Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

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Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Yes
233
68%
No
111
32%
 
Total votes: 344

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timboktoo
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Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by timboktoo »

I've been reading through past threads about Total Bond Market and am curious what percentage of Bogleheads own it.

- Tim
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Peter Foley
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Peter Foley »

Yes, although it is a small percentage of my non equities.
Johm221122
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Johm221122 »

Most of my fixed is in 401 and it's not a choice.My only two real choices are Pimco at an exspense ratio of my1 5% or a stable value paying 1.5% .I choose the stable value.I plan on adding total bond index in Roth at next time my plan says to increase fixed income

John
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joe8d
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by joe8d »

As part of my Roth LS Fund.My main bond fund is STIG.
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madbrain
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by madbrain »

Nope. I prefer to hold a stable value fund in my 401k, even though institutional shares of Vanguard TBM are available.
My other bonds are high-yield in Roth IRA, and munis in taxable.
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NightOwl
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by NightOwl »

I hold 100% of my bond allocation in my 401(k) in Advantage Class shares of Fidelity's Spartan U.S. Bond Index Fund (FSITX), which I consider a near-equivalent to Admiral shares of Vanguard's Total Bond Fund Index Fund (VBTLX).

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dumbbunny
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by dumbbunny »

65% of my 50% bond allocation is in VBTLX and that will be rebalanced to 80% of my 50% bond allocation. All tax-deferred.
“It’s the curse of old men to realize that in the end we control nothing." "Homeland" episode, "Gerontion"
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fourwedge
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by fourwedge »

Yes, I just bought 10% bonds today. I was 100% equity till 2 days ago, now I'm putting 33% of new maxed out 401k money in VBTLX going forward. That is until I find a bond fund or strategy I like better. Still don't know the bond market too well.
Max out your tax sheltered retirement accounts with inexpensive, well diversified, index funds and you will beat 90% of all investors.
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steve roy
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by steve roy »

The Mrs. holds it in Target Retirement Income. I opt for other Vanguard bond funds.
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NAVigator
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by NAVigator »

When Jack Bogle gave a convincing recommendation to include corporates, I split my Total Bond allocation, moving half into Intermediate Investment Grade (VFIDX). It has done well for me.
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ajcp
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by ajcp »

My 401k has intermediate index but not total bond, so no I do not.
VTXVX
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by VTXVX »

Delete
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trasmuss
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by trasmuss »

Total Bond represents 30% of our portfolio. We also have 5% in the Total International Bond and 14% in a stable value (1% money market to bring it to 50%).

I am watching the International Bond fund. If I end up not feeling it adds value that portion will be going back to the Total Bond.

I have thought about putting some in either Short Term Investment Grade or Intermediate Term Investment Grade. But for now I'm satisfied having about 30% of the bonds corporate. Treasuries don't pay much in this environment but they shine just when you need them most (e.g. 2008).

I am taking a total return rather than income approach to our portfolio. Other than receiving dividends for a taxable S&P 500 fund when I need funds from my tax deferred funds I simply take from bonds or stocks depending upon which have done better (to bring back to 50-50). The lower yield on Total Bond therefore doesn't bother me as much as it would if I were depending solely upon the income. Everyone will have their own approach and needs.
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nisiprius
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by nisiprius »

I am very conservative and am in early retirement and am simply stating what we do, it should not be taken as any kind of recommendation or model. The things that I have that are not like stocks and not like cash have a breakdown about like this: 40% Total Bond Market, 40% individual TIPS, and 20% series I savings bonds.
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pennstater2005
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by pennstater2005 »

20% total bond for me and 10% for the wife.
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BigJohn
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by BigJohn »

Yes but only about 10% of bond allocation is in Total Bond all in a traditional IRA. About 45% in a Stable Value Fund earning just over 3% in my 401(k), The other 45% is in a taxable account and split between VG Limited, Intermediate and Long Term Muni Bond Funds.
IlliniDave
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by IlliniDave »

I answered yes because of a fund (non-Vanguard) in my 401k that tracks the Barclays Capital US Aggregate Bond Index, and I assume that's what is meant by "Total Bond Market"
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Dandy
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Dandy »

Yes I own it. Along with several other VG bond funds - Good fund but I like to diversify/tilt a bit more.
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Toons
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Toons »

Yes :happy
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ofcmetz
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by ofcmetz »

I own a similar but different fund, the Intermediate Term Bond Index Fund. I liked its 50% treasury/ 50% corporate bond mix as well as it's lack of MBS.

I really think that the TBM fund is probably going to perform very similar to the one I own and that you are fine owning it in tax advantaged accounts.
Never underestimate the power of the force of low cost index funds.
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stemikger
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by stemikger »

I own iShares Core Total U.S. Bond Market ETF so I put yes. They do not have the Vanguard Total Bond Index in my 401K, but this is even cheaper.

After I retire, I plan to own the Vanguard Balanced Index Fund and hold that probably until the end, unless my fear glad gets bigger and I may need to get more conservative. In which case, I will held the Vanguard Total Stock Index and Total Bond Index with more in the bond fund.
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Aptenodytes
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Aptenodytes »

I have a lot of my "bond" allocation in TIAA Traditional and in individual TIPS, so I prefer to concentrate the rest in investment-grade corporate bonds. As a whole what I have I probably approximates the risk profile of total bond, but with higher yield thanks to TIAA.
placeholder
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by placeholder »

IlliniDave wrote:I answered yes because of a fund (non-Vanguard) in my 401k that tracks the Barclays Capital US Aggregate Bond Index, and I assume that's what is meant by "Total Bond Market"
That's kind of the question whether the specific Vanguard fund is meant or any very similar fund so I hold 50% the Barclay's CIT in my 401k with the other half stable value.
John3754
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by John3754 »

I do not own total bond market. My fixed income allocation is composed of CDs in my Roth, munis in my taxable, and I bonds.
weltschmerz
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by weltschmerz »

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baw703916
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by baw703916 »

Most of my tax advantaged money is in the TSP, which has the G fund available. No TBM or equivalent for me.
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yukonjack
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by yukonjack »

Yes. The fixed side of my portfolio is about 80% Vang TBM and 20% Vang TIPS fund.
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Munir
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Munir »

The percerntage of respondents who own the Total International Bond Fund are about the same as those who do NOT own the Total Market Bond Fund- mid 30%. I wonder about the overlap. In retrospect, a more interesting poll would have asked how many own each of them and how many own both.
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BostonBoy
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by BostonBoy »

Yes, I own TBM along with the VG Tips fund.
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Clever_Username
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Clever_Username »

Yep, in my rollover (traditional) IRA and also in my 403(b).
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occamsrazor
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by occamsrazor »

nisiprius wrote:I am very conservative and am in early retirement and am simply stating what we do, it should not be taken as any kind of recommendation or model. The things that I have that are not like stocks and not like cash have a breakdown about like this: 40% Total Bond Market, 40% individual TIPS, and 20% series I savings bonds.
I'm 64, one year from retirement and have adopted a more conservative 70/30 bond/stock allocation.Vanguard Total Bond is my largest holding. I'm interested in your AA.
Do you think Dr. Pfau is right in arguing for less stock early in retirement? Thanks.
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Ged
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Ged »

I'm 64 with a 50/50 allocation. Of my fixed income about half is in BND. Since I'm going to be Roth converting and delaying SS over the next 6 years I have a significant shorter term holdings as well.
dewey
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by dewey »

I'm 65 in a few weeks, and retired for two years. My AA is 55/45 equities/fixed. Of the fixed portion, roughly 65% is TBM. The rest is mostly intermediate, or in my taxable, tax free intermediate and tax free short term. In my IRS I also hold a chunk of corporates at Uncle Jack's counsel, as well as a small piece of total int'l bond fund ala Vanguard's counsel. As with my equity funds, I'm very tilted to a three fund portfolio overall but I've shaded a few things and for now feel fine with where I am. But I'll add I feel immensely indebted to this forum. Can't say enough about how much I've learned and benefitted from this space.
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nedsaid
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by nedsaid »

Yes I do own the Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund in my workplace savings plan. I have been very pleased to own it.
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elgob.bogle
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by elgob.bogle »

No - Recently retired, 40/60 liability matching, low, two comma portfolio. Fixed Income: 5% Int Term Munis, 8% individual 5-yr TIPS, 8% Individual 10-yr TIPS, 15% Int Term Treasury Fund, 24% Short Term Treasury Fund - All Fixed income at Vanguard & about 80% of Fixed income in ROTH IRA accounts. Short Term Treasuries to Rebalance and to continue building 10-yr TIPs ladder.

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Dulocracy
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Dulocracy »

Personally, the total bond fund is not for me. While the return may be higher, so is the risk. At present, I am not comfortable with Corporate Bonds. I have an irrational aversion to mortgage backed securities.

My wife has a portion of total bond in her Target Date fund.
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LK2012
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by LK2012 »

I do have some Vanguard Total Bond in ROTH and just added a little bit more recently. Also have TIAA Traditional and I Bonds.
Jeff7
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Jeff7 »

"Yes...." but then remembered I don't anymore.
I shifted bonds to my 401k, so I can (hopefully) get the stock-based growth in my Roth IRA - pay no taxes on that. I think that works out like that.
So I'm stuck with an American Funds bond fund in the 401k. It's unfortunately more volatile than the Total Bond Fund. It dove in 2008, while the Total Bond Fund dipped only slightly, and it remains ahead.
keystone
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by keystone »

It will be interesting to see the final results, my initial thought was that I expected at least 90% of Bogleheads to hold at least some in Total Bond Market. It looks like it will be considerably less than that.
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ginmqi
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by ginmqi »

keystone wrote:It will be interesting to see the final results, my initial thought was that I expected at least 90% of Bogleheads to hold at least some in Total Bond Market. It looks like it will be considerably less than that.
There is a difference between a bond fund and individual bonds, as well as other fixed income assets (CDs, annuities, etc.)

I am still learning about how bonds and the bond market and bond funds work. And so far I am not totally convinced that the increased risk/fees in a bond fund, especially a total market bond fund is the right choice for me.

I want the safest bonds possible, so I am definitely going to rule out total bonds which would include bonds that I do not want to touch with a 10-foot pole....aka corporate and foreign bonds. Bonds and stocks are very different animals and the valuation of them are quite different. I am already risking my money on domestic and foreign equity, so I will be very conservative in the risk-averse sector of my portfolio.
Day9
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Day9 »

I do not.

Total Bond Market is not the appropriate bond holding for a young accumulator in his 20's. This person's portfolio might be 90% stock.

The role of bonds in this young accumulator's portfolio is different than their role in an older investor's portfolio. Income isn't as important. During stock market crashes, the role of the 10% bond allocation is not to serve so much as a cushion to dilute the weight of the drop, but more as a hedge that zigs up when stocks crash.

For these reasons I suggest young accumulators with only a 10% or less allocation to bonds should hold only bonds that are the highest quality, non callable, and default free. That's long term US Treasury Bonds, the first and best form of diversification you can get in a stock-dominated (90%+) portfolio.
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Johm221122
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Johm221122 »

keystone wrote:It will be interesting to see the final results, my initial thought was that I expected at least 90% of Bogleheads to hold at least some in Total Bond Market. It looks like it will be considerably less than that.
A lot of us have to make the best of what we got, Pimco , stable value or other bond funds in 401..I'm sure many got Penn Fed cd's too.
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Cernel
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Cernel »

No Total Bond

Bond allocation is 45% of my total portfolio
15% in Vanguard Intermediate Term Bond Index (VBILX)
15% in Vanguard Intermediate Term Investment Grade (VFIDX)
15% in Vanguard Inflation Protected Securities (VAIPX)
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Doc
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Doc »

ginmqi wrote:I am still learning about how bonds and the bond market and bond funds work. And so far I am not totally convinced that the increased risk/fees in a bond fund, especially a total market bond fund is the right choice for me.
In Larry Swedroe's bond book "The Only Guide to a Winning Bond Strategy You'll Ever Need: The Way Smart Money Preserves Wealth Today" he makes an argument against Mortgage Backed Securities, long bonds, and to a somewhat lesser extent in my opinion, even intermediate corporates. This is the main reason I model my FI portfolio on the Bar Cap Intermediate (1-10 year) Government/Credit Index instead of TBM.
Day9 wrote:For these reasons I suggest young accumulators with only a 10% or less allocation to bonds should hold only bonds that are the highest quality, non callable, and default free. That's long term US Treasury Bonds, the first and best form of diversification you can get in a stock-dominated (90%+) portfolio.
This is another good alternative for very high equity portfolios.
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texasdiver
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by texasdiver »

I have it as a component in my and my wife's target retirement funds but not as a stand-alone fund.

I use my TSP-G fund in lieu of total bond for the fixed income portion of the rest of my portfolio.
Bungo
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by Bungo »

TBM is 75% of my non-equity holdings. Would be 100% if not for suboptimal 401(k) choices. I use PIMCO for the 401(k) portion.
chaz
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by chaz »

Yes, in my IRA.
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DaveG
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by DaveG »

I answered "yes".

DW and I are both in our late 30's. 20% of our retirement portfolio is in some variation total bond (the ETF "BND", Fidelity Spartan US Bond "FSITX", or DW's 401k's Total Bond fund that has an ER of 0.04%).

Our other bond allocations in our retirement accounts are 5% in "TIP" and 5% in "JNK".

DW also inherited a 403b that yields 4.5% fixed but since she must take RMD's, we exclude it from our "retirement" portfolio.

We also hold municipal bonds in our taxable account in the form of the ETF's MUB and TFI.
He/She:41/40, Kids:8/4 | Stock (72%): 20% US LrgCap, 20% Intl Developed, 8% US MidCap, 8% US SmlCap, 7% Intl EM & Frontier, 5% RE, 4% JnkBnd | Bond (25%): 21% USIndx, 4% TIPS | Commodities (3%)
111
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by 111 »

I do, but after reading some of the other comments and some other threads I'm thinking of selling it since I also have a TSP and the ability to shift funds to the G-Fund.
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ginmqi
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Re: Poll: Do you own Total Bond Market?

Post by ginmqi »

Doc wrote:
ginmqi wrote:I am still learning about how bonds and the bond market and bond funds work. And so far I am not totally convinced that the increased risk/fees in a bond fund, especially a total market bond fund is the right choice for me.
In Larry Swedroe's bond book "The Only Guide to a Winning Bond Strategy You'll Ever Need: The Way Smart Money Preserves Wealth Today" he makes an argument against Mortgage Backed Securities, long bonds, and to a somewhat lesser extent in my opinion, even intermediate corporates. This is the main reason I model my FI portfolio on the Bar Cap Intermediate (1-10 year) Government/Credit Index instead of TBM.
I am in the process of procuring this Swedroe book as I continue to learn about how bonds work and how to invest in bonds. I've read Swensen's Unconventional Success (in which he does not recommend any bonds other than Treasuries and TIPS). And I need to do a 2nd read of Thau's The Bond Book.

But yeah seems like to me there is very little point in investing in corporate and foreign and mortgaged backed securities and the such.
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