Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

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statman
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Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by statman » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:35 pm

We received a letter from VG introducing their new Vanguard Personal Advisor Services. I called my Flagship rep to ask how this differs from the existing Vanguard Asset Management Services. Interesting conversation. VPAS has substantially lower fees (0.3% of assets). Client keeps his/her Flagship rep and also gets a regular CFP advisor. The portfolios are NOT simply generated by algorithm based on information supplied by the client, but are claimed to be personalized with client input allowed. Client is not committed until they agree with the plan the CFP suggests. The Flagship rep was blunt: unless you need trust services, there is no longer any reason to use VAMS now that VPAS is available. On the principle of "never be the first" I'd be happy if some brave Boglehead actually went through the process and reported.

user5027
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by user5027 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:42 pm

Something tells me that you were always the guy that came up with all the great ideas that got his friends in trouble. :wink:

pastafarian
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by pastafarian » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:06 pm

Edit-- uh, never mind.
Last edited by pastafarian on Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sans souliers
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by sans souliers » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:49 pm

Personally, my choice of financial adviser (once I reach the 2-comma club) will be the one whose advice got me to Flagship status already. Anybody can steer a ship in the middle of the deep water. For me, it's the one who's shown me how to navigate around the shoals and reefs that I want by my side.
Sometimes pessimism leaves me pretty well prepared for when things don't go my way, and pleasantly surprised when they do.

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mhc
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by mhc » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:35 pm

I got the letter also. I didn't realize there was a fee. I don't remember seeing that in the letter. I guess I'll be throwing the letter away. I am quite pleased with the free advice on this site.

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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by tfb » Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:01 pm

I called and got more info. I posted it to the new Bogleheads Blog. There's a hidden web page, a toll-free number, and a link to a 28-page brochure with many details. If you have other questions not covered by the web page or brochure, call and ask, and then share the answers here.

http://www.bogleheads.org/blog/vanguard ... ices-vpas/
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

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friar1610
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by friar1610 » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:03 pm

I'm perfectly comfortable managing things myself. However, one of my concerns is that if I predecease my wife (which the actuaries say will probably happen), she will not be interested in/capable of keeping up with things. (She's smarter than I am when it comes to things she's interested in; in spite of my numerous attempts to persuade her to learn about portfolios and portfolio management, she has steadfastly shown no interest.) I'm also concerned that at some point, an unscrupulous financial planner/annuity salesman/whatever will get ahold of her and persuade her to let them take over her finances. So, I'm thinking this service sounds pretty good if I could set something up to have it kick in after my demise so that she will have someone reputable holding her hand financially and also using the investment vehicles (index funds, I-Bonds, CDs) that I have. Has anyone thought of this service for a similar scenario?
Friar1610

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Wildebeest
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by Wildebeest » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:42 pm

friar1610 wrote:I'm perfectly comfortable managing things myself. However, one of my concerns is that if I predecease my wife (which the actuaries say will probably happen), she will not be interested in/capable of keeping up with things. (She's smarter than I am when it comes to things she's interested in; in spite of my numerous attempts to persuade her to learn about portfolios and portfolio management, she has steadfastly shown no interest.) I'm also concerned that at some point, an unscrupulous financial planner/annuity salesman/whatever will get ahold of her and persuade her to let them take over her finances. So, I'm thinking this service sounds pretty good if I could set something up to have it kick in after my demise so that she will have someone reputable holding her hand financially and also using the investment vehicles (index funds, I-Bonds, CDs) that I have. Has anyone thought of this service for a similar scenario?
All valid concerns. I wish I shared your comfort in managing the portfolio. I like to manage things myself but more because of cost than that I am comfortable with how I do it. While I like this Vanguard personal Advisor Service, I have not been impressed by the 2 financial plans ( free for Flag ship) Vanguard came up with in the past. ( I was impressed by the free however the Boglehead forum is free and is superior in depth and wisdom).

My spouse has no interest in Bogleheads but I am convinced that after my demise my slice and dice will become a Vanguard total stock market and Bond fund if taxes do not interfere.

May be Bogleheads. org should start a service in which they would get a 50 % of the 5 year/10 years in moneys they would save clients in investing costs. The moneys could go to the John C Bogle Foundation and start a Bogle award in the same vein as the Nobel price.
The Golden Rule: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

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tfb
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by tfb » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:29 pm

friar1610 wrote:I'm also concerned that at some point, an unscrupulous financial planner/annuity salesman/whatever will get ahold of her and persuade her to let them take over her finances. So, I'm thinking this service sounds pretty good if I could set something up to have it kick in after my demise so that she will have someone reputable holding her hand financially and also using the investment vehicles (index funds, I-Bonds, CDs) that I have.
Maybe you can get her started on a $100k account. Let her have the advisor relationship and know where to turn. Cheap insurance against an unscrupulous person getting in at the weakest moment.
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

Tim18
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by Tim18 » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:52 am

I have been moving all our investments to Vanguard over the past 3-4 months. Shortly, everything will be there in somewhat of a holding pattern. The gentleman helping to move these investment mentioned this service to me on Friday; said it was just being released and would I like information so it is wonderful to find this post even before he gets info to me.

While I have interest in lording over my investment I am not sure I am up to doing the initial work or understand taxable/tax advantaged investment, where everything should go and how to structure the investments for future withdrawal. So I will be giving this service a good look and the probability is on the higher side that I will take them up on the service. But once I am comfortable in my 3 fund set-up I think I can carry it forward and plan to do so.

I will try to let the group look over my shoulder if I go this route.

terrabiped
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by terrabiped » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:29 pm

tfb wrote:I called and got more info. I posted it to the new Bogleheads Blog. There's a hidden web page, a toll-free number, and a link to a 28-page brochure with many details. If you have other questions not covered by the web page or brochure, call and ask, and then share the answers here.

http://www.bogleheads.org/blog/vanguard ... ices-vpas/
Very informative blog post. If at some point in the future I decide I want this type of advisor, I would go with VG. There fee is competitive with all the trendy new discount advisor startups, and I have more trust in VG.

boggler
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by boggler » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:16 am

So, has anyone tried this service?

shawcroft
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Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by shawcroft » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:52 am

I've notice more comments about this service in the financial press and the thought is interesting to me- for the same reasons friar mentions below......
friar1610 wrote:However, one of my concerns is that if I predecease my wife (which the actuaries say will probably happen), she will not be interested in/capable of keeping up with things. (She's smarter than I am when it comes to things she's interested in; in spite of my numerous attempts to persuade her to learn about portfolios and portfolio management, she has steadfastly shown no interest.)
Has any of our colleagues signed on...or begun the process?
Shawcroft

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HardKnocker
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by HardKnocker » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:29 am

sans souliers wrote:Personally, my choice of financial adviser (once I reach the 2-comma club) will be the one whose advice got me to Flagship status already. Anybody can steer a ship in the middle of the deep water. For me, it's the one who's shown me how to navigate around the shoals and reefs that I want by my side.
Funny how once you have lots of money "advisors" pop out of the woodwork.
“Gold gets dug out of the ground, then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility.”--Warren Buffett

shawcroft
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by shawcroft » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:39 am

HardKnocker wrote:
sans souliers wrote:Personally, my choice of financial adviser (once I reach the 2-comma club) will be the one whose advice got me to Flagship status already. Anybody can steer a ship in the middle of the deep water. For me, it's the one who's shown me how to navigate around the shoals and reefs that I want by my side.
Funny how once you have lots of money "advisors" pop out of the woodwork.
I must be dense but, in candor, I cannot fathom what these two comments are trying to convey.

As Ricky Ricardo would say: "' Lucy, Splain!"

Shawcroft

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HardKnocker
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by HardKnocker » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:01 am

shawcroft wrote:
HardKnocker wrote:
sans souliers wrote:Personally, my choice of financial adviser (once I reach the 2-comma club) will be the one whose advice got me to Flagship status already. Anybody can steer a ship in the middle of the deep water. For me, it's the one who's shown me how to navigate around the shoals and reefs that I want by my side.
Funny how once you have lots of money "advisors" pop out of the woodwork.
I must be dense but, in candor, I cannot fathom what these two comments are trying to convey.

As Ricky Ricardo would say: "' Lucy, Splain!"

Shawcroft
My response is in reference to san souliers' post. It is not in direct response to the OP post.

The fact that everyone wants to "help" once you have lots of money. But these same folks were nowhere to be found when you were without funds. Where were they when you were broke and needed advice?

Once you have $1 million the CFPs and investment advisors all want to "help" you. Do you get free dinner invitations to investment seminars? If not you will once you reach certain asset levels.

So "what got you here will keep you here" as the saying goes. Keep listening to those that made you wealthy (perhaps yourself), not the newly minted CFP/registered rep/insurance agent/bank rep who hasn't two nickels of his own money to rub together and gets his "advice" out of a book or a two-week investment seminar.

Once you have money everyone wants to help you out of it. Be careful and watch your back.

And now, back to our regular programming... :wink:
“Gold gets dug out of the ground, then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility.”--Warren Buffett

fundtalk
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by fundtalk » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:29 am

Anybody can steer a ship in the middle of the deep water.
Really? Pretty sure that was shown to not be true, and with horribly tragic consequences, earlier this week.

Tim18
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by Tim18 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:38 am

So I will be giving this service a good look and the probability is on the higher side that I will take them up on the service. But once I am comfortable in my 3 fund set-up I think I can carry it forward and plan to do so.

I will try to let the group look over my shoulder if I go this route.
Tim18
So, has anyone tried this service?
As I proceeded with the 3 fund approach with the free service I am getting from Vanguard to move my funds I have yet to get to the point of thinking I need something more or even better. I speak with CFP as we make the move and another Vanguard rep is doing the work to move the files. In about a week that will be done then I sign off on the plan we have developed and start the final process.

Tim18

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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by shawcroft » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:59 pm

HardKnocker wrote:So "what got you here will keep you here" as the saying goes. Keep listening to those that made you wealthy (perhaps yourself), not the newly minted CFP/registered rep/insurance agent/bank rep who hasn't two nickels of his own money to rub together and gets his "advice" out of a book or a two-week investment seminar.

Once you have money everyone wants to help you out of it. Be careful and watch your back.
HardKnocker:
Thanks for the clarification. Your observation is quite true.....lots of folks out there ready to give "advice" on "wealth management",, much of which is artfully disguised ways to effect "wealth transfer" (transfer from you to them).
Returning to the subject of the original post, it appears none of our colleagues to date have availed themselves of the new VG Personal Advisor Services. Perhaps someone will comment on this in time when experience is available
Shawcroft

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BL
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by BL » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:10 pm

TFB (see post above) has tried and written about this service on his blog: http://thefinancebuff.com/vanguard-fina ... ation.html

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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by EyeDee » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:18 pm

BL wrote:TFB (see post above) has tried and written about this service on his blog: http://thefinancebuff.com/vanguard-fina ... ation.html
.
Are you sure? I thought what The Finance Buff was covering in that link was Vanguard's Financial Plan Service. Personal Advisor Services involves Vanguard actually managing the money which is something different. I could be mistaken and he tried both, but I would think with a name like The Finance Buff that he would not be ready to let Vanguard manage his money unless he is getting too old or tired to handle it.

What might be confusing things is that he also provided a link to the Vanguard Advisor Services earlier in this conversation.
Randy

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BL
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by BL » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:48 pm

No, I am not sure but you could look at the several articles listed on the side. I will bow out as I am not sure now what you or he are looking at and I have no particular interest at this time.

Here is from Part 4:
The advisor answered both investment and non-investment questions in the consultation session. After one session that comes with the financial plan, you get continued access to the advisor either by having Vanguard manage your accounts for 0.3% per year ($100k minimum) or through the free Ask a CFP Professional service offered only to Voyager Select or Flagship customers ($500k or more at Vanguard).

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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by tfb » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:39 pm

EyeDee wrote:I thought what The Finance Buff was covering in that link was Vanguard's Financial Plan Service. Personal Advisor Services involves Vanguard actually managing the money which is something different.
True, and the titles of the articles said so. A recent post from another thread said Vanguard is merging the team that handles the Financial Plan service with the team that handles the Asset Management Service. The process would be the same: a questionnaire, a draft plan, a consultation, a final plan, and if you decide to use ongoing management, they will take over managing the accounts.
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

Andymoler58
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by Andymoler58 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:44 pm

HardKnocker wrote:
shawcroft wrote:
HardKnocker wrote:
sans souliers wrote:Personally, my choice of financial adviser (once I reach the 2-comma club) will be the one whose advice got me to Flagship status already. Anybody can steer a ship in the middle of the deep water. For me, it's the one who's shown me how to navigate around the shoals and reefs that I want by my side.
Funny how once you have lots of money "advisors" pop out of the woodwork.
I must be dense but, in candor, I cannot fathom what these two comments are trying to convey.

As Ricky Ricardo would say: "' Lucy, Splain!"

Shawcroft
My response is in reference to san souliers' post. It is not in direct response to the OP post.

The fact that everyone wants to "help" once you have lots of money. But these same folks were nowhere to be found when you were without funds. Where were they when you were broke and needed advice?

Once you have $1 million the CFPs and investment advisors all want to "help" you. Do you get free dinner invitations to investment seminars? If not you will once you reach certain asset levels.

So "what got you here will keep you here" as the saying goes. Keep listening to those that made you wealthy (perhaps yourself), not the newly minted CFP/registered rep/insurance agent/bank rep who hasn't two nickels of his own money to rub together and gets his "advice" out of a book or a two-week investment seminar.

Once you have money everyone wants to help you out of it. Be careful and watch your back.

And now, back to our regular programming... :wink:

I like this post and it's so true. I like how most advisors try to paint this picture of how successful they are and their gods gift to green earth. Not all, but most, and of course they only want to help when they know you have money.


If you could just follow bank earnings reports, you would see that they have 25-30 pct margins on their "wealth management" services.

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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by Andymoler58 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:50 pm

shawcroft wrote:
HardKnocker wrote:So "what got you here will keep you here" as the saying goes. Keep listening to those that made you wealthy (perhaps yourself), not the newly minted CFP/registered rep/insurance agent/bank rep who hasn't two nickels of his own money to rub together and gets his "advice" out of a book or a two-week investment seminar.

Once you have money everyone wants to help you out of it. Be careful and watch your back.
HardKnocker:
Thanks for the clarification. Your observation is quite true.....lots of folks out there ready to give "advice" on "wealth management",, much of which is artfully disguised ways to effect "wealth transfer" (transfer from you to them).
Returning to the subject of the original post, it appears none of our colleagues to date have availed themselves of the new VG Personal Advisor Services. Perhaps someone will comment on this in time when experience is available
Shawcroft
Do people really think a couple of magic letters like "CFP" make any difference in an investors financial acumen.
As Charlie Munger points out, investing is very simple but people have to justify themselves so they create big textbooks and standards to make things seem more confusing than what they really are.

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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by Andymoler58 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:57 pm

I had a couple of calls with them a couple years ago about a large account.

I wasn't that impressed. Just a bunch of generic talk on long term investing and really high fees considering that there only picking index funds. The assets all have to be custodied at vanguard so you can't have the option of using leverage to buy things off your account

This was a highly concentrated 1 stock portfolio too that needed diversified so some hand holding was necessary and it was tough to get that when there in another state. The CFP does not have much merit in my book.

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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by HardKnocker » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:24 am

Please do not take my reply to SanSoulier's post as a slam against Vanguard. It was a general comment about financial advisors. I am constantly receiving solicitations from financial advisors who want to "help me out".

If I felt the need of financial advisory services I would feel comfortable with Vanguard.
“Gold gets dug out of the ground, then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility.”--Warren Buffett

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