Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

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Boglekid
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Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Boglekid »

Suze Orman thinks a market crash could be imminent
— here's what to do


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orm ... 00578.html
Nathan Drake
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Nathan Drake »

Boglekid wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:57 pm Suze Orman thinks a market crash could be imminent
— here's what to do


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orm ... 00578.html
Suzie Orman thinks it's impossible to retire on less than $5M, so no. I ignore her advice.
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willthrill81
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by willthrill81 »

Nathan Drake wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:02 pm
Boglekid wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:57 pm Suze Orman thinks a market crash could be imminent
— here's what to do


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orm ... 00578.html
Suzie Orman thinks it's impossible to retire on less than $5M, so no. I ignore her advice.
Ditto that. She's just another talking head.
“Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Raymond
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Raymond »

I would pay attention to what Suze Orman says as much as I would to Kyle Weaver (from your other thread.)

I don't pay attention to Kyle Weaver :twisted:
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oldmotos
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by oldmotos »

She could be right - who knows? She is too dramatic for my tastes and I think she pushes people to work longer than needed in many cases.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by UpperNwGuy »

If I were you, I would stop listening to Suze Orman.
averagedude
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by averagedude »

Nathan Drake wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:02 pm
Boglekid wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:57 pm Suze Orman thinks a market crash could be imminent
— here's what to do


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orm ... 00578.html
Suzie Orman thinks it's impossible to retire on less than $5M, so no. I ignore her advice.
I actually heard her say this during an interview on a podcast. She is way out of touch with the majority of people who actually listen to her.
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windaar
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by windaar »

I tune out the soothsayers.
Nobody knows nothing.
MathWizard
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by MathWizard »

I think she is decent on personal finance, but there are better sources
for investing, Bogleheads being among the best.

I did learn that I could use Roth IRA contributions as a 2nd tier EF or for
college savings. I never needed to use these, but knowing I could allowed
me to fill the Roth almost every year, and not having to decide between
Roth or EF or college savings.
Last edited by MathWizard on Sun May 16, 2021 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Coase
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Coase »

I watched this documentary on Suze Orman a few years ago and found it fascinating.

https://youtu.be/wZJh25-sO98
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

from the article:
Even Tesla boss Elon Musk is starting to feel anxious. Musk recently asked investing bigwig Cathie Wood, CEO of Ark Invest, if we should be expecting a crash.

While Wood initially brushed off any concerns, she did tell Musk she would have her team take a closer look.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orm ... 00578.html
Musk and Wood are on the case.

We can all relax now.

Musk just reversed course in just a matter of days regarding tesla's bitcoin holdings, so his actions are fairly inconsistent (source: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/16/elon-mu ... tcoin.html) and I'd say that regarding the market, like everyone, he knows nuthin'.

Suze's rules:
1. buy low (I do every time the market falls. if we want to follow #1 shouldn't we WANT the market to fall? Why are we so afraid then?)
2. invest on a schedule (I dollar cost average. Doesn't everyone who gets a paycheck do this?)
3. diversify with fractional shares (when I buy my mutual funds that's exactly what I'm doing).

fluff piece in my humble opinion.

i found the first picture of suze in the article to be kinda funny. She looks puzzled or confused. Is she sure of this impending doom or caught of guard? That first photo doesn't engender certainty by any stretch.

stay the course.

hold the allocation that will meet your goals and understand how your allocation translates into losses. If you don't do that, you will panic sell every time and wind up with less money as a result.

best of luck.

p.s. in reference to "has she been right" I believe if memory serves Suze told her viewers to buy the QQQs in 1999 right before the dot com bust. How's that for being "right"?

Maybe she recommended them in 2001:
January 2001: Suze Orman, financial guru. "In the low 60s here, I think the QQQ, they're a buy. They may go down, but if you dollar-cost average, where you put money every single month into them, I think, in the long run, it's the way to play the Nasdaq." (Fact: You lose -- the QQQ lost 60% more by October 2002.)

source: https://www.wealthmanagement.com/forums ... uotes-past
see for yourself in this boglehead post "Suze Orman's Advice Questioned":
viewtopic.php?t=37873
Last edited by arcticpineapplecorp. on Sun May 16, 2021 9:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events.
TheDDC
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by TheDDC »

averagedude wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:13 pm
Nathan Drake wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:02 pm
Boglekid wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:57 pm Suze Orman thinks a market crash could be imminent
— here's what to do


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orm ... 00578.html
Suzie Orman thinks it's impossible to retire on less than $5M, so no. I ignore her advice.
I actually heard her say this during an interview on a podcast. She is way out of touch with the majority of people who actually listen to her.
She’s really not that out of touch with that budgetary number in the case of the needs of the average retiree who puts their faith in the “medical industrial complex” since that is the going rate for wealth transfer for what passes as shoddy “nursing home care” in a “retirement community”.

For others who think that “average sucks”, they would see Suzes advice as clickbait. Does she really do individual stock picking? The article seems To hint at this, although I never took her to be one of the hucksters.

-TheDDC
Rules to wealth building: 75-80% VTSAX piled high and deep, 20-25% VTIAX, 0% given away to banks, minimize amount given to medical-industrial complex
joetro29
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by joetro29 »

She was my first serious foray into personal finance. I always liked her conservative approach about saving and telling people they couldn’t afford something major.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

she's also consistently told people to buy high yield dividend stocks at different times when interest rates were low (and bonds were yielding little as a result). She called these high yield stocks "safe".

No stocks are safe.

And stocks are not bonds.

That was terrible advice.

She has recommended the S&P500 index fund and was the third person I heard this from before I started investing in 1998 (the other two being Jack Bogle himself and the Motley Fools).

So I took her advice on the S&P 500 but left some of her other advice.
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Bluce »

Nathan Drake wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:02 pm
Boglekid wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:57 pm Suze Orman thinks a market crash could be imminent
— here's what to do


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orm ... 00578.html
Suzie Orman thinks it's impossible to retire on less than $5M, so no. I ignore her advice.
Whenever I hear something like this, I find it ridiculous.

The number needed is completely meaningless without considering how the person lives, and what their average income has been.
"There are no new ideas, only forgotten ones." -- Amity Shlaes
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willthrill81
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by willthrill81 »

Bluce wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:32 pm
Nathan Drake wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:02 pm
Boglekid wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:57 pm Suze Orman thinks a market crash could be imminent
— here's what to do


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orm ... 00578.html
Suzie Orman thinks it's impossible to retire on less than $5M, so no. I ignore her advice.
Whenever I hear something like this, I find it ridiculous.

The number needed is completely meaningless without considering how the person lives, and what their average income has been.
Precisely. Her advice is worse than garbage because, unlike regular garbage, many don't recognize it as being the garbage that it is and suppose that it might be valid.
“Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by JBTX »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:37 pm
Bluce wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:32 pm
Nathan Drake wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:02 pm
Boglekid wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:57 pm Suze Orman thinks a market crash could be imminent
— here's what to do


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orm ... 00578.html
Suzie Orman thinks it's impossible to retire on less than $5M, so no. I ignore her advice.
Whenever I hear something like this, I find it ridiculous.

The number needed is completely meaningless without considering how the person lives, and what their average income has been.
Precisely. Her advice is worse than garbage because, unlike regular garbage, many don't recognize it as being the garbage that it is and suppose that it might be valid.
Seems like she said something along those lines when she first went off on the FIRE movement. I don't recall that the $5 million was a specific recommendation, it was a stream of consciousness rant in response to what could go wrong in retirement, partially based upon her parents health care bills that she picked up.

I think she was OK for people who had little clue about or self discipline, and was better at the behavior aspects of financial habits than specific recommendations. It was packaged in a format to make it entertaining to people who could otherwise care less about personal finance.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Flyer24 »

I have removed a couple of posts. You can disagree with advice but still be respectful please.
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JoMoney
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by JoMoney »

I don't trust "Suze Orman", but even less trustworthy are news headlines and articles claiming to describe what she thinks.

"If You Don’t Read the News You Are Uninformed, If You Do Read the News You Are Misinformed."
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Dottie57 »

I used to enjoy the segment where Suze would approve or disapprove a particular purchase. So many were clueless about how financially insecure they were while they wanted to spend thousands on some extravagance. Utterly hilarious.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by willthrill81 »

JBTX wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 10:21 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:37 pm
Bluce wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:32 pm
Nathan Drake wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:02 pm
Boglekid wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:57 pm Suze Orman thinks a market crash could be imminent
— here's what to do


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orm ... 00578.html
Suzie Orman thinks it's impossible to retire on less than $5M, so no. I ignore her advice.
Whenever I hear something like this, I find it ridiculous.

The number needed is completely meaningless without considering how the person lives, and what their average income has been.
Precisely. Her advice is worse than garbage because, unlike regular garbage, many don't recognize it as being the garbage that it is and suppose that it might be valid.
Seems like she said something along those lines when she first went off on the FIRE movement. I don't recall that the $5 million was a specific recommendation, it was a stream of consciousness rant in response to what could go wrong in retirement, partially based upon her parents health care bills that she picked up.
Oh yes, it was definitely a specific recommendation. She explicitly said that $5 million was the absolute minimum needed for someone to retire early today.
“Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by willthrill81 »

JoMoney wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 10:25 pm I don't trust "Suze Orman", but even less trustworthy are news headlines and articles claiming to describe what she thinks.

"If You Don’t Read the News You Are Uninformed, If You Do Read the News You Are Misinformed."
:beer
“Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Trader Joe »

Nathan Drake wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:02 pm
Boglekid wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:57 pm Suze Orman thinks a market crash could be imminent
— here's what to do


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orm ... 00578.html
Suzie Orman thinks it's impossible to retire on less than $5M, so no. I ignore her advice.
She is right. It is impossible.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Cyclesafe »

IMHO, Orman is better than many, but I think that some of her specific advice has been wrong, wrong, wrong. Prefer Quinn.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Rob5TCP »

This video gives insite into how Orman scammed a lot of people with her card
that made her a good deal of money, but was a horrible deal for everyone else.

This has over 3 million views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZJh25-sO98

a not so flattering book about her career
I would not give her advice two thoughts. The few things she does do well, is tell people live within your means
and don't spend on things you can not afford. IMHO, she is much more of an "entertainer" than an advisor.

https://www.amodernquest.com/sogiftcopy.pdf
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by g2morrow »

Boglekid wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:57 pm Suze Orman thinks a market crash could be imminent
— here's what to do


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orm ... 00578.html
Even a blind squirrel can find a nut every now and then but I wouldn't take financial advice from it.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by JoeRetire »

Boglekid wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:57 pm Suze Orman thinks a market crash could be imminent
I just checked and rechecked the data... she's right - it could be imminent! OMG!
I'm now happy to go on record confidently guaranteeing that the stock market could crash over 80% this year.

As with all the other financial pundits, she gets some things right, she gets some things wrong.

I've watched some of her shows and find her amusing.
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by OldBallCoach »

I find Suze, Dave Ramsey, Jim Cramer and a few others to be very entertaining folks...I think they all mean well but let's face it they have no more ability to predict the future than most other folks. For me I deal with the talking heads of sports that know everything about the game...yet they could not get a team to board the right bus let alone win a game. Fun to watch and I do agree with one common thing they say..you must save and diversify your portfolio...but that doesnt do much for ratings. Neither does great defense but it usually wins games.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by scrabbler1 »

Dottie57 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 10:25 pm I used to enjoy the segment where Suze would approve or disapprove a particular purchase. So many were clueless about how financially insecure they were while they wanted to spend thousands on some extravagance. Utterly hilarious.
I recall watching those segments a few times over the years and had a many good laughs about it. But I would not take her advice. I especially dislike how she is always so negative on bond funds.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by WhyNotUs »

I made it through about 20 minutes of one of her PBS shows once so I am not an expert to SO. In general, there seems to be a need for some tough love coaching for people in debt with spending issues. Different styles may work for different people but in the end a mix of increased income and decreased expenses can put a person in the position to put some money into investments. The voice that helped you stop spending more than you were making may seem like the right voice to listen to when you are preparing to invest since they helped you get there but that may not be the case.

Fortunately, the principles of passive investing are far more generic than dealing with the multiple voices in our heads about spending, possessions, and status. Just about everything that you need to know is available for free on the internet from people who do not have a financial interest in selling you anything. See:
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Main_Page
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Tom_T »

I'm usually wary of taking advice from someone who has gotten rich by selling advice on how to get rich. Orman, Ramsey, etc. have some sensible nuggets of advice, but overall our little forum right here is a goldmine of information for no cost.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by azanon »

Suze should always be prepared for a crash. Just a personal opinion, but anyone in that 10 to 100 million net worth range should be holding a "minimum variance portfolio" 100% of the time. She may hate bonds, but if you ask me they probably should make up about 70-80% of her portfolio.

Most of us mere mortals are taking sub-optimal risk with stocks and other risky investments only because we actually need the extra growth potential to meet our goals. But once you've won, why keep playing the game (credit to W. Bernstein)?
Last edited by azanon on Mon May 17, 2021 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Jags4186 »

I love Suze Orman. But it’s of course impossible to know if a crash is imminent. Additionally, you should understand that Suze Orman was never really an investment guru, she was a personal finance guru for mostly people in financial trouble and also focuses single women.

You see, when you’re rich like she is, you don’t need to take any risk. Especially when you have a business that probably churns her 7-figures+ a year. In an interview she gave not so recently (perhaps last 5 years?) she said she only had, at the time, $1,000,000 invested in the stock market. The rest of her money was invested municipal bonds. She said she doesn’t care if the stock market goes to 0 because she wouldn’t miss the money. If you have $50,000,000+ and a $1,000,000+ perpetual annual income, your need to take risk goes to zero.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by azanon »

Jags4186 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:45 am I love Suze Orman. But it’s of course impossible to know if a crash is imminent. Additionally, you should understand that Suze Orman was never really an investment guru, she was a personal finance guru for mostly people in financial trouble and also focuses single women.

You see, when you’re rich like she is, you don’t need to take any risk. Especially when you have a business that probably churns her 7-figures+ a year. In an interview she gave not so recently (perhaps last 5 years?) she said she only had, at the time, $1,000,000 invested in the stock market. The rest of her money was invested municipal bonds. She said she doesn’t care if the stock market goes to 0 because she wouldn’t miss the money. If you have $50,000,000+ and a $1,000,000+ perpetual annual income, your need to take risk goes to zero.
Exactly!
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Consider advice from Suze to be advice from Dave Ramsey on steroids. Dave has at least been consistent with his "get out of debt" advice and consistent with his "throw yourself to his network of high cost advisors" investing advice. Suze has mostly been the same, but with an over the top recommendation on retirement saving and spending.

Where she's off the rails: I watched a video where she upped the amount someone would need to retire to $10M. But I know the background, which she has talked about. She flew from her private island (yes, she lives on a private island) and talks about paying full boat for nursing home care and medical bills for her mother. So sure.....if you want to plan on paying $16k a month for ten years for a parent and another $16k a month for yourself when you go into a nursing home, sure, $10M seems like a reasonable minimum.

If you're asking if Suze gives good advice, go to youtube and watch a couple dozen of her videos. Then you'll get a good flavor of where her advice is targeted. Spoiler alert....just like Dave Ramsey, her average viewer doesn't understand how they could be overdrafted on their checking account, since they still have checks left in the checkbook.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by AllMostThere »

Suze is nothing more than entertainment value.....After I heard her slap down distain for the FIRE movement during Paula Pant 2018 Podcast and the need for $10M to retire, I lost any remote respect for her - Per Suze; "I hate it, I hate it, I hate it!".

Reference: https://affordanything.com/153-hate-fir ... uze-orman/
It is not about how much you make, it is about how much you keep and how well you invest it. - Author Unknown
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JoMoney
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by JoMoney »

If you actually read what the article says Susan Orman's advice is, or find the video clip on CNBC that the article references, her advice is: to continue dollar cost averaging into stocks through your retirement account, and that long term investors should be hoping for prices to go down like they did in the 2008-2009 crash.
Despite the sensational headline and the talk about not liking what she's seeing in the market right now, her actual advice looks just fine to me. Her advice sounds about the same as what you'd find on this board, including people on here that also believe there are echoes of past frothy markets in what we're seeing going on today.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by azanon »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:15 amSpoiler alert....just like Dave Ramsey, her average viewer doesn't understand how they could be overdrafted on their checking account, since they still have checks left in the checkbook.
Not to stray too much here, but I imagine both her's and Dave Ramsey's method of screening financially intelligent callers/participants at shows shown on TV, etc. is very sophisticated. I can't be the only one that notices that a very financially savy caller never gets through.... I sometimes wish someone more motivated than I am, finds a way to beat it, and get on air.

I guess the same is true for Cramer. I've watched that show a number of times, and I don't ever recall a caller that didn't praise him, point there being either every single person watches his show loves him, or they're being pre-screened.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Rob5TCP wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:54 am This video gives insite into how Orman scammed a lot of people with her card
that made her a good deal of money, but was a horrible deal for everyone else.

This has over 3 million views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZJh25-sO98

a not so flattering book about her career
I would not give her advice two thoughts. The few things she does do well, is tell people live within your means
and don't spend on things you can not afford. IMHO, she is much more of an "entertainer" than an advisor.

https://www.amodernquest.com/sogiftcopy.pdf
Thanks for the video link. I had no idea she was such a jerk.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by RickBoglehead »

The term that comes to my mind is "Carnival Barker".
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
Flyer24
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Re: Is Suze Orman smart to listen to? Has she been right

Post by Flyer24 »

Thread is becoming disrespectful and not focused on investing. The thread is locked.
Locked