Keeping cash on person

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jaj2276
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Keeping cash on person

Post by jaj2276 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:23 pm

Having just finished The Big Short and being a regular reader of http://www.zerohedge.com, I'm getting "nervous" about short-term events. My current target asset allocation includes 5% cash. Has anyone gone so far as to keep your cash (or at least a significant portion of it) outside of a bank-like account? I know accounts at FDIC-insured institutions are insured but I'm concerned that there might come an event that might throw that into question (or at least prevent easy immediate access to that cash).

If you have, do you keep it in a fire-proof safe? Anything to guard against flood? I'm not too worried about robbery as I don't live a very conspicuous lifestyle. However it would be quite unfortunate to have a large sum of money either burn up or float away.

I'm also wondering how many bogleheads have actually started to do something like this and thinking I'm being just a tad paranoid.

jebmke
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by jebmke » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:39 pm

I keep an emergency $20 bill and a 20-euro bill folded and tucked in between my health insurance card and my off-airport frequent parking card. I figure one of those bills will be enough to pay for a taxi to the nearest ATM.
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chaz
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by chaz » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:46 pm

jaj2276, keep a good safe at home.
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investor
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by investor » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:51 pm

I keep cash at home. Plenty of small denomination bills... Bank pays nothing so it does not matter if some is kept at home. This is money that is going to be spent anyway. Pension and SS income.

When we finally have the big earthquake then cash will be king till the ATM's, cash registrars, etc begin working again. Oh, Yes, I live in California. That other place ,besides Oklahoma, that has these huge earthquakes...

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Johm221122
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Johm221122 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:56 pm

investor wrote:I keep cash at home. Plenty of small denomination bills... Bank pays nothing so it does not matter if some is kept at home. This is money that is going to be spent anyway. Pension and SS income.

When we finally have the big earthquake then cash will be king till the ATM's, cash registrars, etc begin working again. Oh, Yes, I live in California. That other place ,besides Oklahoma, that has these huge earthquakes...

investor
To each his own but,I don't think it's worth the chance,people have been killed for less.why not keep savings bonds instead

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investor.saver1
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by investor.saver1 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:02 pm

and thinking I'm being just a tad paranoid.
Maybe more than a tad.

:confused Ponder this for a second....assume that doomsday arrives. What exactly would you expect to be able to buy with your pocket full of US dollars?

:idea: Instead of focusing on what might possibly maybe happen, how about doing this? Tune out all the noise on the computer and TV (just pull the plugs). Make certain you have your investments properly invested (the Boglehead Way). Then go fishin!
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DiscoBunny1979
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by DiscoBunny1979 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:04 pm

I keep some cash in a safe at the house. But one must remember that "cash" is not really cash. What we have in the United States are Federal Reserve Notes. Notes are not cash. They are IOUs. Therefore, while I keep cash at the house, the original intention was that the "cash" was for emergencies when there is a failure in the system or weather emergency. But if the world goes crazy, I'm not too sure whether these cash "NOTES" are going to be worth anything if the US Government isn't around to back them up in a world gone mad. So, my cash is really for back-up in the event of a non-catastrophic event and to pay for things that might require cash and I don't want to go to the bank ATM.

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Steelersfan
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Steelersfan » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:18 pm

I keep between $50 and $100 in my pocket and have about 50 Euros left over from my last trip to Europe.

That's a prudent level of protection, IMHO.

stan1
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by stan1 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:20 pm

So if the world goes crazy, is the idea to keep a bunch of fractional ounces of gold at home?
Sell off a gold chain by the link?
Just curious. I don't think there's much that can be done about that situation.

I do agree keeping $1000 of small denomination bills around is a good idea for weather-related disasters and other acts of God.
But I'm not going to risk my life protecting it.

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Toons
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Toons » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:29 pm

Just checked my "wallet balance" 143.00,,,,,plus 3.58 cents in junk drawer :D :D
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jaj2276
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by jaj2276 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:36 pm

Right, a true dislocation event will likely make even "cash" less valuable. However I would argue that might also apply to gold. In a dislocation event, a potato (or the ability to grow a potato) and a gun would likely be even more valuable than gold. The natural disasters I hadn't even thought of even though I do live in an area prone to hurricanes, so if nothing else I need to keep cash for those types of events.

I'm surprised that the few people who do keep cash keep such small amounts (even $1000). I'm more worried about bookkeeping and the ability for someone/something to basically say that I have no money than the value of the money (because in both cases, I'm screwed). If I keep the money myself, then obviously I incur the risk of keeping tabs on it but I won't just suddenly say "... the money no longer belongs to me."

Somewhat slightly off topic, but does anyone know how, if you do keep largish sums of cash at home, whether that cash is covered under homeowners insurance? For just a standard event (natural disaster, robbery, etc.), how do you prove to the insurance company that you had any amount of cash?
Last edited by jaj2276 on Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

awval999
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by awval999 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:39 pm

Nothing wrong with a hundo at home next to the revolver.

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Opponent Process
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Opponent Process » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:43 pm

I have a burlap sack of junk silver coins in preparation for Bond Armageddon.
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momar
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by momar » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:47 pm

jaj2276 wrote:Right, a true dislocation event will likely make even "cash" less valuable. However I would argue that might also apply to gold. In a dislocation event, a potato (or the ability to grow a potato) and a gun.
Good luck cooking that potato.

I keep plenty of canned beans on hand. Both for making chili, but also in case of a disaster.
"Index funds have a place in your portfolio, but you'll never beat the index with them." - Words of wisdom from a Fidelity rep

jaj2276
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by jaj2276 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:54 pm

momar wrote:
jaj2276 wrote:Right, a true dislocation event will likely make even "cash" less valuable. However I would argue that might also apply to gold. In a dislocation event, a potato (or the ability to grow a potato) and a gun.
Good luck cooking that potato.

I keep plenty of canned beans on hand. Both for making chili, but also in case of a disaster.
Except I don't need to cook a potato to eat it.

Enjoy eating your cold chili (if I can't cook, you can't cook) and good luck acquiring more chili once yours runs out. ;)

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SSSS
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by SSSS » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:41 pm

jaj2276 wrote:
momar wrote:
jaj2276 wrote:Right, a true dislocation event will likely make even "cash" less valuable. However I would argue that might also apply to gold. In a dislocation event, a potato (or the ability to grow a potato) and a gun.
Good luck cooking that potato.

I keep plenty of canned beans on hand. Both for making chili, but also in case of a disaster.
Except I don't need to cook a potato to eat it.

Enjoy eating your cold chili (if I can't cook, you can't cook) and good luck acquiring more chili once yours runs out. ;)
Cold chili is actually pretty good.

Cold potatoes are not so good, unless they're cold french fries, which are okay.

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momar
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by momar » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:49 pm

jaj2276 wrote:
momar wrote:
jaj2276 wrote:Right, a true dislocation event will likely make even "cash" less valuable. However I would argue that might also apply to gold. In a dislocation event, a potato (or the ability to grow a potato) and a gun.
Good luck cooking that potato.

I keep plenty of canned beans on hand. Both for making chili, but also in case of a disaster.
Except I don't need to cook a potato to eat it.

Enjoy eating your cold chili (if I can't cook, you can't cook) and good luck acquiring more chili once yours runs out. ;)
Nah, I mean I would just eat the beans straight out of the can.

I wasn't even aware you could eat a potato raw. Sounds awful.
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bob90245
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by bob90245 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:31 pm

A handful of $20's can last at least a week. It would indeed be a shocking development if business stopped accepting plastic.
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by norookie » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:53 pm

:mrgreen: I like compiled change in seats :mrgreen:
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The Swede
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by The Swede » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:00 pm

It's not a bad idea to keep some cash at hand. In 2003 there was a big power outage on the east coast. Some areas were without power for over a week.
In NYC the place went into "cash is king" mode for a day and a half. ATM's weren't working. Stores started taking cash only. By chance I had more
cash on me than usual and it came in handy when we bought food and beverages. Walking around in the local grocery store with a flash light was
interesting.

For short-term emergencies having at least some cash in your wallet and a bit more at home is a pretty good idea I think.

milestogo
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by milestogo » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:51 pm

Long power outage few years ago due to wind storm. If you needed ice/propane there were lots of places only taking cash. FWIW!

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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Atilla » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:57 pm

I keep $1,000 at home in hundreds, fifties and some rolls of dollar coins. My wife has a few hundred as well - all in a little fire resistant safe along with our tax records.

Four firearms of various types and a few hundred rounds - plus my hunting skills - takes care of the zombie apocolypse scenario where "cash" is no good if you're crazy enough to worry about that kind of stuff. :lol: I could walk outside, bag a few squirrels and have a stew bubbling inside of a couple hours.
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livesoft
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by livesoft » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:17 pm

Since I can't use cash as fish bait, I don't have any on hand.

As for a power outage for a week or so, can't you folks go a week without spending any money? Why would you need any cash if power was off?

In case of extended armageddon, I suppose I would go fishing at any of the ponds within walking distance of my house. Or I'd be making squirrel gumbo.
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Mudpuppy » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:34 pm

As long as my house is still standing after a short-term emergency (power outage, weather, etc), then I have enough supplies on hand to last me a week. That's something that's been ingrained on me in CA as part of earthquake preparedness. I do keep a small amount of cash on hand, but would much rather keep a rotating supply of food in the pantry than hope that a store was open for business during an event that affects their ability to accept plastic.

investor
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by investor » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:47 pm

Johm221122 wrote:
investor wrote:I keep cash at home. Plenty of small denomination bills... Bank pays nothing so it does not matter if some is kept at home. This is money that is going to be spent anyway. Pension and SS income.

When we finally have the big earthquake then cash will be king till the ATM's, cash registrars, etc begin working again. Oh, Yes, I live in California. That other place ,besides Oklahoma, that has these huge earthquakes...

investor
To each his own but,I don't think it's worth the chance,people have been killed for less.why not keep savings bonds instead

_________________

What good would savings bonds do if the Bank computers are not working ?. I was talking about earthquake preparedness in addition the food and such. Talking about a few days here unless we are at ground zero....

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greg24
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by greg24 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:34 pm

momar wrote:Nah, I mean I would just eat the beans straight out of the can.

I wasn't even aware you could eat a potato raw. Sounds awful.
If you are unable to cook, the $@#! has REALLY hit the fan. A potato can be turned into more potatoes.

A can of beans does not reproduce.

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Prokofiev
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Prokofiev » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:48 pm

I seem to live in a different world than most here. Friday nite we went to the local bar for a couple drinks - cash only. Then off to the Friday Night Fights boxing down the street - cash only at the door. After, some food at the Cuban restaurant nearby - cash only. The little grocery store down the block? - cash only. My cleaners, maid, poker buddies - yup cash only. Saturday I went to hear music on Frenchman St. Taxi - cash only. Spotted Cat jazz club/bar? - cash only and on and on. I spent over $200 cash in 2 days. I usually average $200/week from the ATM but sometimes more. Having a $20 bill as an emergency fund? Really?
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bob90245
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by bob90245 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:04 pm

Prokofiev wrote:I seem to live in a different world than most here. Friday nite we went to the local bar for a couple drinks - cash only. Then off to the Friday Night Fights boxing down the street - cash only at the door. After, some food at the Cuban restaurant nearby - cash only. The little grocery store down the block? - cash only. My cleaners, maid, poker buddies - yup cash only. Saturday I went to hear music on Frenchman St. Taxi - cash only. Spotted Cat jazz club/bar? - cash only and on and on. I spent over $200 cash in 2 days. I usually average $200/week from the ATM but sometimes more. Having a $20 bill as an emergency fund? Really?
Well, as long as your bar, restaurants, boxing and music venues are all open and you can find a taxi during your emergency, you should fine... :wink:
Ignore the market noise. Keep to your rebalancing schedule whether that is semi-annual, annual or trigger bands.

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momar
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by momar » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:24 pm

greg24 wrote:
momar wrote:Nah, I mean I would just eat the beans straight out of the can.

I wasn't even aware you could eat a potato raw. Sounds awful.
If you are unable to cook, the $@#! has REALLY hit the fan. A potato can be turned into more potatoes.

A can of beans does not reproduce.
I don't know. I've lived in blizzard country, hurricane country, and earthquake country.

I've been without electricity and/or gas and/or water for relatively extended periods.

That's what I'm talking about.
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madbrain
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by madbrain » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:41 pm

I never have more than $200 cash on me. Almost never more than $100. I guess my average wallet balance is $40. Right now $70, and my last ATM withdrawal for $100 was 16 days ago. So it lasts a while. I rarely use cash.

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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Johm221122 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:43 am

investor wrote:
Johm221122 wrote:
investor wrote:I keep cash at home. Plenty of small denomination bills... Bank pays nothing so it does not matter if some is kept at home. This is money that is going to be spent anyway. Pension and SS income.

When we finally have the big earthquake then cash will be king till the ATM's, cash registrars, etc begin working again. Oh, Yes, I live in California. That other place ,besides Oklahoma, that has these huge earthquakes...

investor
To each his own but,I don't think it's worth the chance,people have been killed for less.why not keep savings bonds instead
If power was out more than a couple of days for the entire city I would go out of town for awile to a place with electricy
_________________

What good would savings bonds do if the Bank computers are not working ?. I was talking about earthquake preparedness in addition the food and such. Talking about a few days here unless we are at ground zero....

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prudent
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by prudent » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:50 am

Not that I am expecting any apocalypse, but I like to be somewhat prepared in the event of a week-long area-wide electricity outage. Have some currency and some silver coins buried within walking distance of our home. I try to keep the gas tank no less than half full. I really should have a bigger food stockpile also.

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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by YDNAL » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:08 am

jaj2276 wrote:Having just finished The Big Short and being a regular reader of http://www.zerohedge.com, I'm getting "nervous" about short-term events. My current target asset allocation includes 5% cash. Has anyone gone so far as to keep your cash (or at least a significant portion of it) outside of a bank-like account? I know accounts at FDIC-insured institutions are insured but I'm concerned that there might come an event that might throw that into question (or at least prevent easy immediate access to that cash).
Today I have US $90 in my wallet.
  • Keeping some other amount in my wallet should an "event throw FDIC-insured institutions into question" is not going to be very helpful.
  • Keeping "5% Cash (or at least a significant portion of it)" from an investment portfolio outside the bank, in a jar buried in backyard, seems unreasonable.
My $0.02 (cash, that is!) :)
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by exoilman » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:24 am

New anxiety poll due? :peace

Woodshark
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Woodshark » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:17 pm

For day to day I use a credit card because I want the travel points. ( Sorry Dave Ramsey, I pay it off every month and it works for me) When I need cash I hit an ATM. I also try to keep a couple of hundred in the house just in case. If the weather channel is talking a big time once is a decade storm, I'll pull out another couple of hundred just in case.

Now if we are talking the big Z.A. then I have firearms for defense and hunting. Plus I keep a few bottle of good booze around. If money becomes worthless, you can always trade a bottle of Scotch for almost anything.

Sam I Am
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Sam I Am » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:13 pm

Most days I don't carry enough cash to buy a newspaper. The only exception is when we attend a football game, then I have to pony up $15 to park, and the vendors who work the stands don't take credit. But, even the concession stands take plastic, though for some reason I always am hesitant to use a credit card at a stadium event. I am uneasy probably because there are so many different organizations manning the stands, and I have no idea which ones are worthy of my trust, if any. So, other than a few sporting events, my cash on person is usually zero.

My dad had different habits. He always carried about two weeks worth of cash. He always had a few hundred bucks on his person. Of course he paid cash for about everything, so he needed to carry some, but not that much, IMHO. Still, it worked for him. I was always afraid he would get robbed when he started peeling off $20ties from his stash, but it never happened, thankfully!.

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SimonJester
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by SimonJester » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:48 am

The fed can print as much money as it needs, so FDIC will just be propped up with inflated dollars. So I'm not worried about FDIC issues... Apocalyptic zombies and collapse of the government are great for Hollywood...

Now take the 2003 power outage or Katrina, here is where cash was king. You will need small bills because it sucks to pay $20 for a bottle a water.

Another reason I see to keep cash at home would be for bank errors, hacking / account emptying where it will take your bank a few days to sort things out. So a weeks worth a grocery money might not be a bad thing.

FYI check your home owners policy you might be surprised to find out they only cover "$200 on money, bank notes, negotiable instruments (as defined by statute), bullion, gold other then goldware, silver other then silverware, platinum, coins, medals and numismatic property."

Strange that they will pay $5000 for grave markers ummm I tend to keep those in the cemetery not in my house...
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:15 am

I have $200 in those new-fangled shiny $1 coins the Mint is selling, offers portability and satisfies the small denomination need.
I keep a few hundred in tens and twenties at home - sometimes I just don't feel like running over to an ATM.
My son has over $50 in assorted quarters, nickels, dimes and pennies that potentially could be "borrowed" if really needed.
My wallet on an ordinary day holds a crisp Jackson. I might have to increase the denomiation, a $20 just doesn't go that far these days. :roll:
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by scrabbler1 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:19 am

Unless I am doing errands or going out somewhere where I know I will be spending some money, I carry $20-$40 in cash with me. I very rarely use the plastic so I am mindful of how much cash I have with me.

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FabLab
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by FabLab » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:38 am

Don't think about it much, but I rarely carry more than a few bucks, if that, in my wallet. The other day, while picking up a prescription at the pharmacy, I asked the price and the clerk responded, "71 cents." My reply was that I don't usually carry that kind of money around, and then charged it to my cc :D
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john94549
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by john94549 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:47 am

I usually have $60 - $100 in my wallet and a big (actually, very big) penny jar.

minneapples
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by minneapples » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:21 pm

I have a $100-$200 in $5 and $1 bills, in case I need to fill up the cars and buy some bottled water when the power is down after a storm (no working ATMs or credit card scanners). In the unlikely event that I need any more cash on hand than that, I'm probably screwed anyway, so I'll take my chances and leave it in the bank.

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Jay69
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Jay69 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:04 pm

You all are missing the main point.

Need to have a good $1000 of green backs at home in the case you run into the $3,000 cabinet saw for $800 on your local Craigslist. Do you really want to miss out on that great deal while hunting for cash on a Sunday, cash is still king :sharebeer

I dont take it as far as my father but he had what he called walking around cash of about $500-$1000 on him at all times, this would have been in the 70's and early 80's. I still have the same little fishing boat that he bought in 1983 with that walking around cash! Ah the good old days :wink:
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minneapples
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by minneapples » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:08 pm

Jay69, I think you are missing the point. I am trying to avoid buying every last art deco buffet and tin ceiling panel I come across on craigslist. :lol

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Jay69
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Jay69 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:17 pm

minneapples wrote:Jay69, I think you are missing the point. I am trying to avoid buying every last art deco buffet and tin ceiling panel I come across on craigslist. :lol

I cant decide where to spend more time, Bogleheads or Craigslist!

btw, does minneapples = Minneapolis?
"Out of clutter, find simplicity” Albert Einstein

minneapples
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by minneapples » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:22 pm

Jay69 wrote:btw, does minneapples = Minneapolis?
Yup!

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Jay69
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by Jay69 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:36 pm

minneapples wrote:
Jay69 wrote:btw, does minneapples = Minneapolis?
Yup!

I was born and raised in Mpls and Crystal. Now live on the other side of the river, the poor side that is the Anoka area.
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by MidnightX » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:00 pm

john94549 wrote:I usually have $60 - $100 in my wallet.
I learned the hard way to keep that $60-$100 in my vehicle. That way when you leave your wallet next to your computer, head out the door to work, stop at a gas station to get gas, and then realize you have left your wallet at home, you won't feel quite as stranded. :oops: [Only happened once and I was able to make it back home and then to a gas station without running out of gas.]

I also leave an extra set of keys hidden in my vehicle in case I lose my keys while hiking in the mountains with my dog. That way I can break a window and use the hidden keys. That will save me a lot grief figuring out other alternatives to getting back on the road.

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touchdowntodd
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Re: Keeping cash on person

Post by touchdowntodd » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:46 am

i am not concerned about any apocolyptic issues ..

i rarely if ever have cash, and if i do its a very small amount ($20 bill or so if given a gift or a friend repays a small loan in the cases that i even accept it back) ... and that usually lasts a couple weeks in my wallet..
tryin to do this right... thanks guys

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