Whose portfolio has the lowest expense ratio?

FlyingMoose · Post by **FlyingMoose** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:18 am

Mine is 0.12% according to Vanguard (since I switched into the new Small Value admiral shares). Anyone have a lower one?

xerty24 · Post by **xerty24** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:22 am

At one point I was probably on the list for the highest, although I never actually calculated it.

KyleAAA · Post by **KyleAAA** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:42 am

Mine is 0.31%. I tilt to small-value and EM so it's not surprising mine is higher than the Vanguard average. That FTSE all-world ex-US small cap fund is pretty pricey, too.

hicabob · Post by **hicabob** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:45 am

my 401k is fstvx at .07% - hard to beat.

Sunny Sarkar · Post by **Sunny Sarkar** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:41 pm

hicabob wrote:my 401k is fstvx at .07% - hard to beat.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the 0.06% 500 Index fund Signal shares in the 401k at my new job.

Overall portfolio ER is 11 bps. If only the TIPS fund and the Total Int'l fund were not so expensive at 0.22% and 0.20%, it wouldn't double figures :chuckle:

Bungo · Post by **Bungo** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:51 am

My 401(k) has FXSIX, "Spartan 500 Index - Institutional Class," with 0.05% expense ratio. Unfortunately, that's the only index fund available, and most of the other options are bad.

Default User BR · Post by **Default User BR** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:15 pm

My 401(k) uses separately managed accounts, and has some very nice index selections with low ERs.

Bond Market Index Fund: 0.0680%
S&P 500 Index Fund: 0.0391%
International Index Fund: 0.1175%
Russell 2000 Index Fund: 0.0475%

It used to have some relatively cheap value funds, which while actively managed were closet index funds. Unfortunately they got rid of those.

Most of my money there is in the bond index and the stable-value fund.

Brian

mptfan · Post by **mptfan** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:32 pm

Mine is 8 inches.

tetractys · Post by **tetractys** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:39 pm

People in the US government TSP have very low expense ratios. If I remember correctly, they are something like .02%. -- Tet

tludwig23 · Post by **tludwig23** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:47 pm

The bond portion of my portfolio is 0.00%.

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:03 pm

Vanguard portfolio is at 15 bps. Will be 11 once I have executed all my NSO's and can lose the Midcap and Smallcap index funds I use to balance my company shares (former employer is large value).

am · Post by am » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:23 pm

What is the lowest a retail investor can get? .06 by owning only s&p 500 index?

Noobvestor · Post by **Noobvestor** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:44 pm

To be fair, this doesn't factor in the front-end fee on my EM and Ex-US Small funds, albeit small as 'loads' go.

tsturbo · Post by **tsturbo** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:55 pm

Here is mine
0.09%

NightOwl · Post by **NightOwl** » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:31 pm

No one's going to beat somebody who's 100% in the TSP. From the Wiki:

TSP funds are operated with extremely low expense ratios, currently at 1.8 basis points (0.018% expense ratio). Vanguard, which has the lowest expense ratios available to regular investors, typically has expenses 10 times higher.

Link: http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan

NightOwl

kikie · Post by **kikie** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:19 am

shouldn't it be a weighted average ?

i've 30% international stock, though it's all admiral , it's the only thing higher

also, do you own 100% funds, or what % outside funds

i bet those with institutional 401k are the minimum, but then those may be the people who only have 401k's and little in taxable accounts, therefore comparing apples to oranges.

etc .......

tludwig23 · Post by **tludwig23** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:54 am

NightOwl wrote:No one's going to beat somebody who's 100% in the TSP. From the Wiki:

TSP funds are operated with extremely low expense ratios, currently at 1.8 basis points (0.018% expense ratio). Vanguard, which has the lowest expense ratios available to regular investors, typically has expenses 10 times higher.
Link: http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan

NightOwl

That's pretty low, but one could buy individual stocks and treasury bonds instead of mutual funds, and pay no ongoing E/R. The downsides of doing this for this stocks outweigh Vanguard's low E/R index funds for me, but I've been buying only original issue Treasury and TIPS bonds, held to maturity, which come with no fees whatsoever.

Opponent Process · Post by **Opponent Process** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:25 am

below some number (0.3, 0.2?) it doesn't matter. the fluctuations in index management, turnover and other costs not reflected in ER, and performance of individual components within your selected portfolio will make a much larger difference in returns than the stated ER. this is something you learn in physics lab, to understand how to identify the major contributory sources of error (lost return in this case).

low expenses are great, but it's a very common Boglehead myth that lower ER necessarily corresponds to higher returns. you get diminishing returns for this effect as you go lower in ER. the question is where the line is drawn where you no longer get a reliable benefit.

another example of this is that Vanguard has demonstrated superior index fund management compared to other companies. so saving a basis point or two in stated ER at another fund shop may not be worth it. Vanguard also reliably lowers ERs within individual funds, which is more of a direct payoff in terms of enhanced returns for shareholders in that fund.

KyleAAA · Post by **KyleAAA** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:31 am

NightOwl wrote:No one's going to beat somebody who's 100% in the TSP. From the Wiki:

TSP funds are operated with extremely low expense ratios, currently at 1.8 basis points (0.018% expense ratio). Vanguard, which has the lowest expense ratios available to regular investors, typically has expenses 10 times higher.
Link: http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan

NightOwl

As well as the only uniquely free lunch in investing that I'm aware of:

http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/G_Fund

Free lunch for TSP participants, that is. Not a free lunch to us taxpayers who subsidize it.

SamB · Post by **SamB** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:36 am

10 basis points overall, but that includes a substantial portion in the Federal TSP. The Vanguard component is 15 basis points.

Sam

Default User BR · Post by **Default User BR** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:38 pm

KyleAAA wrote:As well as the only uniquely free lunch in investing that I'm aware of:

http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/G_Fund

Free lunch for TSP participants, that is. Not a free lunch to us taxpayers who subsidize it.

Ugh, here we go again. No free lunch. Pretty middle of the road in comparison to corporate stable-value funds. In fact, of late it's been WAY under-performing StV funds. Current rate is a paltry 1.625%. This reflects the beat-down of long-term treasury rates. My StV fund (insured by six large guarantors) is at 2.8% for 4thQ.

With G, you have a middling performer in the stable category, but with an excellent insurance provider. How much is that worth? Hard to say. But "free lunch"? I don't see it.

Brian

LH · Post by LH » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:33 pm

roughly .12 ER

14 US SCV
14 US TSM
14 US REIT
8 US TIPS
8 US AGG bond
14 EUROPE
14 JAPAN/"australaasia"
14 Emerging

maxinout · Post by **maxinout** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:42 pm

Much higher than some reported here.

Probably around 0.6%.

KyleAAA · Post by **KyleAAA** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:50 pm

Default User BR wrote: With G, you have a middling performer in the stable category, but with an excellent insurance provider. How much is that worth? Hard to say. But "free lunch"? I don't see it.

No default risk is a free lunch in my book. Stable value funds are much riskier.

SpringMan · Post by **SpringMan** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:57 pm

.17% currently because I am a fan of Wellesley at .21% and Wellington at .22% which are keepers. We also have Cap Opp and Primecap which will be sold when the 1 year redemption fee goes away. That should lower our overall E.R. a basis point or so.

rob · Post by **rob** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:13 pm

KyleAAA wrote:
Default User BR wrote: With G, you have a middling performer in the stable category, but with an excellent insurance provider. How much is that worth? Hard to say. But "free lunch"? I don't see it.
No default risk is a free lunch in my book. Stable value funds are much riskier.

It's not zero default risk but it's pretty low. As to my corporate stable value fund... I would swap to the G fund in a second even with the 0.75% hit based on that rate mentioned... Mine scares me as I just cannot get any transparency as to what's under it... and I suspect it's my own company given they are in the financial business and eat your own cooking e.t.c. I still use it but I would prefer not to :-/

I have not calculated recently but it's under 20 points... helped a lot by a 500idx that I pay 5 points for

golfallday · Post by **golfallday** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:54 pm

The 2 funds I use in my 457 plan are:

VIIIX .02% ER
VBTIX .07% ER

In my IRA with Vanguard I use VTIAX .20% ER.

ruralavalon · Post by **ruralavalon** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:50 pm

Weighted average < 0.09% overall, if treasuries are included at 0.00%.
Weighted average 0.14% overall, if only mutual funds are included in the calculation.

Sam I Am · Post by **Sam I Am** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:23 pm

Message deleted.

lazyfabs · Post by **lazyfabs** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:27 pm

Portfolio's Average:

0.13% (Retirement)

0.14% (Non-Retirement)

rustymutt · Post by **rustymutt** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:38 pm

KyleAAA wrote:Mine is 0.31%. I tilt to small-value and EM so it's not surprising mine is higher than the Vanguard average. That FTSE all-world ex-US small cap fund is pretty pricey, too.

I also tilt toward small and value and mine is .29