anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

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chipmonk
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anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by chipmonk »

I tax-loss-harvested my international stock funds last fall near the bottom, and they had recovered nicely back into the black, but the ongoing financial turmoil in Europe has beaten them back down into further losses.

I'm trying to decide if I should TLH my international holdings again. They're down about 5%, but I can imagine they might go even lower in the next couple of months, and I don't want to shut out of further TLH opportunities by the wash sale rules or Vanguard's 2-month redemption fee rule for international funds.

Anyone care to indulge in a little "calling-the-bottom" speculation? Of course I will still be adhering to Boglehead principles by maintaining my asset allocation and in fact rebalancing into international stocks, so this is purely a TLH timing question :)
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by baw703916 »

I swapped from Total International to Big FTSE last year, and swapped back yesterday.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by Sidney »

During the downtick in 2008-9 I used VEA and VEU and cycled through them regularly. Thus, did not have to try to call the bottom.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by xerty24 »

chipmonk wrote:Anyone care to indulge in a little "calling-the-bottom" speculation? Of course I will still be adhering to Boglehead principles by maintaining my asset allocation and in fact rebalancing into international stocks, so this is purely a TLH timing question :)
If I tell you it's not the bottom yet, will you sell your international stocks and just wait 31 days instead of rebuying right away?
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by mhc »

Seeing that Intl is down again today, I put in my exchange after lunch today. If they keep going down, I'll do it again in 60 days.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by chipmonk »

xerty24 wrote:
chipmonk wrote:Anyone care to indulge in a little "calling-the-bottom" speculation? Of course I will still be adhering to Boglehead principles by maintaining my asset allocation and in fact rebalancing into international stocks, so this is purely a TLH timing question :)
If I tell you it's not the bottom yet, will you sell your international stocks and just wait 31 days instead of rebuying right away?
No, I'll stay fully invested in international stocks regardless. As I said, I'm not planning to change my AA at all, just trying to TLH as much as possible by bouncing from VTIAX to VFWAX at the most opportune moment.

What I'm "worried" about is that the bottom may fall out in, say, 2 weeks with a Greek exit from the euro and then increase fairly quickly when people realize the sky isn't falling. If I TLH today, then I might miss the bottom in 2 weeks.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by archbish99 »

I'm asking a similar question, but since I'm still sitting in the 60-day limit of buying in the first place, it's a moot point for now. I have a contingency plan to TLH if they're still down when the redemption fee runs out. I can't decide whether I hope they've recovered by then, or whether I hope I get the chance to TLH in the first place.

(Good thing what I hope has no bearing on the market to begin with!)
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by baw703916 »

archbish99 wrote:I'm asking a similar question, but since I'm still sitting in the 60-day limit of buying in the first place, it's a moot point for now. I have a contingency plan to TLH if they're still down when the redemption fee runs out. I can't decide whether I hope they've recovered by then, or whether I hope I get the chance to TLH in the first place.

(Good thing what I hope has no bearing on the market to begin with!)
It's only a 31 day limit if you use ETFs.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by archbish99 »

Not quite the same thing, since I'm referring to the early redemption fee, which doesn't exist at all for ETFs. But that raises an interesting idea -- I could convert to ETF shares then immediately TLH into VEU. I don't really want to hold ETFs long term in this account, but I'll have a future chance to pick up some TISM and I can move the rest back at some point....
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FinanceFun
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by FinanceFun »

I did some TLH on VXUS, VWO, and VSS yesterday. Ill do some more in 15 days, then cycle back 30 days from their back into VXUS, VWO, VSS.
Last edited by FinanceFun on Wed May 16, 2012 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by momar »

Second thing tomorrow morning, after getting the coffee started...
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by chipmonk »

archbish99 wrote:Not quite the same thing, since I'm referring to the early redemption fee, which doesn't exist at all for ETFs. But that raises an interesting idea -- I could convert to ETF shares then immediately TLH into VEU. I don't really want to hold ETFs long term in this account, but I'll have a future chance to pick up some TISM and I can move the rest back at some point....
I've thought about doing that too. You get a tax and fee-free conversion into ETFs, but switching back out to regular index funds certainly isn't straightforward.

It is nice that ETFs don't have the redemption fee, but they do have a bid/ask spread and I ind out that I stress out too much about intra-day fluctuations when I hold ETFs :)
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archbish99
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by archbish99 »

chipmonk wrote:
archbish99 wrote:Not quite the same thing, since I'm referring to the early redemption fee, which doesn't exist at all for ETFs. But that raises an interesting idea -- I could convert to ETF shares then immediately TLH into VEU. I don't really want to hold ETFs long term in this account, but I'll have a future chance to pick up some TISM and I can move the rest back at some point....
I've thought about doing that too. You get a tax and fee-free conversion into ETFs, but switching back out to regular index funds certainly isn't straightforward.

It is nice that ETFs don't have the redemption fee, but they do have a bid/ask spread and I ind out that I stress out too much about intra-day fluctuations when I hold ETFs :)
Yeah -- I can dampen the change by exchanging out of cash into the fund at the same time I sell the ETF, then let the ETF sales settle back into cash. But I don't have enough cash to do that with our entire TISM position, because we don't keep that much :moneybag in the account.

(edit: Just realized I could do this repeatedly over time to move money back -- exchange the cash on the day I sell, sell enough shares to replace the cash position; the day that settles, enter another exchange and another sale, and repeat until the whole position has moved. Keeps the full amount invested at any one time, and basically only sacrifices the money market yield for however long it takes to cycle the whole position.)
Last edited by archbish99 on Thu May 17, 2012 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by Easy Rhino »

Sidney wrote:During the downtick in 2008-9 I used VEA and VEU and cycled through them regularly.
Me too, and my last TLH was in february 2009, so the bulk of my position is still way up from that low. Hmm.. I do have a few additional purchases since that time which are underwater... but I won't really want to split my position to TLH just those little pieces.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by archbish99 »

Just pulled the trigger on the ETF conversion -- probably won't actually be able to place an order until Monday, but the process is started.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by SunDevil »

Thank you for reminding me to do this today! I finally could exchange from FTSE ex-US back to Total Intl after the last TLH-ing in fall 2011.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by xerty24 »

archbish99 wrote:Just pulled the trigger on the ETF conversion -- probably won't actually be able to place an order until Monday, but the process is started.
Please keep us posted how it goes.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by Atilla »

Pulled the trigger and sold shares of EFV today that were down quite a bit. Tomorrow can add some paycheck money and consider re-purchasing something else.

Still sitting on shares of VWO that could also stand to go for the loss but I can't get myself to do it yet when markets seem headed downward steadily. Maybe tomorrow; maybe next week. I wish a Really Bad Day would crop up and make my mind up for me.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by centrifuge41 »

I'm TLH'ing into Fidelity rather than into Vanguard FTSE ex-us fund. Either Spartan ex-US (FSGUX) or MSCI ACWI ex US (ACWX). Why? Extra incentive to get United or AA or Delta miles, plus Apple gift cards if you're moving over 75k+.

After 4 months (time it takes to secure the bonus), I can move the assets back to Vanguard Total Intl.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by archbish99 »

centrifuge41 wrote:I'm TLH'ing into Fidelity rather than into Vanguard FTSE ex-us fund. Either Spartan ex-US (FSGUX) or MSCI ACWI ex US (ACWX). Why? Extra incentive to get United or AA or Delta miles, plus Apple gift cards if you're moving over 75k+.

After 4 months (time it takes to secure the bonus), I can move the assets back to Vanguard Total Intl.
Isn't this the same index as Total International? If so, that'd be skirting too close to "substantially identical" for my taste.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by clevername »

I TLH'd from vtiax total intl into vfwax, another intl, late last December. Booked a nice loss there. Now vfwax is back down to where I was in December so I'll probably sell it tomorrow and get back into vtiax. I like vfwax but I don't love it so it's nice to have a golden opportunity to get back into vtiax so soon after tlhing.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by livesoft »

It wasn't too long ago that all threads about TLH were "How do I TLH?". It's refreshing to see a thread like this one where everyone seems confident that TLH is an appropriate move.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by mrwalken »

livesoft wrote:It wasn't too long ago that all threads about TLH were "How do I TLH?". It's refreshing to see a thread like this one where everyone seems confident that TLH is an appropriate move.
Not sure I'd call it refreshing. We're all just getting used to losing large sums on a regular basis.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by mrwalken »

I have a related question. If I sell VSS within my vanguard brokerage account, can I immediately purchase SCZ with that money within the same account? I don't want to end up getting stuck out of the market for a few days.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by chipmonk »

centrifuge41 wrote:I'm TLH'ing into Fidelity rather than into Vanguard FTSE ex-us fund. Either Spartan ex-US (FSGUX) or MSCI ACWI ex US (ACWX). Why? Extra incentive to get United or AA or Delta miles, plus Apple gift cards if you're moving over 75k+.

After 4 months (time it takes to secure the bonus), I can move the assets back to Vanguard Total Intl.
Huh... I don't think I've heard of this bonus before. Do you have any info on it?
livesoft wrote:It wasn't too long ago that all threads about TLH were "How do I TLH?". It's refreshing to see a thread like this one where everyone seems confident that TLH is an appropriate move.
+1. It's thanks to the Bogleheads that I've managed to understand and appreciate the value of TLH. I now have a $23k capital loss carryover that will be saving me on taxes for years.
mrwalken wrote:Not sure I'd call it refreshing. We're all just getting used to losing large sums on a regular basis.
True, but at least we're getting a discount on our losses, right? :happy
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by livesoft »

mrwalken wrote:I have a related question. If I sell VSS within my vanguard brokerage account, can I immediately purchase SCZ with that money within the same account? I don't want to end up getting stuck out of the market for a few days.
Yes.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by kikie »

Greece will hold a repeat election on June 17, a source from the Democratic Left party said after party leaders met on Wednesday.


why don't you wait till then, though i believe BH dogma says 'timing' is anathema
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by jebmke »

I try to TLH when I have losses. I can always sell again if it goes down further. There really is no reason to wait. There is a surrogate for just about any investment you might have.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by YDNAL »

chipmonk wrote:I tax-loss-harvested my international stock funds last fall near the bottom, and they had recovered nicely back into the black, but the ongoing financial turmoil in Europe has beaten them back down into further losses.
Please enlighten me!... that doesn't make sense.

Vanguard Total International:
Price.. High/Low per year
$14.86 03/19/2012
$13.07 05/16/2012 <--- yesterday

$17.08 04/29/2011
$12.53 10/03/2011 <--- last fall

$16.15 11/04/2010
$12.34 06/07/2010

$15.02 11/16/2009
$7.97 03/09/2009
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chipmonk
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by chipmonk »

YDNAL wrote:
chipmonk wrote:I tax-loss-harvested my international stock funds last fall near the bottom, and they had recovered nicely back into the black, but the ongoing financial turmoil in Europe has beaten them back down into further losses.
Please enlighten me!... that doesn't make sense.

Vanguard Total International:
Price.. High/Low per year
$14.86 03/19/2012
$13.07 05/16/2012 <--- yesterday

$17.08 04/29/2011
$12.53 10/03/2011 <--- last fall

$16.15 11/04/2010
$12.34 06/07/2010

$15.02 11/16/2009
$7.97 03/09/2009
Are you just itching to trade something, thinking that you are smarter than the Market, or both? :D
No, I definitely don't think I'm smarter than the market, which is why I'm not budging from my international holdings despite their steady decline over the last week or so :). I TLH-ed between VFWAX and VTIAX twice last year, and somehow ended up with VTIAX shares with basis of $22-24.
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matjen
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by matjen »

As I said in another thread. I sold a bunch of EEM and bought VWO today.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by centrifuge41 »

archbish99 wrote:
centrifuge41 wrote:I'm TLH'ing into Fidelity rather than into Vanguard FTSE ex-us fund. Either Spartan ex-US (FSGUX) or MSCI ACWI ex US (ACWX). Why? Extra incentive to get United or AA or Delta miles, plus Apple gift cards if you're moving over 75k+.

After 4 months (time it takes to secure the bonus), I can move the assets back to Vanguard Total Intl.
Isn't this the same index as Total International? If so, that'd be skirting too close to "substantially identical" for my taste.
Good question! I took a look, and Vanguard's total Intl uses the MSCI ACWI ex USA IMI Index.

The iShares ACWX ETF and Fidelity's Spartan Global ex US Index Fund (FSGUX) both use the MSCI ACWI ex USA Index. I think it's safe to tax loss harvest over to either the Fidelity fund or the iShares ETF.

Bonuses:
United
AA
Delta
Pick 1 of the 3. Limit 1 per 12 months per customer

Some people say that this stacks with the Apple bonus, if you're going to be moving over 75k+ assets.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by grabiner »

mrwalken wrote:I have a related question. If I sell VSS within my vanguard brokerage account, can I immediately purchase SCZ with that money within the same account? I don't want to end up getting stuck out of the market for a few days.
Yes. You need to have the money to pay for the purchase when the trade settles, and your purchase and sale settle on the same day, so the money from the sale will appear in your account on the day it is needed.

You can't buy a mutual fund direct from Vanguard until the stock transaction settles.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by momar »

momar wrote:Second thing tomorrow morning, after getting the coffee started...
Damnit, I left 0.95 on the table buying FTSE All World ex Us.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by Noobvestor »

I have some 2-month limitations to deal with right now, so I thought about waiting it out ... but then I thought about the paperwork, and the worry, and instead I just pulled the trigger and balanced some more funds into ex-US to catch it up and keep the course. Now I've reset the clock - barring really crazy dips the 2% fee on total international and emerging markets won't make it worth TLHing before 2 more months are up. *Shrug*
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by yukon50 »

YDNAL wrote:
chipmonk wrote:I tax-loss-harvested my international stock funds last fall near the bottom, and they had recovered nicely back into the black, but the ongoing financial turmoil in Europe has beaten them back down into further losses.
Please enlighten me!... that doesn't make sense.

Vanguard Total International:
Price.. High/Low per year
$14.86 03/19/2012
$13.07 05/16/2012 <--- yesterday

$17.08 04/29/2011
$12.53 10/03/2011 <--- last fall

$16.15 11/04/2010
$12.34 06/07/2010

$15.02 11/16/2009
$7.97 03/09/2009
Are you just itching to trade something, thinking that you are smarter than the Market, or both? :D
$13.00 is about 40% off the peak from 2007. That is a deep plunge.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by YDNAL »

chipmonk wrote:
YDNAL wrote:
chipmonk wrote:I tax-loss-harvested my international stock funds last fall near the bottom, and they had recovered nicely back into the black, but the ongoing financial turmoil in Europe has beaten them back down into further losses.
.... Are you just itching to trade something, thinking that you are smarter than the Market, or both? :D
No, I definitely don't think I'm smarter than the market, which is why I'm not budging from my international holdings despite their steady decline over the last week or so :). I TLH-ed between VFWAX and VTIAX twice last year, and somehow ended up with VTIAX shares with basis of $22-24.
In the OP, you said "last fall" and said International (non-specific), I looked at Investor Shares - not that it matters.

Admiral at $22-24, means you bought after a ~10% run-up in October and didn't THL at the lows in early-October. That's why I posted to begin-with that your first sentence in the OP didn't make sense.

International VTIAX:
Vanguard wrote:$24.85 03/19/2012
$21.64 05/17/2012 <-- yesterday

$28.57 04/29/2011
$20.97 10/03/2011 <-- last fall
yukon50 wrote:$13.00 is about 40% off the peak from 2007. That is a deep plunge.
Yes, it is also +63% from 2009 low, and +4% from last fall's low - the topic of this thread.

International is volatile, Domestic is volatile, the last 12 years are volatile!
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by archbish99 »

xerty24 wrote:
archbish99 wrote:Just pulled the trigger on the ETF conversion -- probably won't actually be able to place an order until Monday, but the process is started.
Please keep us posted how it goes.
Mutual fund shares have disappeared as of today, but the ETFs haven't shown up. So presumably, no TLH for me until Monday.

(And I know that international is volatile, but seeing your whole position drop to zero overnight is slightly nerve-wracking. :shock: )
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by SpringMan »

Swapped VG Total International for VG Tax Managed International last week. Both funds continue to go lower, maybe a chance to swap back and capture more losses. I know the two month redemption fee can be avoided by converting Tax Managed International to its ETF, VEA. I dislike playing that game but may do it. IMO, Vanguard should waive the redemption fee or make it 30 days for the special case of those doing TLH. TLH is one area where ETFs have an advantage of not having redemption fees.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by nvboglehead »

Grabiner did this amazing analysis recently on using Tax-managed Int'l., Emerging Markets and FTSE All-World Ex-US Small Cap to duplicate your holdings in Total International that you might be selling for TLH.
TM International versus Total International

To get the same allocation as Total International (which includes small-caps and emerging markets), you need 65% TM International, 20% Emerging Markets, 15% FTSE All-World Ex-US Small-Cap. The FTSE Small-Cap fund should be held as an ETF because it has no Admiral shares and the ETF is much less expensive; the others can be held as Admiral shares or ETF. The three-fund combination has 0.16% expenses, versus 0.18% for Total International.

We assume a 2% yield for Total International with 70% qualified dividends, while TM International has a 1.8% yield with 100% qualified dividends versus 75%, and the other portions have a 2% yield which is 60% qualified. Thus the three-fund combination has a yield of 1.89% (including the expense reduction) with 0.28% non-qualified. All funds are assumed to have 7% foreign tax credit. We also assume FTSE Small-Cap has 0.5% in long-term gains (0.08% of the portfolio); it distributed capital gains in 2009 and 2010 but not in 2011.

You might also have your own capital gains rebalancing the three-fund combination, and it is definitely more complicated to manage. Thus, it doesn't have a clear advantage if you want to hold international stocks at the market weight. However, if you aren't holding the market weights (either as a deliberate decision to overweight small-caps or emerging markets, or because you have other international funds), so that you need a three-fund combination anyway, you might as well use TM International rather than Total International as the core holding, as you should save a few basis points in expenses and taxes.

Three-fund tax: 0.00%/0.19%/0.22% with QDI; 0.16%/0.35%/0.54% without.
Total International tax: 0.02%/0.22%/0.28% with QDI; 0.16%/0.36%/0.56% without.
Net gain: 0.04%/0.05%/0.08% with QDI; 0.02%/0.03%/0.04% without.
link to entire thread:
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 10&t=95518

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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by xerty24 »

archbish99 wrote:
xerty24 wrote:
archbish99 wrote:Just pulled the trigger on the ETF conversion -- probably won't actually be able to place an order until Monday, but the process is started.
Please keep us posted how it goes.
Mutual fund shares have disappeared as of today, but the ETFs haven't shown up. So presumably, no TLH for me until Monday.

(And I know that international is volatile, but seeing your whole position drop to zero overnight is slightly nerve-wracking. :shock: )
Thanks for the update, archbish99. Looks like international stocks haven't recovered too much in the meanwhile, so you should still get to grab your loss for tax purposes.
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by mrwalken »

I placed a limit order to sell VSS at $78.20 per share. The order executed at $78.27 per share. Can somebody explain how that is possible?
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by Hashy »

mrwalken wrote:I placed a limit order to sell VSS at $78.20 per share. The order executed at $78.27 per share. Can somebody explain how that is possible?
You instructed not to sell VSS for less than $78.20. It was sold for $78.27, which is higher than your minimum price.
mrwalken
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by mrwalken »

Hashy wrote:
mrwalken wrote:I placed a limit order to sell VSS at $78.20 per share. The order executed at $78.27 per share. Can somebody explain how that is possible?
You instructed not to sell VSS for less than $78.20. It was sold for $78.27, which is higher than your minimum price.
So if I am willing to sell at $78.20 and somebody else is willing to buy at $78.27, how do they decide what price to execute at?
livesoft
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by livesoft »

mrwalken wrote:
Hashy wrote:
mrwalken wrote:I placed a limit order to sell VSS at $78.20 per share. The order executed at $78.27 per share. Can somebody explain how that is possible?
You instructed not to sell VSS for less than $78.20. It was sold for $78.27, which is higher than your minimum price.
So if I am willing to sell at $78.20 and somebody else is willing to buy at $78.27, how do they decide what price to execute at?
That may not be the way it works. Somebody else was probably willing to buy at say $78.50, so the "middleman" bought from you at $78.27 and sold to "somebody else" at $78.50. You got $78.27 and the middle man got $0.23 a share.
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mrwalken
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by mrwalken »

livesoft wrote:
mrwalken wrote:
Hashy wrote:
mrwalken wrote:I placed a limit order to sell VSS at $78.20 per share. The order executed at $78.27 per share. Can somebody explain how that is possible?
You instructed not to sell VSS for less than $78.20. It was sold for $78.27, which is higher than your minimum price.
So if I am willing to sell at $78.20 and somebody else is willing to buy at $78.27, how do they decide what price to execute at?
That may not be the way it works. Somebody else was probably willing to buy at say $78.50, so the "middleman" bought from you at $78.27 and sold to "somebody else" at $78.50. You got $78.27 and the middle man got $0.23 a share.
Can the middleman not see what price I placed the order at? Why else would he give me an extra $.07 per share if he doesn't have to?
livesoft
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by livesoft »

mrwalken wrote:Can the middleman not see what price I placed the order at? Why else would he give me an extra $.07 per share if he doesn't have to?
There is more than one middleman. They have to outbid each other to be able to buy from you. So if one of them wanted to wait and pay you $78.20, a different one could snap up your shares at $78.27 before the first one had a chance.
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xerty24
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by xerty24 »

livesoft wrote:
mrwalken wrote:
Hashy wrote:
mrwalken wrote:I placed a limit order to sell VSS at $78.20 per share. The order executed at $78.27 per share. Can somebody explain how that is possible?
You instructed not to sell VSS for less than $78.20. It was sold for $78.27, which is higher than your minimum price.
So if I am willing to sell at $78.20 and somebody else is willing to buy at $78.27, how do they decide what price to execute at?
That may not be the way it works. Somebody else was probably willing to buy at say $78.50, so the "middleman" bought from you at $78.27 and sold to "somebody else" at $78.50. You got $78.27 and the middle man got $0.23 a share.
There is rarely a "middleman" in the sense you describe. If someone was willing to buy at $78.50 and had placed a limit order at that price, the bid would be at least $78.50 and any seller after that time would get that price if he sold. Whoever places their limit order first gives up the right to getting any better price than they asked for (with very rare exceptions).

In the original example, someone already had placed a buy order at $78.27, only mrwalken didn't notice or placed his sell order at $78.20 anyway to improve his chances of executing if the market dropped a little. He got the best bid price at the time, which was $78.27.
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Cernel
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by Cernel »

I am considering a TLH move but I would like to keep my asset allocation in tack so what I am considering is to sell my VEU (FTSE All World ex-US) shares and then purchase VXUS (Total International Stock Index). My concern is that VXUS and VEU are similar enough for this to be considered a Wash Sale. Does anyone know if that is the case? Also, since these two holdings are ETF's would I be able to purchase the VXUS shares with the proceeds from the VEU sale immediately after the sale or do I have to wait til the settlement date when the money shows up in my sweep account?
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SpringMan
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Re: anyone TLH-ing out of international stocks yet?

Post by SpringMan »

Cernel wrote:I am considering a TLH move but I would like to keep my asset allocation in tack so what I am considering is to sell my VEU (FTSE All World ex-US) shares and then purchase VXUS (Total International Stock Index). My concern is that VXUS and VEU are similar enough for this to be considered a Wash Sale. Does anyone know if that is the case? Also, since these two holdings are ETF's would I be able to purchase the VXUS shares with the proceeds from the VEU sale immediately after the sale or do I have to wait til the settlement date when the money shows up in my sweep account?
They are different enough to rule out a wash sale. You can purchase an ETF immediately with the proceeds from the sale of an ETF. Since you are restricted to buying integer share numbers, there will be a small cash remainder in your account.
Best Wishes, SpringMan
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