What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
Locked
Topic Author
WormWood
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:28 pm
Location: USA

What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by WormWood »

I'm sure this has been discussed before but search could not locate exactly what I want to ask.

Suppose you have virtually all your retirement investments (except real estate) at one house, i.e., Vanguard.

Suppose you logged on one morning and the accounts were empty.

Suppose someone hacked Vanny, or hacked you or your password and transferred all the money out.

.

.

I called Vanny and asked them about this. They assured me it has never happened and could not possibly happen.

Really?

Could not possibly happen?

Thoughts?

Thanks!
User avatar
HardKnocker
Posts: 2063
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:55 am
Location: New Jersey USA

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by HardKnocker »

Personally, I'm very concerned about the Russians invading New Jersey.

The experts say it's never happened and won't happen but...look at Crimea. :|

Then there the whole global warming thing... :(
“Gold gets dug out of the ground, then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility.”--Warren Buffett
BigTom
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:43 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by BigTom »

HardKnocker wrote:Personally, I'm very concerned about the Russians invading New Jersey.

The experts say it's never happened and won't happen but...look at Crimea. :|

Then there the whole global warming thing... :(
I am not sure if your serious, but with recent breeches at big companies it's a valid concern .

To the point I signed up for lifelock after having a breech in my debit card . Plus having been shopping at target and using safari
User avatar
SpringMan
Posts: 5422
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:32 am
Location: Michigan

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by SpringMan »

This is one reason I disagree with those Bogleheads that say you should never look at your accounts or only once a year to rebalance. If such a thing happened I would want to know ASAP and get right on it. Bad news does not get better with age.
Best Wishes, SpringMan
carolinaman
Posts: 5463
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:56 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by carolinaman »

It can happen but Vanguard will restore your funds provided you have complied with their policy:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/help/S ... ontent.jsp
Last edited by carolinaman on Wed May 07, 2014 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
columbia
Posts: 3023
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:30 am

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by columbia »

I'm not worried about my investment accounts, but banking/credit cards is quite another issue.
If you've had your ATM card hacked - which I have - you tend to take a look at things every day, just to make sure.
The Wizard
Posts: 13356
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by The Wizard »

This is not something that needs to be worried about, IMO...
Attempted new signature...
jebmke
Posts: 25474
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by jebmke »

HardKnocker wrote:Personally, I'm very concerned about the Russians invading New Jersey.
Everybody to get from street!
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
User avatar
HardKnocker
Posts: 2063
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:55 am
Location: New Jersey USA

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by HardKnocker »

jebmke wrote:
HardKnocker wrote:Personally, I'm very concerned about the Russians invading New Jersey.
Everybody to get from street!
I'm learning Russian so I can communicate!

Also have bought a few cases of vodka for barter. :wink:
“Gold gets dug out of the ground, then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility.”--Warren Buffett
sscritic
Posts: 21853
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by sscritic »

HardKnocker wrote:Personally, I'm very concerned about the Russians invading New Jersey.
You got the New right, but if I remember correctly, they landed in New England, not New Jersey.
Call_Me_Op
Posts: 9881
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:57 pm
Location: Milky Way

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Call_Me_Op »

johnep wrote:It can happen but Vanguard will restore your funds provided you have complied with their policy:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/help/S ... ontent.jsp
Two comments/questions:

1.) It is really at their discretion (for a small-scale breach). Look at all of the gray areas associated with compliance with their policy.
2.) If a breach happens on a massive scale, where will Vanguard get the money to make you whole? They have no significant assets outside of our assets. At least Fidelity is privately owned, and the owners are billionaires.

I am being a devil's advocate here, but the cited policy does not give me confidence that money being held by Vanguard is completely safe - particularly from fraud perpetrated by an external entity. But the same holds for any single custodian - which is why I diversify them.
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein
gerrym51
Posts: 1679
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:44 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by gerrym51 »

GULP! :confused
User avatar
Ged
Posts: 3945
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 1:48 pm
Location: Roke

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Ged »

sscritic wrote:
HardKnocker wrote:Personally, I'm very concerned about the Russians invading New Jersey.
You got the New right, but if I remember correctly, they landed in New England, not New Jersey.
Meh. They are a lot closer to Alaska. Putin may even be sending agents there now.
sscritic
Posts: 21853
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by sscritic »

Call_Me_Op wrote: 2.) If a breach happens on a massive scale, where will Vanguard get the money to make you whole? They have no significant assets outside of our assets.
But they don't hold our assets, a third party does. You should be more worried about the third party being hacked. Actually make that third parties plural.
[They] include The Bank of New York Mellon, Brown Brothers Harriman & Co., JPMorgan Chase Bank, and State Street Bank and Trust Company.
User avatar
Taylor Larimore
Posts: 32842
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:09 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Taylor Larimore »

What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

WormWood:

I am no expert in these matters; however, I've assumed mutual fund companies and banks must be very safe because they could not operate if accounts were easily hacked. In fact, I've never heard of a bank account or mutual fund account being "Hacked/Empty." Has anyone? If so, was the account owner reimbursed?

Thank you and best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle
sscritic
Posts: 21853
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by sscritic »

Ged wrote:
sscritic wrote:
HardKnocker wrote:Personally, I'm very concerned about the Russians invading New Jersey.
You got the New right, but if I remember correctly, they landed in New England, not New Jersey.
Meh. They are a lot closer to Alaska. Putin may even be sending agents there now.
I guess you missed the movie. Too young perhaps?

Hint: remember and landed both imply the past, not the future.
Call_Me_Op
Posts: 9881
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:57 pm
Location: Milky Way

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Call_Me_Op »

sscritic wrote:
Call_Me_Op wrote: 2.) If a breach happens on a massive scale, where will Vanguard get the money to make you whole? They have no significant assets outside of our assets.
But they don't hold our assets, a third party does. You should be more worried about the third party being hacked. Actually make that third parties plural.
I am worried about both - and the more parties that need to be hacked for me to lose everything - the better.
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein
User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 9972
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by tadamsmar »

WormWood wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed before but search could not locate exactly what I want to ask.

Suppose you have virtually all your retirement investments (except real estate) at one house, i.e., Vanguard.

Suppose you logged on one morning and the accounts were empty.

Suppose someone hacked Vanny, or hacked you or your password and transferred all the money out.

.

.

I called Vanny and asked them about this. They assured me it has never happened and could not possibly happen.

Really?

Could not possibly happen?

Thoughts?

Thanks!
According to new reports, Vanguard brokerage accounts were hit by hack, pump, and dump in 2007:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/08/markets ... 2007030816

The owners probably did not find the accounts completely empty, but close enough, drained of value. I think Vanguard had tightened security since then.

But these were brokerage accounts, maybe it's never happened to a Vanguard mutual fund account. There have been news reports of mutual fund accounts at TSP and Morgan Stanley being drained by hackers. TSP did not reimburse the account holders, but TSP kind of has a captive audience so a public company is perhaps less likely to do that for fear if losing clients. Also, TSP ended online withdrawals after the incident.

If it happens, you should notify Vanguard immediately and cooperate with them. Personally, I would get my own lawyer to review any commitments I am asked to make, since the responsibility for fraud reimbursement may be murky.

For now, you should fulfill your responsibilities listed here, to make a loss less likely:

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/help/S ... ontent.jsp
Last edited by tadamsmar on Wed May 07, 2014 10:19 am, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
Ged
Posts: 3945
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 1:48 pm
Location: Roke

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Ged »

sscritic wrote:
Ged wrote:
sscritic wrote:
HardKnocker wrote:Personally, I'm very concerned about the Russians invading New Jersey.
You got the New right, but if I remember correctly, they landed in New England, not New Jersey.
Meh. They are a lot closer to Alaska. Putin may even be sending agents there now.
I guess you missed the movie. Too young perhaps?

Hint: remember and landed both imply the past, not the future.
Um in the past Russia owned Alaska. I'm sure they landed there plenty of times.

I am not too young to remember the movie. I just didn't find it particularly entertaining.

I did get a kick out of when Google news broke the story of Russia invading Georgia (the republic) though. The story was accompanied by a map of Georgia (the state).
User avatar
Phineas J. Whoopee
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:18 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

WormWood wrote:...

Suppose someone hacked Vanny, or hacked you or your password and transferred all the money out.
...
I called Vanny and asked them about this. They assured me it has never happened and could not possibly happen.

Really?

Could not possibly happen?

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Hi WormWood (any relation to Screwtape?),

There are two issues here: the general; and the specific.

In general, yes, Vanguard isn't invulnerable. I have every confidence they manage their risks well, but some hack :happy around here wrote about never assuming the improbable is impossible.

There's also a particular, which I've underlined: the idea that somebody who had hacked them or you might have "transferred all the money out." That's the bit which, if not impossible, would be very hard to accomplish without attracting attention.

How could anybody do it? There are two methods. One is for the thief to have the money transferred to their own bank account. The other is to have a check sent to them.

Vanguard doesn't make it especially easy to link to a new bank account for auto-transfers, and also imposes a delay after such a change before any money can be moved out. During that time they email you (if you've set your account up for it) and also snail mail you. If you didn't initiate the activity you have opportunity to contest it.

They do the same if you change your physical address with them. There's a lockout period during which they snail mail both your old and your new addresses.

Are you absolutely certain they used the words "could not possibly happen," those words in that order? Or were they just saying they've thought about it and put procedures in place to make it very difficult?

What if a hacker was able to break in and reprogram all of Vanguard's computers so they work completely differently? That's where the custodial function, required by the Investment Company Act of 1940, comes in. Vanguard does not hold the assets. That's done by a third party: J P Morgan Chase, in this instance. Somebody would have to reprogram the computers of both firms without anybody noticing to drain it all.

What a person equipped with your user name and password and security questions and answers could do is: sell appreciated assets in your taxable account to buy others thereby raising your tax liability; or withdraw from your tax-deferred account, thereby again raising your tax liability; and move the proceeds to your personal bank account. They'd have to have hacked that too to get the money out from there.

The person with any of our user names and passwords is far more likely to be somebody we've entrusted them to than somebody who infected our computers or guessed and calculated and gave it a shot.

What if a person equipped with your user name and password and security questions and answers and withdrawal authority on your bank account intentionally injured you such that you were unconscious in the hospital?

There are risks and then there are risks.

PJW
Last edited by Phineas J. Whoopee on Wed May 07, 2014 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
IlliniDave
Posts: 2388
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 7:09 am

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by IlliniDave »

Clear cut RBD.
Don't do something. Just stand there!
Topic Author
WormWood
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:28 pm
Location: USA

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by WormWood »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:.....Hi WormWood (any relation to Screwtape?).....

.......Are you absolutely certain they used the words "could not possibly happen," those words in that order? Or were they just saying they've thought about it and put procedures in place to make it very difficult?.......


PJW

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.


Yes, ScrewTape is my uncle, do you know him?

I do not know if they used those exact words, but they were words to lead me to that conclusion.

They said money could not be transfered to any account except ones I have previously linked.

They did not really address a situation where a hacker got directly into their computers and transfered money that way.

I'm not very computer savvy, so what I'm concerned about may be silly.

It's just that we are talking about my life's savings, too late to make it up.

Thanks!

WW
User avatar
Phineas J. Whoopee
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:18 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

[OT comments removed by admin LadyGeek]

PJW
User avatar
Phineas J. Whoopee
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:18 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

[OT comments removed by admin LadyGeek]

PJW
Last edited by Phineas J. Whoopee on Wed May 07, 2014 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Aptenodytes
Posts: 3786
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Aptenodytes »

Vanny?
Topic Author
WormWood
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:28 pm
Location: USA

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by WormWood »

Aptenodytes wrote:Vanny?

Yeah!

Kinda like Fido, that other big brokerage house!
lws6772
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:14 pm
Location: DFW

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by lws6772 »

WormWood wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed before but search could not locate exactly what I want to ask.

Suppose you have virtually all your retirement investments (except real estate) at one house, i.e., Vanguard.

Suppose you logged on one morning and the accounts were empty.

Suppose someone hacked Vanny, or hacked you or your password and transferred all the money out.

.

.

I called Vanny and asked them about this. They assured me it has never happened and could not possibly happen.

Really?

Could not possibly happen?

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Plus, if those accounts are tax deferred the IRS will send you a big nice bill, plus penalties if withdrawn premature. It sounds far fetched(right now), but I've learned that it you live long enough, you might be very surprised as to what can happen(that everyone was 100% sure could never happen).
User avatar
Phineas J. Whoopee
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:18 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

WormWood wrote:
Aptenodytes wrote:Vanny?

Yeah!

Kinda like Fido, that other big brokerage house!
Imagine the increase in productivity if everybody who's a customer of Vanguard, and everybody who writes about customers of Vanguard, and everybody who attacks Vanguard, could save themselves typing three letters!

GDP would double overnight!

Then again, it would only do so if we ignore the extra time taken by people to recognize what's meant, and the time taken writing responses questioning the use of the term "Vanny," and the time reading the responses, and writing and reading the responses to those responses, and responses, like this one, to the responses to those responses.

Come to think of it, GDP would halve overnight!

WW: Did ScrewTape really suggest your present course of action as an effective way to move down in the lowerarchy?

PJW
Last edited by Phineas J. Whoopee on Wed May 07, 2014 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 20122
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by VictoriaF »

HardKnocker wrote:Personally, I'm very concerned about the Russians invading New Jersey.

The experts say it's never happened and won't happen but...look at Crimea. :|
It won't happen in New Jersey, but Alaska is a different story. It used to belong to Russia--just as Crimea--until they sold it the U.S.

Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
User avatar
NAVigator
Posts: 2545
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:24 am
Location: Iowa

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by NAVigator »

WormWood wrote:Suppose you logged on one morning and the accounts were empty.
Rebalance and gone on... :wink:

I wouldn't worry with Vanguard since any transfer would go to my bank account. If the bank account were changed, there would have been written confirmation.

Sleep well...
"I was born with nothing and I have most of it left."
Topic Author
WormWood
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:28 pm
Location: USA

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by WormWood »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
WormWood wrote:
Aptenodytes wrote:Vanny?

Yeah!

Kinda like Fido, that other big brokerage house!
Imagine the increase in productivity if everybody who's a customer of Vanguard, and everybody who writes about customers of Vanguard, and everybody who attacks Vanguard, could save themselves typing three letters!

GDP would double overnight!

Then again, it would only do so if we ignore the extra time taken by people to recognize what's meant, and the time taken writing responses questioning the use of the term "Vanny," and the time reading the responses, and writing and reading the responses to those responses, and responses, like this one, to the responses to those responses.

Come to think of it, GDP would halve overnight!

WW: Did ScrewTape really suggest your present course of action as an effective way to move down in the lowerarchy?

PJW

Yup. A letter here, a letter there, pretty soon we have saved a whole alphabet!

I'm humbled in the recognition of my service and contribution to the brevity of this forum, be it so small.

You know, of course, I can not divulge the internal machinations of The Glorious Lowerachy (I like that!) in which I am but a mere cog.

Yours with sincere malice,

WW
User avatar
kenyan
Posts: 3015
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by kenyan »

sscritic wrote:
Ged wrote:
sscritic wrote:
HardKnocker wrote:Personally, I'm very concerned about the Russians invading New Jersey.
You got the New right, but if I remember correctly, they landed in New England, not New Jersey.
Meh. They are a lot closer to Alaska. Putin may even be sending agents there now.
I guess you missed the movie. Too young perhaps?

Hint: remember and landed both imply the past, not the future.
They landed in Colorado, at least when talking about the experiences depicted in the movie.
Retirement investing is a marathon.
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 27850
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by abuss368 »

HardKnocker wrote:Personally, I'm very concerned about the Russians invading New Jersey.

The experts say it's never happened and won't happen but...look at Crimea. :|

Then there the whole global warming thing... :(
That was good. Red Dawn?
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 27850
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by abuss368 »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote: Are you absolutely certain they used the words "could not possibly happen," those words in that order?
Do you swear to tell the truth, whole truth, and.....
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 27850
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by abuss368 »

My understanding is Vanguard carries insurance for this exact reason. I received information from them a few years ago.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
accbh
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by accbh »

I think there should be a preference setting to have Vanguard always email/text an investor if there are any transactions on an account. Currently, if an unauthorized person makes a transfer and selects postal mail confirmation, the account owner is not notified of the fraudulent transaction for several days.
User avatar
Phineas J. Whoopee
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:18 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

abuss368 wrote:My understanding is Vanguard carries insurance for this exact reason. I received information from them a few years ago.
Vanguard cannot possibly carry two trillion dollars of insurance. Think.
PJW
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 27850
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by abuss368 »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
abuss368 wrote:My understanding is Vanguard carries insurance for this exact reason. I received information from them a few years ago.
Vanguard cannot possibly carry two trillion dollars of insurance. Think.
PJW
I believe it was somewhere around $17 trillion.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 27850
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by abuss368 »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
abuss368 wrote:My understanding is Vanguard carries insurance for this exact reason. I received information from them a few years ago.
Vanguard cannot possibly carry two trillion dollars of insurance. Think.
PJW
Are you referring to Vanguard being totally wiped out as in all accounts?
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
User avatar
Phineas J. Whoopee
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:18 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

What are you referring to?
PJW
thx1138
Posts: 1164
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:14 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by thx1138 »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
abuss368 wrote:My understanding is Vanguard carries insurance for this exact reason. I received information from them a few years ago.
Vanguard cannot possibly carry two trillion dollars of insurance. Think.
PJW
Vanguard doesn't need to carry two trillion dollars of insurance to protect against occasional fraudulent withdrawals from customer accounts. Think.
User avatar
Phineas J. Whoopee
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:18 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

thx1138 wrote:
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
abuss368 wrote:My understanding is Vanguard carries insurance for this exact reason. I received information from them a few years ago.
Vanguard cannot possibly carry two trillion dollars of insurance. Think.
PJW
Vanguard doesn't need to carry two trillion dollars of insurance to protect against occasional fraudulent withdrawals from customer accounts. Think.
Thank. What insurance do you think Vanguard does carry?
PJW
User avatar
abuss368
Posts: 27850
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: Where the water is warm, the drinks are cold, and I don't know the names of the players!
Contact:

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by abuss368 »

thx1138 wrote:
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
abuss368 wrote:My understanding is Vanguard carries insurance for this exact reason. I received information from them a few years ago.
Vanguard cannot possibly carry two trillion dollars of insurance. Think.
PJW
Vanguard doesn't need to carry two trillion dollars of insurance to protect against occasional fraudulent withdrawals from customer accounts. Think.
Excellent point and you beat me to it.

Thank you for posting.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
User avatar
Phineas J. Whoopee
Posts: 9675
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:18 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

abuss368 wrote: Excellent point and you beat me to it.

Thank you for posting.
Then you beat thx1138. What insurance do you think Vanguard does carry?
PJW
thx1138
Posts: 1164
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:14 pm

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by thx1138 »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:Then you beat thx1138. What insurance do you think Vanguard does carry?
PJW
I don't know or particularly care. If they are smart they self insure for "small" losses to fraud in customer accounts and have an insurance policy for "large" losses. I'm not aware they need to disclose that to me. They do very specifically state that they do guarantee against fraudulent losses from your account and give a list of conditions on that guarantee. How they internally implement the costs of that guarantee is up to them.
sscritic
Posts: 21853
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by sscritic »

kenyan wrote:
sscritic wrote:
Ged wrote:
sscritic wrote:
HardKnocker wrote:Personally, I'm very concerned about the Russians invading New Jersey.
You got the New right, but if I remember correctly, they landed in New England, not New Jersey.
Meh. They are a lot closer to Alaska. Putin may even be sending agents there now.
I guess you missed the movie. Too young perhaps?

Hint: remember and landed both imply the past, not the future.
They landed in Colorado, at least when talking about the experiences depicted in the movie.
I always liked the part where the submarines came out of Grand Lake. :)
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 95686
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: What if You Found Your Accounts Hacked/Empty?

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread has run it's course and is locked (off-topic, no added value to continue). See: Forum Policy
Locked Topics

Moderators or site admins may lock a topic (set it so no more replies may be added) when a violation of posting policy has occurred. Occasionally, even if there are no overt violations of posting policy, a topic (or thread) will reach a point where the information content of the discussion has been essentially exhausted and further replies are much more likely to cause distress to the community than add anything of value.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Locked