? I know you have said you live in a house, so do tell! Did you pay the taxes last year? If so, won't you pay next year's taxes this year? How does this help?

Yes, you got it. I bunch things that go on Form 1040 Schedule A into every other year. 2015 is a year we take the standard deduction, so we try to avoid all Schedule A deduction things this year. How does this help? It saves about a $1000 in taxes on an annual basis in our tax bracket (and more in a higher tax bracket).
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GoldenFinch
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by GoldenFinch » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:39 am

livesoft wrote:
GoldenFinch wrote:How do you have no property tax payments? I know you have said you live in a house, so do tell! Did you pay the taxes last year? If so, won't you pay next year's taxes this year? How does this help?

Yes, you got it. I bunch things that go on Form 1040 Schedule A into every other year. 2015 is a year we take the standard deduction, so we try to avoid all Schedule A deduction things this year. How does this help? It saves about a $1000 in taxes on an annual basis in our tax bracket (and more in a higher tax bracket).


Interesting! Thanks.

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by travellight » Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:30 pm

"It is a little bit off-topic, but in 2015 we had no mortgage payments, no property tax payments, no state income tax payments, very minor charitable contributions (we are using a DAF funded in 2014 for our big charitable contributions), virtually no federal income tax payments, so our expenses are quite low."

It seems like there are two approaches/strategies for retirement: minimize expenses and lower taxes or maximize income and suffer the taxes. I don't know how to get both: maximize income and minimize taxes. I will have a pension so will automatically always stay in the highest federal income tax bracket. I can retire in a state with no income tax to limit the damages but it would be difficult to get into the 15% tax bracket.

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by travellight » Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:33 pm

"Time is too precious for me to spend time with spreadsheets and such. I'd rather spend it with family, friends, the Boglehead forum, and sailing."

Same here, Taylor.... I rarely look at that account, and it appears I barely understand the spreadsheets, lol. I put it all into Vanguard funds in the allocations that seem best to me and forget about it. I trust it will all work out long term based on my initial research in choosing them.

Best wishes to you too!

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Taylor Larimore
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Taylor Larimore » Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:55 pm

I rarely look at that account, and it appears I barely understand the spreadsheets, lol. I put it all into Vanguard funds in the allocations that seem best to me and forget about it.

Travellight:

"The less you fool with your portfolio, the less often you'll play the fool."
-- Jason Zweig, author and Wall Street Journal columnist


Congratulations and best wishes.
Taylor
Last edited by Taylor Larimore on Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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livesoft
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by livesoft » Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:09 pm

travellight wrote:I don't know how to get both: maximize income and minimize taxes.

Tax-exempt muni bond income and HUGE Roth IRA accounts. :)
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by cfs » Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:38 pm

Keep the conversation going.

Good information. Yes, we know that the year is not over until it is over, but so far my boring SWAN or sleep well at night portfolio is ITB or in the black. Bucket 1 (taxable, all munis) is ITB; Bucket 2 (subject to RMD, taxable bonds and equities) is ITB; Bucket 3 (Roth, all equities) is ITB. I have a very "basic" spreadsheet to keep track of the portfolio "growth." The balance at the end of the year is the one that counts. We continue to add money to our SWAN every other Friday, no withdrawals yet, I plan to use the TLW method when withdrawals needed. You have a Feliz Navidad.
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by travellight » Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:40 pm

"Tax-exempt muni bond income and HUGE Roth IRA accounts."
(btw, sorry.... I still can't seem to get the quote function to work right for me, or add the name)

I'll have to look into the first; the second is limited.... I can only contribute $6500 per year, no? Hard to get to huge with that! I have done the back door Roth conversion (learned it here at Bogleheads! thanks!), but it is not huge. How do you get to huge?!

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by livesoft » Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:47 pm

If one is living off of tax-exempt muni bond income, then one can convert quite of bit of tax-deferred assets to Roth IRA each year without paying taxes on the conversion. If one wishes to pay 15% tax on part of the conversion, then the possible conversion amounts could go way up.

You wrote that you have a huge pension, so you are doomed to pay income taxes unless you can donate most all your pension income to charity.
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travellight
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by travellight » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:29 pm

^well, define huge. It looks bigger now that you use the word than when I used the word, lol. It's 33% tax bracket pension income, not million dollar huge.

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by livesoft » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:36 pm

huge is anything in the 33% tax bracket or higher. We were last in the 33% tax bracket in 2006. It's been all downhill since.

Consider this: What would the size of one's portfolio have to be to give one the annual after-tax value of your pension if the portfolio was allocated 60/40?
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:34 pm

It's time for my annual rebalancing and net worth updates. Now I can look at the results.

My composite YTD for all of my retirement investment accounts is... +0.13%
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:51 pm

livesoft wrote:Maybe we should start a Mr. Money Livesoft blog?


I would read that blog :D

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:06 pm

My 401k provider says the YTD RoR is -1.20%. I'm too lazy to calculate it for my whole portfolio, but since my 401k contains most of the asset classes it's probably somewhere right around -1%.

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cfs
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by cfs » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:58 pm

My composite YTD for all of my retirement investment accounts is... +0.13%
Shipmate Lady Geek, your +0.13% may go up in the next three days.

This is what I wrote on 12/31/2014 (Wow!):
cfs wrote:Good year unless . . .
Well shipmates, what can we say, unless you were 100% in Vanguard Energy or 100% in Vanguard Precious Metals you had a good year. Now give yourself a pad on the back. Maintain constant course and speed . . . steady as she goes.

No good news for Energy and Precious Metals for a couple of years . . . best days are ahead for Energy and Precious Metals investors.

Wishing all my shipmates a productive 2016.
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Sheepdog » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:56 am

LadyGeek wrote:It's time for my annual rebalancing and net worth updates. Now I can look at the results.

My composite YTD for all of my retirement investment accounts is... +0.13%

Lady Geek,
Here we go again, but to be updated after 12/31 surely. My composite YTD for all of my retirement investment accounts is...."drum rooollllll"........+1.80%. However, if I hid my 2000-02 I Bonds it would be +1.34%.
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by cfs » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:15 pm

Sheepdog wrote: . . . My composite YTD for all of my retirement investment accounts is...."drum rooollllll"........+1.80% . . .

Congratulations to our shipmates Sheepdog (and Lady Geek), both are ITB or in the black, beating a bunch of Vanguard managers.

Wishing everyone a productive Wall Street's Window Dressing Final Three Days.
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Seattlenative » Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:35 pm

Through market close last night, my combined YTD retirement account assets between TD Ameritrade and Wellstrade are ITB 1.44%.

It's ironic that when we moved our IRAs from Schwab to TD Ameritrade, I sold almost all of my Schwab ETF positions at a time when the market was up. I think that my inadvertent "market timing" with the Schwab ETFs, purchasing similar Vanguard and iShares positions commission-free at TDA using a slow dollar-cost averaging approach, is the reason I'm actually up slightly YTD. My Wellstrade IRAs are actually down 0.15% YTD.

Note also that I deducted the small but significant "bump" in valuation from the generous TDA new-account bonuses received in the IRAs.

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by cfs » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:24 pm

Seattlenative wrote:Through market close last night, my combined YTD retirement account assets between TD Ameritrade and Wellstrade are ITB 1.44%. . . .

Good to see our shipmate Seattlenative ITB or in the black! What a different a year makes, today a bunch of mutual fund managers are wishing for "a productive Wall Street's Window Dressing Final Three Days" to push them over the hump for the calendar year. Wishing everyone a productive 2016.
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by longinvest » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:43 pm

cfs wrote:
Sheepdog wrote: . . . My composite YTD for all of my retirement investment accounts is...."drum rooollllll"........+1.80% . . .

Congratulations to our shipmates Sheepdog (and Lady Geek), both are ITB or in the black, beating a bunch of Vanguard managers.

Shipmate Cfs,

I would be careful before distributing prizes. I would only agree that LadyGeek and Sheepdog "beat" Vanguard managers if they reported time-weighted returns. I suspect that they reported their portfolio's money-weighted return (XIRR), which is not a return comparable to the return of another portfolio or fund.

In any case, I do not think that it should be the objective of Bogleheads to beat the performance of other portfolios or funds. Instead, I think that their objective should be to reach their financial objectives without taking undue risk.
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by cfs » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:59 pm

longinvest wrote:
cfs wrote:
Sheepdog wrote: . . . My composite YTD for all of my retirement investment accounts is...."drum rooollllll"........+1.80% . . .

Congratulations to our shipmates Sheepdog (and Lady Geek), both are ITB or in the black, beating a bunch of Vanguard managers.

Shipmate Cfs,

I would be careful before distributing prizes. I would only agree that LadyGeek and Sheepdog "beat" Vanguard managers if they reported time-weighted returns. I suspect that they reported their portfolio's money-weighted return (XIRR), which is not a return comparable to the return of another portfolio or fund.

In any case, I do not think that it should be the objective of Bogleheads to beat the performance of other portfolios or funds. Instead, I think that their objective should be to reach their financial objectives without taking undue risk.

You are missing the point, we cfs is just having fun--life is too short.
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by peppers » Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:10 pm

Barring any financial Armageddon, we are currently up 1.35%

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by quantAndHold » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:04 pm

About even for the year. I got a large lump sum early in the year that sat in cash for several months while I was too busy living life to do anything more than just look at the large number of digits on the checking account statements.

Looking at how the various markets did for the year, I suspect it wouldn't have mattered one way or the other whether I did anything with it or not.

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by selftalk » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:20 pm

I don`t care now. Doesn`t the title of this thread violate the don`t peek rule as advised by John Bogle ? This website I thought was created to teach others about how to increase their wealth through investing in the stock and bond markets via the long term. The title of this thread to me encourages others to experience fear and greed, encourage trading (switching allocations) and to alter their well thought out financial maps for the future. In the latest John Bogle interview via Morningstar as listed on a response on this website, Mr. Bogle stated to not look at your statements for 45 years and then open the envelope and be greatly surprised. No one knows the best or close to the perfect future allocation for any point in time. Since it`s been presented so many times the most prudent way to invest, then why do so many people try to reinvent the wheel again. If professionals, who are trained and who work at this full time, cannot beat the averages rather consistently then why do the non-professionals continue trying ? After all Mr. Bogle said that 90% of the trading today was by institutions.

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by livesoft » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:46 pm

selftalk wrote: The title of this thread to me encourages others to experience fear and greed, encourage trading (switching allocations) and to alter their well thought out financial maps for the future.

I think I am one of many to whom the thread title has no such effect.

I have other problems with this thread, but I certainly don't think it encourages others to trade, etc.
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Seattlenative » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:57 pm

livesoft wrote:
selftalk wrote: The title of this thread to me encourages others to experience fear and greed, encourage trading (switching allocations) and to alter their well thought out financial maps for the future.

I think I am one of many to whom the thread title has no such effect.

I have other problems with this thread, but I certainly don't think it encourages others to trade, etc.


All good points. Old habits ("peeking") die hard, though I no longer log in to my accounts each and every day like I once did.. Like others, I simply want to know if my returns are meeting the market, not "beating" the market. Thanks to all for reminding us to "stay the course".

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:45 pm

I've completely revamped my portfolio mid-year, so return/allocation not really relevant.

I am surprised by many of the returns posted (with limited bonds) given the the Total US stock and Total Intl returns YTD. Maybe optimistic calculators? lol

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by livesoft » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:53 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:I am surprised by many of the returns posted (with limited bonds) given the the Total US stock and Total Intl returns YTD. Maybe optimistic calculators? lol

I am not surprised at all. I can leave out all my "bad" accounts or I can cherry pick my "good" account or I can Beardstown the whole thing. But the thread title is "What are you up YTD?" and does not set the parameters for the calculation. For instance, my son contributed for the 2nd year in his life to his Roth IRA. Technically, the account (his only one) has more than doubled in value, so he is "up" more than 100%. :)
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:45 pm

livesoft wrote:
michaeljc70 wrote:I am surprised by many of the returns posted (with limited bonds) given the the Total US stock and Total Intl returns YTD. Maybe optimistic calculators? lol

I am not surprised at all. I can leave out all my "bad" accounts or I can cherry pick my "good" account or I can Beardstown the whole thing. But the thread title is "What are you up YTD?" and does not set the parameters for the calculation. For instance, my son contributed for the 2nd year in his life to his Roth IRA. Technically, the account (his only one) has more than doubled in value, so he is "up" more than 100%. :)


I don't think anyone construes being up including contributions as gains. Up YTD means investment performance, not adding new capital. I don't think there is much leadway. IRR...

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by TheTimeLord » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:59 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
livesoft wrote:
michaeljc70 wrote:I am surprised by many of the returns posted (with limited bonds) given the the Total US stock and Total Intl returns YTD. Maybe optimistic calculators? lol

I am not surprised at all. I can leave out all my "bad" accounts or I can cherry pick my "good" account or I can Beardstown the whole thing. But the thread title is "What are you up YTD?" and does not set the parameters for the calculation. For instance, my son contributed for the 2nd year in his life to his Roth IRA. Technically, the account (his only one) has more than doubled in value, so he is "up" more than 100%. :)


I don't think anyone construes being up including contributions as gains. Up YTD means investment performance, not adding new capital. I don't think there is much leadway. IRR...


Livesoft is right, I include contributions as do some others. I am a Boglehead so I just take what the market gives why calculate a IRR.I just care about how many more (or less) dollars I have in my accounts. Not like the funds are going to repeat the exact same performances year after year.
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by boglesmind » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:38 am

My combined portfolio (including 7% cash) shows an IRR of 1.91% as of 12/30, according to Quicken and roughly matches what vanguard shows as the YTD (including a couple of external accounts). The 1.91% doesn't include additional investments during the year (treated as principal). Total portfolio growth is 14% including investments during the year.

Quicken does a good job of calculating IRR and Vanguard YTD shows net additions/withdrawals separately from investment gains.

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by AlohaJoe » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:49 am

My spreadsheet say 124.71% YTD but most of that is due to a single stock (a former employer that I am slowly diversifying away from), so not really actionable for anyone else...

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by stainlessworks » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:40 am

9.8% YTD

(95% Stocks, 5% Bonds)

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by Seattlenative » Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:07 am

michaeljc70 wrote:
livesoft wrote:
michaeljc70 wrote:I am surprised by many of the returns posted (with limited bonds) given the the Total US stock and Total Intl returns YTD. Maybe optimistic calculators? lol
I am not surprised at all. I can leave out all my "bad" accounts or I can cherry pick my "good" account or I can Beardstown the whole thing. But the thread title is "What are you up YTD?" and does not set the parameters for the calculation. For instance, my son contributed for the 2nd year in his life to his Roth IRA. Technically, the account (his only one) has more than doubled in value, so he is "up" more than 100%. :)
I don't think anyone construes being up including contributions as gains. Up YTD means investment performance, not adding new capital. I don't think there is much leadway. IRR...
My quoted results are limited to my four IRAs. For purposes of determining YTD account performance, my annual IRA contribution is added to the beginning-of-the-year starting balance, even though I did not make the actual contribution until six weeks after January 1st. "New capital" deposited into an IRA is therefore not showing as an investment gain. I also deducted some new-account bonuses paid into the IRAs by TD Ameritrade.

The results in my IRAs seem to be in line with market performance reported by others during 2015.

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by livesoft » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:06 am

boglesmind wrote:Quicken does a good job of calculating IRR and Vanguard YTD shows net additions/withdrawals separately from investment gains.

While Quicken does a good job of calculating IRR, Quicken will annualize it unless users do the right thing. For instance, if one was up YTD back at the end of June by 5%, many Quicken users would report they were up 10% according to a Quicken IRR calculation. Here on 12/31 there is very little difference between an annualized number and a YTD number since there is only one more day in the year to go as I type this, so this is less of an issue today.

Basically, almost none of the reported numbers in threads like this are trustworthy. Yes, many people do get it right, but enough report some different calculation and include/exclude all kinds of things. I would not be surprised if people with managed accounts have their advisors also do some interesting calculations.

And if you want to know, my portfolio including all cash is trailing a benchmark of Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Growth VSMGX by a smidgeon, so it is down for the year. But you have to wonder if I did the calculation right. :)
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by michaeljc70 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:52 am

TheTimeLord wrote:
michaeljc70 wrote:
livesoft wrote:
michaeljc70 wrote:I am surprised by many of the returns posted (with limited bonds) given the the Total US stock and Total Intl returns YTD. Maybe optimistic calculators? lol

I am not surprised at all. I can leave out all my "bad" accounts or I can cherry pick my "good" account or I can Beardstown the whole thing. But the thread title is "What are you up YTD?" and does not set the parameters for the calculation. For instance, my son contributed for the 2nd year in his life to his Roth IRA. Technically, the account (his only one) has more than doubled in value, so he is "up" more than 100%. :)


I don't think anyone construes being up including contributions as gains. Up YTD means investment performance, not adding new capital. I don't think there is much leadway. IRR...


Livesoft is right, I include contributions as do some others. I am a Boglehead so I just take what the market gives why calculate a IRR.I just care about how many more (or less) dollars I have in my accounts. Not like the funds are going to repeat the exact same performances year after year.


I assumed the purpose of this thread was for comparison of your return/asset allocation. You cannot compare apples (investment performance) and oranges (contributions). Including contributions, if I have $100 in my account and add $200 I am "up" 200%. Someone that had $5 million and added $50k is "up" 1% (assuming investment performance was flat which it was for most equity indexes).

Further, if you are retired and drawing funds, do you report that you were down 6% because you drew 4% and the investments were down 2%?

Aside from this thread, if you aren't in index funds, you need to know the performance of your portfolio to compare it to the relevant benchmarks.

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by livesoft » Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:57 am

michaeljc70 wrote:Aside from this thread, if you aren't in index funds, you need to know the performance of your portfolio to compare it to the relevant benchmarks.

Actually, suppose you only invest in index funds. But on August 25, 2015, you panic become concerned and sell your Total Stock Market Index fund. Then on 11/03/2015 you decide that equities are going up again and it is safe to re-buy all that TSM you sold. If you do this kind of thing once or twice a year with your index funds, then you cannot expect to come close to the relevant benchmarks, but if you don't check you will not appreciate how badly your behavior affected your portfolio. And that's despite using only index funds.

Or it can be more subtle. We know the Vanguard LifeStrategy and Target Retirement funds use index funds and rebalance. If you didn't rebalance into equities on August 25, 2015 and the managers of the Vanguard funds did, then are you going to get the same returns that these funds of funds achieved? You might assume so, but if you don't check, how do you know?
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by TheTimeLord » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:48 am

michaeljc70 wrote:I assumed the purpose of this thread was for comparison of your return/asset allocation. ................................................................................................
Aside from this thread, if you aren't in index funds, you need to know the performance of your portfolio to compare it to the relevant benchmarks.


First the whole Boglehead mantra is buy and hold index funds in an AA that suits your risk tolerance. What difference does it make how a certain asset allocation performed in a single year, especially if that allocation isn't appropriate for you? If that is interesting to you could just take a bunch of standard 3 and 4 fund portfolio allocations and post how they have done YTD. From everything I understand your return in a given year is basically considered a random event owing nothing to your skill and everything to your discipline. Unless you feel you are able to divine the future better than others by making specific moves you are a ship peacefully floating on a river waiting to see what the next port is, the river will go where it will go all you can do is run the boat aground. The beauty of the Boglehead philosophy is you are only trying to control things you can, like deposits, withdrawals and allocations instead of things you can't like the ebbs and flows of the market. Remember returns and backward looking and in a Boglehead universe the lesson you usually learn from looking backwards is persistence and discipline pays and panic and trying to time the market doesn't.
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by TravelforFun » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:56 am

I'm 80% stock and up nearly 3% this year.

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by JimmyD » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:01 am

Down a little less than 1% in some accounts and up a little less than 1% in others. Looks like a flat year, all in all.

I gave up on trying to figure out my actual total portfolio performance across accounts. To me, it's not worth the trouble.

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by scone » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:03 am

I got a whole lotta nuthin'. Maybe just a smidge up, but you'd need a high powered microscope to see it. Still staying the course, saving like a crazed squirrel, yada yada yada. :D
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siamond
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by siamond » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:41 am

Shoot, I was hoping that the very last day would bring me back to the black ink, but it doesn't look that way... Oh well, 2016 will be better, right? :beer

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Post by aaronb » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:45 am

I'm down something like 1.1%, using the simplified calculation of (final value - contributions - starting value) / starting value.

Here's the year-end allocation (plan % in parentheses) that led to this result:

US tot stock mkt 43% (should be 41%)
US sm cap tilt 7% (7%)
US REIT tilt 5% (5%)
International stock mkt 15% (19%)
International sm cap tilt 5% (5%)
International emerg mkts tilt 4% (3%)
US bond index 17% (15%)
US int-term treas tilt 5% (5%)

I thought that the tilts were what kept me from having a worse year, but they're really a mixed bag. Was nicely up for REIT, down for US small cap, way down for emerging mkts, and surprisingly up for int small cap (aside from a poorly timed sale and repurchase during a simplification plan I changed mid-stream).

If I had simplified down to the good old 3-fund approach at 53 US / 27 Int / 20 US Bond, looks like I might have only been down about 0.5%. I've stuck with the tilts because I'm a tinkerer at heart, but, but...

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