How do you "Stay the Course"?

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Blue
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How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Blue »

How do you "stay the course"? What tools and strategies do you utilize?
Rodc
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Rodc »

Investments are set up automatically.

If markets are crashing badly enough stop looking...
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.
user5027
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by user5027 »

Ear plugs to block the noise.
sambb
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by sambb »

lifestrategy and target funds in tax deferred. makes it easy
solonseneca
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by solonseneca »

Pure thoughts and calisthenics. When that fails, vodka martinis.

I watch cnbc with the sound off and only read the wall street journals articles on celebrities and cooking tips.

Best of all is reading this forum. It keeps me on the straight and narrow.

Good luck.
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Toons
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Toons »

Cardinal rule when investing makes it easy .When purchasing a fund or Stock,I am not allowed to entertain the thought of selling shares for a minimum of 10 years.It makes all the "noise" that goes on totally meaningless.
It has worked out well so far.:happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
seamonkey
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by seamonkey »

Pretty simple.

I don't watch "news" on the tele. I have no idea what the markets are doing on any given day.

There's plenty of other fun things to do in life.
The Wizard
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by The Wizard »

I'm retired, so there's less that needs doing now.
I monitor my AA and plan ahead for the next adjustment.
Looks like I'll sell a percent of holdings in stocks and move it to bonds before long.
That's about as exciting as it gets anymore...
Attempted new signature...
livesoft
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by livesoft »

I understand what The Course is and I understand what The Course has been. If you don't understand The Course, then there is no hope of Stay The Course. There will be no understanding of what The Course will be.

I can watch all the news, read all the articles, hang out at Bogleheads, and still not have my mind changed about The Course. I own The Course. The Course does not own me.

And Your Course is not my The Course.
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Fallible
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Post by Fallible »

livesoft wrote:I understand what The Course is and I understand what The Course has been. If you don't understand The Course, then there is no hope of Stay The Course. There will be no understanding of what The Course will be.

I can watch all the news, read all the articles, hang out at Bogleheads, and still not have my mind changed about The Course. I own The Course. The Course does not own me.

And Your Course is not my The Course.
Jack Bogle would love this! :D :thumbsup
"Yes, investing is simple. But it is not easy, for it requires discipline, patience, steadfastness, and that most uncommon of all gifts, common sense." ~Jack Bogle
rnitz
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by rnitz »

I have fooled myself before, thinking I wasn't market timing (when I actually was). So I have settled on a personal policy (written in my IPS) that whenever I want to make a change to my asset allocation or the underlying holdings I do the analysis, weigh all the alternatives, make my final decision... and then wait one year before implementing.

It's amazing how many important decisions (that aren't market timing!) become unimportant or unnecessary if you wait a year.
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BolderBoy
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by BolderBoy »

Blue wrote:How do you "stay the course"? What tools and strategies do you utilize?
If you have time to look and brood, you need to spend more time MAKING MONEY. If you are busy, busy, busy making money and auto investing it, then you won't have time to worry or brood.

Work sun up to sun down. The market will open and close and you'll have been too busy to notice.
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joe8d
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Re:

Post by joe8d »

Fallible wrote:
livesoft wrote:I understand what The Course is and I understand what The Course has been. If you don't understand The Course, then there is no hope of Stay The Course. There will be no understanding of what The Course will be.

I can watch all the news, read all the articles, hang out at Bogleheads, and still not have my mind changed about The Course. I own The Course. The Course does not own me.

And Your Course is not my The Course.
Jack Bogle would love this! :D :thumbsup
+2
All the Best, | Joe
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G-Money
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by G-Money »

Paper statements. I only see how my portfolio is doing 4 times per year.

I have a policy that I cannot make any changes to my portfolio less than 3 months after I firmly determine it's a good idea. No rash moves. If, after 3 months, I still think the proposed change is warranted, I'll pull the trigger.
Don't assume I know what I'm talking about.
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Sheepdog
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Sheepdog »

Before I retired in '98, I was always panicing. Can you say 1987? Then the Vanguard Diehards site (the predecessor to the Bogleheads) was founded in '98. Good timing for me. Taylor and others led me to the path of "keep cool, man". By the 2000-02 tech crash, I was cool. By golly, it worked. Down markets are followed by up markets and no one knows when they will happen. Let me tell you, when you are living off of your savings, with no new money except SS coming in and you can stay the course, you are there. I am still there.
How do you stay the course? It's a mental thing. You just have to believe.
Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered you will never grow. (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
Sriracha
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Sriracha »

I just keep the example of "the bad old days" before me -- when everything was "OMG this is happening" or "OMG that is happening" or -- even worse -- "OMG the other thing is happening." And there was always some action I had to take in response (according to those whose opinions I read or heard).

After getting religion about passive, low cost investing and doing the legwork to set up my IPS, AA, etc., it has been incredibly liberating to make my default to everything "do nothing different." Sure, it's interesting to learn about the niceties and consider for example when, if ever, I might want to add another level of complexity like REITS or whatever to my relatively simple portfolio (I SV tilt, but that's about it). But the day to day stuff is pretty much on autopilot.

The few times I've gotten a little antsy about this or that and wondered if I was "positioned correctly," I just stepped back and remembered that during the bad old days, almost every time I made a move it was from the frying pan into the fire. Makes staying on an even keel these days much easier.
Don't reach for yield.
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Tortoise
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Tortoise »

Sheepdog wrote:Before I retired in '98, I was always panicing. Can you say 1987? Then the Vanguard Diehards site (the predecessor to the Bogleheads) was founded in '98. Good timing for me. Taylor and others led me to the path of "keep cool, man". By the 2000-02 tech crash, I was cool. By golly, it worked. Down markets are followed by up markets and no one knows when they will happen. Let me tell you, when you are living off of your savings, with no new money except SS coming in and you can stay the course, you are there. I am still there.
How do you stay the course? It's a mental thing. You just have to believe.
Sheepdog,

You, Taylor, Mel, and perhaps a few others are some of the best examples that "Stay the Course" works.

Thanks.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." --Mark Twain
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GerryL
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by GerryL »

A little healthy ignorance helps. When the markets began to tank in 2008, it never occurred to me to take my money out of my stock funds because I didn't know enough to figure out where I could put it that would be "safer." So I just kept to my plan and continued to max out my 401k and Roth IRA and any other automatic savings I had set up. I couldn't understand why people yanked all their money out and put it into cash ... AFTER their balances had already sunk.
The only thing I changed: I stopped paying extra on my mortgage principal each month because my costs were going up faster than my salary. (But I paid off my mortgage last month, so it all worked out.)
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cfs
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by cfs »

Leaders, good morning/afternoon/evening

Thanks for asking and keep all those good questions coming. Staying the course--we can start by using some nautical terms. Before getting underway, make sure you have an up-to-date set of nautical charts. Follow your PIM or plan of intended movement, make course corrections only to prevent shipping--a collision at sea can really ruin your entire day. Now, that works at sea, but in investing I learned to stay the course, because every time I changed course it resulted in an ugly collision--and a collision can really ruin your entire day.

Thanks for reading.
~ Member of the Active Retired Force since 2014 ~
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Dale_G
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Dale_G »

51 years in the markets is a big help. Been there, done that. It never crosses my mind to change course.

Dale
Volatility is my friend
MapleHermit
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by MapleHermit »

It's really hard to control your emotions, I personally have done stupid things because of them.

The best method to stay on course is be a robot (this is a joke) or make everything automatic and ignore the news.

The best way to maximize your returns by being a Boglehead is to "buy and hold". We shouldn't be market timing or speculating.

If you can't stop checking the news, make your portfolio less exposed to stocks and more to fixed income: this should help you relax.
IlliniDave
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by IlliniDave »

I keep a set of specific goals and "the course" is the path that gets me there. By keeping my eye on the ball staying the course seems to happen naturally. No tricks or tools.
Don't do something. Just stand there!
YDNAL
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by YDNAL »

Blue wrote:How do you "stay the course"? What tools and strategies do you utilize?
Understanding your course.

If you don't, you don't (or it is difficult to) stay.
Landy | Be yourself, everyone else is already taken -- Oscar Wilde
Geist
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Geist »

Tools? 2 words: "Automatic Investment"
Strategy? 2 more words: "No Touchie"

Okay, 2 final words (I'll call this both a tool & strategy): "Asset Allocation" <---- If that's set properly for your personal tolerances, you shouldn't have any problems riding out whatever storms may come.
wander
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by wander »

I am looking at my portfolio as numbers. As long I don't cash it out, all numbers are meaningless and up or down is expected.
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meowcat
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by meowcat »

"Don't peek"!
What the bold print givith, the fine print taketh away. | -meowcat
B. Wellington
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by B. Wellington »

rnitz wrote:I have fooled myself before, thinking I wasn't market timing (when I actually was). So I have settled on a personal policy (written in my IPS) that whenever I want to make a change to my asset allocation or the underlying holdings I do the analysis, weigh all the alternatives, make my final decision... and then wait one year before implementing.

It's amazing how many important decisions (that aren't market timing!) become unimportant or unnecessary if you wait a year.
+1 Write down your IPS. Pick an AA that YOU can live with through thick and thin.
skylar
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by skylar »

A couple ways:
  1. I have an IPS.
  2. I stay busy doing other things, so it can be weeks/months before I look at investments.
There's really no need to look at investments more often than you have to rebalance them.
Last edited by skylar on Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Call_Me_Op
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Call_Me_Op »

It's important to have an AA that is compatible with your risk tolerance. This makes it easy to stay the course.
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein
scone
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by scone »

I keep my stock allocation at about 30%, which reflects my real risk tolerance, not the tolerance I imagine I have, when things are going well.
"My bond allocation is the amount of money that I cannot afford to lose." -- Taylor Larimore
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Babakhani
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Babakhani »

livesoft wrote:I understand what The Course is and I understand what The Course has been. If you don't understand The Course, then there is no hope of Stay The Course. There will be no understanding of what The Course will be.

I can watch all the news, read all the articles, hang out at Bogleheads, and still not have my mind changed about The Course. I own The Course. The Course does not own me.

And Your Course is not my The Course.
Love it :sharebeer

I am too busy in my life to give thought to the market. I put money into the market in January and I rebalance once, if I have time, in July. Rest of the time is work, kids, triathlon, football.
What is light without dark?
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gasman
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by gasman »

It's easy when there is little volatility. When there is lots of it, I grit my teeth and bear it. Knowing that it is the best strategy, but not enjoying the ride.
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

I get as excited as a kid in the candy shop, just marveling at all the extra shares I will be buying with all these 5,10,20,50% off sales that crop up from time to time.

I don't watch CNBC.
I don't listen to the pundits.
I want to see my "share" count increase when I get my statements.
I have an IPS - I review that twice a year and adjust it as goals are reached.
I have an asset allocation plan - I re-balance when it gets off kilter.
Experts are saying - "experts"? There are NO experts, just people with opinions - their crystal ball is as cloudy as mine. In other words, they are just blowing hot air.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Michread
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Michread »

Rodc wrote:Investments are set up automatically.

If markets are crashing badly enough stop looking...

Yup, this is what we've done. In 2000 and 2008 we stopped looking with the attitude of it's a paper loss but if we change course it REALLY is a loss! TIme was/is on our side until we need that money (which we didn't/don't YET).
Early retirement 2018
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swimirvine
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by swimirvine »

I'm in a unique situation in that I get monthly bonus checks. These can vary by 10x so while I have a lot of my investments on "automatic contribution" and some of them also automatically re-balance, with the bonus money I have to choose the amount I invest and where to invest it.

On the 1st of every month I take all of the money in my checking account that is above my desired emergency cash amount and this is what I invest.
I made and excel spreadsheet that helps me calculate where to put the money. I update the values of all my holdings and it gives me my current asset allocation.
I enter the amount of money I have to invest and it divides it up into the holdings that are below my desired percentage based on how much they are off balance.

I created this plan which may not be perfect but I stick to it. I find that every month I'm putting money into the areas that are "down" ... i.e. buying low. I haven't had to actually re-balance yet because of this. All of my holdings are within 1-3% of what they should be. I'm sure there will come a day when the market goes nuts and I have to do some actual re-balancing. I've chosen absolute 5% or relative 15% as my trigger points. (so if I want Vanguard Total Stock Market to be 40%, I would re-balance if it went to 35% or 45%. If I want Vanguard REIT index to be 8%, I would re-balance if it goes to 9.2% or 6.8%.)

Basically, create you're own plan which will not be perfect but it doesn't have to be. Then whenever you are tempted to deviate, re-read your plan. If you need more help, post messages here on Bogleheads.org and there are plenty of people that will encourage you and help you resist the temptation to chase returns or let your asset allocation get too far out of whack.

Also - I don't watch ANY financial news shows. I read articles occasionally on WSJ and Morningstar but I avoid articles with titles like "The 10 hot mutual funds for 2014!." I mostly read articles that have the words "index funds" in them and articles with titles like "The 10 most common mistakes people make when planning for retirement."
The way I invest my money is not the right way to invest, it's the right way for ME to invest.
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NAVigator
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by NAVigator »

I have a well developed IPS which provides, in writing, what to "do", which usually means "just sit there".

I retired at 56 and I fill my time with what interests me. Television generally wastes that valuable time, so I won't own one. There is less "noise" to listen to, so it is easy to ignore.

Jerry
"I was born with nothing and I have most of it left."
kaudrey
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by kaudrey »

Michread wrote:
Rodc wrote:Investments are set up automatically.

If markets are crashing badly enough stop looking...

+1

I don't think I looked at my portfolio for most of 2008 (except to update my year-end charts - not pretty).
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telemark
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by telemark »

One other trick: if you do follow the financial media, look for opposing opinions. One of the interesting things about investing is that for every smart, knowledgeable guy saying one thing, you can find an equally smart and knowledgeable guy saying nearly the exact opposite. And they both have logical, convincing arguments to back their forecasts. One of the reasons I read Barry Ritholtz's blog is that he regularly follows a link to one opinion with "but see also" and a link to an opposing view. If you find yourself believing that "everyone agrees that..." or "everyone is saying that...", you aren't reading widely enough.
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LH
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by LH »

basically, I just realize that

1) Timing does not work

2) that I am guarnateed as a human, to want to time for blah blah blah, where blah blah blah is some highly rational sounding reason why this times its different.

3) that the market WILL suck horribly at times

4) I gameplay my portfolio mentally. I say, how would I like to hold this in the great depression. How would I like to hold this when stocks boom 17 percent for 17 years like the 80s 90s. How would I feel with this portfolio in the 70s stagflation. You look for something that equally sucks. Its why I can add in gold, when I really feel/hope that gold will drop near medium term, let me know in 20 years what happens.

5) I realize that no one has a clue as to what is coming. This means me. This means the guy on cnbc. This means the fed. etc.

6) That passive indexing is merely the best of bad alternatives, and that passive indexing may not work. there is no guarantee. This risk may show up, and not go away in ones financial lifetime.



Once one realizes and accepts all that, it is what it is. There is nothing you can rationally do but buy and hold. It may not work out. But you cannot steer by looking in the rear view mirror.

All the evidence shows passive indexing is the best approach expectantly.
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nedsaid
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by nedsaid »

A part of my retirement is a Brokerage IRA with an independent broker. He is about my age and has been in the investment business his entire career. I have worked with him probably 16 or so years. His knowledge and experience has been very helpful in staying the course and not selling at the bottom. The rest of my retirement funds are invested in index funds and no-load mutual funds. So I have been a mix of do-it-yourself and getting advice. There is something about calling your money.
A fool and his money are good for business.
staythecourse
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by staythecourse »

My advice: Have a baby!!

My wife and I had our first more then a year ago. I did not realize stocks were up so much or gold was down so much until end of the year when I checked on Morningstar my fund's yearly performance. With a job, my wife working full time, a child to run after I have no clue how anyone even keeps up with everyday stuff. I have no time to watch the markets everyday.

One other thing I have noticed is I only look at my accounts once a month. I tally up all the values in a legal pad use a calculator and determine where new money needs to go to get back to my static asset allocation. I NEVER use dollars or commas. I look at them as just digits and not money so no emotion is attached to the numbers.

Another thing is I remind myself in the accumulation period (which I am in) I am accumulating SHARES and not DOLLARS. The point is to accumulate as many SHARES of stuff and not DOLLARS. Market tanks and that means I get to buy more shares with the same amount of money (instead of looking at it as losing money on a balance sheet).

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
Professor Emeritus
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Professor Emeritus »

cfs wrote:Leaders, good morning/afternoon/evening

Thanks for asking and keep all those good questions coming. Staying the course--we can start by using some nautical terms. Before getting underway, make sure you have an up-to-date set of nautical charts. Follow your PIM or plan of intended movement, make course corrections only to prevent shipping--a collision at sea can really ruin your entire day. Now, that works at sea, but in investing I learned to stay the course, because every time I changed course it resulted in an ugly collision--and a collision can really ruin your entire day.

Thanks for reading.
I am afraid you are mixing your metaphors
Staying the course is horse racing, not a nautical term.
The Grand National Steeplechase is the most grueling horse race in the world.
"Stay the course" has always referred to a horse and rider who could finish the 4 mile race and its 40 jumps Do a Google of "stay the course" grand national steeplechase and you will see the many references
The wiki entry on Stay the course is nonsense since it ignores the far older turf usage.

From 1850

Abd El Kader lay among the 'any price these others' category as to be so unconsidered that the Bookmakers did not see fit to offer a price to the public. With Chris Green in the saddle they began attracting attention during the race with Bookmakers offering odds of 20/1 in running until it became gradually clear that the Irish entry might stay the course and win.
cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1850_Grand_National
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RyeWhiskey
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by RyeWhiskey »

I only own the same fund in two separate tax shelters. Hence the course is simple and easy to keep. I also put a very small portion of money aside (5% of my total liquid assets, not counting EF) to "play" with. Then when I think the course needs changing I modify the 5% while the rest sails clear forward. :beer
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kdmusic
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by kdmusic »

50/50 Asset Allocation works for me.

kdm
MnD
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by MnD »

Everything is on autopilot.
I digest a lot of investment information as interest/entertainment, but very rarely ever do anything that would alter my plan.
I might do something (moderate adjustment) every 10 years or so after thinking about it for several years.
70/30 AA for life, Global market cap equity. Rebalance if fixed income <25% or >35%. Weighted ER< .10%. 5% of annual portfolio balance SWR, Proportional (to AA) withdrawals.
CdnAppraiser
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by CdnAppraiser »

I created a List of Rules I have to Follow:

Automatic monthly investments

Lump Sums get invested right away (rebalance Portfolio)

Asset Allocation and ETFs are selected and I don't change them

I made a few simple rules I follow (one being a min amount to be invested per year, find extra money in a bear market)

I only read articles by index investors (rick Ferri, Canadian Couch Potato, Andrew Hallam)

Don't watch any of the garbage on TV about investing (or you will be listening to Mr. Market)

Rebalance once per year if no lump sum

MOST IMPORTANT: Find something to do to keep my mind off money (fly fishing, golf, hunting, cooking, family, etc).
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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

By avoiding the goal of achieving maximum return. My objective is to adequately fund my future needs and, within reason, wants. I'm most of the way there, thanks to prior savings followed by these two consecutive years of double digit equity gains. I do not count on seeing the like again.
PJW
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Alskar
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Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Alskar »

Being older helps. I've been through a few cycles of the market already. Each time I come out on the other side far richer because I "stayed the course". This is positive reinforcement for continuing to "stay the course". I think this is why Rick Ferri's "Flight Path" model has younger investors in more conservative AA's...it gets them safely through a few cycles so they learn not to freak out when the inevitable downturn arrives.

I also make great use of Fidelity' s individual tax lot tracking. They offer it even on tax advantaged accounts. Using the lot code tracking I can see how well rebalancing has worked for me. I have a lot of VTI that I purchased on March 5, 2009 (roughly the bottom of the market) that is up over 110%. That is positive reinforcement!

Unlike others here, I check my online balance at least once a day (often 2-3 times a day), listen to CNBC, read the WSJ, but I almost never trade. I find these pompous talking heads that think they can predict the future very entertaining! I especially enjoy watching them justify why their previous predictions were wrong. I laugh and laugh and laugh! Cramer makes me laugh so hard my sides ache!
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leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:56 am

Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by leonard »

spend 30 minutes rebalancing once a year. Do nothing the rest of the year.

How much "strategy" does that require?
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.
Fallible
Posts: 8795
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:44 pm

Re: How do you "Stay the Course"?

Post by Fallible »

Learn to tell the difference between "noise" news that focuses mainly on the market's meaningless short-term ups and downs, and informative and instructive news that focuses on investing for the long term and on the fine points of the Boglehead philosophy. The "noise" tempts you to try to time the market; the good news shows you how to invest wisely so you can ignore the "noise" and stay the course.

Here's one of those informative news articles on "How To Use The News And Tune Out The Noise" from Jason Zweig, now a WSJ columnist, author and Boglehead. It was written in 1998, but "noise" now was "noise" then, too: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag ... 01/244543/

And another from Boglehead pro Rick Ferri written this year: http://www.rickferri.com/blog/strategy/ ... l-with-it/
"Yes, investing is simple. But it is not easy, for it requires discipline, patience, steadfastness, and that most uncommon of all gifts, common sense." ~Jack Bogle
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