What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
cusetownusa
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby cusetownusa » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:51 am

for those that have all their money at Vanguard are you just calculating your personal return number yourself? Looks like Vanguard's personal return number is still as if the end of November for me and I am too lazy to calculate it on my own.

wk522
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby wk522 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:44 am

52 YO still in accumulation phase

AA 72/28 With the Bond allocation split evenly between Muni and taxable bonds

Up 9.18% in 2016.

VTIAX was a big winner for me (My largest holding) and anything Intl was a drag. I also have a slight tilt towards Healthcare which didn't help.

My bond portfolio was down 1-2%. Hi Yield Corporate helped (up 4.28%) while VFIDX was down 2%. The rest were barely breakeven or down a bit.

livesoft
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby livesoft » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:50 am

wk522 wrote:Up 9.18% in 2016.

2016 returns:
+4.67% VTIAX
-8.99% VGHCX
So if most of your funds were medicocre to down, how do you explain your up 9.18% performance? I gotta get some of that.
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elgob.bogle
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby elgob.bogle » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:55 am

Up 8.7% in 2016. Broke even last year, so our 2-year performance is "not-so-good". We have a bond-heavy portfolio.

elgob

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TheTimeLord
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby TheTimeLord » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:59 am

Vanguard Admiral Shares as of 12/31/2016
VFIAX 11.93% (S&P 500)
VTSAX 12.66% (Total Market)
VIMAX 11.22% (Mid Cap)
VSMAX 18.30% (Small Cap)
VFWAX 4.73%(ex-US)
VEMAX 11.73% (Emerging Market)
VBTLX 2.60% (Total Bond)
VBILX 2.83% (Intermediate Bond)
VBIRX 1.49% (Short Term Bond)
Run, You Clever Boy!

feh
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby feh » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:37 am

M* portfolio tracker says my return for 2016 was 9.7%

Not sure if that includes dividends or not (I think it does).

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby LadyGeek » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:14 am

If the dividends were reinvested (like in a tax-deferred account), tracking returns by price alone won't be accurate. Indexes recognize this aspect and usually provide two types of indexes: price and total return.

See the wiki: Index types

The S&P 500 index total return usually runs about 2% higher than the price return.*

Source: S&P 500® - S&P Dow Jones Indices, Additional info --> Monthly and Annual Returns --> Annual Total Returns tab (spreadsheet), Column F. (The spreadsheet has not yet been updated for 2016.)

* The S&P 500 price return is what you see on the news and is what we're predicting in the REGISTRATION FOR THE 2017 BOGLEHEAD CONTEST.
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ruralavalon
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby ruralavalon » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:17 am

feh wrote:M* portfolio tracker says my return for 2016 was 9.7%

Not sure if that includes dividends or not (I think it does).

If you are looking at a "total return" column on Morningstar portfolio manager, it does include dividends.
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feh
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby feh » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:41 am

ruralavalon wrote:
feh wrote:M* portfolio tracker says my return for 2016 was 9.7%

Not sure if that includes dividends or not (I think it does).

If you are looking at a "total return" column on Morningstar portfolio manager, it does include dividends.


Yes, that's the column I'm looking at.

So,what was the change in the S&P 500 index for the year (which does not include dividends)? I'm seeing S&P 500 funds returned just under 12% for the year. If the dividend was just about 2%, did the index change about 10% for the year?

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Aptenodytes
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Aptenodytes » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:49 am

livesoft wrote:
wk522 wrote:Up 9.18% in 2016.

2016 returns:
+4.67% VTIAX
-8.99% VGHCX
So if most of your funds were medicocre to down, how do you explain your up 9.18% performance? I gotta get some of that.

Well, High-Yield Corporate was up 11.2%, not 4.3, so that would help boost the average. And VFIDX was up 4.0%, not down 2%, so maybe these numbers need a second look.

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ruralavalon
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby ruralavalon » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:17 pm

cusetownusa wrote:for those that have all their money at Vanguard are you just calculating your personal return number yourself? Looks like Vanguard's personal return number is still as if the end of November for me and I am too lazy to calculate it on my own.

For year to date, divide "investment returns" by "beginning balance". That will be roughly accurate if you are contributing/withdrawing roughly equal amounts every pay period, monthly, or on any other scheduled basis.
Last edited by ruralavalon on Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JeepDaze
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby JeepDaze » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:39 pm

401k: +8.50%
Vanguard: +12.66%

401k:

Total Allocation: 73/27 Stock/Bond
Stock Allocation: 69/31 US/Intl

Vanguard:

Total Allocation: 100/0 Stock/Bond
Stock Allocation: 100/0 US/Intl

Combined Accounts:

Total Allocation: 80/20 Stock/Bond
Stock Allocation: 80/20 US/Intl

401k = 68% of total balance
Vanguard = 32% of total balance

cusetownusa
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby cusetownusa » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:42 pm

ruralavalon wrote:
cusetownusa wrote:for those that have all their money at Vanguard are you just calculating your personal return number yourself? Looks like Vanguard's personal return number is still as if the end of November for me and I am too lazy to calculate it on my own.

For year to date, divide "investment returns" by "beginning balance", subtract 1. That will be roughly accurate if you are contributing/withdrawing roughly equal amounts every pay period, monthly, or on any other scheduled basis.



That gives me 10.6%. I have a 75/25 AA with 40% of equities in international.

But we aren't contributing on any type of schedule. I am self employed and invest depending on cash flow of my business. Plus does that take into consideration timing and amount of dividends?

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oncorhynchus
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby oncorhynchus » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:54 pm

Quicken IRR shows +9.04% for 2016 for my 75/25 tax-adjusted AA across my TSP, Roth IRA and taxable accounts.

I don't keep track of this so much to ensure fidelity to an index (not sure what the need is with only VTIAX/VTSAX/TSP G fund). Rather, I like to know how I'm doing in reality vs. the estimated average 5% annual rate of return in my retirement planning spreadsheet.

o
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ruralavalon
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby ruralavalon » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:26 pm

cusetownusa wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:
cusetownusa wrote:for those that have all their money at Vanguard are you just calculating your personal return number yourself? Looks like Vanguard's personal return number is still as if the end of November for me and I am too lazy to calculate it on my own.

For year to date, divide "investment returns" by "beginning balance", subtract 1. That will be roughly accurate if you are contributing/withdrawing roughly equal amounts every pay period, monthly, or on any other scheduled basis.



That gives me 10.6%. I have a 75/25 AA with 40% of equities in international.

But we aren't contributing on any type of schedule. I am self employed and invest depending on cash flow of my business. Plus does that take into consideration timing and amount of dividends?

No. It doesn't take timing into account, unless amounts intervals are regular.
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Ketawa
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Ketawa » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:40 pm

Returns below are calculated using XIRR in Excel. My portfolio is heavily tilted to value, small, momentum, and profitability. 75% equities/15% fixed income/10% alternatives, market cap weights for domestic/intl developed/intl emerging equities.

Code: Select all

 8.2% Overall

11.0% Equities

18.9% Domestic Equities Total
22.5% Domestic SCV (QSMLX)
16.4% TSP S Fund

 1.7% International Equities Total
 0.5% Intl Developed (QICLX and TSP I Fund)
 6.4% Intl Emerging (QEELX)

 3.0% Fixed Income Total
 1.8% G Fund
 4.9% Prepaid Cards

-0.3% QSPIX

Cramerica
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Cramerica » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:51 pm

oncorhynchus wrote:Quicken IRR shows +9.04% for 2016 for my 75/25 tax-adjusted AA across my TSP, Roth IRA and taxable accounts.


How has your experience with Quicken been?

Would you say it's worth it if I have Fidelity to track my returns?

It seems like the automatic download feature would be nice since I make a lot of trades.

I have been using Excel XIRR.

samuck
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby samuck » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:54 pm

100% stocks (76% all world, 12% domestic, 12% EM)
up 9.7% in 2016 (including dividends) :beer

columbia
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby columbia » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 pm

The personal capital app tells me +9.0% for 2016.
VT + TIAA Traditional

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby TomatoTomahto » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:21 pm

Cramerica wrote:
oncorhynchus wrote:Quicken IRR shows +9.04% for 2016 for my 75/25 tax-adjusted AA across my TSP, Roth IRA and taxable accounts.


How has your experience with Quicken been?

Would you say it's worth it if I have Fidelity to track my returns?

It seems like the automatic download feature would be nice since I make a lot of trades.

I have been using Excel XIRR.

Not onchorhynchus, but recommend Quicken, especially if you trade. I don't trade much, but find it invaluable for tracking my covered and uncovered lots for specific-id.

I earlier reported Vanguard taxable of 3.8%, overall up 7.7% for the year across all accounts (401k, kids, etc).

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resurgemus
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby resurgemus » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:16 pm

Alchemist wrote:
resurgemus wrote:9.74% on a 70/30 split. There's some REIT, SCV, Small Int'l, and EM in there, as well.

Can't complain. I think the SP500 was 9.5%? Nice to beat it with less risk.


You did quite well, but not as well as the S&P 500. The 9.5% is without dividends, with dividends it was close to 12%. For example, FUSVX (Fidelity 500) and VFIAX (Vanguard's S&P 500 index fund) both returned 11.9%.


Thanks! Didn't think of that.
Domestic 42%, Int'l 21%, REIT 7%, Fixed 30%

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oncorhynchus
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby oncorhynchus » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:29 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Cramerica wrote:
oncorhynchus wrote:Quicken IRR shows +9.04% for 2016 for my 75/25 tax-adjusted AA across my TSP, Roth IRA and taxable accounts.


How has your experience with Quicken been?

Would you say it's worth it if I have Fidelity to track my returns?

It seems like the automatic download feature would be nice since I make a lot of trades.

I have been using Excel XIRR.

Not onchorhynchus, but recommend Quicken, especially if you trade. I don't trade much, but find it invaluable for tracking my covered and uncovered lots for specific-id.

I earlier reported Vanguard taxable of 3.8%, overall up 7.7% for the year across all accounts (401k, kids, etc).


My Quicken data file goes back 25 years, encompassing my entire investing history (IRR = 6.12%), well-documenting my highs and lows (literally). Nothing like being able to revisit my tech bubble history in excruciating detail to keep me on the straight and narrow.

Pros:
-- handles basic trading and reporting relatively well, across multiple providers and accounts
-- automated data download (except TSP, but pretty easy to update manually)
-- unlike online sites, doesn't commoditize my personal financial info for sale

Cons
-- 3 year sunset on download capabilities
-- poor support and some maddening bugs (jury's out on this improving with new owners)
-- While it has rudimentary asset allocation/rebalancing capabilities, they're not granular enough for my taste, so I supplement with an Excel spreadsheet. I also wish it would include an ability to track/highlight/report ERs and other fees

o
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cheesepep
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby cheesepep » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:38 pm

Kind of surprised at the results here. The market really soared towards the end of the year and I thought many people would do better than their ~8% average I am seeing here (guess a large % of bonds). Quite frankly, I thought that I would be underperforming the market (but just slightly), but quite happy to be above the average.

daveydoo
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby daveydoo » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:15 pm

So far for 2017, I'm dead even. Will update on Tuesday.

livesoft
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby livesoft » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:48 pm

cheesepep wrote:Kind of surprised at the results here. The market really soared towards the end of the year and I thought many people would do better than their ~8% average I am seeing here (guess a large % of bonds). Quite frankly, I thought that I would be underperforming the market (but just slightly), but quite happy to be above the average.

~8% are the returns of several near 60/40 multi-asset index funds Vanguard:

7.13% VSMGX
8.77% VBIAX
6.95% VTWNX
7.48% VTTVX

So dial-up more US stocks and more value stocks and do better, but ~8% seems perfectly in line with expectations.
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siamond
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby siamond » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:37 pm

cheesepep wrote:Kind of surprised at the results here. The market really soared towards the end of the year and I thought many people would do better than their ~8% average I am seeing here (guess a large % of bonds). Quite frankly, I thought that I would be underperforming the market (but just slightly), but quite happy to be above the average.

I am around 8% too, not due to bonds (don't have a lot), but due to International. Oh well, the pendulum will swing back...

wk522
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby wk522 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:39 pm

livesoft wrote:
wk522 wrote:Up 9.18% in 2016.

2016 returns:
+4.67% VTIAX
-8.99% VGHCX
So if most of your funds were medicocre to down, how do you explain your up 9.18% performance? I gotta get some of that.


Sorry, my largest holding was VTSAX, not VTIAX. Wrong symbol!

pasadena
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby pasadena » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:12 pm

401(k) : 9.86% - Target Retirement 2035 @Voya, no ticker
Roth IRA : 6.20% - 100% VBTLX (now, but was 100% VASIX until July then 65% VBTLX/35% VTSMX until October)
Taxable : 13.10% - 100% VTSAX (opened in July, this number is XIRR)
HSA : 7.34% - 80% VDAIX / 20% VBLTX until December, now 100% VDAIX, will be liquidated in January because of custodian change. Started investing it on Brexit day (!!)

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snackdog
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby snackdog » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:54 pm

Vanguard personal performance of all accounts says 2016 was 13.9% which should be similar to everyone else. Plenty of bonds and crummy stocks in there which pulled me down I guess.

jay22
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby jay22 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:32 pm

My 2016 returns were 9.37% with a 90/10 portfolio. Cannot complain!

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Uncle Pennybags
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Uncle Pennybags » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:33 pm

island wrote:
Uncle Pennybags wrote:
island wrote:Not all Bogleheads are the same
Really? Do we all not all index invest unsung asset allocation? I would not call the timing trolls "Bogleheads".

Sure, but not all are 100% index. Some hold other investments from before discovering indexing, don't have index funds in their 401Ks, or inherited other options, and some choose variety including managed funds, individual stocks, annuities, etc. Bogleheadland is inclusive. :happy
OK you can call it what you want but market timing is very unBoglehead.

Sandi_k
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Sandi_k » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:49 pm

Total portfolio return for 2016, excluding contributions, was 11.88%.

We are not 3 Fund portfolio adherents; it's complicated by what I can buy via the employer plan; what DH can buy retail at low fees; and also by our preference to tilt to tech and biotech index funds to goose a bit of growth, since we feel that domestic S&P 500 and real estate are at all-time highs. So this is our construct; current allocation: 80/10/10

- 40% US Domestic Stock (FSKAX)
- 20% International (10% FSPNX & 10% FKEMX)
- 10% Real Estate Investment Trusts, REIT (VGSNX)
- 5% NASDAQ Index fund (FBSOX)
- 5% Biotech Index (FBIOX)
- 10% Bond Index (FINPX)
- 10% Cash fund (FDRXX)

Still pretty easy to manage, since we only re-allocate when any one fund is +/- a 5% range.

LazySherpa
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby LazySherpa » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:27 am

Total return 8.65% - 90% in equities.

BW1985
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby BW1985 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:40 am

BW1985 wrote:I don't track this but VG 'balances over time' says 7.3% for 1 year. Not sure how accurate that is, it also includes my EF which is cash sitting in a money market.


Now my VG says 10.4% as of 12/30/16. Cool.
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VAslim16
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby VAslim16 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:43 am

Yep. 10.3% for 2016 per Vanguard. 50/50 split of VTI and VXUS.

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Phineas J. Whoopee » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:45 pm

0%, as of 2:45 PM Eastern today.
PJW

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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Trader/Investor » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:14 pm

+12.36% That's exclusively trading bond funds. The previous two years was easier to best the S&P thanks to junk munis. In 2016 barely beat the S&P thanks to bank loans and junk corporates. The later two and emerging market bonds are about all that is left standing in Bondville and emerging markets bonds are too volatile for my methodology. Haven't a clue how 2017 will unfold and not very confident in beating the S&P unless it has a negative year. Best wishes to everyone for a prosperous 2017!

Edit: I try and keep my drawdowns under 1%. That necessitated a lot of trading in the first half of the year but very little the second half because of the trend persistency in the floating rate funds.
Last edited by Trader/Investor on Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Doom&Gloom
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Doom&Gloom » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:16 pm

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:0%, as of 2:45 PM Eastern today.
PJW


:mrgreen:

arsenalfan
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby arsenalfan » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:21 pm

+12.6% for 2016, excluding 2016 additions. 70/30 stock:bond. 25% of stocks international. Slices of REIT, SCV, Biotech/Health, and Muni Bonds.

Buddtholomew
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Buddtholomew » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:24 pm

arsenalfan wrote:+12.6% for 2016, excluding 2016 additions. 70/30 stock:bond. 25% of stocks international. Slices of REIT, SCV, Biotech/Health, and Muni Bonds.


Arsenal not looking so good right now.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool" --Feynman.

Nowizard
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Nowizard » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:55 pm

61/39. Up 9.64 for 2016.

Tim

arsenalfan
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby arsenalfan » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:10 pm

Buddtholomew wrote:
arsenalfan wrote:+12.6% for 2016, excluding 2016 additions. 70/30 stock:bond. 25% of stocks international. Slices of REIT, SCV, Biotech/Health, and Muni Bonds.


Arsenal not looking so good right now.


Nonsense. They are on target for the Arsenal Trophy - 4th place!

Arsenal is a metaphor for my international holdings. Really, really pulling for them but tempering expectations because they always disappoint...If only there were a 4th place trophy...

best2u
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby best2u » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:16 pm

2016 was another good year for us. We ended up 7.4% excluding our contributions. Our mix is 48% stock and 52% fixed income. There were 3 months, where the monthly investment returns totaled more than our total annual contributions. I know it doesn't mean much but it is something I watch for kicks and giggles. :sharebeer

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mister_sparkle
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby mister_sparkle » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:33 pm

2016 was a Good Year for me:

Up 9.02% overall -- 2.97% of that dividends and 6.06% investment performance. I do a simple calculation based on YE 2015 balance change, so doesn't take into account increase on any contributions made during the year.

kbrinaldi
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby kbrinaldi » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:03 pm

2016 XIRR: 9.8%

Asset Allocation:
TBM - 14%
TIPS - 9%
LB - 40.5%
SV - 13.5%
ILB - 14%
ISB - 9%

Beat our benchmarks by ~1%. :sharebeer

quantAndHold
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby quantAndHold » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:33 pm

2016 XIRR 10.51%

Basically a 70/30 portfolio. Emerging markets were good to me this year.

Rodc
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Rodc » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:01 pm

2016 XIRR 8.9%

60/40 portfolio

Scanning it looks about typical. Index funds are like that. :)
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

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DarkNyte
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Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby DarkNyte » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:05 pm

2016 Up 12.68%

VTI 50%
VXUS 25%
VNQ 12.5%
BND 12.5%

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Christine_NM
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Location: New Mexico

Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Christine_NM » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:21 pm

For 2016 up 9.0% according to Vanguard Personal Performance

AA ex cash:

54% US stocks
46% US bonds
10% cash 45% stock 45% bond. Retired, w/d rate 1.5%

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Pajamas
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:32 pm

Re: What are you up YTD? [Year To Date]

Postby Pajamas » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:37 pm

1.43% so far for 2017.


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