Whose portfolio has the lowest expense ratio?

Have a question about your personal investments? No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here.
Post Reply
Topic Author
FlyingMoose
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:48 pm

Whose portfolio has the lowest expense ratio?

Post by FlyingMoose »

Mine is 0.12% according to Vanguard (since I switched into the new Small Value admiral shares). Anyone have a lower one?
xerty24
Posts: 4827
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 3:43 pm

Post by xerty24 »

At one point I was probably on the list for the highest, although I never actually calculated it.
KyleAAA
Posts: 8760
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:35 pm
Contact:

Post by KyleAAA »

Mine is 0.31%. I tilt to small-value and EM so it's not surprising mine is higher than the Vanguard average. That FTSE all-world ex-US small cap fund is pretty pricey, too.
hicabob
Posts: 3272
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 5:35 pm
Location: cruz

Post by hicabob »

my 401k is fstvx at .07% - hard to beat.
User avatar
Sunny Sarkar
Posts: 2435
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:02 am
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Contact:

Post by Sunny Sarkar »

hicabob wrote:my 401k is fstvx at .07% - hard to beat.
I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the 0.06% 500 Index fund Signal shares in the 401k at my new job.

Overall portfolio ER is 11 bps. If only the TIPS fund and the Total Int'l fund were not so expensive at 0.22% and 0.20%, it wouldn't double figures :chuckle:
"Buy-and-hold, long-term, all-market-index strategies, implemented at rock-bottom cost, are the surest of all routes to the accumulation of wealth" - John C. Bogle
Bungo
Posts: 959
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:28 am

Post by Bungo »

My 401(k) has FXSIX, "Spartan 500 Index - Institutional Class," with 0.05% expense ratio. Unfortunately, that's the only index fund available, and most of the other options are bad.
Default User BR
Posts: 7501
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:32 pm

Post by Default User BR »

My 401(k) uses separately managed accounts, and has some very nice index selections with low ERs.

Bond Market Index Fund: 0.0680%
S&P 500 Index Fund: 0.0391%
International Index Fund: 0.1175%
Russell 2000 Index Fund: 0.0475%

It used to have some relatively cheap value funds, which while actively managed were closet index funds. Unfortunately they got rid of those.

Most of my money there is in the bond index and the stable-value fund.



Brian
mptfan
Posts: 6404
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:58 am

Post by mptfan »

Mine is 8 inches.
User avatar
tetractys
Posts: 4836
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:30 pm
Location: Along the Salish Sea

Post by tetractys »

People in the US government TSP have very low expense ratios. If I remember correctly, they are something like .02%. -- Tet
User avatar
tludwig23
Posts: 1665
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:27 pm
Location: 48deg46"23"N 122deg28'21"W

Post by tludwig23 »

The bond portion of my portfolio is 0.00%.
dickenjb
Posts: 2941
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:11 pm
Location: Philadelphia PA

Post by dickenjb »

Vanguard portfolio is at 15 bps. Will be 11 once I have executed all my NSO's and can lose the Midcap and Smallcap index funds I use to balance my company shares (former employer is large value).
am
Posts: 3727
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:55 am

Post by am »

What is the lowest a retail investor can get? .06 by owning only s&p 500 index?
User avatar
Noobvestor
Posts: 5761
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:09 am

Post by Noobvestor »

Image

To be fair, this doesn't factor in the front-end fee on my EM and Ex-US Small funds, albeit small as 'loads' go.
"In the absence of clarity, diversification is the only logical strategy" -= Larry Swedroe
User avatar
tsturbo
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by tsturbo »

Here is mine
0.09%
   
User avatar
NightOwl
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:08 am
Location: New York, NY

Post by NightOwl »

No one's going to beat somebody who's 100% in the TSP. From the Wiki:
TSP funds are operated with extremely low expense ratios, currently at 1.8 basis points (0.018% expense ratio). Vanguard, which has the lowest expense ratios available to regular investors, typically has expenses 10 times higher.
Link: http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan

NightOwl
"Volatility provokes the constant dread that some investors know more than we do, making us fearful of ignoring such powerful price movements." | Peter Bernstein, "The 60/40 Solution."
kikie
Posts: 339
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:37 pm

Post by kikie »

shouldn't it be a weighted average ?

i've 30% international stock, though it's all admiral , it's the only thing higher

also, do you own 100% funds, or what % outside funds

i bet those with institutional 401k are the minimum, but then those may be the people who only have 401k's and little in taxable accounts, therefore comparing apples to oranges.

etc .......
Those who know do not speak; those who speak do not know.
User avatar
tludwig23
Posts: 1665
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:27 pm
Location: 48deg46"23"N 122deg28'21"W

Post by tludwig23 »

NightOwl wrote:No one's going to beat somebody who's 100% in the TSP. From the Wiki:
TSP funds are operated with extremely low expense ratios, currently at 1.8 basis points (0.018% expense ratio). Vanguard, which has the lowest expense ratios available to regular investors, typically has expenses 10 times higher.
Link: http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan

NightOwl
That's pretty low, but one could buy individual stocks and treasury bonds instead of mutual funds, and pay no ongoing E/R. The downsides of doing this for this stocks outweigh Vanguard's low E/R index funds for me, but I've been buying only original issue Treasury and TIPS bonds, held to maturity, which come with no fees whatsoever.
User avatar
Opponent Process
Posts: 5157
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:19 pm

Post by Opponent Process »

below some number (0.3, 0.2?) it doesn't matter. the fluctuations in index management, turnover and other costs not reflected in ER, and performance of individual components within your selected portfolio will make a much larger difference in returns than the stated ER. this is something you learn in physics lab, to understand how to identify the major contributory sources of error (lost return in this case).

low expenses are great, but it's a very common Boglehead myth that lower ER necessarily corresponds to higher returns. you get diminishing returns for this effect as you go lower in ER. the question is where the line is drawn where you no longer get a reliable benefit.

another example of this is that Vanguard has demonstrated superior index fund management compared to other companies. so saving a basis point or two in stated ER at another fund shop may not be worth it. Vanguard also reliably lowers ERs within individual funds, which is more of a direct payoff in terms of enhanced returns for shareholders in that fund.
30/30/20/20 | US/International/Bonds/TIPS | Average Age=37
KyleAAA
Posts: 8760
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:35 pm
Contact:

Post by KyleAAA »

NightOwl wrote:No one's going to beat somebody who's 100% in the TSP. From the Wiki:
TSP funds are operated with extremely low expense ratios, currently at 1.8 basis points (0.018% expense ratio). Vanguard, which has the lowest expense ratios available to regular investors, typically has expenses 10 times higher.
Link: http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan

NightOwl
As well as the only uniquely free lunch in investing that I'm aware of:

http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/G_Fund

Free lunch for TSP participants, that is. Not a free lunch to us taxpayers who subsidize it.
SamB
Posts: 823
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:17 pm

Post by SamB »

10 basis points overall, but that includes a substantial portion in the Federal TSP. The Vanguard component is 15 basis points.

Sam
Default User BR
Posts: 7501
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:32 pm

Post by Default User BR »

KyleAAA wrote:As well as the only uniquely free lunch in investing that I'm aware of:

http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/G_Fund

Free lunch for TSP participants, that is. Not a free lunch to us taxpayers who subsidize it.
Ugh, here we go again. No free lunch. Pretty middle of the road in comparison to corporate stable-value funds. In fact, of late it's been WAY under-performing StV funds. Current rate is a paltry 1.625%. This reflects the beat-down of long-term treasury rates. My StV fund (insured by six large guarantors) is at 2.8% for 4thQ.

With G, you have a middling performer in the stable category, but with an excellent insurance provider. How much is that worth? Hard to say. But "free lunch"? I don't see it.




Brian
User avatar
LH
Posts: 5490
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:54 am

Post by LH »

roughly .12 ER

14 US SCV
14 US TSM
14 US REIT
8 US TIPS
8 US AGG bond
14 EUROPE
14 JAPAN/"australaasia"
14 Emerging
maxinout
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:03 pm

Post by maxinout »

Much higher than some reported here.

Probably around 0.6%.
KyleAAA
Posts: 8760
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:35 pm
Contact:

Post by KyleAAA »

Default User BR wrote: With G, you have a middling performer in the stable category, but with an excellent insurance provider. How much is that worth? Hard to say. But "free lunch"? I don't see it.
No default risk is a free lunch in my book. Stable value funds are much riskier.
User avatar
SpringMan
Posts: 5422
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:32 am
Location: Michigan

Post by SpringMan »

.17% currently because I am a fan of Wellesley at .21% and Wellington at .22% which are keepers. We also have Cap Opp and Primecap which will be sold when the 1 year redemption fee goes away. That should lower our overall E.R. a basis point or so.
Best Wishes, SpringMan
User avatar
rob
Posts: 3509
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:49 pm
Location: Here

Post by rob »

KyleAAA wrote:
Default User BR wrote: With G, you have a middling performer in the stable category, but with an excellent insurance provider. How much is that worth? Hard to say. But "free lunch"? I don't see it.
No default risk is a free lunch in my book. Stable value funds are much riskier.
It's not zero default risk but it's pretty low. As to my corporate stable value fund... I would swap to the G fund in a second even with the 0.75% hit based on that rate mentioned... Mine scares me as I just cannot get any transparency as to what's under it... and I suspect it's my own company given they are in the financial business and eat your own cooking e.t.c. I still use it but I would prefer not to :-/

I have not calculated recently but it's under 20 points... helped a lot by a 500idx that I pay 5 points for :-)
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
golfallday
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:43 am
Location: College Point, NY

Post by golfallday »

The 2 funds I use in my 457 plan are:

VIIIX .02% ER
VBTIX .07% ER

In my IRA with Vanguard I use VTIAX .20% ER.
User avatar
ruralavalon
Posts: 20610
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:29 am
Location: Illinois

Post by ruralavalon »

Weighted average < 0.09% overall, if treasuries are included at 0.00%.
Weighted average 0.14% overall, if only mutual funds are included in the calculation.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started
Sam I Am
Posts: 2062
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:58 pm

Post by Sam I Am »

Message deleted.
Last edited by Sam I Am on Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
lazyfabs
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:22 am

Post by lazyfabs »

Portfolio's Average:

0.13% (Retirement)

0.14% (Non-Retirement)
rustymutt
Posts: 3976
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:03 pm

Post by rustymutt »

KyleAAA wrote:Mine is 0.31%. I tilt to small-value and EM so it's not surprising mine is higher than the Vanguard average. That FTSE all-world ex-US small cap fund is pretty pricey, too.
I also tilt toward small and value and mine is .29
Even educators need education. And some can be hard headed to the point of needing time out.
Post Reply