Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by abuss368 »

I would expect there to be bugs with the new tool. I have noticed a couple when reviewing.

Honestly years ago this would have bothered me a lot more. I probably would have sent Vanguard an email or called them. Now as my investment journey continues, I have learned that owning total market index funds will have no impact or bearing (or a need) for any analysis tool.

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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by ultraviolet »

Just checked portfolio watch and the numbers are the same as last Friday. I looked at VTSAX on morningstar using their regular quote lookup and their X-ray tool. Both showed different results from each other and different than Vanguard. Using vanguards tool, VTSAX matches their own market cap weighting percentages. So, while this is frustrating, I’m just going to go with vanguard here and rebalance with my next contribution.
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Portfolio Watch Tool Giving Conflicting information !ALERT to an ISSUE

Post by russm535il »

I have been a Vanguard client for 30 years and am now a Flagship member.
I regularly use my I phones' vanguard app as a way to check asset allocation / Capitalization / investment style etc.

Last Thursday I used the version on my laptop and saw vastly different information from what my phone app showed.

I immediately called Vanguard and they confirmed that the output from Portfolio Watch is producing different results on some accounts.
Vanguards Web Tech team is working on the issue but I wanted to let the community know and encourage you to check your portfolio with " Portfolio Watch" on both your phone and laptop and if you are seeing different numbers contact Vanguard

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Last edited by russm535il on Tue May 04, 2021 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by LadyGeek »

Welcome! I moved your post into the ongoing discussion, which is in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum.

Consider editing your post (the "pencil" icon in the top-right corner) to remove your real name. This forum is heavily indexed by google. Information posted here can be linked with information found elsewhere on the internet. You don't want friends, family, or employer finding financial information which you've posted here.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by russm535il »

Thank you I deleted my name !
This is a real problem for me because if my phone app is not correct and the tool on the laptop is our portfolio is way out of balance
I am waiting to hear back from Vanguards IT people

A few example as of yesterdays close:

On Laptop Small Cap Stocks: 4.78 US market at 7.76 phone app me 7.1% the US small Cap market at 7%Domestic
On Laptop Stocks: 63% US 37% International Phone app 68.5 % US 31.5% International
On Laptop Bonds: 75% US 25% International phone app 66.9% US 33.1 International

I do not which output is correct and it makes rebalancing impossible ?
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by thisisdmac »

It doesn't work properly, and it shouldn't be available to use until it does.

Also, those who own the market should still care that Vanguard provides a tool that offers erroneous data from which decisions have surely been made by many. It makes you wonder what's going on in the kitchen.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by russm535il »

I am 99% sure that I transferring to Fidelity this week If I cannot balance my portfolio it makes no sense to stay with Vanguard
I have been there for 30 years and am a Flagship client - hard to change brokers but this is unacceptable
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by abuss368 »

thisisdmac wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:14 am It doesn't work properly, and it shouldn't be available to use until it does.

Also, those who own the market should still care that Vanguard provides a tool that offers erroneous data from which decisions have surely been made by many. It makes you wonder what's going on in the kitchen.
I am a total market investor and it makes no difference to me any longer as I noted up thread. At one time these things would bother me and I would send Vanguard a message.

Now I realize it does not change our total market strategy one bit. I no longer bother.

I looked at the tool for a few minutes, shrugged my shoulders and essentially said “ok whatever”.

Tony
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by thisisdmac »

I am a total market investor and it makes no difference to me any longer as I noted up thread.
I read what you and other total market investors wrote. That's what inspired me to write what I did. As someone doing business with Vanguard, any sloppiness or error would bother me even if it didn't affect me directly at this moment. How providing a wonky tool -- that spits out bad data meant to inform decisions of some investors -- doesn't bother fellow investors is beyond me. There's a reason why good businesses pay attention to details, and when in the business of handling money, all the more. As I stated, if the tool misleads, disable it until it's fixed. And if they can't roll out something like this without tripping, what might be next?
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by colodane »

Yes, this is a pet peeve of mine with Vanguard - their lack of attention to details.

Prime example is the daily market summary they publish each afternoon when the markets close. Probably 30% of the time the header gives that day's date but the detail content below is from 2 or 3 days ago. Someone must be ultimately responsible for this sloppiness, and I don't understand whey they aren't identified and let go.

I've adapted by not looking at it any more, as there are much better versions available elsewhere. But it doesn't give me a warm feeling when 80% of my net worth is in their custody.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Thesaints »

One thing is saving on expenses and provide an inferior service. Instead spending additional money to revamp the portfolio watch webpage resulting in a substantially inferior product is just stupid and a sure sign of mismanagement.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by bbrock »

Agreed TheSaints.

Mobile version for me is off as well. It’s off because it no longer considers outside investments I’ve manually entered. Frustrating. I can bring this up to Vanguard reps, hopefully others are, because with enough noise maybe they’ll do something about it.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Nebraska_Drought »

I had set up all my accounts under the Vanguard portfolio watch a couple of years ago and liked that I could look at my Vanguard, Fidelity, Etrade, and TR Price accounts (as well as my banking/cash accounts) all with one tool. I liked how it all worked. I noticed right away after the revamp that the numbers all changed drastically. Not sure why Vanguard would have released this when there were issues, but they did. What I did then was set up a similar portfolio watch using another service. I have about half my assets with Vanguard and the other half split into the others that I have. Frustrating, yes but not that big of a deal as I can still get an analysis. I hope Vanguard fixes theirs as I was used to it after using it for several years.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by abuss368 »

thisisdmac wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:07 pm
I am a total market investor and it makes no difference to me any longer as I noted up thread.
I read what you and other total market investors wrote. That's what inspired me to write what I did. As someone doing business with Vanguard, any sloppiness or error would bother me even if it didn't affect me directly at this moment. How providing a wonky tool -- that spits out bad data meant to inform decisions of some investors -- doesn't bother fellow investors is beyond me. There's a reason why good businesses pay attention to details, and when in the business of handling money, all the more. As I stated, if the tool misleads, disable it until it's fixed. And if they can't roll out something like this without tripping, what might be next?
I would consider both calling and sending an email to Vanguard.

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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by thisisdmac »

I would consider both calling and sending an email to Vanguard.
I went back and forth with them the day the new PW went live. It's been escalated -- or so the CSR said.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by like2read »

thisisdmac wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 5:52 pm
I would consider both calling and sending an email to Vanguard.
I went back and forth with them the day the new PW went live. It's been escalated -- or so the CSR said.


I just sent a secure message via the Vanguard website to complain.

If you are unhappy with this tool as is, please take the time to do the same.

l2r
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by bbrock »

I spoke to a flagship rep earlier this week and ranted. Will send a secure message as well. Hopefully all the “noise” prompts them to make a change for the better.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by mkc »

like2read wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:24 am I just sent a secure message via the Vanguard website to complain.

If you are unhappy with this tool as is, please take the time to do the same.
Secure message sent to Vanguard as well.

It's bad enough the interface for Portfolio Tester changed (significantly) for the worse, but to have the analysis come back with completely nonsensical (decreasing stock fund holdings and increasing bond fund holdings results in an increase in stock allocation) makes the tool worthless.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look

Post by BBBob »

AUH2O wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:33 am Logged in the VG and the "new" Portfolio Watch yesterday. Awful. I gave 1 star feedback only because 0 was unavailable. As noted above, lots of scrolling to view information. Older version was concise, suited my needs (95% index funds). Could view AA at a glance. Looks like an attempt to provide more precision without accuracy.
+1

The new PW IMO is a horrible and incomprehensible data dump that complicates my re-balancing beyond belief. The Vanguard rep was unable to tell me how to get what I need in a concise and visually understandable way (i.e., presentation similar to that displayed by the former PW screen, which was concise and good enough!)

I sent a critical message to VG and have been assured by return email that my input is important. :annoyed

I feel like the VG schooner has disabled its GPS, and VG has cut the link to the ship's rudder and left me adrift. If anyone has figured out a way to get back to the prior display of info, I am all ears.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by bbrock »

BBBob, if there was a way to get back to the former PW view, I would be all over it. I too tried to find out but there’s no way as of yet.

Sidenote, looking at it negatively, I speculate if they are intending to complicate things for account holders. But this would not seem logical; it would only serve to drive business away. Thus, I come back to my original question, why on earth would they roll out and inferior upgrade? What were they hoping to achieve?
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Thesaints »

bbrock wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:29 am What were they hoping to achieve?
Some manager will write on his annual performance review that he/she led a major upgrade of the website, including the portfolio tester tool.
Luckily, it seems that the manager in charge of the mobile-based website does not need a larger bonus this year. That version of the tool still works well.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Monster99 »

bbrock wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:29 am BBBob, if there was a way to get back to the former PW view, I would be all over it. I too tried to find out but there’s no way as of yet.

Sidenote, looking at it negatively, I speculate if they are intending to complicate things for account holders. But this would not seem logical; it would only serve to drive business away. Thus, I come back to my original question, why on earth would they roll out and inferior upgrade? What were they hoping to achieve?
Could be trying to drive business to PAS.....
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Nebraska_Drought »

Also sent a secure message to VG and did get a response. Their response was they did not see anything wrong and told me to supply additional information/screen shots of what I was seeing. I did that yesterday and will wait another week for a response. Luckily, I regularly saved my PW output in my spreadsheets to see how my allocations were changing. I went from 78% stock allocation to a 62% stock allocation in PW just by their new software and nothing else.

I also noticed, that the information related to "outside investments" that I added to my PW were also wrong. The fees being listed were wrong on several funds I have outside of VG and in one instance where I had the same fund in 2 different 401K's, the fee listed was 2 different amounts. It is crazy how bad this "upgrade" has been.

That I did do, I put all of my holdings into my Fidelity account and used their tool, which works great. I also found that TDAmeritrade has the morningstar Xray tool available if you import your holdings. You can't save it on the TDAmeritrade version, but with my spreadsheets, I was able to pull that data in easily and get an Xray report. Funny, the Fidelity and Morningstar Xray reports were both the same and had the same values as my previous VG PW output had. Hard to figure out how VG messed this up this badly. :annoyed
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by livesoft »

Nebraska_Drought wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:41 pm... Funny, the Fidelity and Morningstar Xray reports were both the same and had the same values as my previous VG PW output had. Hard to figure out how VG messed this up this badly. :annoyed
Not funny. I have routinely used Fidelity GPS, TDAmeritrade X-ray, and Vanguard Portfolio Watch. Yes, Fidelity and TDAmeritrade give the same results given the same inputs. Vanguard Portfolio Watch was clearly an internal product flawed in many ways. The ways are just slightly different now.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Nebraska_Drought »

livesoft wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:03 pm
Nebraska_Drought wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:41 pm... Funny, the Fidelity and Morningstar Xray reports were both the same and had the same values as my previous VG PW output had. Hard to figure out how VG messed this up this badly. :annoyed
Not funny. I have routinely used Fidelity GPS, TDAmeritrade X-ray, and Vanguard Portfolio Watch. Yes, Fidelity and TDAmeritrade give the same results given the same inputs. Vanguard Portfolio Watch was clearly an internal product flawed in many ways. The ways are just slightly different now.
As a follow-up, I heard back from Vanguard and all of the sudden, the AA's in my PW are correct and they admitted to nothing being wrong still ! Amazing how they are in total denial about PW not working. They did not say what they did or anything more in the email other than the screen captures I had from Monday were completely different from what is there now. I am a big Vanguard fan, but this is crazy that they are putting up the defense so hard on this blunder.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Tubes »

I've tried everything to get it to include my Outside Investments. It includes those I have symbols for, but the others are not included, even if I have the asset information entered manually. 30% of my portfolio is now "Other."

It's funny. I added that information about 9 years ago, as requested by VG, when I got my free meeting with a Flagship advisor. I've come to appreciate this feature. Not sure what I'm going to do now, maybe try Fidelity GPS.

Overall, I'm just kind of mourning the decline in VG service.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by bbrock »

@ Nebraska Drought: Can’t be coincidental that it’s right suddenly. Ashamed to hear about the lack that of accountability.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Nebraska_Drought »

Pretty much my thoughts exactly ! I even had a screen shot of my account from the day before and it literally changed by about 15% with no explanation at all......what else is broken or wrong that I have not noticed?

bbrock wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:26 am @ Nebraska Drought: Can’t be coincidental that it’s right suddenly. Ashamed to hear about the lack that of accountability.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Tubes »

I 'fixed' some of the issues of my Outside Investments not being counted in Portfolio Watch.

So I complained that with the update, most of my "Outside Investment" information got dumped into "Other," which made the tool useless. My old company's 401k has a custom fund with no symbol, and this is one of a few items that stopped being counted.

I got some results by changing the "Holding Type" from "Mutual Fund" to "Stock" (or Bond).

Then I add various classifications such as Domestic/International, Large/Small, etc., based on the information that the 401k trustee publishes.

It is strange. The same kind of manual information can be input if the Holding Type is Mutual Fund, but the PW tool then ignores it.

This fix is important so I can at least get my overall AA, and also Domestic/Foreign exposure numbers. The downside is it would be difficult to fine-tune sector information which was available if the holding type was mutual fund. I really don't use that kind of granularity. I just need the overall rough allocations.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by netrover »

Am I the only one who noticed the new Portfolio Watch has eliminated the Reports feature?
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Re: New Portfolio Watch Tool

Post by netrover »

BoutBenjamins wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:59 am [Post merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

Logged on to VG today and found they've rolled out their new version of the Portfolio Watch Tool. Having spent time using it I can definitely say it's "Underwhelming"..... Don't like it.

IMO this new version is a long way from improved and is NOT user friendly. Of course it has a new look but it's visually spread out instead of concise, you have to drill down endlessly and if you have multiple accounts, you have to scroll endlessly to view fund information. But the biggest MISS is you no longer can download data from the PW tool, the only option is to print it. How could the designers not include an option to download data? For people like myself who manage their own money, it's critical to be able to download data and get it into a useable format like excel. But therein lies the real issue, management doesn't want me to manage my own money, the want me to pay an advisor.

To top things off, when I called to schedule an appointment to discuss all this with my "advisor" his calendar shows he's out for the next two weeks. Called to see if there was someone else I could speak with and got nowhere.

Been with VG a long time but they've become so large they've lost their customer focus. Very frustrating
Yes it is underwhelming...the reports feature has also been eliminated...I believe Vanguard is trying to push more people to their Personal Advisor Service.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by secondopinion »

abuss368 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 2:00 pm I would expect there to be bugs with the new tool. I have noticed a couple when reviewing.

Honestly years ago this would have bothered me a lot more. I probably would have sent Vanguard an email or called them. Now as my investment journey continues, I have learned that owning total market index funds will have no impact or bearing (or a need) for any analysis tool.

Simplicity at its best.
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I do my own analysis so I agree with you on a different angle.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by bbrock »

Tubes wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:22 am I 'fixed' some of the issues of my Outside Investments not being counted in Portfolio Watch.

So I complained that with the update, most of my "Outside Investment" information got dumped into "Other," which made the tool useless. My old company's 401k has a custom fund with no symbol, and this is one of a few items that stopped being counted.

I got some results by changing the "Holding Type" from "Mutual Fund" to "Stock" (or Bond).

Then I add various classifications such as Domestic/International, Large/Small, etc., based on the information that the 401k trustee publishes.

It is strange. The same kind of manual information can be input if the Holding Type is Mutual Fund, but the PW tool then ignores it.

This fix is important so I can at least get my overall AA, and also Domestic/Foreign exposure numbers. The downside is it would be difficult to fine-tune sector information which was available if the holding type was mutual fund. I really don't use that kind of granularity. I just need the overall rough allocations.
Thx for sharing Tubes. Way to mess around and get it to work! That is my exact problem - my other (which is a bond index mutual fund, and a stock index mutual fund) is no longer categorized. I'll try you fix and see what happens.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Tubes »

bbrock wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:12 pm Thx for sharing Tubes. Way to mess around and get it to work! That is my exact problem - my other (which is a bond index mutual fund, and a stock index mutual fund) is no longer categorized. I'll try you fix and see what happens.
You're welcome! I wouldn't have tried this except that: 1) Other people reported here that their "Outside" was being counted, and 2) I did computer programming for a living and imagine scenarios on how to break code.

Since others had success, I decided to start fiddling with every knob they gave us. I finally fell on classifying the funds as stocks. The downside is you can't get as fine of granularity for sectors. Oh well.

Hope this works for you!
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by bbrock »

Tubes, you are a GENIUS! Your fix absolutely worked. Solved the issue with "Other" now being able to be recognized/categorized. You rock!
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Tubes »

bbrock wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:22 pm Tubes, you are a GENIUS! Your fix absolutely worked. Solved the issue with "Other" now being able to be recognized/categorized. You rock!
Ha ha, thanks! :happy

I'm not a genius, I'm an old programmer who knows how code breaks. In my last job, I responded to many customer bug reports and developed "workarounds" for them while we worked on fixes. I guess it paid off!
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Thesaints »

Amongst my "others" I have an emerging markets fund. If I list it as "stock", the only choices are between domestic and international. I'm afraid Tubes's fix doesn't work too well for me.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Tubes »

Thesaints wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 11:53 am Amongst my "others" I have an emerging markets fund. If I list it as "stock", the only choices are between domestic and international. I'm afraid Tubes's fix doesn't work too well for me.
Yep. No workaround is ever perfect. Hence my comment: " The downside is you can't get as fine of granularity for sectors. "

BTW, for a balanced mutual fund holding both stocks and bonds, I had to split it into two entries. That's a real pain also.

Should I report this mess, or do they already know how badly they've broken this? Perhaps I'll go back and read this thread again about all the previous reporting of issues.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Thesaints »

Tubes wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 12:06 pm Should I report this mess, or do they already know how badly they've broken this? Perhaps I'll go back and read this thread again about all the previous reporting of issues.
I think Vanguard doesn't really care. We have been reporting for months now. I only hope they don't screw up the app-based portfolio analysis as well.
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Re: Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect]

Post by Nebraska_Drought »

Thesaints wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 12:20 pm
Tubes wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 12:06 pm Should I report this mess, or do they already know how badly they've broken this? Perhaps I'll go back and read this thread again about all the previous reporting of issues.
I think Vanguard doesn't really care. We have been reporting for months now. I only hope they don't screw up the app-based portfolio analysis as well.
I had looked on my PC, my phone, and my Ipad and all were the same and all were wrong. Those who are luckily seeing the "correct" information through the app, I'd call that luck.
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