What is the definition of a TINA investor

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Jaymover
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What is the definition of a TINA investor

Post by Jaymover »

I saw some posts recently referring to the TINA investor as if the TINA (there is no alternative) investor is of the uninformed, emotional variety.

As I am on the steep learning curve of my investment journey I would like to learn more about this and how to avoid being a TINA.

My guess is that the TINA investor is

- one who is continually chasing the latest "high performing" investment only to be quickly disappointed and impatiently flipping to the next highly rated investment of the day (and thus reducing overall investment returns)

- one who is participating in substitution, ie increasing stock allocations and risk because yields on cash and bonds are so low right now.....
esteen
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Re: What is the definition of a TINA investor

Post by esteen »

The only time I've heard of TINA it was referring to what you'd say when the investing choice you have is not expected to perform well (e.g. compared to a historical choice) but right now it's still the best choice you have, because the other current choices are even worse.

Not sure if that's helpful, I haven't heard of someone being called a "TINA investor", but then again I'm probably not the most up-to-date on the lingo.
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JoMoney
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Re: What is the definition of a TINA investor

Post by JoMoney »

I've never seen/heard "TINA" used in the way you describe it.
The way I've perceived it, is more simply as some investors taking more risk in stocks because bonds are promising to yield nothing (or next to it), at least stocks offer the hope of some return, even if that also comes with the risk of losing it. If you want growth, "there is no alternative".
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phantom0308
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Re: What is the definition of a TINA investor

Post by phantom0308 »

It’s shifting along the risk spectrum. 100% stock investors looking at leveraged funds and options. 60/40 investors Rebalancing out of bonds into more stocks. Considering high yield bonds as a way to boost fixed income without considering correlation to stock market.
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nisiprius
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Re: What is the definition of a TINA investor

Post by nisiprius »

As far as I know, TINA is just an acronym for There Is No Alternative. It is simply given as a reason why some investor is choosing some investment that they would not choose under "normal" conditions.

It has become popular as an explanation for, or assurance of the continuance of, the booming stock market. Thus: CNBC in March:

There is no alternative’ — stocks’ long-running ‘TINA’ advantage could be ending, worrying traders
“TINA” has become a mantra of bulls, arguing that yields have been so low that bonds were hardly worth owning as an asset class.
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Bogle64Pilot
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Re: What is the definition of a TINA investor

Post by Bogle64Pilot »

When I hear TINA I think 10 U.S. Code § 2306a. I’ve never heard it used in the manner you are describing.
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firebirdparts
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Re: What is the definition of a TINA investor

Post by firebirdparts »

Jaymover wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:29 pm I saw some posts recently referring to the TINA investor as if the TINA (there is no alternative) investor is of the uninformed, emotional variety.
I think somebody was confused. You could as easily believe the idea of T I N A presumes that you're expert enough to competently evaluate the alternatives. All of them.

People throw their philosophy around without even realizing it. Always. I think you need to look past what they say and listen to what they mean.

Sometimes you would need to couple that with the Dunning Kruger effect. People just assume they're smarter than everybody else in the room. You can't necessarily change that, but you be can be aware of it.

For our purposes today, the operative question is whether you want to be 100% equities or not, or even 100% U.S. Equities, and why. This is a good question. I'm not sure you want to avoid being 100% U.S. Equities, but you might. One way to avoid this, in my opinion, is to take a quick glance at the Callan Periodic Table and see what you can learn from that. A warning is needed, I think, that you aren't supposed to use it to guess the next winner. The standard line is that there's no pattern to it.

Another way to avoid it is to start believing in the "Reversion to the Mean". Bogle used to make charts showing this and he called them "The Telltale chart" and so I just mention that here so you can find it. They're not easy to find.

There's an interesting paper here called "The Rate of Return of Everything"

You could also look at the effect of U.S. Stock allocation on withdrawal rates in all these withdrawal rate studies which used that as a variable. If you post about that here, you will be trolled mercilessly, but if you just read about it, you can at least think about what that bond allocation might do for you in a withdrawal situation.
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Scooter57
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Re: What is the definition of a TINA investor

Post by Scooter57 »

TINA mostly refers to the situation faced by retirees who are living on the income generated by their investments. Until very recently, interest rates were high enough that they could invest in safe FDIC or NCUA insured CDs and receive enough to pay the bills.

With rates pushed down to near zero, retirees needing income no longer can get it from those safe investments. Hence they are being pushed into riskier stock investments.

It isn't a matter of market timing or thinking they know better than the market. It is a matter of having the strategy they and their financial advisors counted on to fund their retirement get blown up by the choice the Fed has made to sacrifice the interests of savers and retirees in favor of making life easier for corporate debtors.
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: What is the definition of a TINA investor

Post by FrugalInvestor »

See here....
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/ti ... native.asp

Quote from above linked page.....

What Is TINA?
"There is no alternative," often abbreviated as "TINA," is a phrase that originated with the Victorian philosopher Herbert Spencer and later became a slogan for British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s. Today, it is often used by investors to explain a less-than-ideal portfolio allocation, usually of stocks, because other asset classes offer even worse returns. This situation and the subsequent decisions of investors can lead to the "TINA Effect" whereby stocks rise only because investors have no viable alternative.
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Jaymover
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Re: What is the definition of a TINA investor

Post by Jaymover »

I have heard of the substitution effect pushing up stock prices right now. I think the substitution effect is driven by the TINAs of the world, including me, who have evaluated the alternatives.

There is not really an online consensus on, say, increasing your stock allocation by 5 percent to take into account inflation forecasts and future predicted low bond yields. I have effectively done it but not sure if I am doing the right thing as it is pushing my risk tolerance to the hilt. However I hope that taking an educated decision will help me stay the course.

I know that recently the Norwegian sovereign fund increased its allocation to risky assets by 5 percent - they must be pretty smart
ExPatKiwi
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Re: What is the definition of a TINA investor

Post by ExPatKiwi »

TINA just means there is no alternative for investment returns but the stock market. The days of savings and CDs providing a safe and adequate return above inflation no longer exist.
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Re: What is the definition of a TINA investor

Post by Vanguard Fan 1367 »

ExPatKiwi wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:11 am TINA just means there is no alternative for investment returns but the stock market. The days of savings and CDs providing a safe and adequate return above inflation no longer exist.
That is what I have heard on this forum also.
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