Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

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goingup
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Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby goingup » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:40 pm

BHs-
A question to individual forum members: Do you pay a fee to purchase the funds or ETFs you invest in?

I ask this question because posts so casually mention spending $2.95, $4.95, $7, $19.99 etc to purchase funds/ETFs. How did this become normal? I don't think people mentioned these fees a few years ago. How much are investors spending annually on these purchase fees?

It's wonderful that ERs have got so rock-bottom low, but it would appear a lot of the savings is being bled away by these trading costs (Full disclosure, I'm a mid-50s fund buyer and I haven't ever paid a fee to buy a fund.)

Wakefield1
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Wakefield1 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:43 pm

Still have some "invest by mail" slips for various Vanguard funds and they come with "No Postage Needed" envelops. So no cost!

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby TomatoTomahto » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:45 pm

I buy only funds, not ETFs. I do not pay a fee to do that. I have accounts at Vanguard, Fidelity, and wife's employer (401k).

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flamesabers
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby flamesabers » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:45 pm

I also don't pay fees to buy funds.

sport
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby sport » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:45 pm

I buy Vanguard MFs at Vanguard. No costs except for the expense ratio.

Thesaints
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Thesaints » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:46 pm

Heck no! Although I've paid indirectly, when using options on ETF's.

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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby abner kravitz » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:54 pm

ETFs trade like stocks, so there is often a regular stock trade fee. However, most brokerages have their own lineup of no fee ETFs

Thesaints
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Thesaints » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:56 pm

Doesn't Ameritrade have a long list of no trading cost ETF's ?

123
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby 123 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:59 pm

We pay fees to buy ETFs at Schwab and Fideltiy for various accounts. We spend less then $100 a year, and sometimes nothing in a year, on trading commissions. Since we pretty much buy and hold with infrequent adjustments the trading fees are inconsequential based on the account size. We like the Vanguard ETFs and it is cheaper to use Vanguard ETFs then Vanguard Mutual Funds at brokerages like Schwab and Fidelity which charge much higher transaction fees for Vanguard funds since they don't have the 12b fee related "kickback" to the broker. While we could buy either ETFs or funds at Vanguard without fees we like the convenience and benefits of holding assets at Schwab and Fidelity.
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Hockey10
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Hockey10 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:17 pm

No, I do not pay fees. I buy Vanguard ETFs at Vanguard, so no fees. I buy iShares ETFs in my Fidelity account, which are also commission free.

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watchnerd
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby watchnerd » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:29 pm

Hockey10 wrote:No, I do not pay fees. I buy Vanguard ETFs at Vanguard, so no fees. I buy iShares ETFs in my Fidelity account, which are also commission free.


Ditto.

$0 trading costs for ETFs for me.
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Jack FFR1846 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:39 pm

I pay zero to buy/sell funds at Vanguard.
I pay zero to buy/sell funds at Fidelity.
I pay zero to buy/sell ETFs at Schwab.
I pay zero to buy/sell ETFs at TDAmeritrade (and they have a huge list of the best Vanguard index ETF's at no trading cost, but you do have to sign up for it)
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triceratop
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby triceratop » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:46 pm

I pay zero to buy/sell any ETF/stock (up to 30/mo.) at Merrill Edge. I have never paid fees to buy funds or ETFs; I probably never will.

I paid a stock commission exactly once, to buy 1 share of Berkshire Hathaway, because it would save me more in insurance costs than the commission.

I encourage everyone to avoid commissions. There really is no need these days to pay them, in most situations.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

goingup
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby goingup » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:55 pm

It seems most respondents aren't paying fees to purchase funds/ETFs. I wonder how representative that is of the forum or the investing population at large.

It's easy to get lulled into thinking that trading fees don't amount to much, but they are insidious--like ATM fees.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby TomatoTomahto » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:57 pm

goingup wrote:It seems most respondents aren't paying fees to purchase funds/ETFs. I wonder how representative that is of the forum or the investing population at large.

It's easy to get lulled into thinking that trading fees don't amount to much, but they are insidious--like ATM fees.

Yes, I don't pay ATM fees either. :beer

blueberry
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby blueberry » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:03 pm

I sometimes do pay a transaction fee when buying and selling etfs. I don't buy or sell that often, so it's noise in the measurement.

jbolden1517
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby jbolden1517 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:55 pm

Thesaints wrote:Heck no! Although I've paid indirectly, when using options on ETF's.

:happy

jbolden1517
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby jbolden1517 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:00 pm

goingup wrote:BHs-
A question to individual forum members: Do you pay a fee to purchase the funds or ETFs you invest in?

I ask this question because posts so casually mention spending $2.95, $4.95, $7, $19.99 etc to purchase funds/ETFs. How did this become normal? I don't think people mentioned these fees a few years ago. How much are investors spending annually on these purchase fees?

It's wonderful that ERs have got so rock-bottom low, but it would appear a lot of the savings is being bled away by these trading costs (Full disclosure, I'm a mid-50s fund buyer and I haven't ever paid a fee to buy a fund.)


I'd rather pay $20 twice or three times than .25% every year in 12b-1 fees ($20 per $8k in the fund per year). In terms of ETFs I get the 100 free trades / mo so no fees on ETF trades. I have gotten hit with the mutual fund fee once recently. I got hit a lot more often when I mostly invested in funds because I tried not to pay 12b-1. Mostly though discount brokerage fees are pretty cheap. Buy and hold investors don't trade all that much. $200 / yr is 20 basis on $100k and 2 basis point on $1m.

coincollector
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby coincollector » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:08 pm

I have in the past for both single stocks and ETFs. The nice thing is there are lots of brokers with free ETF trades, reduced (Ally or Etrade) or free trades (Merrill Edge or Vanguard) for certain activity/balances or even new services such as Robinhood which all trades are free. I've yet to try it but it is defiantly an option for the fee adverse (and who isn't').

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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby jocdoc » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:12 pm

I pay transaction fees for Bmbix Baird Hi quality Muni fund at vanguard. I save and buy $10K at a time two times a year to minimize the fees. I try to buy VG funds and ETFs first, to eliminate transaction fees. However, I want a higher quality muni bond fund the the VG intermediate fund so I pay the fee.
jc

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wander
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby wander » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:36 pm

I have 100 free trades (mutual funds and ETFs) a year but never use more than 60.

Eric76
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Eric76 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:48 pm

triceratop wrote:I pay zero to buy/sell any ETF/stock (up to 30/mo.) at Merrill Edge. I have never paid fees to buy funds or ETFs; I probably never will.

I paid a stock commission exactly once, to buy 1 share of Berkshire Hathaway, because it would save me more in insurance costs than the commission.

I encourage everyone to avoid commissions. There really is no need these days to pay them, in most situations.


Can you explain the bolded?

John Doe 123
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby John Doe 123 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:27 pm

Eric76 wrote:
triceratop wrote:I pay zero to buy/sell any ETF/stock (up to 30/mo.) at Merrill Edge. I have never paid fees to buy funds or ETFs; I probably never will.

I paid a stock commission exactly once, to buy 1 share of Berkshire Hathaway, because it would save me more in insurance costs than the commission.

I encourage everyone to avoid commissions. There really is no need these days to pay them, in most situations.


Can you explain the bolded?


GEICO insurance is owned by Berkshire and offers a discount to shareholders.

Longtermgrowth
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Longtermgrowth » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:07 am

No, I have 100 free trades a month at Merrill Edge. It's almost a bad thing because I just buy the funds I like. Currently holding 3 Vanguard, 3 WisdomTree and 1 Schwab ETF.

smesman
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby smesman » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:09 am

I can buy from a selection of ETFs for free once a month, and the rest costs $0.50 + 1 cent per share per transaction. I believe the only ones I'm paying for are VLUE and FNDF that aren't in the selection. I'm using 'DeGiro" in the Netherlands.

Edit: For my retirement I'm unfortunately with a provider that charges 3 euro per transaction, "BeFrank", unless you let them invest automatically for you. I left it on auto which has them investing mostly in "Think Global Equity UCITS ETF" with an expense ratio of 0,20%. (The company itself also charges a 0,30% management fee, so about 0,50% in total.)
Last edited by smesman on Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Eric76
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Eric76 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:52 am

John Doe 123 wrote:
Eric76 wrote:
triceratop wrote:I pay zero to buy/sell any ETF/stock (up to 30/mo.) at Merrill Edge. I have never paid fees to buy funds or ETFs; I probably never will.

I paid a stock commission exactly once, to buy 1 share of Berkshire Hathaway, because it would save me more in insurance costs than the commission.

I encourage everyone to avoid commissions. There really is no need these days to pay them, in most situations.


Can you explain the bolded?


GEICO insurance is owned by Berkshire and offers a discount to shareholders.


I have Geico and didn't know that. How are you expected to prove that you are a stockholder?

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triceratop
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby triceratop » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:53 am

Eric76 wrote:
John Doe 123 wrote:
Eric76 wrote:
triceratop wrote:I pay zero to buy/sell any ETF/stock (up to 30/mo.) at Merrill Edge. I have never paid fees to buy funds or ETFs; I probably never will.

I paid a stock commission exactly once, to buy 1 share of Berkshire Hathaway, because it would save me more in insurance costs than the commission.

I encourage everyone to avoid commissions. There really is no need these days to pay them, in most situations.


Can you explain the bolded?


GEICO insurance is owned by Berkshire and offers a discount to shareholders.


I have Geico and didn't know that. How are you expected to prove that you are a stockholder?


It is on the honor system, as far as I know. I have never needed to prove I own a share.
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denovo
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby denovo » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:02 am

goingup wrote:It seems most respondents aren't paying fees to purchase funds/ETFs. I wonder how representative that is of the forum or the investing population at large.

It's easy to get lulled into thinking that trading fees don't amount to much, but they are insidious--like ATM fees.


I think in most 401k's there aren't any transaction fees either, but people can get hosed between the high expense ratios and plan administration fees, but everyone is at the whim of their employee when it comes to the 401(k) plans so there isn't much anyone can do about it.
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby denovo » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:05 am

[quote="goingup"

It's wonderful that ERs have got so rock-bottom low, but it would appear a lot of the savings is being bled away by these trading costs (Full disclosure, I'm a mid-50s fund buyer and I haven't ever paid a fee to buy a fund.)[/quote]

Maybe for non-BH'ers who are doing a lot of day trading/speculating, but I don't think otherwise. Plus I don't see why they should be correlated.

Say I own 50k of a Vanguard ETF at TD Ameritrade. The expense ratio goes to Vanguard. The trading fees go to TD Ameritrade. Vanguard doesn't make any extra money from me being a serial trader. TD gets all that.
Stocks (80% of portfolio): 30% US Large, 4% Mid Cap, 6% Small Cap, 20% Emerg Market, 10% Asia Developed, 10% Europe, 5% Intl Small Cap, 10% US RE, 5 % INTL RE | Bonds (20%): US Interm Bond Index

goingup
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby goingup » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:41 am

jbolden1517 wrote:
goingup wrote:BHs-
A question to individual forum members: Do you pay a fee to purchase the funds or ETFs you invest in?

I ask this question because posts so casually mention spending $2.95, $4.95, $7, $19.99 etc to purchase funds/ETFs. How did this become normal? I don't think people mentioned these fees a few years ago. How much are investors spending annually on these purchase fees?

It's wonderful that ERs have got so rock-bottom low, but it would appear a lot of the savings is being bled away by these trading costs (Full disclosure, I'm a mid-50s fund buyer and I haven't ever paid a fee to buy a fund.)


I'd rather pay $20 twice or three times than .25% every year in 12b-1 fees ($20 per $8k in the fund per year). In terms of ETFs I get the 100 free trades / mo so no fees on ETF trades. I have gotten hit with the mutual fund fee once recently. I got hit a lot more often when I mostly invested in funds because I tried not to pay 12b-1. Mostly though discount brokerage fees are pretty cheap. Buy and hold investors don't trade all that much. $200 / yr is 20 basis on $100k and 2 basis point on $1m.

I think paying .20% on a $100K portfolio is huge. Many here are moving money to chase the lowest ERs to save 10 basis points. For many years I've added to several funds in a taxable account monthly or quarterly. If I had to pay $7X12 per fund to do that I probably wouldn't have and perhaps would have accumulated less.

I'm interested in how some investors are treating these fees as merely the cost of doing business. I'm not sure we should be so blasé.

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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Earl Lemongrab » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:09 pm

As some of the others have mentioned, I have Merrill Edge and TD Ameritrade accounts with commission-free choices and purchased other commission-free ETFs when I had accounts at Fidelity or Schwab. The only time I have paid a commission was when Tradeking had an offer (now ended) for a $200 bonus with 2k deposit and three trades. I just bought the same ETF in three transactions and considered the commission to be a small reduction in the bonus.
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby sco » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:53 am

I've never paid a fee, but someday I may end up moving some accounts and have to pay a little to liquidate over time... or the place I move to may still be giving out free trades? When selling the cost of a 4.95 trade doesn't concern me, the cost of tax implications is a concern

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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby MnD » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:33 am

goingup wrote:It's wonderful that ERs have got so rock-bottom low, but it would appear a lot of the savings is being bled away by these trading costs (Full disclosure, I'm a mid-50s fund buyer and I haven't ever paid a fee to buy a fund.)


goingup wrote:It's easy to get lulled into thinking that trading fees don't amount to much, but they are insidious--like ATM fees.


goingup wrote:I'm interested in how some investors are treating these fees as merely the cost of doing business. I'm not sure we should be so blasé.


Occasionally because as a mid-50's investor I've been investing with my wife for 30 years and we have some legacy positions that aren't 100% fee or commission free to sell plus a few we add to by choice. Out of 18 positions across 8 accounts, 5 positions have a trading cost.
We trade very infrequently and in large blocks and our trading fees on top of fund and ETF ER's runs about $60/yr.

To put that in context:
Our dollar-weighted ER is 0.11% or about $2200/yr.
On top of that our average trading fees ER is 0.003% for average $60/yr.
So total ER 0.113%.

One can imply poor judgement we trading fee payers here are exercising by lack of our "no trading fee ever" gold badges. But the cost and fee situation over the past 30 years has improved by roughly an order of magnitude at least from what I recall in the 80's and early 90's even for this foolish trading fee payer. If I was concerned about excess expenses I'd look at bringing my lunch more often, the sticker price on our wine bottles and this big old house on a big lot we live in. Investment trading fees might be number 237 down the list. :beer

goingup
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby goingup » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:19 am

MnD wrote:
goingup wrote:It's wonderful that ERs have got so rock-bottom low, but it would appear a lot of the savings is being bled away by these trading costs (Full disclosure, I'm a mid-50s fund buyer and I haven't ever paid a fee to buy a fund.)


goingup wrote:It's easy to get lulled into thinking that trading fees don't amount to much, but they are insidious--like ATM fees.


goingup wrote:I'm interested in how some investors are treating these fees as merely the cost of doing business. I'm not sure we should be so blasé.


Occasionally because as a mid-50's investor I've been investing with my wife for 30 years and we have some legacy positions that aren't 100% fee or commission free to sell plus a few we add to by choice. Out of 18 positions across 8 accounts, 5 positions have a trading cost.
We trade very infrequently and in large blocks and our trading fees on top of fund and ETF ER's runs about $60/yr.

To put that in context:
Our dollar-weighted ER is 0.11% or about $2200/yr.
On top of that our average trading fees ER is 0.003% for average $60/yr.
So total ER 0.113%.

One can imply poor judgement we trading fee payers here are exercising by lack of our "no trading fee ever" gold badges. But the cost and fee situation over the past 30 years has improved by roughly an order of magnitude at least from what I recall in the 80's and early 90's even for this foolish trading fee payer. If I was concerned about excess expenses I'd look at bringing my lunch more often, the sticker price on our wine bottles and this big old house on a big lot we live in. Investment trading fees might be number 237 down the list. :beer

Of course, you are fortunate indeed that fees have such a minuscule impact on your portfolio. It doesn't sound as though you make many transactions in your portfolio like a younger person building a portfolio might. My point is that while fees overall have gotten much better, trading costs can add up, especially for early accumulators. Many here seek to avoid those trading fees if possible. Younger investors may be unaware that paying transaction fees can be avoided.

One idea to avoid trading fees (as mentioned above) is to use Vanguard funds/ETFs at Vanguard, Fidelity funds/ETFs at Fidelity, etc. Another is to use ETFs/funds that your broker lists as No Transaction Fee.

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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby munemaker » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:12 am

No! Never.

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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Day9 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:31 pm

I have to pay a small commission in my HSA (Health Savings Account) and as far as I can tell I have no choice over that. So I do not buy more funds with every pay period instead I wait to grow a significant cash reserve then invest the cash all at once.
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby FinancialDave » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:56 pm

triceratop wrote:I pay zero to buy/sell any ETF/stock (up to 30/mo.) at Merrill Edge. I have never paid fees to buy funds or ETFs; I probably never will.

I paid a stock commission exactly once, to buy 1 share of Berkshire Hathaway, because it would save me more in insurance costs than the commission.

I encourage everyone to avoid commissions. There really is no need these days to pay them, in most situations.


Not saying you shouldn't own Berkshire, but passing on the fact that most people don't know - I found out after a couple years that the discount was not happening because my other good driver discount, etc precluded the other Berkshire discount from making a difference. I suggest you ask your agent to point out where on your statement there is the discount, unless of course you see it there.

In other words the Berkshire discount is not "additive" to your other discounts.

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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby bigred77 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:16 pm

I use a number of Vanguard ETFs within the Fidelity 401k brokerage option, so I pay probably 30 bucks or so a year when i rebalance using these ETFs. I could probably find suitable fee-free Fidelity alternatives but I've just stuck with the current plan. It adds less than 1 basis point per year to my total costs, I haven't really sweated it.

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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby DetroitRick » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:24 pm

For ETF's at Schwab, yes for some. I pay either $4.95 per trade, or $0 for many they offer. I've occasionally seen cases where bid/ask spread differentials offset added commission between otherwise comparable etf's, but not in the past 2 years. It can be important to look at all 3 cost components (commission, spread and op. expenses).

Mutual funds, mostly no. I do have 3 very large core positions where I have paid Schwab's "buy fee" in the past ($76 now, $0 on sell). In those cases, the $76 was more than offset by lower ongoing expenses (versus closest comparable fee-free fund) and certain other characteristics important to me. But more typically, no fees paid. Frankly, I probably should try to negotiate a waiver on these for the future, but it comes up so rarely... I've never paid loads though.

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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Artsdoctor » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:55 pm

Yes. It pains me to say it, but I pay fees.

I have an old Fidelity account which has been mostly transferred into a trust and there are many individual municipal bonds. Every quarter, I take the dividends and purchase Vanguard's Total World ETF (VT) because I think it's one of the best simple ETFs around. It costs $4.95 per quarter to purchase shares so you could say that I'm squandering nearly $20 per year in fees. However, it really adds less than 0.1% to the ER and I don't anticipate selling shares for many years. Consequently, I can live with myself and can look in the mirror without much shame . . .

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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Eric76 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:35 pm

triceratop wrote:
Eric76 wrote:
John Doe 123 wrote:
Eric76 wrote:
triceratop wrote:I pay zero to buy/sell any ETF/stock (up to 30/mo.) at Merrill Edge. I have never paid fees to buy funds or ETFs; I probably never will.

I paid a stock commission exactly once, to buy 1 share of Berkshire Hathaway, because it would save me more in insurance costs than the commission.

I encourage everyone to avoid commissions. There really is no need these days to pay them, in most situations.


Can you explain the bolded?


GEICO insurance is owned by Berkshire and offers a discount to shareholders.


I have Geico and didn't know that. How are you expected to prove that you are a stockholder?


It is on the honor system, as far as I know. I have never needed to prove I own a share.


I'm sure I have Berkshire Hathaway stock in my VTI. Does that count? :D

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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby triceratop » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:49 pm

Eric76 wrote:
triceratop wrote:
Eric76 wrote:
John Doe 123 wrote:
Eric76 wrote:
Can you explain the bolded?


GEICO insurance is owned by Berkshire and offers a discount to shareholders.


I have Geico and didn't know that. How are you expected to prove that you are a stockholder?


It is on the honor system, as far as I know. I have never needed to prove I own a share.


I'm sure I have Berkshire Hathaway stock in my VTI. Does that count? :D


Not to my knowledge, no. heh.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

aaronl
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby aaronl » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:17 pm

I occasionally pay commissions to buy Vanguard ETFs at Fidelity. I also have an account at Wells Fargo that's grandfathered in to free trades. In the past I used the Wells Fargo account nearly exclusively, but I've been disappointed by my recent experiences with Wells Fargo. In particular, the web site redesign broke a lot of things, and made it difficult to transact with confidence. It's also much more convenient for me to invest at Fidelity, since I have my primary checking account there. It can be a hassle to move cash between institutions, and the lost interest sometimes outweighs the trade commission.

Fidelity has a good set of commission-free iShares ETFs, and I use those as well. However, I have more that confidence that Vanguard will manage its funds in my long-term best interest. If I'm buying a $50k block of ETF shares in a taxable account, I'd generally rather pay an extra 0.01% upfront to go with Vanguard, since I may be holding on to these shares for a long time.

FinancialDave
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby FinancialDave » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:43 am

Eric76 wrote:
triceratop wrote:
Eric76 wrote:
John Doe 123 wrote:
Eric76 wrote:
Can you explain the bolded?


GEICO insurance is owned by Berkshire and offers a discount to shareholders.


I have Geico and didn't know that. How are you expected to prove that you are a stockholder?


It is on the honor system, as far as I know. I have never needed to prove I own a share.


I'm sure I have Berkshire Hathaway stock in my VTI. Does that count? :D



As I said above, it probably won't make a difference anyway, unless of course you have a terrible driving record and get no discounts.

It seems Berkshire only rewards you for using GEICO insurance if you are a terrible driver -- not sure if that is the smartest business model!

:oops:
I love simulated data. It turns the impossible into the possible!

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triceratop
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby triceratop » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:28 pm

FinancialDave wrote:
Eric76 wrote:
triceratop wrote:
Eric76 wrote:
John Doe 123 wrote:
GEICO insurance is owned by Berkshire and offers a discount to shareholders.


I have Geico and didn't know that. How are you expected to prove that you are a stockholder?


It is on the honor system, as far as I know. I have never needed to prove I own a share.


I'm sure I have Berkshire Hathaway stock in my VTI. Does that count? :D



As I said above, it probably won't make a difference anyway, unless of course you have a terrible driving record and get no discounts.

It seems Berkshire only rewards you for using GEICO insurance if you are a terrible driver -- not sure if that is the smartest business model!

:oops:


I have a perfect driving record and it saved me money.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

sco
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby sco » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:13 pm

triceratop wrote:
FinancialDave wrote:
Eric76 wrote:
triceratop wrote:
Eric76 wrote:
I have Geico and didn't know that. How are you expected to prove that you are a stockholder?


It is on the honor system, as far as I know. I have never needed to prove I own a share.


I'm sure I have Berkshire Hathaway stock in my VTI. Does that count? :D



As I said above, it probably won't make a difference anyway, unless of course you have a terrible driving record and get no discounts.

It seems Berkshire only rewards you for using GEICO insurance if you are a terrible driver -- not sure if that is the smartest business model!

:oops:


I have a perfect driving record and it saved me money.


Ditto. $100 every 6 months

Chip
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Re: Do you pay fees to buy funds or ETFs?

Postby Chip » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:12 am

MnD wrote:One can imply poor judgement we trading fee payers here are exercising by lack of our "no trading fee ever" gold badges. But the cost and fee situation over the past 30 years has improved by roughly an order of magnitude at least from what I recall in the 80's and early 90's even for this foolish trading fee payer. If I was concerned about excess expenses I'd look at bringing my lunch more often, the sticker price on our wine bottles and this big old house on a big lot we live in. Investment trading fees might be number 237 down the list.


Absolutely. I'm comfortable at Fidelity, even if they want to charge me $5 for a Vanguard ETF trade. My total trading costs for the last 18 months were $170, and that included some substantial reshuffling of assets. They'll be much lower going forward. I recall paying a commission of $200 for one trade in the early 80s at a full service broker.

My wife spent 4 figures on wine the other day. THAT is the place to cut expenses at my house.


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