What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

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letsgobobby
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby letsgobobby » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:06 pm

MathWizard wrote:Sans gifts/inheritances, this is really a measure of how long a person has been investing, since
as the length of time of investment gets large:
the numerator is exponential in time, and
the denominator is linear in time.

Eventually this would surpass any fixed percentage.

right but you could collect enough data points to produce a curve with age on the x axis and percentage on the y axis.

MnD
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby MnD » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:17 pm

MathWizard wrote:Sans gifts/inheritances, this is really a measure of how long a person has been investing


Also how much and how well.
My neighbor invested almost exclusively in real estate developments and lost everything in the late 2000's, including his unmortgaged large primary residence and several vehicles which he had to sell to salvage a post-crash lifestyle of one vehicle and living in a tiny condo with no garage. I doubt his wealth conversion percentage is too glowing, despite decades of investing.

MathWizard
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby MathWizard » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:07 pm

MnD wrote:
MathWizard wrote:Sans gifts/inheritances, this is really a measure of how long a person has been investing


Also how much and how well.
My neighbor invested almost exclusively in real estate developments and lost everything in the late 2000's, including his unmortgaged large primary residence and several vehicles which he had to sell to salvage a post-crash lifestyle of one vehicle and living in a tiny condo with no garage. I doubt his wealth conversion percentage is too glowing, despite decades of investing.


Yes, you are quite correct, in that the rate of return is also in the exponent of the numerator.

I was assuming this meant for members of this forum, who ascribe to make the market return minus expenses.

Of course, the decade you started investing also makes a great deal of difference. If the early contributions were during a
time of low stock valuations, or high valuations, makes a huge different in the return you would get.

MnD
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby MnD » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:14 pm

4 years later still 58%. Pleased with net worth progression but 4 peak earnings years for both of us and weak international equity performance (we are global market cap weighted) kept the wealth to cumulative income ratio in check. College costs wrapped up in 2016 - whew......

Snowjob
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby Snowjob » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:15 pm

MnD wrote:4 years later still 58%. Pleased with net worth progression but 4 peak earnings years for both of us and weak international equity performance (we are global market cap weighted) kept the wealth to cumulative income ratio in check. College costs wrapped up in 2016 - whew......


I don't recall where I was when I first read this threat, however as I am far more domestic oriented then you (probably in 90%+ range) I have seen this ratio tilt in the investments favor. I inflation adjusted my gross income (12 yrs working) and I'm a tad north of 100% right now. Its a comforting efficiency metric to see that I have lived for a dozen years and still have retained all the purchasing power I had from my employment. Of course this could swing the other way immediately in a big correction given a fairly high equity exposure but for now its nice!

Portfolio7
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby Portfolio7 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:28 pm

So, this is kind of interesting. Since I track that information already, in the form specified, I just had to divide the income by NW for each year to get 23 years worth of data. I won't claim the data is perfect, but it's calculated consistently, and covers from Age 27 to Age 49. We just jumped to 44% as of the end of the year.

% of Lifetime Earnings in Savings 27% /28% /30% /32% /34% /36% / :( 30% /29% /27% /33% /34% /33% /33% /33% / :( 28% /30% /30% /31% /33% / :) 37% /39% /39% / :D 44%

The impact of the dot.com growth and crash are pretty evident, as is the great recession. NW has grown roughly proportional to lifetime earnings; until recently we've been treading water. However, the surge 4 years ago was the start of our business; and then we hit on all cylinders last year - Investments, Business, House; all grew significantly in value.

Dottie57
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby Dottie57 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:22 pm

Surprisingly 61%. Includes retirement, savings, home. Interesting calculation.

ryman554
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby ryman554 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:36 am

I'm at about 70%+ ish.

income = sum of medicare earnings (not adjusted for inflation). Close enough.
NW = assets - liabilities. Ignores stuff around the house (including cars) which are hard to value. Close enough.

that income tax + mortgage drag is tough to overcome.

Frisco Kid
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby Frisco Kid » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:58 am

I see the original poster included home equity in their calculations.While this exercise might be interesting to some, how does one compare their number to others given the radical REGIONAL variations in home values, ages and incomes?

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby MnD » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:46 am

Frisco Kid wrote:I see the original poster included home equity in their calculations.While this exercise might be interesting to some, how does one compare their number to others given the radical REGIONAL variations in home values, ages and incomes?


It's not uncommon for two next door neighbors of the same age, income and length of home ownership to have radically different levels of home equity.
The "saver" uses income to pay down debt and builds wealth through both home appreciation and debt reduction.
The "spender" treats his/her home as an ATM, not only failing to pay down debt but also extracts home appreciation by serial refinancings and/or equity credit lines. We all know people with very valuable homes that hold little or no equity.

While retirement savings isn't total wealth, the median retirement savings of households age 55-61 is $17,000.
So much for age being the magic ticket to a high wealth to cumulative income ratio.

Consistent high income will build a large denominator requiring building a correspondingly large amount of wealth to have a high wealth conversion ratio. The numerator is largely a function of behavior - there is no shortage of high-flyers on the income side with no real wealth.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby goblue100 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:50 am

I had never gone to the trouble of adding up all of mine and my wife's earnings before. The number was a little bigger than I thought. Using the OP's formula, we are at 36% at the age of 56. I'm pretty ok with that, I think we've had a pretty good balance of enjoying life along the way while still putting away money for the future.
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dave_k
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby dave_k » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:29 pm

My wife and I are also around 59%, not counting business assets (counting those it's around 80%), in our mid 40s. Interesting how many people responding are in that range.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby 2Birds1Stone » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:09 pm

About to turn 30

Net worth = 53% of gross lifetime earnings

MnD
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby MnD » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:31 pm

dave_k wrote:My wife and I are also around 59%, not counting business assets (counting those it's around 80%), in our mid 40s. Interesting how many people responding are in that range.


And how uncharacteristic that level of wealth conversion is. I would imagine the US median is in the mid-single digits.

Median net worth of US families age 32–61, 2013 (2013 dollars)
Age__32–37___38–43___44–49____50–55___56–61___All (32–61)
2013 $27,500 $56,640 $69,700 $121,100 $164,000 $78,660
http://www.epi.org/publication/retirement-in-america/

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby IlliniDave » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:32 pm

Hmm, I'm sort of a laggard here, 34.4% (net worth as % of total medicare taxed earnings). But the day after my divorce 9 years ago it was probably below 10%. While married, we spent at or a little beyond our means (I'm being nice with my choice of pronouns). Now my lifestyle is on the frugal side, saving/investing 56-58% of and "living on" a little below 20% of my gross income. By income I mean only what I get as compensation from my employer. Investment losses and gains are not considered. Age is early 50s.
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sco
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby sco » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:56 pm

35% for a 39/40 year old couple..

I think I'm a crappy saver compared to some of you :)

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby smitty1515 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:11 pm

47%

I'll take it!

8 years of data. Age 34/35
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby *3!4!/5! » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:29 pm

I like this way of looking at it. This question made my day, thanks OP.

Definitely over 100%. :happy

Have always put at least half of salary towards paying down debt (all gone now), saving, investing.

Not high salary, frugal, 5 figure salary, 7 figure portfolio, LBYM, it can be done. :happy

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby SGM » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:26 am

Now that I am retired I am busy turning my wealth into income. I have chosen to delay SS until age 70 and that is like purchasing a better annuity than available on the open market. Apparently SS is still using longevity tables from 1983 or so and they don't differentiate between longevity for men and women. Interest rates on treasuries are still low. I will purchase SPIAs a little later in life too, although I am not typical of those who buy annuities.

So I am buying a roughly $10k additional annuity with 100% survivor benefit and cost of living adjustment for $120k paid over 4 years. Meanwhile DW is getting a spousal benefit started at age 66 and an additional $3500 a year at age 70 on her own benefit.

There is a good chance at least one of us will live to be over 90 and if genetics play much of a role over 100.

MnD
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby MnD » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:32 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote:I like this way of looking at it. This question made my day, thanks OP.

Definitely over 100%. :happy

Have always put at least half of salary towards paying down debt (all gone now), saving, investing.

Not high salary, frugal, 5 figure salary, 7 figure portfolio, LBYM, it can be done. :happy


That's amazing.
Yes this wealth conversion ratio does not require one to have a high income to have a high rate.
In fact high incomes will drive a low conversion ratio if poor wealth-forming choices are made throughout ones working life.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby NYC_Guy » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:37 pm

MnD wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:I like this way of looking at it. This question made my day, thanks OP.

Definitely over 100%. :happy

Have always put at least half of salary towards paying down debt (all gone now), saving, investing.

Not high salary, frugal, 5 figure salary, 7 figure portfolio, LBYM, it can be done. :happy


That's amazing.
Yes this wealth conversion ratio does not require one to have a high income to have a high rate.
In fact high incomes will drive a low conversion ratio if poor wealth-forming choices are made throughout ones working life.


I've been at +50% marginal rates and +40% effective rates for so long that I'd really prefer to look at this on a post-tax basis. Would make me feel better. :oops:

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Pajamas
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby Pajamas » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:57 pm

More than 100% of lifetime earnings due to frugal living, investment returns, and fortunate timing of buying an apartment.

I was also fortunate enough to be born in the U.S. and also to have parents who were able and willing to pay for my first college degree and employers who paid much of the cost for subsequent degrees, so I never had debt for education.

alfaspider
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby alfaspider » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:36 pm

31

Around 50% and rising with a household after-tax savings rate of a bit over 50%. Higher-ed expenses were a pretty big drag (both loans and out of pocket expenses), but those expenses are thankfully behind us. On the other hand, I have benefited from starting my career shortly after the stock market bottomed from the recession and I bought my house during a time of rapid appreciation in my area that has since leveled off.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby DVMResident » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:48 pm

Never thought of this metric. Whoa, NW/gross lifetime income = 84% (ignoring tax status, which ballparks around 20% pre-/30% ROTH/50% taxable). Pretty good.

Mostly from living rent free and a RE investment played out nicely. Mid-30's, school/training till 3 years ago. Was over 100% at one point, but no longer. Our result is and will continue to decrease as our expenses/income increases.

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ray.james
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby ray.james » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:41 pm

35% at age 30. I do not see it rising above 40-45% for another 8 years due to kids, daycare and other expenses.

Regarding the metric, one of the issues is the 401k match not showing up in income but in the numerator.
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby sco » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:33 pm

ray.james wrote:35% at age 30. I do not see it rising above 40-45% for another 8 years due to kids, daycare and other expenses.

Regarding the metric, one of the issues is the 401k match not showing up in income but in the numerator.


I don't see that as an issue, so much as good judgement as far as career decisions go :)

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby msk » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:41 pm

There are of course many ways to look at this, but if we want to compare earned-income-through-personal-labor-and-toil to accumulated wealth then somebody who had a BH mentality when still young should show a huge expansion. My accumulated wealth is roughly 750% of my total lifetime earned income. Somewhat unexpectedly, I find I had major strides in wealth expansion post retirement 17 years ago than pre-retirement. The old adage still holds, you must invest those savings! If you are frugal, save 50% of your earned income, and do not invest it wisely, it hardly ever keeps up with inflation.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby letsgobobby » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:05 am

ray.james wrote:35% at age 30. I do not see it rising above 40-45% for another 8 years due to kids, daycare and other expenses.

Regarding the metric, one of the issues is the 401k match not showing up in income but in the numerator.

if you use medicare earnings, it shows up in the numerator and denominator. Only HSA contributions deducted from payroll would not.

If you inflation adjust every single year of your earnings, as well as any windfalls (inheritances, gifts, etc) this number becomes even more meaningful. But less impressive.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby daveydoo » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:26 am

This post is interesting -- but it's mostly asking how old you are (i.e., years of compounding, etc.).

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby *3!4!/5! » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:42 am

daveydoo wrote:This post is interesting -- but it's mostly asking how old you are (i.e., years of compounding, etc.).

There's certainly some truth to that. But, firstly in the last twenty years it hasn't been steady exponential growth - there's been two big crashes. Secondly, someone saving 60% of each paycheck is saving 20 times as much as someone saving 3% of each paycheck. It takes a long time to get a 20-fold increase purely from investment gains.

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oldzey
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby oldzey » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:48 am

55.54% currently.
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msk
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby msk » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:22 am

Perhaps this paper exercise may help individuals peg how well they are doing. I assumed that the next 50 years will behave, on average, similarly to the last 50 and you invest 100% in the SP500. 50 year history from 1966 to 2016: SP500 compounded at 6.63% p.a., paid a dividend of 3.1% and inflation in the USA compounded at 4% p.a. Assumptions towards income from age 30 to 65: Start at $50k p.a., annual raises of 4% p.a. ABOVE inflation. I.e. our youngster is a BH so he'll do reasonably well at the workplace. He is a good BH and saves 30% of his annual income, and puts it all in SPY, but his dividends are taxed at 15%. These are his cumulative job income and wealth:
Age-----Cum Salary----Wealth-------%
40-------839-------------381----------45
50-------2,569-----------1,683-------66
60-------6,359-----------5,750-------90
65-------9,707-----------10,162-----105

I find it interesting that a good lad who progresses with 4% raises above inflation annually, diligently saving 30% p.a. matches his wealth to his lifetime earnings by age 65. Realistic? I think so, considering that I let the kid save zilch before age 30 :mrgreen:

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby SGM » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:59 am

Although I am busy converting wealth into income these days I have at times looked at how much of my total earned income over the years I have turned into wealth. It is over 100% of earned income and I haven't looked at the numbers lately. It strikes me as a calculation without much purpose. Maybe it can serve as a motivator to some if you need a motivator. I probably used the calculation to pat myself on the back at some time in the past. It just isn't something you can go around talking to your friends about.

DW had a job for 4 years and her 403b alone is worth 2 1/2 x her total earnings for the 4 years. Current yearly annuitized income from the 403b is now greater than 60% of her final salary. She beat Bernie Madoff's modest guaranteed returns and SS payouts at her FRA. :happy

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby lazydavid » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:53 am

Our average age is 41, and we're at 37%. Not great by the standard of folks in this thread, but ok in absolute terms, especially given our late start. I've only been contributing towards retirement for the past 6 years or so, and my wife just started last year. Prior to that she just took whatever profit sharing her previous employer offered, and briefly contributed to a Roth IRA while she was eligible.

But at least we're making progress. The increase in our portfolio last year (mostly due to contributions) was approximately equal to the higher of our two salaries (gross). Add in increased home equity from both appreciation and paying down the mortgage, the increase in our net worth last year was about 55% of our combined gross.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby technovelist » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:22 am

Using the total AIME from Anypia, I get about 36%. I have been mostly retired since 2014 and have been pretty much the sole earning spouse since 2000.
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby wolf359 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:03 am

This measurement is like a Rorschach Test. How you interpret it could reveal whether or not you are a Boglehead.

After learning how this measurement is done, my reaction was to calculate my ratio, and try to raise it. The higher the ratio, the higher my savings rate over my lifetime. I think I've started too late to get it over 100%, but I may hit that late in life if my investments do well.

After describing this measurement to a non-Boglehead, their reaction was also to calculate their ratio. Since the purpose of income is to spend it, a high number reflected failure to live their life the best that they could, and represented waste. You Only Live Once. They considered it impossible that anybody could have a number over 100, or anywhere even close. (What, would you eat air?)

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby TomatoTomahto » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:13 am

wolf359 wrote:This measurement is like a Rorschach Test. How you interpret it could reveal whether or not you are a Boglehead.

After learning how this measurement is done, my reaction was to calculate my ratio, and try to raise it. The higher the ratio, the higher my savings rate over my lifetime. I think I've started too late to get it over 100%, but I may hit that late in life if my investments do well.

After describing this measurement to a non-Boglehead, their reaction was also to calculate their ratio. Since the purpose of income is to spend it, a high number reflected failure to live their life the best that they could, and represented waste. You Only Live Once. They considered it impossible that anybody could have a number over 100, or anywhere even close. (What, would you eat air?)

Does a ratio of 50% mean that I'm balancing living versus saving? :D

More generally, living the past few years at a 38%+ effective tax rate, when the majority of money was earned and saved, means that the ratio is overwhelmed by the past few years. It says very little about our 20s, 30s, 40s, and only a bit about our 50s.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby onthecusp » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:52 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:Does a ratio of 50% mean that I'm balancing living versus saving? :D


I think so. My roughly calculated 25% appears to put me about dead last on this thread and mean that I've been a spendthrift all my life. :|

Maybe somewhat, though actually I blame it on some distinctly non-boglehead "investing" tendencies that lost a lot of money. I've always contributed to a 401k but not always anywhere near a max rate. Moved a lot and so spent a lot on real estate without realizing significant gains. Just to show you can start late and still do OK, I've been on a bout a 60% savings rate for the last few years and feel I will be able to retire very comfortably in a few years and in my early 60s.

Since finding bogleheads less than a year ago every thing seems so much clearer, my investments are stable and growing with a decent 65/35 asset allocation. Thanks to all! :sharebeer

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby ray.james » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:40 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
ray.james wrote:Regarding the metric, one of the issues is the 401k match not showing up in income but in the numerator.

if you use medicare earnings, it shows up in the numerator and denominator. Only HSA contributions deducted from payroll would not.


Is this number different from medicare earnings on W2 every year? I do not see my match money added in that field. Although W2 states elsewhere that I got match of $$$. I think that is the company just informing me.
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby letsgobobby » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:51 pm

ray.james wrote:
letsgobobby wrote:
ray.james wrote:Regarding the metric, one of the issues is the 401k match not showing up in income but in the numerator.

if you use medicare earnings, it shows up in the numerator and denominator. Only HSA contributions deducted from payroll would not.


Is this number different from medicare earnings on W2 every year? I do not see my match money added in that field. Although W2 states elsewhere that I got match of $$$. I think that is the company just informing me.

sorry, I misread your statement and did not see the word 'match'. You are correct.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby perl » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:27 pm

For an early 40s couple: 59.5%. I didn't expect it to be that high.

What would be an easy way to adjust this for inflation?

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby Grogs » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:25 pm

I'm at 27%. In the past six years I've earned about twice as much as I made in the first twenty. This has allowed me to really up the savings rate and start raising that percentage. At the end of 2010, I was at 11%. For 2011 to 2016 year ends, they go 13 - 15 - 16 - 19 - 22 - 27%.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby MnD » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:27 pm

perl wrote:For an early 40s couple: 59.5%. I didn't expect it to be that high.

What would be an easy way to adjust this for inflation?


You could take each year of medicare taxed earned income from your Social security statement and adjust each one to 2016 dollars using an on-line inflation calculator, and then sum up the inflation-adjusted earned income for the denominator.

But I like it the way it is.
A lot of people (here at least) track their net worth.
The SS statement gives a table of lifetime recorded earned income that takes a few minutes to sum up.
One could "adjust" for literally dozens of various things - but what's the point? There's no prize for the perfect calculation of income to wealth conversion. It's just fun maybe to think (in your case) that for every nominal dollar you and your SO have earned over your lifetime you have 60 cents nominal retained. That's damn impressive - inflation adjusted or not.

Consider:
The median net worth of households age 38-43 is $56,640 and age 44-49 $69,700.
If your wealth conversion ratio is better than 5% or thereabouts you're probably above average! :beer

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby Blender » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:41 pm

MnD wrote:Consider:
The median net worth of households age 38-43 is $56,640 and age 44-49 $69,700.
If your wealth conversion ratio is better than 5% or thereabouts you're probably above average! :beer


Thank you. I was starting to feel inadequate only having 45%.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby Bacchus01 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:18 am

Interesting topic.

Using SS income records, and current total net worth (including home equity) we are at about 50%. I actually thought it would be higher. If I include my wife's income, which hasn't been substantial relative to mine, I think the number might be 45% or even 40%. We are in our mid 40s.

However, income has been moving up a lot over time. % of accumulated income:

Last 5 years: 40% - 40% in just the last 5 years (out of 29)
Last 10 years: 73%
Last 15 years: 92%
Last 20 years: 99%

I've been out of college for 20 years. The first 10 years accounts for just 26% of my accumulated income. The next 10 years accounts for 73%. The first 10 years of working career (HS and college age) account for just 1%.

Wealth creation:
Last 5 years: 46%
Last 10 years: 76%
Remainder: 100%

So, wealth creation has grown about in line, slightly better, than wage accumulation. Interesting.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby HuckFinn » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:29 pm

I've actually tracked this number for 3 or 4 years now and had never heard it mentioned in a post before so it's interesting to see someone else throw it out.

Our current total net worth is almost exactly 101% of all all the wage income my wife and I have earned in our lifetime.

The only fly in the ointment for us is the present capital gain liability in the taxable investments which, in my opinion, inflates the percentage slightly due to future tax liabilities.

Glad you posed the topic as it's interesting to read the responses.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby Portfolio7 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:20 pm

Whoops, I had an estimate in my data that overstated and skewed the data relative to this calculation, since it was intended for something else originally. Recalc, age 27 to age 50 below, (50 being 2017 partial), puts us at 50% as of March 2017, more in avg Boglehead territory.

Geez, the impact of the last two big market declines really stands out, combined hit of 15% to our ratio. I'd definitely be FI PDQ if not for those events (but that's not how the game is played.) As it is, I'll probably still "retire" from the company in about 5years, if they don't lay me off first (US employees not long for this world, but I've gotten ten more years than I expected out of them) then maybe do something part-time for a few years.

35% 35% 37% 38% 40% 42% 34% 33% 31% 37% 38% 38% 37% 38% 32% 33% 34% 35% 37% 41% 43% 43% 49% 50%

I wonder if there is a particular number that works decently as a retirement guage? i.e. 60% at age 60, 65% at age 55, or something like that.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby Tyrobi » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:41 pm

I just did this exercise out of curiosity and pulled up my record from SSA. Our net worth represents 73% of our lifetime cumulative earnings.

We are 37 & 35 with two young kids in a purely single-income family.
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Portfolio7
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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby Portfolio7 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:59 am

I ran a very simple analysis with the following assumptions. I was just curious how it mapped:
Starting Age 25
Savings/Investment rate = 15% (Can be going into Equities, Bonds, Real Estate, Individual Business, any non-depreciable asset
Returns: Market-like with 80/20 Portfolio, 10% and 6% for Equities and Bonds, until age 45. Shift to 70/30 until age 60. 60/40 thereafter.
Starting Salary: Any, but I used $50K.
Annual salary increase of 3%

Using these assumptions, one's percentage should grow from 15% at age 25 & cross 100% (103% by year end) at age 65. Interestingly enough, I calculated the yield of a 4% withdrawal rate against the total portfolio, measured against salary. At 100%, or age 65, is also when a 4% withdrawal rate provides income equal to your salary, making age 65 a natural transition to retirement point in this particular example. I'm not sure if I'm overlooking some obvious equivalency, as it seems a little surprising to yield such a 'neat' result; after some thought I feel certain that this result is more chance than anything. Of course, SS / Pensions / annuities were not considered. I'll post again if I have time to play with the variables. FWIW.

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Re: What % of your income have you converted to wealth?

Postby *3!4!/5! » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:24 pm

Portfolio7 wrote:I ran a very simple analysis with the following assumptions. I was just curious how it mapped:
Starting Age 25
Savings/Investment rate = 15% (Can be going into Equities, Bonds, Real Estate, Individual Business, any non-depreciable asset
Returns: Market-like with 80/20 Portfolio, 10% and 6% for Equities and Bonds, until age 45. Shift to 70/30 until age 60. 60/40 thereafter.
Starting Salary: Any, but I used $50K.
Annual salary increase of 3%

Using these assumptions, one's percentage should grow from 15% at age 25 & cross 100% (103% by year end) at age 65. Interestingly enough, I calculated the yield of a 4% withdrawal rate against the total portfolio, measured against salary. At 100%, or age 65, is also when a 4% withdrawal rate provides income equal to your salary, making age 65 a natural transition to retirement point in this particular example. I'm not sure if I'm overlooking some obvious equivalency, as it seems a little surprising to yield such a 'neat' result; after some thought I feel certain that this result is more chance than anything. Of course, SS / Pensions / annuities were not considered. I'll post again if I have time to play with the variables. FWIW.


That's probably just coincidence based on your chosen parameters. Imagine a world with no inflation, no investing, only saving, constant income while working. You could still save during your working years to cover your non-working years. Just like the squirrel burying the nut. If you needed 45 years of income to cover 75 years of expenses (30 years of retirement), you would simply save 40% of income (30 is 40% of 75).


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