Vanguard merged Mutual fund + brokerage - anyone have yet?

boggler · Post by **boggler** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:12 pm

Vanguard recently told me they're in the process of testing a merged account system where the mutual fund side isn't distinct from Vanguard Brokerage. Has anyone experienced this yet? What's it like?

livesoft · Post by **livesoft** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:30 pm

I think they call it Fidelity which is a catchy name for the combined setup.

boggler · Post by **boggler** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:35 pm

livesoft wrote:I think they call it Fidelity which is a catchy name for the combined setup.

Too bad "Fidelity" comes with higher fees and doesn't have access to all the Vanguard funds and free ETF trades...

robertalpert · Post by **robertalpert** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:42 pm

When I asked a rep, he said they are offering it slowly, to about 1% of account holders, and that I do not qualify. (Perhaps they are looking for investors that trade a lot.) The rep said it may be offered more generally to those interested later in 2014. (But didn't know what month).

ResearchMed · Post by **ResearchMed** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:47 pm

Someone posted a link on here (this Forum) a while ago, so I clicked, and it took me to an "invitation".

Entered one of our account numbers, one for a very small IRA, as a trial.

It is very simple, and seems to make MUCH more sense.

ALL of the holdings (not many, to be sure) are listed together, except for the money market fund, which is in a separate box at the top.

I have not yet tried to make any changes/additions to the holdings, so I don't know if it all settles overnight or if there is still a delay for mutual funds.

I also haven't tried it for an account that has a combination of IRA and 403b accounts.

The change was "done" by the next business day.

RM

boggler · Post by **boggler** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:50 pm

boggler wrote:
livesoft wrote:I think they call it Fidelity which is a catchy name for the combined setup.
Too bad "Fidelity" comes with higher fees and doesn't have access to all the Vanguard funds and free ETF trades...

Actually, the biggest reason is just that I feel like Vanguard actually cares about costs, whereas Fidelity only has low costs when they have to I can order to compete. As a result, they charge you for things when they can, regardless of whether it is truly justified. For a long term relationship like my investment house, that means a lot in terms of peace of mind, knowing I'm not going to suddenly get screwed on fees.

boggler · Post by **boggler** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:52 pm

ResearchMed wrote:Someone posted a link on here (this Forum) a while ago, so I clicked, and it took me to an "invitation".

Entered one of our account numbers, one for a very small IRA, as a trial.

It is very simple, and seems to make MUCH more sense.

ALL of the holdings (not many, to be sure) are listed together, except for the money market fund, which is in a separate box at the top.

I have not yet tried to make any changes/additions to the holdings, so I don't know if it all settles overnight or if there is still a delay for mutual funds.

I also haven't tried it for an account that has a combination of IRA and 403b accounts.

The change was "done" by the next business day.

RM

Got the link, by any chance?

Or at least a screenshot?

Angst · Post by **Angst** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:05 pm

Does this thread/post have the link we're looking for?

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 1#p1849803

Edit: Here's the link:
https://investor.vanguard.com/info/account-upgrade

ResearchMed · Post by **ResearchMed** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:06 pm

Angst wrote:Does this thread/post have the link we're looking for?

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 1#p1849803

Yes, thank you.

That is the link I used.

Thanks!

RM

Ken. · Post by **Ken.** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:22 pm

Yes I did a few months ago. The layout is much more consolidated on the page where you view all your accounts, especially if you had mutual funds, plus stocks or etfs, which used to be in separate tables. It's now in one table, except for your money market sweep account, if I remember correctly.

Paul Basenberg · Post by **Paul Basenberg** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:09 pm

Greetings,

I signed up about a year ago. Love it. Each account (taxable,ira,and roth ira) is linked to a brokerage account. The MM in each account is common to both mutual funds and brokerage. Stocks and ETFs settle in one day, mutual funds in three.

Regards,Paul

mikep · Post by **mikep** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:12 pm

I tried through the link and it said I wasn't eligible. Guess it is by invite or chance only.

ResearchMed · Post by **ResearchMed** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:26 pm

Interesting.

I just tried upgrading a *different* account of ours, and got a message that none of the [remaining] accounts could be upgraded.

Odd.

RM

JamesSFO · Post by **JamesSFO** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:33 pm

livesoft wrote:I think they call it Fidelity which is a catchy name for the combined setup.

I'm glad I wasn't drinking milk while reading this it would have snorted out. Awesome Livesoft, awesome.

nisiprius · Post by **nisiprius** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:35 pm

I'm glad to see Vanguard doing this. It's one of the things I'd hoped would happen when they created their own in-house brokerage operation--when was that? Late 2008, early 2009. (For years, "Vanguard Brokerage Services" was a private-badged operation actually run by a firm called Pershing).

But I can't imagine why anyone would want to be "first on the block" to move to the new platform. There are certain to be glitches. Let someone else be the pioneer.

Yes. I. Am. Old.

geoff2 · Post by **geoff2** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:41 pm

ResearchMed wrote:Interesting.

I just tried upgrading a *different* account of ours, and got a message that none of the [remaining] accounts could be upgraded.

Odd.

RM

Hmmm. Same here, although this was the first account that I tried to merge (one brokerage, one mutual fund, one MM fund).

Paul Basenberg · Post by **Paul Basenberg** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:02 pm

Greetings,

Not sure why some of you are having trouble. Maybe you should call Vanguard and speak to a rep. I signed on after Pershing was eliminated. I had experience with Pershing about ten years ago and didn't like it. As far as glitches go i haven't had a problem. I am very satisfied with the account linking.

Regards, Paul

indexfundfan · Post by **indexfundfan** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:11 pm

nisiprius wrote: But I can't imagine why anyone would want to be "first on the block" to move to the new platform. There are certain to be glitches. Let someone else be the pioneer.

I upgraded the taxable account last year. For the 2014 tax return, I would only have one 1099 to deal with instead of two.

boggler · Post by **boggler** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:38 pm

Paul Basenberg wrote:Greetings,

I signed up about a year ago. Love it. Each account (taxable,ira,and roth ira) is linked to a brokerage account. The MM in each account is common to both mutual funds and brokerage. Stocks and ETFs settle in one day, mutual funds in three.

Regards,Paul

ETFs only settle in one day?

JamesSFO · Post by **JamesSFO** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:45 pm

boggler wrote:
Paul Basenberg wrote:Greetings,

I signed up about a year ago. Love it. Each account (taxable,ira,and roth ira) is linked to a brokerage account. The MM in each account is common to both mutual funds and brokerage. Stocks and ETFs settle in one day, mutual funds in three.

Regards,Paul
ETFs only settle in one day?

My guess is Paul got this backwards, MF are T+1, Stocks/ETFs are T+3. The improvement is I believe you can use stock/ETF proceeds towards a MF purchase during the T+3, read the linked Upgrade page for info.

Paul Basenberg · Post by **Paul Basenberg** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:49 pm

Greetings,

You got it correct, i am backwards. ETFs 3 days, MF 1 day. Thanks,Paul.

klneutral · Post by **klneutral** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:14 pm

Actually, I spoke with my rep just today about this.

I was told that because I have a lot of accounts, I will probably be among the last people to be offered consolidation. It sounds like they are focusing first on converting some people with just one mutual fund account and one brokerage account. Now they wait to see what "back end" problems are caused and work to resolve those before moving ahead. No timetable was given for how fast this might be rolled out to the rest of us.

I guess I am in the camp of not wanting to be a pioneer. I was once told that you can always tell pioneers--they're the ones with arrows in their backs.

stan1 · Post by **stan1** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:40 pm

I have to task the Quicken question:
Does anyone who has been converted to the "single mutual fund/brokerage" account use Quicken? If so, how did the conversion go?

chipmonk · Post by **chipmonk** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:00 am

klneutral wrote:I was told that because I have a lot of accounts, I will probably be among the last people to be offered consolidation. It sounds like they are focusing first on converting some people with just one mutual fund account and one brokerage account. Now they wait to see what "back end" problems are caused and work to resolve those before moving ahead. No timetable was given for how fast this might be rolled out to the rest of us.

Seems like a pretty reasonable and cautious approach. Vanguard is practically the only company I've ever done business with that is (from my perspective) slightly too slow and cautious in rolling out new products or ways of doing things... no complaints from me.

klneutral wrote:I guess I am in the camp of not wanting to be a pioneer. I was once told that you can always tell pioneers--they're the ones with arrows in their backs.

nisiprius wrote:But I can't imagine why anyone would want to be "first on the block" to move to the new platform. There are certain to be glitches. Let someone else be the pioneer.

Yes. I. Am. Old.

Me too. I'm young, and I work in the tech industry, and yet "don't be an early adopter" is practically my personal motto. I especially like buying year-old Android phones for about 20% of the original price from the chumps who buy them new

.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:42 am

klneutral wrote:Actually, I spoke with my rep just today about this.

I was told that because I have a lot of accounts, I will probably be among the last people to be offered consolidation. It sounds like they are focusing first on converting some people with just one mutual fund account and one brokerage account. Now they wait to see what "back end" problems are caused and work to resolve those before moving ahead. No timetable was given for how fast this might be rolled out to the rest of us.

I guess I am in the camp of not wanting to be a pioneer. I was once told that you can always tell pioneers--they're the ones with arrows in their backs.

Great news, now all I have to do is to consolidate all our five accounts at Fidelity and we will be eligible for three combined accounts at Vanguard. (His, hers and ours.) Oh no, one is only a mutual fund account so it still won't be eligible.

placeholder · Post by **placeholder** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:09 pm

I don't have any holdings directly with Vanguard so I don't really care.

ResearchMed · Post by **ResearchMed** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:16 pm

Doc wrote:
klneutral wrote:Actually, I spoke with my rep just today about this.

I was told that because I have a lot of accounts, I will probably be among the last people to be offered consolidation. It sounds like they are focusing first on converting some people with just one mutual fund account and one brokerage account. Now they wait to see what "back end" problems are caused and work to resolve those before moving ahead. No timetable was given for how fast this might be rolled out to the rest of us.

I guess I am in the camp of not wanting to be a pioneer. I was once told that you can always tell pioneers--they're the ones with arrows in their backs.
Great news, now all I have to do is to consolidate all our five accounts at Fidelity and we will be eligible for three combined accounts at Vanguard. (His, hers and ours.) Oh no, one is only a mutual fund account so it still won't be eligible.

I think they could each person's account separately.

The one that was "converted" was a small IRA, with both Vanguard mutual funds and a Brokerage side with "other".

The one that couldn't (yet?) be converted was a mix of IRA and 403b, which were included in the same "account", but in separate sections, so that was 4 sections, a Vanguard section and a Brokerage section within each. And the 403b was further subdivided into Employer contribution and Employee contribution.

RM

JamesSFO · Post by **JamesSFO** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:30 pm

I managed to convince my Flagship representative to get me converted, the mutual funds are now out of my mutual fund area and will show up in another business day or so inside my brokerage account. It is still not fully rolled out to all customers.

micamica · Post by **micamica** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:03 am

I sent an inquiry to my rep about this, and in response got a "Next steps required to upgrade your account" message -- I had to log in and confirm/e-sign, and the conversion is now in process.

Just thought I'd post this in case there are others who want this brokerage+MF account consolidation.

shawcroft · Post by **shawcroft** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:51 pm

JamesSFO wrote:
livesoft wrote:I think they call it Fidelity which is a catchy name for the combined setup.
I'm glad I wasn't drinking milk while reading this it would have snorted out. Awesome Livesoft, awesome.

Indeed, Livesoft has a wonderfully wry sense of humor...
Shawcroft

JoMoney · Post by **JoMoney** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:38 pm

I've finally been fully converted... my IRA accounts were converted awhile back, I was looking forward to the cleaner look of having my brokerage account and mutual fund account merged. After it was done, and I found out that I would no longer be able to direct-deposit into my mutual fund or brokerage account I was a bit miffed. They said they're working to get this functionality added to the new brokerage accounts, but it's not there yet. So now I have to manually move money between my personal bank account and my mutual fund each pay day. It does allow for the option to setup an automatic draft from my bank account that I could align with my pay-day, but I'm not a fan of having automatic withdrawals, I want to be certain that I have the balance in my bank account before they draft against it.. further, my budget had me depositing a fixed sum in my bank account each payday and the balance left over deposited in the mutual fund - there is no way they can offer that with their scheduled drafts, because my paycheck is not a fixed amount each pay period.

msi · Post by **msi** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:03 pm

Mine was upgraded to combined mutual fund/brokerage. I did it over the phone after the site told me none of my accounts could be upgraded.

I like the new layout and functionality. They were a bit overdue for this.

DG99999 · Post by **DG99999** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:32 pm

robertalpert wrote:When I asked a rep, he said they are offering it slowly, to about 1% of account holders, and that I do not qualify. (Perhaps they are looking for investors that trade a lot.) The rep said it may be offered more generally to those interested later in 2014. (But didn't know what month).

Those darn 1 percenters . . .

FredL · Post by **FredL** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:36 pm

If you are BH, why you bother with the merge? Only the day trader may be.

JamesSFO · Post by **JamesSFO** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:35 am

FredL wrote:If you are BH, why you bother with the merge? Only the day trader may be.

Some of us hold more than just a 3-fund portfolio, for example I am a buy-and-hold investor in some ETFs, etc. It is more convenient to have a single account for ALL taxable, etc.

SpringMan · Post by **SpringMan** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:31 am

We were finally converted over to Vanguard brokerage accounts where our Vanguard funds and other holdings were merged. Here are some website bugs I have observed when logging in a about 7PM after all mutual fund NAVs have been determined. First the date on the overall tab was yesterday's date, making one think that the site was still not updated. Balances and holdings tab showed the correct date. Second and not a new issue was that non Vanguard mutual funds were not updated even though the NAV was known to sites like yahoo finance etc. Third even on accounts that have all Vanguard funds, the totals were incorrect. The totals were those of the previous day. Of course, that causes the grand total to be incorrect as well. Note that logging in the following morning around 8 am, the totals and stale fund updates were fixed by the overnight computer run.

I did call Vanguard an reported these issues. For the first time ever I had a long wait on the phone to talk to a flagship rep. Has Vanguard grown to fast to field phone calls timely? First the rep said it was because of dividends that the totals were wrong but that proved not to be the case. In effort to determine dividends, I went here. https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insigh ... ons-032015
Notice it says 2014 rather than 2015, a rather careless error in my opinion. The flagship rep said he would open a problem report on my issues. As a former Fidelity client that moved my accounts to Vanguard I am starting to question the wisdom of my decision.

Bonnan · Post by **Bonnan** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:13 am

Yes Springman, that has been my experience also. We were converted over in Nov 2014. New format is clunky in spots; much slower updating. For those with mutual funds only, I see no advantage. tax info is later coming, exchanges only within accounts and it really messed my checking writing procedure.
I also don't like the way they have tried to "dumb down" their website surfing.

Gropes & Ray · Post by **Gropes & Ray** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:23 am

I was "required" to convert last fall. The difference is negligible for me. I don't trade, though.

beyou · Post by **beyou** » Sun May 31, 2015 8:13 pm

Tried https://investor.vanguard.com/info/account-upgrade
and was told my account was not eligible to be converted.

Had existing taxable brokerage, taxable funds and a tIRA.
Guess that's too complex, was expecting to merge the taxable funds and brokerage,
and leave the IRA as-is. Was told to call and speak to a rep.

Not that important to me, to convert so not calling.

nisiprius · Post by **nisiprius** » Sun May 31, 2015 8:38 pm

To those who've converted: can you still set up automatic scheduled exchanges between funds?

RetiredinKaty · Post by **RetiredinKaty** » Sun May 31, 2015 11:43 pm

Nisiprius asked

To those who've converted: can you still set up automatic scheduled exchanges between funds?

Apparently no. I had to search the site for "automatic exchange". I clicked on the link and it says "the automatic exchange service isn't available for Vanguard brokerage accounts. If you would like to setup a similar service you can select automatic investment or automatic withdrawal."

JoMoney · Post by **JoMoney** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:27 am

nisiprius wrote:To those who've converted: can you still set up automatic scheduled exchanges between funds?

Nope. I can setup scheduled withdrawals to my bank account, and I can schedule automatic investments from my bank or the settlement money market fund... but I can't schedule exchanges between funds...
What irks me the most, is that I can no longer do direct deposit.
Until they get this feature added (which they said is being worked), I have to do an electronic funds transfer from Vanguard to have funds pulled from my bank account. I can schedule this to be 'automatic' but I'm not willing to do that, I prefer to verify I have funds in the source account first, and I would prefer not to be doing the transfer from Vanguard, but to do a 'push' from my bank to Vanguard.
I really don't understand why they don't have direct deposit available in the 'upgraded' accounts, it was previously available in non-upgraded brokerage and mutual fund accounts.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:41 am

JoMoney wrote:What irks me the most, is that I can no longer do direct deposit.
Until they get this feature added (which they said is being worked), I have to do an electronic funds transfer from Vanguard to have funds pulled from my bank account. I can schedule this to be 'automatic' but I'm not willing to do that, I prefer to verify I have funds in the source account first, and I would prefer not to be doing the transfer from Vanguard, but to do a 'push' from my bank to Vanguard.

Agreed. However after a long conversation with a Vanguard Broker, a somewhat shorter conversation with my banker and several weeks of testing automatic transfers from Broker "B" -> Bank -> Vanguard my anxiety has been reduced. But I prefer a pull from Vanguard then a push from the bank. I tried a push several years ago and the bank sent an OMG check. Besides with a pull you actually get to "spend" the money two days before the bank debit which allows a little room for something to go wrong.

(The bank push referred to was not a direct deposit but was supposed to be an EFT.)

Electron · Post by **Electron** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:02 pm

I'd be interested if anyone has updates to this topic. Here are a few questions that I am trying to resolve:

1. Would each Vanguard Mutual Fund IRA Account without a Money Market fund wind up with a new fund for the brokerage settlement account?
2. Do existing Vanguard Mutual Fund account numbers remain the same or change?
3. How are statements affected?
4. Is tax reporting simplified with everything on one 1099 Form?
5. I read that some features may not be supported. One example was Vanguard Mutual Fund distributions that were set up to automatically reinvest in a different Vanguard Mutual fund. Is this still the case?

Thanks for any information.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:26 am

Electron wrote:I'd be interested if anyone has updates to this topic. Here are a few questions that I am trying to resolve:

1. Would each Vanguard Mutual Fund IRA Account without a Money Market fund wind up with a new fund for the brokerage settlement account?
You will have one account for each IRA. It will have all you Vg Mutual Funds in it plus a MM account. (And of course any other thing you buy.)

2. Do existing Vanguard Mutual Fund account numbers remain the same or change?
You will not have any mutual fund accounts. Your MF's will be all in the one brokerage account. It will have its own number which will be new if you don't already have a VBS account now.)

3. How are statements affected?
After the first year you will have only one statement for each brokerage account. You will not have any mutual fund accounts only the mutual funds themselves.

4. Is tax reporting simplified with everything on one 1099 Form?
Duh.

5. I read that some features may not be supported. One example was Vanguard Mutual Fund distributions that were set up to automatically reinvest in a different Vanguard Mutual fund. Is this still the case?
You can reinvest in the same fund, transfer to your settlement fund (money market) or have them distribute $s to your bank account by EFT or to you by check. You can't transfer to another fund automatically.

Re: 5) They just reinstated direct deposit to the new VBS platform accounts. Maybe other changes will be forthcoming.

oneleaf · Post by **oneleaf** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:44 am

Doc wrote:
Electron wrote:I'd be interested if anyone has updates to this topic. Here are a few questions that I am trying to resolve:

1. Would each Vanguard Mutual Fund IRA Account without a Money Market fund wind up with a new fund for the brokerage settlement account?
You will have one account for each IRA. It will have all you Vg Mutual Funds in it plus a MM account. (And of course any other thing you buy.)

2. Do existing Vanguard Mutual Fund account numbers remain the same or change?
You will not have any mutual fund accounts. Your MF's will be all in the one brokerage account. It will have its own number which will be new if you don't already have a VBS account now.)

3. How are statements affected?
After the first year you will have only one statement for each brokerage account. You will not have any mutual fund accounts only the mutual funds themselves.

4. Is tax reporting simplified with everything on one 1099 Form?
Duh.

5. I read that some features may not be supported. One example was Vanguard Mutual Fund distributions that were set up to automatically reinvest in a different Vanguard Mutual fund. Is this still the case?
You can reinvest in the same fund, transfer to your settlement fund (money market) or have them distribute $s to your bank account by EFT or to you by check. You can't transfer to another fund automatically.
Re: 5) They just reinstated direct deposit to the new VBS platform accounts. Maybe other changes will be forthcoming.

Hey Doc,
Thanks for the answers. Regarding 4, can you clarify? VBS consolidates all distributions as one line item, whereas the old mutual fund account has a separate line for each fund. Is the consolidated account like a VBS account where there is only one set of distributions to put in our tax software?

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:57 pm

oneleaf wrote:Hey Doc,
Thanks for the answers. Regarding 4, can you clarify? VBS consolidates all distributions as one line item, whereas the old mutual fund account has a separate line for each fund. Is the consolidated account like a VBS account where there is only one set of distributions to put in our tax software?

I'm not sure I understand the question. For example once upon a time I received a separate 1099-DIV for each fund. Now I have only one. So there is only one number to put on your form for DIV's. (Well there's still line 1, line 2, line 5, whatever but I'm ignoring that.) All your dividends are on that single form. Same with 1099-INT.

I don't enter anything myself. I just tell TurboTax to download from Vanguard and it does it. I'm sure other tax software does the same.

Last year I got like 6 1099-DIVs for the mutual funds for the first 9 months of the year and then only a single form for the last 3 months after I had moved over to the new platform.

Ok maybe I see the "problem". You get only one piece of paper with all the mutual funds data on separate lines. But when TurboTax downloads the stuff it generates a separate 1099-DIV for each fund. On the new system you get only one 1099-DIV which has the totals. The detail is included on the new form in the detail section but you don't need that detail to do your taxes. All four forms: 1099-Int, 1099-Div, 1099-B (summary) and the 1099-OID (summary) are together on a single page on the VBS platform.

oneleaf · Post by **oneleaf** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:59 pm

Thanks Doc,
That explains it well. I like the VBS consolidated statement method so this is good news.

oneleaf · Post by **oneleaf** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:02 pm

Anyone do Roth conversions online with the new combined platform? Experiences? It is super easy with the old platform and I would hate to give this up.

Electron · Post by **Electron** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:31 pm

Doc - Thanks very much for the help. I did find the following FAQ which provides quite a bit of helpful information.

http://www.vanguard.com/pdf/faqbroch_122014.pdf

It looks like there are many small changes. New checkbooks for Money Market funds may be issued. The Tele-Account feature will no longer be supported for those that check transactions and balances using the telephone. Cost basis selection may initially change and then revert to another choice.

I hope that taxable account confirmations and statements still allow easy archiving of records on a per fund basis. Many people like to save confirmations or statements in a notebook or envelope.

It sounds as though we'll have two sets of statements the first year. That was also the case when Pershing was replaced with Vanguard brokerage.